Chad05TL

by the way, as far as measuring the cleat coat thickness, well, someone had done some spraying on the car before I got it. So basically I was finishing their half A** attempt on fixing it. So, the factory clearcoat is still there plus whatever stuff they sprayed on top. So All i'm hitting is the aftermarket clear coat. Plus i'm only going down to just where there are no spots left. Which is "flat". I'm not going any further. See the pic above where it says "needs more sanding".

NCTL05

iTrader: (9)

Dude...I so need this. I will drive to texas and leave my car with you. Amazing work!

bigBLACKTL

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

OMG I need to do this!! You have some patience to be doing this lol

PagnasTL

Killer write up man. Now i think i have the balls to do this. for you

PagnasTL

PS, what color foam pad did you use?
and that link you provided on amazon. is that the same size bottle you have pictured in YOUR pictures? basically is it the same amount?

powerflow

I hope you guys are not planning to do this on the OEM finish. There is no where near enough clear thickness on the OEM finish to flat sand it, and still have enough for UV protection. Honda is well known for soft, thin clear.

General rule of thumb is to have 2 mils of clear coat for proper UV protection. That's at least 2 coats. If a painter is going to knock down the clear, at least 3 coats will be applied. Another method, is to flat sand and re-clear.

CMCx2009

Awesome work

Chad05TL

I just used the off-whitle foam pad that came with the buffer. And I used a slow speed. no need to polish it fast. It just flings product everywhere. You can use the darker yellow foam pads too. At the end of it all, I usually follow up with some hand scrubbing in grooves and corners where the buffer wouldnt get. I used the #10 on that. And yes, I used the large bottle for the #10 cut, and the smaller bottle for the #3 cut. You can get the #3 swirl remover at a local auto store. The #10 cut is hard to find though. I just ordered another #10 bottle as I ended up using more than what I had expected on the 4 doors. I have done the hood and 4 doors and still have about 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle left. but I have panels and rear and the from to do. But i wont use all or even 1/2 of the second bottle. I just wanted to have some extra.

As far as doing this process on the factory paint job, well, you have to remember all we are doing is making the clear coat flat by removing the high spots. Ultimately we dont want to go lower or deeper than the lowest low point and you can see where in one of my pics where I said "needs more sanding". Those are low point and so we are just sanding down to that point so that you can not see it when the surface is wiped dry. So ideally, we are not going down any lower that what the factory had already produced. And secondly, you have to think to yourself, if I am wearing down the paint, will this ultimately take life off the paint. Well, I say "maybe", but it depends on how far you go, (so use 2500 grit only) and you have to think of how many years you intend on keeping the car. And does it sit outside all day long? If so, oxidation is always a concern on any paint. Nevertheless, I say try a small area and you you like the results then do more.

Chad05TL

also: when you sand with the 2500 grit paper, make sure you hold the paper tight around the sanding block. Use a flat sanding block. I used the 3m one they sell at walmart and pepboys. And again spray the surface with a bottle of water.. and keep the water flowing. If you keep the paper tight, then it sands more on the high points than down in the low points which is what we want to avoid doing. We just want to sand the tops of the orange peel down flat so when we polish, the surface has not ripples. The tight paper will also help you from going any deeper than what you desire.

Chad05TL

So I was out at Whiterock lake in Dallas last week and I see this really shiny redish or burgundy TL drive up and it parked. I thought wow it looked great! It was either an 05 or an 04. And it looked like it had not been in any wrecks, but I was curious about the amount of "orange peel" in the paint. So i walk up and inspect it after the guy walked off with his dog.. And I noticed it had some of that "fine" or "small sized" orange peel like mine had in the doors and a few other places. I know its natural to have some orange peel appearance, but I think these older 3g TL's have some of this "fine" orange peel from the factory. Plus I have seen a blue TL-S in this forum where the guy took a pic of his trunk and his trunk looked just as bad as mine. however, my trunk does not have much fine orange peel, it's more wavey with a bit larger ripples like what was on this guys blue TL-S. For that reason and plus I see imperfections in the clear coat on the top of the trunk from the person that owned my car before me, so I know there was no repair on my trunk.. So therefore I think my trunck is totally factory finish. However some spots on my car were repaired because its like the previous owner parked the car under a tree or maybe it had some hail damage that caused some "crow feet" circular cracks in the clear coat.. But even though the trunk was not repaired or resprayed I am going to sand on the rear facing panel of the trunk and fix it. So my point is, it's ok to sand on a factory finish with a block. But you just have to watch and sand a little bit, then dry it to see how far you have gone. Then you stop sanding when you dont see any evidence of orange peel, like I illustrated in my pics. Just think about it a sec. The orange peel effect or blurred effect comes from having low spots and high spots in the clear coat. So ideally, we are not taking down the clear coat any lower than what is already its lowest point. see? so we're just taking off the high spots. I also know of a guy in Tulsa who did this on his Trans Am. he actually took it over to the moderator/website owners house and let him sand on one spot to take out the orange peel. He said he would never attempt to do that, but he sure didnt mind letting this other guy do it. I dont understand why people have so many mental blocks about what they can do or can not do. But as for me, I think if I educate myself, there is no reason why I can't do the same work as someone else. After all, they can do it. Why can't I? If they learned it, then why can't I?

