hellogoodbye

This is kind of a dumb question but I am used to changing my oil at 3K miles since it is the "recommendation" of most experts. I have other people telling me I should change around 5K, but Acura says oil changes occur at around 15% displayed on the mfd or around 6-7k. I only use Honda's 5W-20 for my car but I just wanted to know what everyone else does or what would be better for the car.

Thanks!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Follow what your MID says. Don't do it before 15%. You'll be absolutely fine.

hellogoodbye

Sounds good. Thanks princelybug

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

You're welcome. Just to maybe give you some peace-of-mind...I average an oil change about every 6,200 miles.

JwongTLS

wow u dont drive hard huh?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Well, it's my DD. That's with both city/highway driving, and I take the car to the track occasionally. I think I drive harder than average?

JwongTLS

I figured if u drive hard u would probably want to change your oil sooner. Shouldn't u change your oil like every 4-5k miles then?

I dont drive too hard and I drive mostly in the city but get on the highway a bit on the way to school.. and I do a oil change every 3500-4k miles

gotta to take care of the motor right?

SouthernBoy

I change my '04 manual oil every 4000 miles, when approximately 30% is showing on the MID, and my '05 every 5000 miles when the MID shows around 40%. The MID difference is where and under what conditions my two TL's are driven (the '04 is for my use and the '05 is for my wife's). I just find it much easier to use mileage as a detemining factor. Besides, oil changes are not expensive when you do them yourself.

As for oil and filter, I use Mobil 1 5W/20 with a Mobil M1-104 filter.

LoveMyTL-S

I follow the MID (not a hard driver) and change mine at around 7.5k miles. I'm using Mobile 1 0w20 with the M1-110 filter.

Jiggy2dmax

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=SouthernBoy;11114272]I change my '04 manual oil every 4000 miles, when approximately 30% is showing on the MID, and my '05 every 5000 miles when the MID shows around 40%. The MID difference is where and under what conditions my two TL's are driven (the '04 is for my use and the '05 is for my wife's). I just find it much easier to use mileage as a detemining factor. Besides, oil changes are not expensive when you do them yourself.

As for oil and filter, I use Mobil 1 5W/20 with a Mobil M1-104 filter.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what I do

SouthernBoy

[QUOTE=Jiggy2dmax;11115598]Yep. You know, I could just go with the MID, but I find it so much simpler to use a mileage criteria for my oil changes. I record everything in notebooks I keep in each car (my pickup truck, too). It just makes it easier for other maintenance intervals for me.. just a habit, I suppose.

Majofo

The mid is pretty good at estimating oil wear.. to the OP -> never buy a Fram filter, stick with M1, K&N or RP filters (same mfg I believe). Use a good synthetic like M1-EP or RP, Amsoil or Redline if you can get your hands on it.. it can be pricey though (~$10 qt). I just changed my oil last weekend and I had about 5k miles since my last change. I could definitely tell a difference (much smoother all around), changed from M1-EP & Honda filter to RP & RP filter.. I think if you do an extended interval like 5-6k or even 7k.. you should definitely change your filter between fills.

I hate cars

Driving style makes a huge difference on the amount of time the MID tells you to change. When I did 99% freeway miles it would take me to 10K. Now that I'm putting miles on 3 miles a day I'm at roughly 3,000 and I'm already at 20%.

Granted, I've never taken this car all the way to 10K, I changed at 5K and didn't reset the MID to see just how far it was going to allow.

The Honda branded oil is nothing special. If you want to follow the MID, a quality synthetic is not a bad idea. You will have a ton of headroom following the MID on synthetic since it's calibrated for dino.

Amsoil (ACD, SSO), Mobil One (especially their 0w-40), and Redline are awesome oils. I've run Amsoil synthetic straight 30wt for 90% of the car's life. I've got some Redline 10w-30 (it's actually a straight 30wt) on order because the car is going to Willow Springs soon.

