TLinSeattle

Anyone else have a shuddering sensation in 3rd gear under slow, steady acceleration on a very slight incline or flat road? I don't notice this unless I am steady on the throttle and just let the car work itself through the gears. I'm about to take the car in for some other warranty work (hoot-hoot-hoot from the rear brakes on hard braking, pinging, and underbody clatter from left front when going over road abnormalities at low speeds). Wondering if I should mention this 3rd gear issue, or if it will just take their focus away from diagnosing the other issues (each for at least the second time).

n-cal05

I have a 05 AT with the same problem. 2-3 gear shift shuddering. I was planing on replacing the pressure sensors ( a thread on this is in here,and many people have done this) but I am having the car serviced at the dealer 4 this reason and other misc. items so I will keep u up to date. P.S. It might be a few days, I am going out of town.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

Hi There,
I recently purchased my TL-S with 19k miles. I feel this too and I thought it was due to the way the shifts have been programmed to optimize fuel economy. I feel this the most between 60-70mph on the freeway wit the RPMs in the 1500-2000 range and with very light throttle. It shudders on flat roads and worsens on mild inclines. Infact on second thoughts it shudders everytime the ar is in 5th with low RPMs and increasing engine loads. Can you relate to that? I have driven many "sporty" cars prior to this one and this cannot be normal. Let me know what the stealership says about this.
Rick

dwb993

iTrader: (13)

Don't wait too long on this and read the thread on replacing the 3rd & 4th gear switches. https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/110-diy-guide-replacing-3rd-4th-gear-pressure-switch-3g-tl-2004-2006-a-729149/
From what I read there, by the time you notice the shudder the damage may already be done.

n-cal05

Update, got the car back today and service dep. says " cant find anything wrong with the trans". Got home and let the car cool down a bit. 20 min later went to the store and shudder 3-4 gear shift. So I repeated several times and got the same result, 3-4 shift shudder. Called Acura and they said to bring the car back in and for me and a service tech. to go on a test drive so I can reproduce what was happening. On a good note the service rep. said they don't care if they need to replace the trans. because Acura pays for the trans and the labor so they make money on the labor part. The car goes back next week.

n-cal05

dwb993, thanks 4 the link I knew it was here somewhere. But to the OP and me we still have warranty ( I have the extended warranty) so the dealer should fix this under the terms

dwb993

iTrader: (13)

I agree. With the symptoms your car is displaying, you should have the dealer resolve it. Especially since they seem eager to perform what needs to be done and it will cost you nothing.

However, my 06 at 44K is not displaying any symptoms beyond those mentioned in that thread and attributed to normal wear (sloppy shifts, no pep, etc---all noticed AFTER replacing the switches). I am replacing those switches as a preventative measure.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

any updates??? OP??

TLinSeattle

No updates yet - car still in at dealer since Saturday. I told them I didn't even really want to put the shuddering on the RO since it's hardly noticeable and they probably won't feel it - but they insisted. So I told them to keep the car as long as they need, told them to let the tech drive it as his personal car all week if he needs to in order to hear the various noises I was reporting. We'll see, I think they'll call me tonight. Meanwhile, I'm driving a new TL, which also pings, and has the same tranny oddities as all the other TLs. I think I'm done with the TL after this one (my 5th).

Majofo

You guys are really confusing. What type of transmission do you have?

There is a common known problem for the MT having a 3rd gear crunch which is alleviated by switching MTF to GM Synchromesh.

If you have an AT and you have slippage only in 3/4 upshift then it could very well be your pressure switches. Shudder usually is felt at higher rpms during the slip not low rpms. A low rpm TC shudder in any gear is bad news. Check your ATF level and condition of your ATF. Make sure the car is running on level ground before checking the ATF, or check it moments after shutting the car off (preferred unless you want to be scorched by the fans.. lol). Check the seal around the AT case on top & bottom and look for any apparent leaks / burned fluid on the case. If the fluid doesn't look so good then it's definitely time for a 3x3, new AT filter with those symptoms. New pressure switches would help but an in gear shudder is not pressure sensor / switch related. Above all.. if you're in warranty.. pester the service shop to take care of it at their expense.

