Luqman

Okay. So there are a few details missing between the two events listed in the title of this thread.

I own a 6spd '08 TL Type S and I loved the thing so much I foolishly imported it to Dubai, where I've been living for the past 16 months now.

Honda exists out here but Acura, much like anywhere outside North America, are non existent, unless a dumbass like me grows attached to it and has to ship it here.

The issue arises that no one knows how to fix the car when things go awry. Honda service centers don't know shit (EVEN THOUGH THEY MAKE THE DAMN CAR!) and the corner mom and pops are fucking clueless. I had an issue with over heating that lead me down a long, expensive road that ended with me replacing my radiator first and after continuous issues, the head gasket. All at 45k miles. The best part? It didn't resolve the issue, car still loses coolant from the white plastic bottle and overheats when driven above 78 mph for more than 10 minutes...but that's a rant I spared my fellow AZers with (for the most part, at least).

But this...This, my fellow AZers, THIS takes the cake.

I drive to work and all is good in the world. I leave and my car won't start. I replaced the battery 4 months ago so I didn't think that was it. You can hear the car actually trying to start (the engine churned as it normally would for a second or two before the car breathes to life - no clicking noises or any of that nonsense).

I hitch a ride home and decide to try and jump it with my wife's Pilot the next morning. Figured it was worth a shot. It wasn't. Same outcome. Attempting to push start it didn't work either. I don't know shit about the mechanics of cars and thought that it was the starter or something.

Called my cousin who called a friend who came over with who was supposedly an auto electrician to try and see what the issue was. He fiddled with the car for two hours. Checked all the fuses, removed the plastic black engine cover that reads "3.5 VTEC" (which I must say I've always garnered a lot of visual appeal from) and checked the ignition coils/spark plugs. I replaced all the spark plugs less than 6 months ago too as part of the head gasket overhaul).

He was checking to see if there was any power getting to them or not using some type of light-up screwdriver. When he was all done he said he's done all he can and it was his firm belief that the car wasn't starting because of the key (said that its programming must have magically erased itself leading the car to just churn and not start).

That's when I should have known I was in trouble. I refuted this as it made no sense whatsoever. He then said he replaced one fuse, and the plugs (or ignition coils) weren't getting current and they now are (with his fiddling), and that the car will need to be towed to check its computer.

My cousin shows up at this time and starts talking to the guy and says that we should try taking the battery out, leaving the car sit battery less for a few minutes and try starting it with the car battery that the guy brought along with him.

They do so and as I'm sitting about 10 feet away from them my cousin turns the key and something in the engine explodes. No fire, no smoke, just a deafening sound and a singeing smell that indicated I should start liquidating my kids' college fund immediately.

It blows off the two engine covers on the left-hand side that run along the hood towards the front of the car and tears to the black engine cover that I once found so aesthetically pleasing off, tearing it in numerous places along the way. Had it not been screwed in in the front it could very well been orbiting the earth right now.

I sat there, just speechless. Finger pointing ensued and I tuned it all out for the most part. Thinking about WTF just happened.

I'm getting it towed to Honda tomorrow for some answers (hopefully) but in the meantime I'm wondering if any AZers out has any idea what may have exploded and any idea of how much I should now aim to sell my kidneys for to get this fixed.

Appreciate it.

-Luqman

P.S. the attached pic was taken after the engine cover was pieced back together. I drew red lines to the right and below the crack to show where they run.

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

I remember your coolant story. This fucking blows dude (no pun intended).

I don't have any experience with cars blowing up, but I would have checked the entries to the combustion chambers: spark plugs, head gaskets and valves.

Did you look under the cover to see if there was any obvious damage besides the plastic parts?

Sorry OP.

Luqman

Yeah, the whole coolant thing was another unresolved fiasco that I just gave up writing on before I replaced the head gasket.

To be honest, I didn't check for damage man. I couldn't bring myself to it and it was dark as all hell. I wouldn't know what would and wouldn't be out of place anyways.

