AcuraVic

Well, its been a fun 105,000 miles.
Last week my tranny started slipping, and today the Acura Dealer explained that if the drain and refill does not work, then I need a new tranny. $3100 + out the door. My TL VIN is way past the last VIN on the safety recall which requires the oil jet kit, so that is that.
I'm weighing all my options now, from buying the tranny on one end to selling and cutting my losses on the other. Damn, I really like this car.
I wonder how long Acura will ignore this problem?
I've seen alot of threads about transmission problems, manual and auto. I've even seen a Honda Accord thread about the 6 speed manual not shifting to third gear. We'll see what the drain and refill does.
I know one thing, this car should last alot longer that 105,000 miles, and I've had alot of Honda's.

01tl4tl

someone is full of it
the recall was to install an external oil jet kit- newer cars have the kit installed INSIDE the transmissions- thats all
That has nothing at all to do with the failure by slipping- which is caused by not enough cooling oil FLOW to the clutches-
nothing a drain and refill will ever do besides put a 100 in the dealers pocket.
Acura is WELL aware the prob was not fixed in mid 03- or 04 or 05.....

You need to speak in person and DIRECT with the service MANAGER only!!!
the sales errr... service writer- quotes prices and the book statements- they get commission- figure it out~
The MANAGER can talk to acura corps regional warranty rep (this is normal thing for them to do) and get approval for full coverage replacement

The gen2 cars have a 7year9 month - 109k miles trans extended warranty- ordered by the court- so gen3 should get grandfathered, or grandson'd in--- with the same exact problem

If the Manager wont help you or says he/she was turned down- or says can only split the cost with you - next step is acura 1-800-382-2238x5, make a report and wait for manager to callback- the phone person only writes stuff down and quotes from a script
Dont sell the TL!!!! Get what is rightly yours~
Many dealers see 1 to 4 gen3 for trans fail per month and warranty them, and that many or more on gen2s

AcuraVic

Process Started. We'll see what happens.
I knew the drain and refill was a shot in the dark. It was my choice, not there's.
I've read all the threads about the Gen2 and Gen3 trans problems.
If you have access to the actual rule by the court (online or scanned) that would be good to see.

Fulani has a TL

iTrader: (1)

the 34d gen, will not be grandfathered in as it is a different transmission design. Grandfather law takes counts for those who already have the current design before the law is taken into place. It will not count for 3rd gen. Especially after the tranny was redesigned. Do some homework and figure out what a grandfather law is before making statements like that.

01tl4tl

fulani- pthfo~
OP has an 04- when the problem was rampant!
I get my info from the cool tech at my local dealer- amazing what donuts will do!!
Where do you get yours?

ok- we will call it what acura does ~Goodwill Replacement~
does that make you happy now?

SodaLuvr

How many times did you change the transmission fluid over the course of 105k?

You should explain to that the Honda 5-speed autos have a poor reliability record and that you are not the only one to experience this.

01tl4tl

The dealers are SO aware of this- you are not the first with the problem, it happens all the time- 1 a month is not unusual, and many of those had really low mileage 30-60 k
if you want to read gen2 court case just google for it- or its in here several places, and on acura.com where everyone should be registered anyway.
https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?brand=acura
need your VIN to register- also register as owner at 1-800-382-2238 x5 and ask if any open recalls or extended warranty issues on your car.

Being nice to the service Manger is the first step- loyal to acura- love your car- encouraged others to buy one etc.
Having it serviced there has NO relation to anything- remember- you are to speak only with the manager of Service Dept- not the underlings

AcuraVic

The Regional rep was at my dealership today. My service manager played my voicemail about my problem to him. The service rep asked if I was a good customer, and the answer is yes (haveing had a 96 TL and 04 TL). So I get to pay 5% of the total cost ($126.00) and they pay the rest. Also, they are trying to expedite the transmission as it is on back order (imagine that).
The proof is in the pudding!! So i'll update the thread WHEN the repair is complete.

