Catalytic Converter failed
11-20-2005, 10:45 AM
#1
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Catalytic Converter failed
Hello All,
I'm fairly new to this forum but have enjoyed reading recent thread discussions and decided to share some of my experiences with my 04 TL. My purchase of a 3rd generation TL came from one of the very first batches produced and although I enjoy the vehicle tremendously, I have experienced many of the issues I've read in this forum including tire issues, repainting bumper covers, a few squeaks and rattles, and premature aging of interior components. Being a huge car fanatic , I still feel the TL is one of the most refined, performance oriented vehicles in its class. I've compared them to many other vehicles first hand including the BMW 3 series, G35 manual sedan 05 (my carpool vehicle), Audi A6 4.2 (previous car before TL) and A4, S60R, and my wifes new car the Pontiac GXP.
Now getting to the details of the threat title. A couple months ago I returned home from work, which is approx 50 miles, to only jump back in the car to return some videos. Immediately stepping on the gas I noticed a significant decrease in performance. I initially attributed it to the hot ouside temparture, in the 90's, however driving it further for a few more miles and I knew something seriously was wrong. The engine felt as though it was starting off in second gear, with very little power until the engine revved into its power band where it was less noticeable. The engine light never appeared anytime during this problem.
I drove the car back into my garage, stepped, out and immediately noticed a strong sulfur smell. Instantly I knew there had to be a problem with the converter. I dont wont to drag this note on much further however sharing all my symptoms with the service manager they agreed to test the converters and found one had failed. The car has 2 converters, one primary and secondary. I believe, now its been a couple months now, it was the primary converter that had failed.
The converter was replaced under the factory warranty and now drives like it did before the failure.
Had it not been from my previous experiences with bad converters the service department would have sent me on my way with a recommended fresh tank of gas. It's sad many service technicians, although not all, are not that mechanically inclined. It sometimes takes an adamant owner to force these issues into permanent resolutions.
Brian
I'm fairly new to this forum but have enjoyed reading recent thread discussions and decided to share some of my experiences with my 04 TL. My purchase of a 3rd generation TL came from one of the very first batches produced and although I enjoy the vehicle tremendously, I have experienced many of the issues I've read in this forum including tire issues, repainting bumper covers, a few squeaks and rattles, and premature aging of interior components. Being a huge car fanatic , I still feel the TL is one of the most refined, performance oriented vehicles in its class. I've compared them to many other vehicles first hand including the BMW 3 series, G35 manual sedan 05 (my carpool vehicle), Audi A6 4.2 (previous car before TL) and A4, S60R, and my wifes new car the Pontiac GXP.
Now getting to the details of the threat title. A couple months ago I returned home from work, which is approx 50 miles, to only jump back in the car to return some videos. Immediately stepping on the gas I noticed a significant decrease in performance. I initially attributed it to the hot ouside temparture, in the 90's, however driving it further for a few more miles and I knew something seriously was wrong. The engine felt as though it was starting off in second gear, with very little power until the engine revved into its power band where it was less noticeable. The engine light never appeared anytime during this problem.
I drove the car back into my garage, stepped, out and immediately noticed a strong sulfur smell. Instantly I knew there had to be a problem with the converter. I dont wont to drag this note on much further however sharing all my symptoms with the service manager they agreed to test the converters and found one had failed. The car has 2 converters, one primary and secondary. I believe, now its been a couple months now, it was the primary converter that had failed.
The converter was replaced under the factory warranty and now drives like it did before the failure.
Had it not been from my previous experiences with bad converters the service department would have sent me on my way with a recommended fresh tank of gas. It's sad many service technicians, although not all, are not that mechanically inclined. It sometimes takes an adamant owner to force these issues into permanent resolutions.
Brian
11-20-2005, 12:42 PM
#2
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by brlachance
Hello All,
I'm fairly new to this forum but have enjoyed reading recent thread discussions and decided to share some of my experiences with my 04 TL. My purchase of a 3rd generation TL came from one of the very first batches produced and although I enjoy the vehicle tremendously, I have experienced many of the issues I've read in this forum including tire issues, repainting bumper covers, a few squeaks and rattles, and premature aging of interior components. Being a huge car fanatic , I still feel the TL is one of the most refined, performance oriented vehicles in its class. I've compared them to many other vehicles first hand including the BMW 3 series, G35 manual sedan 05 (my carpool vehicle), Audi A6 4.2 (previous car before TL) and A4, S60R, and my wifes new car the Pontiac GXP.
