Jeffers

Car pulls to right. Alignment is good done three times. Changed all tires over and over with new alignments. Lower control arms look good (Honda Tech) Rear wheels spin no prob. Calipers not hung up front or rear.

Still pulls. Has eaten two sets of tires in 4000 miles. Front tires show feathering across the tread. sharp edges one direction. Rear tires no wear. Honda aligned engine frame on chassis. some problem gone, still pulls five seconds to lane change.

This is for the experts out there. No one can help, all alignment places cannot help and Honda has given up. Still pulls. Something hidden? Ball Joint in Suspension components? Any suggestions. '08 TL

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

has it been in an accident? If all else fails put it on the frame machine.

nfnsquared

Difficult to diagnose from afar...

Feathering is usually due to issues with toe.

Accident history?

Each set of tires only lasted 2000 miles?

You said aligned 3 times? By the same shop? Was the front end (toe) out of spec each time? Can you post the alignment sheets?

If it was out of spec each time and there is no accident history, then I'd suspect bad bushings which are causing the toe to shift.

P.S. If you've been going to the same shop (doesn't sound like it), then I'd try someone else...

Jspec9

How many miles total on the vehicle?
When did you start to notice the tire wear?
Have you had any incidents with the vehicle?
Did you lower the subframe at all?
Front end is solid?
You mentioned that the LCA's look good, are you referring to the arms themselves or the bushings?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Measure the distance between the center of the front wheel to the center of the rear wheel on each side. Should be equal, if not a problem.

nfnsquared

^^^ And if this is a problem, don't go back to that Honda dealer

makk

It is possible the deales alignment machine is out of calibration, the heads are net, etc.
find a shop that specializes in work on high end cars and serious racers who track their rides.

Jeffers

Checked alignment at three different places. Checked the engine frame alignment, rotated and changed all tires.

Problem started four months ago.

Bushings are slightly worn, but not cracked all the way through. Arms look great, no indication of damage. No play in front end, Solid.

Rear brakes good, no calipers hung. 67,000 miles on car.

No one, Dealers or independents can help. I'm beginning to hear wispers of Transmission caused issues, but seems like a long shot. Could this issue if everthing has been checked or addressed possibly be transmission related?

and yes, the tires are showing Toe issues, but all three different "good state of the art" alignment machines show static alignment as very good. Seems issue is under motion only.

nfnsquared

You didn't comment on accident history?

By engine frame, I assume you mean subframe?

Sure sounds like bushings or some suspension component is worn (assuming clean accident history and good subframe).

Jeffers

No accidents. Yes, it was a realigment of the engine frame within the unibody. Was slightly off. Been trying everything. this sounded good as the lower control arms are attached to it. Some improvement in pull strength. I even checked the shock mounts for damage. Car will change lanes on highway in approx 5 seconds.
It appears as if I get a Castor problem only while moving that causes the right pull which then causes the tires to wear like toe being off. The challenge with this is that we cannot find anything that may indicate a dynamic challenge.
Just spoke with a shop that will be checking the drive shaft connections and the transmission on Wednesday. Seems like that may be my only alternative to trading in an excellent and much loved car.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

odd.
hope you get it solved

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

sucks...

makk

I assume you or shops have checked for inner and outer tie rod end wear? Shake wheels at 3 and 9 o'clock with weight off.

Jspec9

He said front end was solid. Im pretty sure he would have noticed tie rod end play(I hope)

Your front end may be sold, but you could have some bent components...like a spindle assembly......and it could be very minor....
This is kinda rattling my brain here
I wish i could have the car on a hoist

Just to make sure...double check the bushings in the upper control arms. Try prying both of them back and forth. Recheck the upper bj with a channel lock pliers.

Really though, what else is gonna cause that type of issue? If what your saying is true, it would be pretty hard to find the culprit if the caster is changing while the car is moving and it would be some slight movement only

So the problem started 4 months ago out of the blue? You didn't bottom out in a pot hole or anything?


Is the car all stock>?

Jeffers

Tie Rods are good. Looks like nothing in the suspension, but something is dragging the car to the right.
How do you solve an unsolvable problem?
I'm praying for it to be something like the transmission or drive shafts. Something under Acura Care. Imagine if I have to trade it in for something like a volkswagon or an accord? I'm sure they are nice cars, but after looking at five dealerships today, I always looked at the TL and it was the better car. maybe I should just put 30psi in the left tire and 34 in the right. maybe that will offset the pull. Kinda stupid though, but I'm at the end of the line with solutions. Sure wish there was a transmission, drive shaft expert out there who could comment on this.

Jeffers

After the transmission guy tomorrow, I found a lift that I can borrow. I'm bringing a metal rod to try to pry at all the components such as the control arms and such. Someone also recommended using finger nail polish on all the components and check for cracking to see if any shift. that's a major effort. The crack may even seal up to tight to see when I check. didn't bottom out or hit a por hole. Just started. A component went bad which seems to point to a bushing or bearing somewhere.
Just for kicks, how do I check the upper ball joint with channel locks. I'm guessing you are referring to the upper control arm ball joint, or are you thinking the tie rod ball joint?