Thanks 01tl4tl, for your encouragement to call the service manager.

csmeance

did you ever change it?

SodaLuvr

Yeah, usually the Maintenance Minder will spit out a code 3 for a fluid change around the 60k mark, then it's possible that he might get another code 3 about this time. The subsequent changes are usually at a shorter interval after the first one.

01tl4tl

Congrats Vic- thats a great deal.
Make sure to fill out the survey card with your receipt, and write a thank you letter to Acura corp and the Dealerships General Manager.
On the surveys- anything less than 10s is a fail and results in calls and actions being taken to resolve.
A thank you letter and good surveys= bonus pay for Service Manager
Donuts are a nice thank you to the tech dept.

Xpditor

I've only got 12k miles on my '04 TL and I've already done a drain and fill X1 last year at 7900 miles and just did another last week.

I've saved samples of the used tranny fluid and am trying to prevent problems with the tranny as I intend to have the car a long time.

If I do have problems, they can't say it's from abuse or lack of maintenance. .

AcuraVic

The fluid was changed on schedule (per the manual) once at 60K, and again at 105K. However, all techs I talk to say it should be changed every 30K.

AcuraVic

Already ahead of you.

AcuraVic

One More thing....
For those of you that believe in God, I did Pray and ask for help from God before I took the car in. Prayer Answered!!

AcuraVic

One More thing.....

I changed the fliud at 60K, and again at 105K.
That is what the service and owners manual says. (I have a service manual for the 04/TL). Since this ordeal, I have talked to Acura and Honda techs (same?) and they recommend the fluid drain at 30K intervals. And since you can only drain 3-4 quarts (of the 7 quarts) it needs to be done twice. Drain and refill, then drive for a couple of days, then drain and refill again.
I believe the proceedure in the service manual calls for the drain/refill - drive- drain/refill again at the service time (not over a couple of days).
If you do it yourself, you'll need an impact driver to get the ATF bolt off.

If you have to talk to your service manager about a problem, be cool. I believe that contributed to them wanting to pay for my service. The angry irrate customer are a dime a dosen. I was angry, but I decided to ask them to help instead of telling them they better help, and it worked.

ankur914

YAY! Glad to see that everything is working out for you!

01tl4tl

The dealers now suggest (I dont know what the new book says) every 30k miles
Personally I would do a 3x3 change as I dont believe changing 1/2 the fluid is doing any real good. Get it all out and fresh or why bother

Would you change half the engine oil and call it done?

Would you take 4 weeks out of date milk carton in the frig, pour out half,
add fresh new milk to the container to fill it back up...
and then drink it?

AcuraVic

they also told me the Transmission does not have a true ATF filter, and it doesn't have a cooler. There is a ATF strainer inside the tranny, but you have to break down the tranny to get to it.
My 96 TL (2.5) had a cooler. I wonder why Acura went away from the cooler ?

Black_dc2

2 questions. 1: What is a 3x3 fluid change? 2: Does the 6mt also need to be changed twice at the same time??

I just hit 60k and I am going to change my fluid, only thing is I have 45k left of a warranty and was thinking of using the gm synchromesh fluid. Will this void my warranty? Should I just use the acura stuff instead? And do I need 8 quarts, considering I have to change it twice?

Ducks

Vic

Just curious. Now that you are getting a fresh transmission, have you considered adding an external cooler and/or filter? I think Acura went away from the cooler simply to save money.

Did you have any discussions with the dealer's service folks about adding a cooler or filter?

Glad that Acura stepped up to take care of this for you!

01tl4tl

black- we are discussing the 5 speed auto when 3X3 is mentioned
The manual trans you drain and refill 1 time, there is no torque converter hiding 3 qts inside from you!
Check the owner book for your capacity
Look thru the threads or search for the GM fluid- big thread on it

AcuraVic

No I didn't ask that, and I dont think the transmission is designed for any type of cooler. However, that is a good question and I will investigate.

Jeffa1

HE does work in mysterious ways. A little prayer never hurts. I'm glad things are working out for you.