Now getting to the details of the threat title. A couple months ago I returned home from work, which is approx 50 miles, to only jump back in the car to return some videos. Immediately stepping on the gas I noticed a significant decrease in performance. I initially attributed it to the hot ouside temparture, in the 90's, however driving it further for a few more miles and I knew something seriously was wrong. The engine felt as though it was starting off in second gear, with very little power until the engine revved into its power band where it was less noticeable. The engine light never appeared anytime during this problem.
I drove the car back into my garage, stepped, out and immediately noticed a strong sulfur smell. Instantly I knew there had to be a problem with the converter. I dont wont to drag this note on much further however sharing all my symptoms with the service manager they agreed to test the converters and found one had failed. The car has 2 converters, one primary and secondary. I believe, now its been a couple months now, it was the primary converter that had failed.
The converter was replaced under the factory warranty and now drives like it did before the failure.
Had it not been from my previous experiences with bad converters the service department would have sent me on my way with a recommended fresh tank of gas. It's sad many service technicians, although not all, are not that mechanically inclined. It sometimes takes an adamant owner to force these issues into permanent resolutions.
Brian
I'm fairly new to this forum but have enjoyed reading recent thread discussions and decided to share some of my experiences with my 04 TL. My purchase of a 3rd generation TL came from one of the very first batches produced and although I enjoy the vehicle tremendously, I have experienced many of the issues I've read in this forum including tire issues, repainting bumper covers, a few squeaks and rattles, and premature aging of interior components. Being a huge car fanatic , I still feel the TL is one of the most refined, performance oriented vehicles in its class. I've compared them to many other vehicles first hand including the BMW 3 series, G35 manual sedan 05 (my carpool vehicle), Audi A6 4.2 (previous car before TL) and A4, S60R, and my wifes new car the Pontiac GXP.
Now getting to the details of the threat title. A couple months ago I returned home from work, which is approx 50 miles, to only jump back in the car to return some videos. Immediately stepping on the gas I noticed a significant decrease in performance. I initially attributed it to the hot ouside temparture, in the 90's, however driving it further for a few more miles and I knew something seriously was wrong. The engine felt as though it was starting off in second gear, with very little power until the engine revved into its power band where it was less noticeable. The engine light never appeared anytime during this problem.
I drove the car back into my garage, stepped, out and immediately noticed a strong sulfur smell. Instantly I knew there had to be a problem with the converter. I dont wont to drag this note on much further however sharing all my symptoms with the service manager they agreed to test the converters and found one had failed. The car has 2 converters, one primary and secondary. I believe, now its been a couple months now, it was the primary converter that had failed.
The converter was replaced under the factory warranty and now drives like it did before the failure.
Had it not been from my previous experiences with bad converters the service department would have sent me on my way with a recommended fresh tank of gas. It's sad many service technicians, although not all, are not that mechanically inclined. It sometimes takes an adamant owner to force these issues into permanent resolutions.
Brian
Which one was bad??? front or rear bank or the one below the car.
most dealerships are stuck when it comes to exhaust inspections regarding catalytic converters. if the catalyst hasnt broken apart and it doesnt rattle the only real way to check is to either remove the cat or do a backpressure test. most dealerships will sublet this work to exhaust shops. and yes that is unfortunate about some service techs.
11-20-2005, 09:57 PM
#4
Funny, I thought all cars were mandated by the epa to check the converter
efficiency. You should get a check engine light before the cats are damaged I thought. Two things kill cats, contamination that poisons the catalyst, and meltdown from excessive unburnt fuel. Most owners manuals warn about
running low or out of gas, as the engine goes lean burn, not enough to burn in the engine, and it gets dumped in the cats and burns there, melting them down and plugging up the exhaust. But the ecu should set a code and check engine light which starts flashing if the misfire is enough to cause cat damage.
Very odd that a newer car would melt down the cats.
Most if not all V6 engines have 4 cats and 4 oxy sensors, so each
bank can be checked, and each cat can be checked.
The EPA has added other systems that many people dont know about, like the
evap system test setup. That system tests for gas tank and evap system leaks.
Modern cars are really rolling inspection stations...
Brett
efficiency. You should get a check engine light before the cats are damaged I thought. Two things kill cats, contamination that poisons the catalyst, and meltdown from excessive unburnt fuel. Most owners manuals warn about
running low or out of gas, as the engine goes lean burn, not enough to burn in the engine, and it gets dumped in the cats and burns there, melting them down and plugging up the exhaust. But the ecu should set a code and check engine light which starts flashing if the misfire is enough to cause cat damage.
Very odd that a newer car would melt down the cats.
Most if not all V6 engines have 4 cats and 4 oxy sensors, so each
bank can be checked, and each cat can be checked.
The EPA has added other systems that many people dont know about, like the
evap system test setup. That system tests for gas tank and evap system leaks.