Redline offers the highest HT/HS for a given viscosity of any oil out there. Even their 5w-20 has a higher HT/HS than most 30wts. This is the only 20wt I would put in my TL in my hot climate. HT/HS has been shown to have a direct effect on wear, much more so than 100c viscosity.

FWIW, Mobil One 5w-30 "synthetic" is highly suspected of being a GIII with no GIV or V.

I hate cars

I forgot, for the best filtration (filters) and best flow, Amsoil EAO (EAO 20) and Royal Purple offer a full synthetic media for superior filtration and flow. Mobil One offers a semi-synthetic media and K&N is a traditional cellulose but offers very good flow.

SCS15

iTrader: (3)

I wanted to go to a thicker oil to see if it helps to reduce some pinging. Is there any problems with going with a thicker synthetic?

I hate cars

It won't hurt a thing. It will help cushion the bearings against the pinging. However, it likely won't reduce the pinging. If you go with a 30 or 40wt, you're better off using a synthetic. At normal starting temps, a synthetic 30wt will likely be thinner than a 5w-20 dino.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Best to determine why the car is pinging and correct that issue. Changing to a heavier weight oil isn't the answer.

SCS15

iTrader: (3)

As of now I know I need a valve adjustment as I have some valve chatter until the car has been driven for about 10 min then it goes away. I dont think the oil will help that but I heard someone say to try using a thicker oil.

TL Peak N

I have 97k on an 04', mainly highway miles. I change the oil when the MID says service, about 15%. The oil seems dark in color at that time. I was told by serveral Acura mechanics that this color and oil mileage change, 7k miles, was normal and it's fine for our engines. I was using Valoline with a classic filter and I'm now using Castro GTX 5w20 with a Puralator one filter inwhich I've always liked and I'm now doing my own changes. I'm thinking about switching to a fully synthetic oil, Royal Purple, Mobile 1, Castro. My concern with switching to synthetics, is that it's a cleaner oil and it may remove some of the carbon buildups in the engine and start leakage. Any thoughts about now switching oils, filters or possible leakage regarding the mileage or care of this engine?

hellogoodbye

wow thanks for all the great info everyone. yeah acura told me oil changes average around 6-7k. they said wait till it gets to 15%. all my miles are from la traffic. as of right now i've gone 5k and the mfd has me at 30%. is there really a big advantage from switching to synthetic oil vs regular oil? it seems like it would be better for me to switch if i change my oil around 7k though.

1fsthatch

i usually go about 4k on each oil change and have always used a honda filter and mobil sun 5w-20 the tl has 34k on it now

warren4066

mines auto and right now the mid is 70% and very close to 2k miles so i'm guessing i should do another oil change right before winter season

I hate cars

Synthetic's strong points are extreme cold and extreme heat. It will go longer without oxidizing and the add packs are usually of a higher quality. They can be made with less VIIs so they *usually* hold up to abuse better. Although I've seen dino outperform synthetic in my GN through teardowns with my super short OCI of 1,000 miles.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Hey, this is an oil thread. It can't end with just 23 replies!!!!

surlynkid

iTrader: (1)

okay - i use mobil 1 5W-20 and an OEM honda filter. if i wanted to beef up my filtration, i would go with something along the lines of a a canton-mecca setup. since it never really gets that cold here, i could easily get away with something thicker than 5W-20, but i don't. i change it about every 6-7K, but it does not get hard use.

I hate cars

LOL. Thin oil is the devil. Thick is better. Everyone is an idiot.

pbcmedia

damn i feel bad for using 5-20 now... but am i really wrong for using a fram filter... whats the difference??? and im asking because i really dont know, not being a smart ass & i have roughly 93k on my car mostly hway miles i do a lot of long distance driving...

Majofo

By the length of your post and the amount of surliness in it.. I'd say you're getting old.. but Tom's responses are still long.. so I guess I'm wrong.. lol.

I hate cars

The will to argue/live is slowly going out of me lol.