SweetJazz

Uh....yeah. I know the scratches are intentional. I was talking about the hood since the shop did such a crappy paint job. I would still have your paint thickness measured for future reference. NBP is super soft.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Hey man how long does it take? I go to Dallas from time to time (I usually got to Grapevine Lake to Jetski and wakeboard). Could you write a step by step tutorial? I have like white dots on my hoot and paint chips all over my front bumper. I'm wondering if this would help! I also have some bad scratches also!

SweetJazz

This is ridiculous. Chad05TL, you can do anything to your car you want. It is your car.

I have to say something for the ill informed who may be reading this and get the idea that wetsanding OEM clear is perfectly OK. It is not OK to wetsand OEM clearcoats unless you absolutely know what you are doing! For anyone who tries this, just know that once you go too far there is no turning back. Measuring the paint thickness using a good paint thickness gauge is mandatory. If you think your eyes are going to tell you how much clearcoat you have left you are sadly mistaken. Those low spots may have very little clearcoat and you are now putting the rest of your paint in jeopardy. Paint thickness varies all over a vehicle. I hate the amount of orange peel on my TL-S but my skills as an avid detailer helps minimize the effect. My recommendation is to take your car to a professional but they will most likely not touch it. It is too much risk for the amount of improvement we see in this example. Learn how to properly detail your car instead. The risks and rewards are far better.

powerflow

Being a retired painter, I can say this is a bad idea on a Honda OEM finish. Jazz's statement about going to far means needing a new paint job, which costs quite a bit for a high end job. Even if you don't burn through the clear, the finish will not hold up over time to constant UV exposure.

The OP's theory about the peel is somewhat flawed. The peel is not just in the clear only. The finish starts with a flat panel, then sealed with a primer sealer and/or epoxy DTM primer, then a few base coats, then a few coats of clear. The peel actually starts from the first coat of product. There is no sanding in between, unless to remove an imperfection. That's why a high end painter strives to make each coat as flat and even as possible. But, a lot of the peel can come from the clear depending on how and who painted the car. Fact is, if you mil tested 5 spots in a 1 square foot area, then flat sanded the clear, then buffed/polished to a high gloss. Then re-tested the same 5 spots, the mil thickness will be less, meaning you reduced the clear thickness.

I'm not saying you can't do this, but for the sake of good discussion, it is a bad idea on a Honda OEM finish. Now if you want a show car finish, that would be different and would start with a top notch paint job including a full finesse to flatten the clear profile.

Chad05TL

The champ: What are these white spots you are talking about? Can you take a pic of it? And depending upon how large the area is will determine how long it takes. But yes, it takes a while. I did my rear bumper the other day, and it ended up taking about 5.5 hours to sand and polish it back up to a high gloss. But it looks like a million bux now.

sweetjazz:
I disagree with your comment about the low spots "having very little clear coat". But lets say thats true, if "the low spots are already low and I just jeopardized the rest of my paint job", then if the low spots are already low then what good is a paint job that is bare ever other 1/8 to 1/4 inch when the paint begins to oxidize? So, I didnt jeopardize the rest of my paint. If the low spots are already "bad" then the whole damn paint job is wasted. So in other words, your assumption of jeopardizing my job is wrong.

powerlow: yes this does remove clear coat. Thats how you get it flat. If you use a block and sand just a little bit then dry it to see how far you have gone, you'll see that with 2500 grit paper it takes more than just a few swipes to get it flat. So cant really go to far if you read what I have posted.