Got to remember to change my AT fluid at 30K.

AcuraVic

Has anyone had any experience with Synthetic Auto Trans Fluid ?
Royal Purple and Castrol both claim cooler operating temps in the trans.

SodaLuvr

Even if ATF-Z1 is not the best in some ways, the frictional properties of the fluid is very different than most other fluids on the market. The concept of a true "universal" ATF is a bit of a gimmick. This SAE paper proves it:

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2007-01-3987


I don't believe that fluid caused the failure in this transmission, especially if you've changed it twice within 105k. We'll probably never know what caused the failure unless the unit was disassembled and inspected by an engineer.

Acura does not require a complete fluid change as part of normal maintenance. It isn't absolutely required, but I think it's still a good idea as well, for the same reasons that 01t4tl mentioned. This unit cannot be flushed nor can you safely install a cooler as it is a "self-contained" unit, similar to many of the newest transmissions.

Draining and refilling the transmission three times (and driving several miles in between each one to allow the fluid to mix) is a good way to replace most of the fluid. I would change the fluid every 60,000 miles personally. No need to do it every 30,000 miles.

SodaLuvr

On a manual, nearly all of the fluid comes out when you drain it. Use the OEM fluid. Using GM's synchromesh fluid may have undesirable long-term effects that we are unaware of. I talked to GM's head of drivetrain lubrication and he said that using the GM fluid in a Honda transmission is pretty much a shot in the dark.

ankur914

I believe a few are running Amsoil.

I Hate Cars - running the Amsoil ATF specified for Allison(spelling?) transmissions.
Road Rage - the universal Amsoil ATF
InAccurate - i believe he is running Mobil 1 ATF

01tl4tl

Soda-
from what I read on the new dealer procedure, and the old 5 minutes drive method- what the intent is: drive/shift thru each gear up and down to PUSH fluid out of the various cylinders and dohickeys, and some oil from the torque converter is pushed along when it locks up- to operate-.
Around the block making sure to manualy shift thru every gear- including R and P, then back home and on the ramps.
I believe the 5 minutes suggestion is to keep underbody temps reasonable so you can get under and drain trans right away- refill- drive-drain refill etc
Not making a whole day project out of it.
My belief of the new dealer method-- is simply to speed their work, and it does ensure full engagement of all the gears to do as good a job as possible, without actually driving the car- and the time and liabilty required to keep putting the car up and down.

Xpditor

There's actually nothing wrong with changing the oil filter on todays premium oils and just topping off with a quart of new oil which restores the additive mix.

Some oil engineers have gone 50,000 miles and more doing this.

But, I wouldn't. I'm going to be very conservative with my investment.

I should add that I never throw any food away just because some arbitrary date has passed. As far as I am concerned, that is a guide for the retailer, not the consumer. I keep milk until it gets lumpy. Then I move it from the milk shelf to the cottage cheese shelf.

BTW: How do you tell when sour cream and blue cheese go bad?

SodaLuvr

If you read the procedure, it involves going through all of the gears several times. This accomplishes what you've outlined.

Anyone who tries an universal ATF should read the SAE paper first. Study the graph on the behavior of the various fluids on the GM single plate friction test.

01tl4tl

I prefer to keep getting warranty replacement transmissions- that saves me the work of changing the fluid

SodaLuvr

Black_dc2

How often should you change the tranny fluid in a 6mt?

SodaLuvr

Same interval, every 60k I'd say.

AcuraVic

Price of a transmission drain and refill at the Acura Dealer, $89.95.
Price of a transmission drain and refill at the Honda Dealer, $59.95.
They use the same proceedure and products.

AcuraVic

BTW: How do you tell when sour cream and blue cheese go bad?

When your body rejects the mixture

AcuraVic

This article addresses the proceedure for ATF drain and refill (they call it a flush).
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B080100.PDF

01tl4tl

note the new acura procedure is really designed for newer cars with different trans issues and operations than some others

SodaLuvr

???