I hate cars

That was total sarcasm. A 20wt will do just fine.

I do believe in running the correct viscosity for the climate. A 15 degree change in oil temps is roughly the equivilent of going up or down a grade. If you run the car hard or live in a very hot climate, run a good 30wt and at full temp it will be the same viscosity as a 20wt that's not being run hard and heated up.

Simply put, my 10w-30 is as thin in the 105 degree summers here as a 5w-20 in the cooler climates.

I have some Redline 10w-30 and 15w-40 on the way for the TL. Not sure which one I'm going to run yet.

Keep in mind guys, the 5w rating is flow at -35 degrees. It doesn't mean a whole lot for normal startup temps. For instance a 0w-30 will likely be thicker than a 5w-20 on an 70 degree summer cold start but thinner in artic conditions.

07typeS

I like the Redline. I have used it in all the running gear and motor. Its just freaking expensive at around $10/qt. Here is another article I found. Grab a bite to eat and something to drink.





Amsoil vs. Redline vs. Mobil 1 vs.????

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There has been a lot of talk about oils (gear oils, tranny oil, engine oil etc.) but in reading all the posts on the subject I couldnt determine what was advertising hype and what were good facts. (Amsoil vs. Redline vs. Mobil 1 vs. Castrol vs. Valvoline vs. etc...). Having said that I thought there are probably people out there who are just as confused as I am, so I thought I would post what I thought was an unbiased article (in plain and simple English) with comparative Data. I am not promoting any one particular brand. NOTICE THAT THE DATA DOES NOT SHOW THAT AMSOIL IS NO.1 (IT JUST COMES FIRST IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER!!!!!)

ARTICLE:
Choosing the best motor oil is a topic that comes up frequently in discussions between motoheads, whether they are talking about motorcycles or cars. The following article is intended to help you make a choice based on more than the advertising hype.
Oil companies provide data on their oils most often referred to as "typical inspection data". This is an average of the actual physical and a few common chemical properties of their oils. This information is available to the public through their distributors or by writing or calling the company directly. I have compiled a list of the most popular, premium oils so that a ready comparison can be made. If your favorite oil is not on the list get the data from the distributor and use what I have as a data base.

This article is going to look at six of the most important properties of a motor oil readily available to the public: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc.

Viscosity is a measure of the "flowability" of an oil. More specifically, it is the property of an oil to develop and maintain a certain amount of shearing stress dependent on flow, and then to offer continued resistance to flow. Thicker oils generally have a higher viscosity, and thinner oils a lower viscosity. This is the most important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity can shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.

The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter use.

The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is also shown.

__________________________________________________ _____________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| __________________________________________________ ______ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|___________________ _____| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
__________________________________________________ ____________
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C


Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.

Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.

Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.

Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.

Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.

% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with a low ash content.

% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling.

The Data:
Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available

Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc

20W-50
AMSOIL 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12

20W-40
Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 ---

15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---

5W-50
Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10 .095 % Phosphor
Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- ---
Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- ---

5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 ---

15W-40
AMSOIL 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13

10W-30
AMSOIL 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- ---
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 ---
Red Line 139 475 -40 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12

5W-30
AMSOIL 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
Chevron Supreme Synt. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- ---
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 ---
Red Line 151 455 -49 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12

All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are "good enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake.

The synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justified in your application.

The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers (typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000 miles) are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics.

Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the effect of two additives together is greater than the effect of each acting separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this balance and prevent the oil from performing to specification.

The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining what makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type, quality, and quantity of additives used are very important. The given data combined with the manufacturer's claims, your personal experience, and the reputation of the oil among others who use it should help you make an informed choice.

Porkipine

iTrader: (1)

that's a pretty good read. I head RP and amsoil are really good oil to use and are fully synthetic.
I actually do my oil change every 7-8k miles. I use amsoil 0W-30 and their EAO13 filter.