TLinSeattle

This thread was started by me and the topic is shuddering when upshifting to 3rd gear under slow steady acceleration in an automatic transmission on a 2007 TL-S with 28k. There are no leaks, and the car is not quite due for a fluid change. This is a warranty issue. Hopefully that alleviates any confusion.

Majofo

Your problem could be a whole assortment of things.. could be engine related or transmission related with your symptoms. Are you running 91+ octane? have you ever over-rev'd the engine? I'm hoping the pinging that you are hearing isn't the development of engine knock.. does 3rd gear shudder if you leave it in 3rd in SS? Try going through the gears in SS mode and try to reproduce the problem, take note of the RPM's where the shudder occurs.

The rear brake sounds it's the ABS engaging.. I'd check the rear rotors.. look for any signs of binding or impingement near the wheel sensor. The driver's side clatter sounds very strange.. if it is indeed around the underbody in that area it could be the splash shield, front sub frame, lca, sway bar bushing.. typically the strut will make a thump / thud sound if it has gone bad.. I know you're under warranty but it takes all the fun out of diagnosing the problem yourself. I'm surprised you've owned 5 TL's. I hope you get everything resolved.

TLinSeattle

I have never over-revved the engine. The pinging issue is one experienced by many. See thread on "Valve Chatter in 2007 TL-S". Of course I'm running 91+ octane.

I can't replicate the 3rd gear shudder every time, and haven't been able to replicate it in SS. It's a very intermittent problem at this point.

The rear brake sound is NOT the ABS. I know what ABS sounds like when it engages, and this is not it. The noise pulsates with the turn of the rotor and decreases in speed as I decelerate.

The front end noise is most likely a shield. It's kind of a clank or clatter, not a thud. Most likely not strut related, but rather sounds like another part is loose.

I will keep you posted on what the dealer says.

Majofo

I really hope they take care of you at your dealer. Going there and getting these type of things documented will be invaluable if they are not able to properly diagnose & fix your issues. Definitely have a chat with the master tech who will be diagnosing the issues / working on your TL. The rear rotor could be warped or have formed hot / hard spots. If the rotor is glassy with no hard spots then it's probably the piston or a pad dragging.. new shims, clips & some CRC could resolve a pad issue. Definitely have them check the front sway bar bushing. Other than that.. good luck.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

Majofo,
I guess you got confused between the OP's and my post. I did not want to start a new thread regarding a similar issue.
Once again my problem is a little different but related as it is also a 07 TL-S and also involves a vibration/shudder. The only difference being that my problem is between 1800-2000 RPM and always in 5th gear between 60-70mph mostly cruising on the highway and only with mild engine load as in taking an incline at the above speeds with slight throttle. I can easily accelerate out of it by giving it some more gas. That is definitely torque converter clutter and should not happen in a car with 17k miles on it. I am going to the stealership once I have my car shipped from MA. I am currently in the middle of a relocation.

To the OP: What gear did you feel the pinging in the new TL?
Rick

Majofo

ah... well if that's the case..

Here you go:

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/B05-017.PDF

AZ related thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556987


Very common driveline vibration problem.. easy fix. Others have reported driveline vibration associated with torn compliance bushings in the LCA as well.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