Judging by the sound it bellied out and the force with which it blew off and tore the engine covers it's going to be really, really extensive and it may even be time to scrap the car. It has 51k miles on it and I'm just at a loss with how badly things turned out with what was the car I wanted for 4 straight years before I plunged to buy it.

bp_spets

Honestly a picture of the cover isn't really going to help us... it's just a cosmetic cover.

My thought is if the guy was mucking around with the spark plugs, its possible he didn't tighten one of them down enough and the compression of the engine blew the spark plug out.

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

^That's what I was thinking too.

Luqman

So best case scenario replace the spark plug and all is well in the world once again?

I'll see if I can take any meaningful pics tomorrow morning before it gets towed.

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

Not necessarily... If it was the spark plug that blew out, It probably damaged the threads. And a single bad plug/coil wouldn't explain your no-start.

With the information we have, all we can do here is guess. Definitely take some pics tomorrow after taking that cover off. Basically try to get every angle of the engine and heads.

Was any fluid leaking after this happened?

flyromeo3

damn,..i remember the coolant story.

The only thing I can think of is a spark plug must of exploded out of its chamber when starting the car.

Take a pic of the engine without the cover and hopefully we can offer a solution.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

maybe an intake backfire and the top-plate on the manifold blew up into the top cover?

When you say the side covers are you referring to the ones on the driver's or passenger's side?

It'd make more sense if it was the driver's side, since the air intake is over there

I remember the coolant problem too man that sucks

maybe he applied power to an injector with his 'light-up screwdriver' that he probably clipped off to a battery terminal so he could 'inject' battery voltage on points he touches with the tip of his screwdriver or see if a voltage is on something when it lights up, I've seen tools like that.

Maybe an injector sprayed fuel when the intake valve was open and it got enough fumes and fuel into the intake manifold to cause an intake backfire when a spark plug went off, did it turn over before it blew up? If not maybe the plug lit, with the intake valve open and raw fuel in the cylinder causing an intake backfire which is about the only way I could think something like that could happen to that car

Check the air intake, the air box, is it blown into pieces too?

I think that electrician guy is liable here, duno how that one is going to work out in Dubai ugh, what a horrible situation.

I suppose it could've blown out the PCV bung on the intake manifold as well out to the passenger's side, whats it look like with that top cover off?

The injectors are actually switched on by applying a ground to one side though and the positive is constant on the other end while the engine is running.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Sorry for double post, if it was an intake backfire ask the electrician if he tested the injectors while he was troubleshooting, I'd ask anyways or maybe your cousin saw him poking around at something that looks like this, perhaps with that connector disconnected:



If the key was in the ACC/RUN position and he applied a ground to one of the leads on one of the injectors (likely on cylinder #4 its the most easily accessed) or if he applied ground and battery voltage across the injector to see if he would hear it 'click' or 'spray' since the fuel rail is still pressurized it would've sprayed fuel and it would've gotten in a cylinder, maybe with the intake valve open. I don't know how he was testing it, but if it originated from #4 he probably made the injector spray fuel into the cylinder while the car was off.

I'm thinking he tested an injector like this, the engine didn't turn over and the spark plug for that cylinder lit with the intake valve open causing an explosion in the intake tract of the car.

Just a theory but the only plausible thing I can think of. It'll be evident when the top plastic piece is removed if the top plate blew up cracking that plastic part. The tab where it clips in to the top plate looks like it's missing, so I think that goes together with the way the damage appears.

Luqman

I didn't see any fluid leaking out as it was dark as all hell.

What threads?

Pics will be posted shortly, I'll post them as a new reply. Though, I must say, nothing looks out of place. Then again, I don't know my head from my ass under the hood.

Luqman

That would make some sense as I don't see any external damage to the engine.


Passenger's side.