Here's anotehr idea. What if your pait is already screwed up? haha Where there are white spots and scratches. Then why not work on it? However, deep scratches are another story. If only the clear coat is scratched and not down to the base coat or metal, then still depending upon how deep the scratch is in the clear coat, then it might be best to fill the scratch with clear, then let it dry and sand it back down like a wet sanding process but just on that one spot. So I thought I would try this stuff. clear coat in a bottle. yay! https://www.buyfixit.com/ver49/index.asp
Well, it didn't dry! It needs lots of sun and it never did set up. Thats so weird because the clear coat you buy from the paint store, enamel and the activator, it dries like usually within 30 minutes. And base coat dries in like 5 minutes. So, anyway, I started thinking about it, and I said gee, why dont I just mix up my own clear coat and apply that just like "Fix it". So, maybe someday I will next summer. Because there is one spot on my car where the clear coat is damaged all the way through and sanding on it wont fix it. It needs to be filled.

Nevertheless, is it a bad idea to so wet sand OEM finish? well, if I owned a new corvette then no I wouldnt want to do that. but then again, most vettes dont have orange peel paint. and neither do most camaro's. My TL is nice but it has some orange peel. hmmm what to do.. And as I already stated I've even seen TL's that have not had any work done on them, and they have orange peel paint. So, I say learn how to do it. And go for it. You can't go wrong with educating yourself. I have only done this twice now. So you see how easy it is to learn? People have too many mental blocks. And I learned by asking questions and just doing it. And again I say, how long are you planning on keeping the car? 15 years? I sure hope not. I dont think in the amount of clear coat I took off will ever effect me. again, hit the high spots, sand slowly, check you work at intervals to see if and where orange peel still exists, use a block and keep you sand paper tight on the block, and use a water spray bottle to keep the water flowing. Then buff like theres no tomorrow. haha

Chad05TL

NBP is soft? what are you talking about? Clear coat is clear coat. We're sanding the clear coat dude. Clear coat on white or black or pink (like my underwear) is the same. Have you thought about this?

SweetJazz

Ha Ha Ha. You are too funny. TMI. Wrong forum for discussing your drawers. You can learn alot from powerflow. Clearcoat is not just clearcoat. Mercedes and Audi have some of the hardest clearcoats on the market. This means that the clearcoats are very durable but are a real pita to polish out. BMW jet black and Acura NBP are notoriously soft paints. They chip and scratch very easy but are much easier to polish out. Acura and Honda paint, in general, are very soft paints.

Again. You do what you want with your car. You are obviously a confident DIY'er but some average person is going to screw up their paint based on your "It's no problem" reasoning. Are you going to stand by your process? Please post a detailed DIY thread for wetsanding paint and stand by it. Check out my threads in the Wash and Wax forum. I stand by my methods.

PPLAPW

^

Chad05TL

oh I was just kidding about pink underwear. thats my weird sense of humor. But you said NBP is soft. So when I say clear coat is clear coat, i'm talking about clear coat on Acura's. The clear coat on Acura White pearl is not any different as the clear coat on Acura black. And yes I can do anything I want with my car. And thats right, there is "no problem".

Chad05TL

I just wet sanded and buffed my rear trunk today, just before I added the A-Spec emblem.

NO ORANGE PEEL HERE!!! Woot!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Looking good brother.

Hondaforlife954

Nice work! i just detailed my car and i think i need to wet sand the hood....would you do this on a the front plastic bumper?

Chad05TL

yes. I have already done my bumpers. I still have more area's to do though. Its a lot of work and TL's are large.
It took about 4 hours to do the back of the trunk. And I only used 2500 grit paper, but it was new, so it cuts better when new. 2000 would leave deaper scratches to buff out and that just makes the job longer and harder. But with 2500 grit you have to change your paper a little more often. But overall for black, I like 2500 best. Black just shows every little imperfection.