So, went to the dealer with the TSB. Guess what... they will not apply the TSB to a 2007 TL type-S even though it is the same problem. They initially did not "reproduce" the problem. I insisted on a drive with the tech and refused to leave with the car. They conceded and immediately upon taking the on-ramp with a slight incline the car started lugging at 45-50 mph with RPM at 17k-19k. They took the car back in for a day and before leaving I gave them the TSB for the 5th gear vibration. I get a call in the evening informing me that the TSB cannot be applied and that the LUGGING is normal limit of engine function. How on earth is lugging in a 286hp/almost 260 ft/lb 3.5 v6 with an AT normal limits of function. This is turning out to be a sour experience with the TL.
I got this car about a month ago with 17k miles to replace my 04 Maxima which ran flawless for almost 62k miles before some wear and tear items gave up but the drivetrain was perfect. I thought I was getting value and reliability in a luxury brand. The dealership experience was worse than Nissan. I have called Acura and have an open case. I will be meeting a regional rep soon. I am skeptical about what he/she will have to offer. They have messed up big time on the transmission programming or this 3.5 engine is garbage. I am having buyer's remorse, I passed on a G35X with similar miles but with 2k more in price. That 2k is not worth this trouble. 4-5 of the almost 10 Type-S that I tested had this lugging so this not a one off issue. Mine did not have it on two occasions that I test drove it but now is owrse than any of the cars that I test drove. I hope prospective buyers find this thread ans are extra careful about where they are spending their money.

Rick

Just checked the G37 forums and it seems that they are having major issues with the 7AT transmission as well. So I guess manufacturing standards have fallen across the board or these things are getting way too complicated.

Majofo

sorry to hear that Rick.. I hope that they are able to resolve the issue.. a cheap resolution is to use SS and drop it down a gear but it really shouldn't lug at +1.7k, it's definitely a harmonic vibration transference.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

Hi Majofo,
What I am worried about is the longevity of the drivetrain. If I had wanted to shift I would have bought a 6MT. But you are right that is the easiest fix and works everytime that I try it. I will be meeting with the regional rep on Tuesday. What I have noticed is that if the car has been sitting over night or over the weekend it does not do it in the morning when I drive it to work though there are similar inclines each way. It does it big time in the evening when the temps are higher.I will post an update later.T

To the OP: I apologize for thread jacking. Please post updates.
Rick

Majofo

^ Rick you spent a lot of time & money finding that type-s.. don't let them give you some crap about not being able to address it. Basically let it be known that this is a big issue with you.. if they deny to address it, tell them you'll be in contact with the state attorney gen's office because they're denying to fix an issue that is known and acknowledged by Acura. As far as the AT, don't worry, dropping it down a gear won't damage it.. and if it only does it at op temps it could be several factors involved from metallurgy properties, lubricant viscosity to your intake air temp. Do you have the stock airbox installed?

dbhajek

I have a 2007 TL-S with 46000 miles and is doing the same thing. I just relocated my self from DC to California and after my coast to coast drive is when it all started. First I noticed it was starting to get a shift Shudder so I had my trans oil change which looks like it took car of the shift issue but know I have the low RPM shudder/lugging just as you describe.

My problem is the low RPM shudder/lugging is noticeable two me since I drive it daily but I dont think a tech would feel it and think anything is wrong.

I really dont know what to do at this point.

Bearcat94

The reason they won't apply the TSB is that, presumably, the fix was put in at the factory once it was discovered. IOW, the '07 already has the damper installed OR Honda/Acura has put some other fix in place to keep the drone from happening. Now that does not mean the factory fix is effective, just that applying the TSB would be redundant. They need another fix for you.

The current AT's are astoundingly complex. In the SM the trans gets more pages (316 on the AT alone) than any other system.

I did read/browse the thread, but did not see anything on Grade Logic. Is this possibly a factor?

Majofo

not too complex.. it's just a polished & refined AT from the 1G MDX..

TLinSeattle

Picked up the car from the dealer, here's the report:

• 2nd to 3rd gear shudder: dealer didn't bother to even note this complaint on the R/O. Now, I feel it once a day upon slow acceleration from 2nd to 3rd (but really the sensation is after the shift) there's a very apparent TC give-give-give-grab
• Pinging: dealer drove the car 80 miles and kept it for 5 days. On the fourth day, they finally "heard" the pinging, but it was while the car was under "extreme load", which is normal. I am ready to hook a microphone up under my hood to play the noise through my car speakers. These techs must have terrible hearing, or they're avoiding acknowledgment of the problem so they don't have to fix it.
• Rear brake noise: can't hear it. Though I've heard it twice since I picked it up. Like a "hoot, hoot, hoot" on firm braking.
• WORST OF ALL: they performed a timing belt shim update to eliminate a chirping sound during idle that my vehicle was not exhibiting. My service advisor told me they were just looking for SOMETHING to do to the car since they couldn't find anything else wrong with it!!!