To be honest, I don't know if it turned before it blew up. I was sitting across from them as they fiddled with it. Since there is no external damage that I can see I think this makes sense. Sounds like I may need to sell my daughter to a Nike sweatshop in Bangladesh.

No, they actually appear fine. Pics attached in my last reply/post.

There's no doubt in my mind he's liable. Unfortunately for me, much like my coolant fiasco, there's no f**king accountability out here so I'm going to have to pay out the ass to get this fixed.

To my untrained eyes, it looks fine, but pics once again attached in my last post.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

no pic?

Luqman

Okay. So I was wrong. VERY WRONG. I took a closer look just now when I went out to take a second set of pictures and there is enough visual damage to make my wallet shrink like testicles in cold water.

Using my little knowledge I think you were right, mzilvar. There must have been some type of backfire in the intake manifold as the bottom portion of it blew apart and is gaping enough for me to stick my finger in there.

Luqman

Pics continued...

That piece I've picked up feels and sounds like its made of some type of ceramic-ish material.

Luqman

Pics continued...

Luqman

Considering I know that the intake manifold is done for I can only imagine what kind of damage awaits for me once it has been taken apart.

I don't think I'm going to have it towed to Honda anymore. I was going to do that to try and figure out why it wasn't starting and what the hell exploded, but now that I see where the damage lays I'm thinking about sending it to my old Boss' shop. For those of you who read my previous coolant tribulations, yes, this is that same shop. I cringe at the thought of giving them any more business after they "repaired" my head gasket on one hand, but on the other I know they'll diagnose all the damage for me for free.

I'll have to think about my next step some more before I decide on what to do with the Acura. Guess I'm going to start searching around for a beater to get me from A-B in the interim.

VTEC no more.

Fibonacci

Interesting story. Sounds like you're ready for a 4G though.

bp_spets

Looks like mzilvar's theory is the closest.. fuel somehow ignited in the intake manifold and it cracked.

It might be as simple as replacing the intake manifold.. but you won't know if there's any other damage until you pull that manifold off.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Holy!
the only thing I can contribute is good vibes.
praying that the CarGOds bless you in some sort of way.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Jeez. That is seriously badluqman!

I'm sorry to hear! I hope it's an easy fix.

Majofo

Change OP's SN.. pinging Yumcha

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

Duuuuuuuuude. I hope it doesn't require head work or worse.

Badluqman indeed.

Karma's a bitch, just make sure that bitch is beautiful. I have a feeling you're about to receive something great!

Majofo

I don't take the time to read shit anymore, but after looking at the pics and reading the OP, I think there can be a couple of things that occurred. First of all, good job.

Second.. look how fucking dirty that engine is. At least you're running a stock airbox, but I wouldn't be surprised if the filter is just as dirty.

Third.. look at that glorious intake manifold. You did something I don't think most could mimic, this is epic. Usually an intake backfire goes the path of least resistance.. through the airbox. In this case, It blew your shit apart. There was a shit load of fuel involved. The inside of the manifold looks a little dark but not super out of the ordinary. Definitely run good oil and fuel in the desert. A can of b12 once in a while to clean the injectors. Pull that mother fucker off and make sure the runners are okay. I suspect most of the damage is just the manifold. That's good.

Fourth.. how long ago did you replace the head gaskets and plugs? I have a sneaky suspicion that it wasn't the auto electrician that did anything. It was more than likely an issue introduced since the swap. The fact that your car didn't start makes me believe the air fuel mix was too rich. Possibly stuck injector but I would think that would throw a code. If the injector was stuck open, could have led to fumes collecting when warm. Only part that doesn't fit is the kaboom but this could be as simple as the valves not being in spec. Intake side is a little loose, exhaust side is a little tight. Kachow!

You should be alright OP. If you sell your daughter, I'll stick a cactus up your ass.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Wow that sucks, manifold isn't that bad to replace should order parts from someplace like oemacuraparts.com and use acurazine coupon code at checkout in the comments. I'm guessing you're military over there have an APO address to ship to?