VQPower37

wow it looks great!, i would be so afraid to take sand paper to my paint

dwb993

iTrader: (13)

Looks great Chad. What about masking? Did you tape up the tail lights and license plate areas?

poormans_tl69

Wow nice job..you using 2500 grit thats some patience. I use 1500 then 3000wet. Its a litte faster but that fine how you are doing it..good job man

MidnightBlue07TL Type S

Looks great. I would like to point out to most people that a good detailing by someone who knows what they are doing will gain almost the same results with a lot less wear on your clear-coat. Chad you did a great job but most people dont have the skill set to do this. My TL has a spot on the passenger side ground effects that the dealership burned through into the paint. I am going to have to take the skirt off sand it down and repaint it which is not a really big deal as my dad has a "Home paint shop" where he paints motorcycles all the time. So I guess the point is that it is really easy for someone to lose their concentration for a few moments and then .....the way that you have done it splitting it up over a period of time is an excellent way to minimize those stray moments when your concentration lapses and the fact that it is your car and if you had gone to deep you could have re-coated it yourself.

Chad05TL

Just cover anything that you're afriad you may accidentally hit with the sand paper. Like, I put tape on the silver trim above the lic. plate. Plastic pieces you would want to avoid hitting. Including the Acura or TL logo. Clear coat can buff out, but plastics is not as easy.

Chad05TL

I agree with most things you said but I did not break up my efforts into doing a panel this month or next month because I have any problem with concentration. I merely have started with the worst panels first and worked them until I got tired. So I don't start anything I cant finish. Seriously, this is why the good paint jobs cost a small fortune. Because there is so much labor in wet sanding. And it also explain why those other paint jobs are so cheap and they are fast to get the car back to you. It's because they just masked off the car and sprayed it and then didn't finish the job. But I see even new cars that have a LOT of "orange peel".

And far as required skills, well, most people take heart in their own car.. but when it comes to a guy making $10 an hour to buff your car, well, there is no telling what you will get. Instead I have tried to detail out a process that someone gave me like 4 years ago. And what he gave me was FAR LESS than what I have done in this forum. This is only my 2nd car to wet sand. And I am not any specially talented person beyond just taking my time, thinking about what I am doing, and knowing "a" process that works. There are many different methods, but like which sand paper to use, but I say, just start off slow. And the worst that can happen is you will have to repaint. I actually, learned the base coat and clear coat process of painting 3 or 4 years ago during the telecom crash and I was only working contract work and 10 to 15 hours a week. So I had time. And now I only do this kind of work on a saturday morning. So, not getting in a hurry is important and I couldn't imagine doing the whole car at once. It would take at least a week and maybe 2 weeks of 8 hour days.

Another thing to avoid is the edges. dont sand the edges. And when it comes to buffing, just know the direction of the disk. You always want to let the pad roll OFF the edge, not ONTO the edge. Also, people think you have to set the buffer at a fast pace. I say use the slowest speed then bump it up to 1 or 2 notches above the slowest speed. Keep a water spray bottle handy to keep it wet. And let the Diamond cut #10 do the work. Burning through the paint is hardly even possible if you keep it wet and let the #10 cut do the work naturally. When I hear of people burning through paint, I'm wondering how the heck they do that? Edges maybe, but the center of a surface? You gotta be stupid and/or buffing it dry to burn through the surface of paint. So it takes a LOT more than just a MOMENT to burn through the whole clear coat and the base coat..

Chad05TL

Also for removing orange peel appearance in paint, I would NEVER use 1500 grit paper. 1500 will take Runs out of paint fast!!! Like in a few strokes, "Run's or paint drips" can be removed. That's way too fast and cuts way too deep for orangle peel removing. If anyone tries 1500 on black or dark colors, remember I told you not to do that. Even if you follow up with 3000 grit. Your net loss (in clear coat) is going to be greater than just using a fresh piece of 2500

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

I'm too scared to try this myself. Knowing my luck I'll just screw my paint up

Chad05TL

White doesnt really show many imperfections though. In fact, I hate to admit this, but I bought a white Trans Am once with a big scratch down the side and never saw it until 2 weeks later.

But anyway, what I should do is make a video. I need a digital recorder.

CCColtsicehockey

Wow this is amazing. You work is just brilliant. This is something I am scared of doing on my car. I am scared to use a power buffer period. I really need to have this done on my car. Maybe I will just pay someone.

dadon

wow, Im pretty good when it comes to detailing but I would never do this ..lmao great job though.