I am so fed up with this TL, I can't even think straight. Here I bought a certified vehicle to avoid the headache of paying out of pocket for repairs, but Acura refuses to stand by their product, and it's like their techs are unfamiliar with the cars or something! Even my service advisor when I dropped it off (different from the one I dealt with picking up) told me he had three of the same car, and they ALL ping! He said no need to go for a drive, I could made that ping happen right here in the parking lot. Now they can't hear it? Hmmm...

I'm almost out of steam on this one, guys.

1fsthatch

just try a diff dealer

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

I can relate to your frustration. I bought a CPO as well and it has fallen short of my expectation. However, my issue was looked into today by the regional rep and they changed the rear motor mount and the vibration is at least 60% better to a point where I can tolerate it. Also I don't have the pinging issue yet but I don't really drive WOT. Just when I thought I would start liking this car I noticed fogging in both headlamps today and I have made yet another appointment to take it in. But I can deal with cosmetic issues such as these if the car drives well and so far(7 hours after fix) it has been tolerable to the point where it is enjoyable.

Timthetoolman

2004 TL AT 87k miles had a shudder under light throttle in third gear and problem is fixed.

--Changed 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches. Still problem while driving a few days.

--Changed AT fluid to Redline D4/Light Racing/Racing 3x3. Fluid change was due at 90k (severe maintenance schedule) and was pretty dark. Still a problem with shudder right after fluid change.

--After AT fluid change (same night) reset ECU (computer) and the next day or two I think I still had problem (do not remember).

--After driving two or three days the problem was totally gone.

--I believe that I should have reset the ECU after switch changes and the computer adjusted over time to the new switches but solution could be related to changing AT fluid.

Background information:
--Used standard Honda/Acura AT fluid at 60K miles.

--Shudder is light and is like running over small bumps and was best felt in 3rd gear, between 2500 and 3000 RPM, manual shift mode (I don't normally drive in manual), up an incline, light throttle and on very smooth road. Could duplicate in 4th gear but a little more difficult. Can feel to a lesser degree at lower speeds in 3rd. If you do not test like this it will appear to occur randomly or inconsistently. Follow above and problem will be totally consistent.

--Shudder also feels like engine mis-fire, due to spark plugs. Before fix I was going to try spark plugs, fuel injectors and coils--one at a time.

--When changing the switches I accidentally left the 3rd gear switch upper connector off and the stutter problem was very pronounced through out third gear and the D light was blinking. It was the exact same problem but much worse!

--Car was purchased with 30k miles on it an always driven very lightly. It has original plugs, injectors, coils--only has scheduled maintenance on oil, air filter, ..., use regular fuel (elevation 5k ft).

--Before and after AT fluid change car has always shifted well--smooth, no engine rev during gear change, no pop or harshness.

--After AT fluid change shifting was smooth and firm. Changing fluid always causes a slight improvement in shift quality with Honda fluid and was likewise with Redline. Statement is based on the many Hondas that I have owned.

Future:
--I'm hoping that changing switches every 50k miles and using low FM Redline mix will keep fluid from getting so dark in on 30k miles. (less transmission slip). If fluid looks a lot better before a change I may try the Honda fluid again just to see if there is a difference.

--If fluid is still pretty brown withing 30k miles I likely will do a 1x3 every 8k miles.

--Honda V6 (200k miles purchased new) with similar driving and 1x3 fluid change every 30k has much better looking fluid. Honda says 1x3 is recommended to reduce clutch wear since particles are needed to have right clutch friction.