Modern cars are really rolling inspection stations...
Brett
11-20-2005, 10:56 PM
#5
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by Brettg
Funny, I thought all cars were mandated by the epa to check the converter
efficiency. You should get a check engine light before the cats are damaged I thought. Two things kill cats, contamination that poisons the catalyst, and meltdown from excessive unburnt fuel. Most owners manuals warn about
running low or out of gas, as the engine goes lean burn, not enough to burn in the engine, and it gets dumped in the cats and burns there, melting them down and plugging up the exhaust. But the ecu should set a code and check engine light which starts flashing if the misfire is enough to cause cat damage.
Very odd that a newer car would melt down the cats.
Most if not all V6 engines have 4 cats and 4 oxy sensors, so each
bank can be checked, and each cat can be checked.
The EPA has added other systems that many people dont know about, like the
evap system test setup. That system tests for gas tank and evap system leaks.
Modern cars are really rolling inspection stations...
Brett
efficiency. You should get a check engine light before the cats are damaged I thought. Two things kill cats, contamination that poisons the catalyst, and meltdown from excessive unburnt fuel. Most owners manuals warn about
running low or out of gas, as the engine goes lean burn, not enough to burn in the engine, and it gets dumped in the cats and burns there, melting them down and plugging up the exhaust. But the ecu should set a code and check engine light which starts flashing if the misfire is enough to cause cat damage.
Very odd that a newer car would melt down the cats.
Most if not all V6 engines have 4 cats and 4 oxy sensors, so each
bank can be checked, and each cat can be checked.
The EPA has added other systems that many people dont know about, like the
evap system test setup. That system tests for gas tank and evap system leaks.
Modern cars are really rolling inspection stations...
Brett
BRL
did the dealer give you a reason as to why your catalytic converter failed, or was it just apart of the small percentage that go bad from the start?
11-21-2005, 08:24 AM
#6
The pre cats are typicly in the down pipes. Its hard to see one melting and plugging up without a serious enough problem to set a check engine light.
The OBD2 systems are incredibly sensitive to missfires and so on, so you have to wonder what the failure mode is. The only thing I could see happening is the thing not melting, but just falling apart and plugging up the post cat. They have been making cats for a while now, and you would think they would know enough to not have them fall apart.....
I really need to buy a shop manual for the TL, got to know stuff!
Brett
The OBD2 systems are incredibly sensitive to missfires and so on, so you have to wonder what the failure mode is. The only thing I could see happening is the thing not melting, but just falling apart and plugging up the post cat. They have been making cats for a while now, and you would think they would know enough to not have them fall apart.....
I really need to buy a shop manual for the TL, got to know stuff!
Brett
11-21-2005, 11:49 AM
#7
One on the right for me
It could be that there was a problem with the ecu from the beginning and that is what caused the cat to go bad. That is still odd that you didnt get a check engine light (exceptions aside).
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11-23-2005, 09:00 PM
#8
Not a Blowhole
The fuel system should be checked, but it is rare to see an OBD II car where a bad enough fuel or spark map would not kick off a sensor.
You did not mention your fuel buying habits*, and whether you use fuel additives or octane boosters.
Whatever, I think this is a rare circumstance in any modern, closed loop FI system. I saw it a fair amount in the early 1980's, when people had all sort os ideas and tricks trying to get more performance out of those terrible powertrains. I did a lot of testing of e-proms back then, including some work for GM on the early L98's, and found more than one chip that literally did nothing - it had one active instruction - Goback. That put the car into "limp home mode" - fixed sapark advacne of about 25 degrees, very rich. Off idle, the car felt great, and some were fooled by it. The chip also disabled the "Check Engine" light (so there was more than 1 line of code), otherwise the jig would have been up.
Of course, what happened next was overheating of the cats from too much spark advance, engine knocking, and meltdown from the unburned, enriched fuel mixture.
You did not mention your fuel buying habits*, and whether you use fuel additives or octane boosters.
Whatever, I think this is a rare circumstance in any modern, closed loop FI system. I saw it a fair amount in the early 1980's, when people had all sort os ideas and tricks trying to get more performance out of those terrible powertrains. I did a lot of testing of e-proms back then, including some work for GM on the early L98's, and found more than one chip that literally did nothing - it had one active instruction - Goback. That put the car into "limp home mode" - fixed sapark advacne of about 25 degrees, very rich. Off idle, the car felt great, and some were fooled by it. The chip also disabled the "Check Engine" light (so there was more than 1 line of code), otherwise the jig would have been up.
Of course, what happened next was overheating of the cats from too much spark advance, engine knocking, and meltdown from the unburned, enriched fuel mixture.
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