I hate cars

Nice article but I believe it was written in the early '90s. It mentions the "current SG rating" which I believe was a while ago. We're on SM right now, not to say what the article says isn't good.

I'm glad it talked about the polymers in the VII laden multi weights. Though they have gotten better, I run straight weights to avoid them altogether. The new synthetic base stocks allow this with very little cold flow pentalties with their naturally high VI.

I literally go by HT/HS vs 100c viscosity.

Run the thinnest 100c viscosity that has the HTHS you want. That's just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Redline 5w-20 has a HTHS higher than most 30wts. IMO, this is an excellent oil.

HTHS is a viscosity rating of the oil under high temperature and high sheer. It's heated to 150c and put into a machine (can't remember the name of it) that simulates the shearing forces in an engine bearing. Inside of a bearing, temps and pressures can soar. This causes oil to temporarily lose it's viscosity. A typical 5w-30 can go down to a 5 or 10 weight. A 20w-50 can go to a 20 or 30 weight. HTHS gives a very good indication of how an oil will perform in a bearing under real life circumstances and in my opinion is one of the most important criteria for selecting an oil though many would disagree.

Running a thick oil alone doesn't do a whole lot of good if it has a low HTHS. But generally the HTHS goes up with the thickness of the oil. The Redline 10w-30 (technically a straight 30)I just put in has an HTHS of 3.8 which happens to be the same as Mobil One 0w-40 and higher than many 40wts yet it flows like a good 30wt. In other words you get the 40wt protection and the 30wt flow.

There were several tests done by GM a while back on a 3.8L engine that showed with a 1.5 increase in HTHS, wear was reduced to 1/5 of what it was with the low HTHS. Granted the test started with a very low HTHS 20wt and used something likely in the robust 40wt range.

Overkill, yes, but why settle for second best?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Nothing necessarily wrong with a Fram oil filter. Just like there's nothing wrong with using regular dino oil, and going 6k-8k between oil changes. Synthetic oils and other-than-Fram products may perform better, but it is not absolutely necessary to use them. I never have, and my car runs fine.

RyanCHICL

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, I just bought an 04 TL and I just changed my oil with M1 5w-20 and a PureOne oil filter. Would using Redline oil or RP actually benefit the car? Also, whats your thoughts on the PureOne filters?

I hate cars

Pure Ones are great filters but for about the same price you can get the Amsoil or Royal Purple both of which offer slightly better filtration and will last longer if you decide to do a long interval. Even the orange can of death Frams aren't that bad but they're not something you want to use on an extended OCI.

The Royal Purple filter I have now, just like the Amsoil filter before will get changed every second or third oil change. No need to do it every time.

I don't recommend Royal Purple oil if you plan on running it hard. There are much better oils for less money.

As for the benefts of Redline, they're the same benefits of any quality synthetic a listed few posts above. Redline definately gets the nod for extreme service and extreme heat. There probably isn't a better oil out there for racing. It's a true group V ester and can withstand extreme heat very well. HTHS is very high for it's weight.

RyanCHICL

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info. I do have a little lead foot but I don't track or race so your saying Redline wouldn't be worth the extra money? I also live in Chicago for climate wise.

surlynkid

iTrader: (1)

real filters.................

http://www.cmfilters.com/

I hate cars

Honestly, your TL would live a long life on regular dino 5w-20 and a Fram filter. Just want to say that. If you plan on trading your car at 100,000 miles, shop for the cheapest name brand oil.

With that said, for the "best" protection I highly suggest Redline, and the 5w-20 would do well in your climate. It's overkill big time but over the course of 300,000 miles, it should show it's superiority. The ester base oil will keep the engine spotless, never should you need to do an engine cleaning treatment.

Keep in mind if the car should ever overheat for some reason, you have that extra safety cushion.


I'm leaving out so much info for the sake of not rambling on like I usually do but hopefully this helps.

I should mention, one of the best bang for the buck oils is Pennzoil Platinum.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

^ What about Torco?