Jeffers

Jspec9,

Car is all stock.

dstah

iTrader: (-1)

How are your shocks ?? Height is even on both sides ?

makk

Bent spindles would show up when tech does caster sweep during alignment, so not that.
When you get it in the air, shake, pry and inspect all front end parts.
Just thinking out loud, but the driveshaft on the passenger side is a two piece unit. I wonder if the bearing in the outer end of the stub shaft that goes into the trans is binding?

Jeffers

shocks look good, can't tell anything else. Assuming problem started without impact damage as all was great for years till I moved to south texas (not that that has anything to do with it). It just started. But I did look at the shock towers for bushing splitting and deterioration. All looks great!
The transmission issue is next on the agenda. I am discussing this with any one who will still listen after the lengthy voyage of discovery this has taken me on and it seems we are all starting to look to the transmission. No noise has been heard. No visual indication of distress. But the transmission place I'm going to has been servicing acuras for twenty years. Just found them through an internet search. 298 comments, every one five stars. I've gota believe they may be the ones to help. Your suggestion about the bearing is a good one. Xmas wont bring resolution, but Xmas +one day may and (Hopefully) give me something to bring to this discussion.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

can you post pics of the car head on and the tires?

Also, do you carry any cargo or passengers?

csmeance

Feathering of your tires means that you have an alignment problem. You've said you have gotten an alignment at 3 different places and had it put back to spec so that means that you have a failed suspension component.

I would start by putting the car up on a lift or jack and checking each component yourself, esp check for any sort of play in the wheel. Grabbing the wheel at 3 and 9 and shake side to side. Grab at 12 and 6 and shake up and down, etc. If there is play pinpoint what part the play exists at.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

are you getting print outs to show the before and after specs?
Can you post them?

Jeffers

Yes the feathering is an alignment problem. I have attached several outputs. Arter looking at them it seems the car cannot keep an alignment. All the front end stuff is tight and I cannot get any movement by trying to wiggle the components. If the car cannot hold an alignment, why are the Honda dealer, goodyear and a private alignment shop telling me that they cannot find the problem.

I do not carry cargo except an occasional passenger and the front end pic pf the car doesn't seem necessary unless you are looking for something in particular?

dstah

iTrader: (-1)

Your tires aren't wavy right ? Take a pic of your tires

nfnsquared

ahhh, but they had to adjust the front end toe each time. That wasn't clear to me from your above statement. And looks like it's the passenger side with the gross mis-alignment. Makk may be on to something with his idea on the bearing...

But then I'm also wondering how the subframe got bent/ misaligned, if the amount it was off was really an issue, and if it has any relationship to the toe issue??

You are the original owner so you know the full history of the car? And it's never been driven by anyone else without you also in the car?

Fulani has a TL

iTrader: (1)

Based on the sheet scans, it has to be suspension related. Don't know what transmission has to do with it?

Seems as though some information is being left out. Why would the engine have to be aligned after four years of ownership? If there was a problem, it would be pronounced alot sooner, unless you ran over a curb, hit a massive pothole, drove through a ditch... But even then suspension would be a major factor...

Give it the shake test!

makk

Looking at the attached sheets, you have bent suspension on the passenger side. A vehicle pulls to the side with least positive caster, hence to the right on your car. Check the LCA and shock/spindle assembly.
The Honda dealer only checked camber and toe, notice no caster readings.

Jspec9

[QUOTE=Fulani has a TL;14229706]Based on the sheet scans, it has to be suspension related. Don't know what transmission has to do with it?

Seems as though some information is being left out. Why would the engine have to be aligned after four years of ownership? If there was a problem, it would be pronounced alot sooner, unless you ran over a curb, hit a massive pothole, drove through a ditch... But even then suspension would be a major factor...

Give it the shake test![/QUOTE

Agree wit this, but check the rack properly. Especially the inner tie rod ends. Could be some minor play. Also, make sure its not a rack issue or bushings for the rack. I've seen something like that happen before. Your toe in the front is constantly changing so it has to be something loose.

Jspec9

Also agree with that. I forgot to mention that. Caster should be withing spec.
If the issue is something bent I don't think that he reading would change or you would have an issue getting it within spec due to the bent component.

He is having the alignment done but then it is changing afterward.
I'd be leaning towards something worn out as apposed to a bent spindle.

What do you think makk?

makk

^^^ not so much worn as bent. If something is loose or worn, it shows up on the alignment machine as a warning for excessive wobble in that wheel. It should not allow the alignment to continue till corrected. I would measure the gap on both sides from tire to fender at the front edge, will show how much the passenger side tire is pushed back.

TVL65

I had the same exact problem, the dealer was never able to get it in complete proper alignment. I finally took it to a alignment specialist and they installed an aftermarket (adjustable) balljoint, its been 1 year & no more problems since.

speedytypes

I have a similar issue, My type s is very difficult to keep in a straight line and changes direction depending on whether im on the throttle or not. It happens with my winter tires and summer tires the same. Ive had it aligned about a year ago after I installed my lowering springs and new shocks. Ive been to a Honda dealer and had the suspension looked at and to no avail its tight. Im going to get another alignment done and hopefully it'll remedy it. Im kinda hoping the first guy had a uncalibrated machine.