rolan04tl

Hi people and Marry X-mas to all!

I have been reading a lot about doing a 3x3 ATF drain and I would really apreciate advice from someone knowledgable.

The thing is my 04 tl is about to hit 60k miles and I am experiencing some shuddering at slow acceleration from 30 to 35 mph. Its not horrible but I can definitelly feel it some times. I did the 3rd and 4th gear replacement but unfortunately for me that didnt help. So my next step is to do a ATF drain and refill. I have read about how it is not a good idea to do a 3x3 with high millage and i want to know if I should avoid the 3x3. so here are the details.

- at 56k I did a x1 drain and refill of ATF at the dealer.
- im about to hit 60k
- I have some shuddering at low revs between 30 -35mph. It ussually happens on 3rd gear, just before it shifts to fourth.
- dont know if it had any other ATF maintenance since I bought he car with 47k miles.
- I a=want to do the 3x3 to see if it helps with the shuddering.

The question, Given these conditions, am I safe to a 3x3 or should I avoid the 3x3 and only do a 1x1?

Please help a newbie out.

Thanks peeps.

Rolan

AnthraciteAspec

iTrader: (6)

Do the 3x3 and 99% guarantee it will fix your problem. I had the same thing and the 3x3 fixed it, my tranny feels way better since I had it done.

Hapa DC5

yes 3x3 should help you out. I changed my tranny fluid out for the first time at 58k and it was TOAST. Metal shavings, brown/dark fluid, you name it. By the third drain and refill it started looking red again.

I have yet to change out the 3rd and 4th gear sensors along with the filter under the air box. I may wait till when I hit 90k when I do my 3x3 again or just change these out around new years when I have some free time.

binTL

I get the same thing too. Going up a small hill, never going downhill, at 30mph shifting from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th, i can feel the car shudder. The rpm will be around 2100 so i just punch it to downshift and increase the rpm to above 2500 and it goes away. I have performed a x1 drain and fill at 45K and fluid flush using a machine at 65K and currently running at 85K. Been having this issue from 40K i think.

AnthraciteAspec

iTrader: (6)

You should have had the dealer do a 3x3 at 40k and the issue would have been fixed. It still might not be too late.

rolan04tl

First of, thank you all for the quick replies.

Hey AnthraciteA, what was your millage when you did the 3x3? how long have you been going after that without issues?

So you had the issues and a 3x3 got rid of the shuddering? Also, how long have you gone after the 3x3 without issues with your AT.

Darn, I hear flushing with a machine is not recomended. you could try a 3x3 drain/refill see if it helps. Ima do it as soon as I get a chance.


Thanks again!

Rolan

I hate cars

There's really nothing to think about here. Do the 3x3 and be done with it. Every time it shudders you're doing big damage to the clutch packs. The longer you wait, the more damage is being done and after a while it will be too late. Shudder is very, very hard on clutches.

The factory recommended interval is way too long especially on this crap fluid. If you stick with Z1, do a 1x3 drain and fill every other engine oil change after you do this initial 3x3. If you go with a good synthetic you can lengthen that interval considerably. The 60-100K interval is a selling point for the car but should not be followed. UOAs on the factory fluid shows severe oxidation and sheering by as little as 20,000 miles.

Inaccurate

A point of interest for any newbies that might be reading this thread. It is normal for the trans to feel "different" while going uphill/downhill. Even the slightest grade change (incline/decline) will cause it. Here is why -

Grade Logic discussion - A (click here)

Grade Logic discussion - B (click here)


Regarding the flush machines -

American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using aftermarket trans flush systems (click here)

Flush Systems: A Big Taboo (see page 3 of 4) (click here)

rolan04tl

So I finally did and finished my 3x3. took me a couple days but it wasnt hard, just time consuming.

Havent been able to drive the car much but as soon as I try it i will report on the outcome.

So heres a picture of my drain plug. Is this bad?



Peace,

Rolan

Inaccurate

Are those metal shavings ? It sorta looks like metal needles standing on their end like the raised hair on the back of a dogs neck. Are those metal shavings ?

Is it the photo, or does the oil have a blue tint ?

TL on "20"

Mine was like that too, Text me and let me know if you get the problem fixed.

I hate cars

That's not bad. It's especially not bad if this was the first change. Mine was much worse for it's first change. It nearly stopped shedding metal once I started running the Amsoil ATD. Then when the dealer installed Honda Z1 after my wreck even though I left them a gallon of Amsoil, the next time I changed it, the magnet was covered in metal again.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

that fluid looks really dirty. good thing you did a 3x3. my plug looked worse at 70k miles

Inaccurate

Wow... so the metal shavings is normal for Z1... holy crap

I started using "Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF" since my car had just 14,000 miles. It has been too long ago for me to remember what the plug looked like when I first flushed out that Z1. I did a 4x3 flush (3-qts for 4 times) when my car had 14k.

Since that initial 4x3 flush (3-qts for 4 times), I have done a single 3-qt ATF drain ever 3,000 miles thereafter. I do a 3-qt ATF drain every time I do a motor oil change.

With the "Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF", I have never seen a single metal flake/needle on my drain plug. The only thing I find on my drain plug is a smooth, super-fine black powder, which I assume is clutch material from normal wear.

rolan04tl

Well, I had a 1x1 drain and refill done by acura 4k miles ago but I dont know if they cleaned the drain plug (and I would not expect them to have done so). So I hope they didnt and all that metal shavings are from zero miles to 60k. =p
Wish I had read about Amsoil before I did this 3x3, Ima have it in mind for the next one.

BTW, I have not felt the shuderring yet, so it seems like it helped. Thansk for the input IHC. also happy I did the 3rd and 4th gear switch replace. cheap maintenance for peace of mind.

They are indeed metal shavings, the bluish tint on paper towel is from the metal shavings on the drain plug. the oil is the brownish part on the paper towel.

Im glad I did it, shift quality is definitely better.



Thank you all.

Rolan

Hapa DC5

Rolan,

glad to hear it's shifting better for you. Over 3+ years and 58k my transmission would just get confused as to what gear to change over to sometimes. It was few and far between and happened even when I bought the car new. Since I've been running Mobil synthetic ATF the shift quality has improved over the last 2k.

The tranny seemed confused again when I first switched it out (first 1k miles on the fluid), but now that I'm at almost 61k that symptom has pretty much vanished.

binTL

I hate cars, why do u use ATD instead of the recommended ATF? Is it because ATD is thicker than the ATF thus providing more lubrication? Would you continue using ATD or move to ATF? I think i read somewhere that you are gonna try redline.
Thanks