That piece of metal is off the water passage.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Right next to that hole where the chunk of metal came out is where your thermostat is that thing looks rotten its covered in rust and green corrosion and looks like something over there had been leaking for a long time.

I think that's probably your cooling problem right there or at least part of it there are hoses to the throttle body off the passage as well that could be leaking, replace that thermostat and seals when the water passage is done and try to get some Honda type 2 premixed coolant out there maybe you can talk someplace into shipping it maybe even amazon will to an APO if you have one.

Majofo

OP?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

If they couldn't diagnose your coolant problem and that thermostat housing and the bottom of the throttle body are corroded like that I wouldn't give them any of my business especially if they charged to do the head gasket and it still is leaking coolant like that I think its obvious where the leak is now looking at those parts

On mobile opened it up more doesn't look as corroded as I though but rust all over where they seal

Luqman

Bought myself an 4x4. Now the owner of an '08 Grand Cherokee Limited w/ 55k miles on it. I like it but the f**ker is a V8. Luckily gas is cheaper than shit over here so I'm not overly concerned about it. Let's just hope that my transmission doesn't drop in the next 5k mi.

The wife won this battle. In fairness, though, I've had a lot of issues with the TL so it's time to cut my losses and sell it off if/when she's running again.

It got towed away today so I'll have a better idea as to how extensive the damage is by tomorrow.

On a side note, the Jeep forums seem to be designed by Helen Keller cause navigating them is a pain in the ass!

Luqman

In fairness, yes, it is dirty. This was the first time I've taken the plastic garnish off and looked at it myself. I just wish my wife was as dirty as the engine. The filter, on the other hand, was recently replaced and clean.

I wish I could take all the credit for this, but like you said, the previous mechanics may have very well played a supporting roll in all this. Believe it or not, the fuel injectors were all cleaned when the head gasket was replaced. Or, at least, supposedly cleaned.

New spark plugs, head gasket and cleaned fuel injectors 6 months ago. Unrelated to this, but new thermostat and radiator 8 months ago.

I'm not actually going to sell her, so you don't need to take it out of your own ass quite yet, my friend!

Luqman

I'm right there with you, man!

I just hope the JGC treats me better than the TLS did!!

Luqman

I'm not military, but my wife's aunt is coming to visit in a couple weeks. Unbeknownst to her, she'll be carrying half an engine here for me among her luggage!

What's the coupon code man? I had no idea there even was one!!

Luqman

So you think the thermostat is my coolant issue? I replaced it 8 months ago with one I bought from the Honda dealership!

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Maybe not if they replaced it. Just saw the rust down there on the seals and bottom of the throttle body where the coolant runs into it.

The coupon code is acurazine typed into the comments block at checkout it won't reflect until its charged to you by them.

csmeance

In my opinion you had way to many inexperienced people work on your car and in all honesty, they probably messed up quite a bit and are making you pay for it.

I'd honestly get a new motor off ebay, send it to someone in the states for a full overhaul and have in swapped into your car. Your cooling problems were a major sign that something wasn't right and you should have fully fixed it first before driving your car even as a DD.

Majofo

Well good then.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how the hell that chunk of metal blew out of the water passage, how did pressure get so high in the cooling lines to blow it out like that or did something blow down from the manifold into it and make it break like that?

There's no coolant running through the manifold or runners, those lines are all separate and it blew out right by the thermostat, not the EGR.

I can't imagine the water pump being in perfect shape, since that thing blew a huge piece of metal out of the water passage.

The other side of the water passage has a connecting pipe that runs underneath the lower intake runners to the side of the block where the belts are and goes into the block on the rear side of the water pump.

If pressure got that high inside of those lines to break that metal like that I would imagine it could've pushed the water pump away from the block as well.

What've you been running for coolant? Just curious, it almost looks like it's been running on water instead of coolant from the color of the spray on your engine cover and the corrosion on the throttle body and water passage.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

maybe installed it backward?