Hey guys I need some advice. My auto 05 TL with 62k is having trouble shifting from 1st to 2nd. I have to completely let off the gas and coast a little bit before the tranny will shift. I have no idea how this started. I returned home from vacation to find the car like this. I wouldn't say the tranny has been abused. Aside from the occasional dyno and "product testing" the car is daily driven by my mom and sister.

I am pretty sure the 1st gear clutch pack is toast. Should I have the tranny rebuilt or just swap in a junkyard tranny. I've been doing some research and apparently the TL shares the same tranny as the Accord. Since there were so many Accords made; a salvage tranny should be easier to find.

I am also considering rebuilding it myself using parts from Raybestos. It looks like their friction plates might perform slightly better OEM.

http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/p.../Honda_GPX.pdf

 

Good luck richie

 

From what I have heard and read its not worth the time or money to rebuild the stock AT tranny. I would either swap it out for another AT( im not sure if the accord will line up excactly w/o and modifications) or go all out and throw the M trans in there. good luck either way. If and when my AT goes, I will be forking over the doe to get a manual trans..

 

You can throw a type-f fluid in there to limp the car along a little longer.

If you can rebuild yourself, I would go this route. You're looking at no more than $500 in parts unless you have a ton of hard part damage which is extremely unlikely. Don't forget to replace the 3rd and 4th gear switches and for now on use nothing but Redline Racing type F fluid. It will not wear out again if you do this.

If they make them for the Honda trans, Alto blues were always a great clutch for a street build and the reds were good for racing but a bit more pricey. Either way, the type f fluid will make even the OEM clutches last a very long time even under racing conditions.

This would be a great time to look into getting the TC stalled higher.

 

I am worried the same thing will happen with a used tranny. I have the worst luck with Honda autos. This might be the 4th Honda auto that has died on me.

Do you think it just simply just wore out? I would be fine with that, I am just worried something else caused it to fail. I swapped out the switches and did a drain and fill a few 1000 miles back. I will try the type f fluid and see if that will last me a little while.

Alto does make clutches for the TL, I couldn't find any reference to blue or red clutches for the TL. I think I will give them a call first thing tomorrow. Would a more aggressive clutch plates result in firmer shifts?

Thanks for the help guys.

 

when you drain and fill the AT fluid you should do it three times running the car a little each time...

 

There are 2 routes to go... Better clutches or better fluid (non friction modified fluid).

Personally I wouldn't bother with aftermarket clutches if you use the type-F fluid. They both accomplish the same thing in the end.... more holding power, less slip.

The fluid can increase dynamic holding power by 50% and static holding power by 100%. We know the drivability is better than factory because a lot of us are starting to run it. The drain magnet literally has nothing on it now at change time.

The high energy clutches will likely do the same thing but it's unknown if you will run into any issues like shudder. I don't want to discourage their use because odds are they will work great. Just pointing out that since no one has used them that I know of, they're sort of an unknown.

There are still options within the options. You can tailor shift quality using a mix of the non-FM fluid along with normal FM fluid. For example you can do the good alto clutches and do the initial fill with a regular DexIII fluid (not Z1, not ever again). If you want a quicker, firmer shift, start adding the non FM fluid. Remember, the quicker the shift, the less wear.

I firmly believe the combo of the switches and Z1 fluid are solely to blame in the '05 and up failures.

 

Thanks for explaining everything. I had no idea fluid could increase holding power that much. I plan on doing a drain and fill with type f fluild and seeing if that holds for a little while longer. Meanwhile I will checkout how much some local shops want for labor.

I called Alto this morning asking about their rebuild kits and they are pretty cheap. The seals and friction clutches were $165 and the steel clutch were an additional $45. I don't believe they have anything performance orientated though.

 

Out of curiosity.. try going SS and manually upshifting from 1st to 2nd and report back. Does it respond accordingly or does it still slip?

 

^^^ not sure if this will work... doesn't the earlier model AT auto shift you 1->2 in SS mode?

 

The 04-06 does auto upshift 1-2 but you can still manually control the shift before the engagement point. It might rule out some other issues if it indeed responds.

 

I went to pull the TL into the shop last night and heard a gear on gear grinding. I plan on pulling the trans and tear it apart when I have sometime.

 

I think you're past the point of a simple fluid fix...

Keep us updated, I'm curious what exactly let go.

Also, very interested if you get the stall speed changed. Looks like you could have an extra 50lbs of torque available from a standing strat from only 300rpm increase.

 

Sure thing, I will post pictures of the tear down and clutches even if I can't put it back together. I've been studying the manual carefully.

Turns out that the HMA race team I sponser is getting a converter built for their Odyssey at a local shop. I might drop by when I have time and check it out.