Before & after Meguiar's diamond cut & 2500 sp
 

Ok ya, I have to admit it. Some unskilled dealer painted my car from a lease and did a crappy job! They just put clear coat over the car and didn't color sand it. People today don't put effort into their work! They don't go the extra mile as if it was their own car. So, leave it to me to fix it!

So I had dull paint and "orange peel" appearance. I am not done with the whole car yet, but the hood is looking much much better.

Before
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/b4a1.jpg


After
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/b4a2.jpg

Before
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/b4a3.jpg

after
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/b4a4.jpg

wow! that looks great! good job.

I dont think the pictures really do me justice. But thanks!! All you can really see is around the light bulbs. but the WHOLE HOOD was like that. and the impression it left was not so good. But imagine it looking better all over the hood. The impression now is much better because of the large area all over the hood. What you are looking at is the reflection of the garage door opener.

wow thats awesome man. mine looks a little like the first pic. what did u use?

Mcquiers Diamond Cut.. Like the topic says.. And 2500 grit snd paper.. If you do it, dont apply too much pressure to the sand paper especially if you have black paint. And I bought a new rotory buffer. An orbital buffer will work, but will take longer.

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Cut-Co...7959284&sr=1-2

for the casual unskilled home detailer- a random orbital buffer is safer to use.
A rotary buffer will make fast work of the job = if you know how to handle it
but can also ruin a paint job in seconds too--be very careful to keep moving all the time

check out detailing tips in Off Topic link- wash and wax section
anything written by Patrick-ExcelDetail is from a pro who does a few to several cars every day with a UDM random orbital

Using a few different compounds will work faster than jumping to the super-fine 2500 grit- Finish the job with that after starting with 1500-1800-2000-2500 liquid compounds
All the major and minor micro swirls will disappear-
Note: thats for normal aged paint-- not this car with new paint- thats softer and needs less abrasives to level it
Looks good for a starting point to the entire car Chad!

go ahead and use 1500 on black.. I dare ya.

And I dont need any tips on this polishing. thanks anyway. but I didnt ask for any tips.

I think he was just trying to help out others that might try this .. wet sanding can get many a noob in trouble. :thumbsup:

I do a lot of work on my car with a D/A polisher but never tryed wet sanding... somehow seems scary to me, might not be thoe...

wet sanding is smoother.. it allows for sand particles to float away so it doesn't scratch more than the paper is designed to do. It's actually less "dangerous" than dry sanding. Wet sanding may be more even as well. Its best to apply even pressure while sanding. I picked up a fairly heavy 3m block so I just use the weight of it to sand and dont press. So the pressure on the surface is consistant. My last car I sanded was white and white does not show fine little scratches like black does. So this was almost relearning a process that is best for this car. So hopefully the rest of the car will go faster. Plus I was learning how to use a rotory buffer too. So, I took it slow until I could tell how the surface was going to respond to my effort. Now I know what I gotta do. but the first attempt yielded a few scratches that i still have not got out yet. Thats what 2000 grit paper and too much hand pressure in one spot will do for ya. So that just means you gotta buff on it longer. And hopefully you didnt scratch too deep so you can get it out.

My tips were meant for the general public chad- you already have your way

I would never tell a noob to use sandpaper!!!!-(chads new paint is different-needs the rough sanded out of it)
and you must use the special wet/dry stuff, on a sanding block, and keep it constanly rinsed in a bucket of fresh water... if you choose to do that method
(I've prepped many race cars for paint)

For the noob to detailing looking to clean off the paint and remove car wash scratches, leaving no swirl marks when done, use only liquids by hand or with a orbital buffer-
and different pads for different uses

Black cars are different and show every mistake- see DIY for more on that color
other ziners will find great info in the Wash and Wax section, use Off Topic link at top of page to get there

I wet sand with 1000 and 1500 all the time with no issues, but that more for taking nibs out of the paint than cutting down orange peel.

nice. great job.

looks sick

Chad, good job. Don't be surprised if your thread gets moved to the Wash & Wax section. If fits better there.

right.. Like a run in the clear coat.. yes.. I would use 1500 to sand it down fast. because there is a lot of material to wear down.. because of the big blob.. I had a white 97 SS that I painted the rear spoiler... It had a big run in the clear coat.. but I sanded it with 1500.. and it worked out fine. but it was white.

White is blinding to the eye... Its hard to see fine scratches in white... So.. it was easy to polish out.. Black however shows if you scratch your BALLS once or twice! my gosh.. Black shows Every... little.. glitch..

And FYI.. you've heard of base coat / clear coat paint jobs.. and you've heard of the traditional enamel paint jobs... well.. here you go.. clear coat IS enamel! So, yes, the base coat/clear coat process DOES require the same "color sanding" as Enamel paint. cool a? "color sanding" just means using fine sand paper to take out that fish eye or orange peel appearance. but its the same process.

The weird thing is that I used to think that base-coat/clear-coat was easier for manufacturing companies.. well.. after applying base coat, I agree.. base coat does go on near flawlessly.. however, the clear coat, aka clear enamel can still run. Maybe the reason manufacturers use clear coat enamel is because its less "fish eyed" or less "orange peeled" than color Enamel.. But, its still not perfect. It all has to do with the spray gun and how the top layer is applied.. But since I have never used Enamel in its raw sense, like color Enamel, then i really cant say why manufacturers started using clear coat.. especially since i have seen even new dodge ram trucks that are severly orange peeled.. I was amazed to see my boss pull up in a new truck and the paint looked like it had been redone. I was like, that looks like Sh!!!!! haha oh well..

WOW, thats a nice job. I too have orange peel and want to do this.
A few questions. What color pad did you use? and did u use only 1 color pad? or changed colors.
what RPM did you buff at?

Better yet, a DIY?

yes I did it myself. I started off with a lite 3000 grit sand. And just lightly sanded slowly until I saw very very little orange peel or very little of an unsmooth surface after I dried it. While your sanding the only way to tell if its pretty smooth is the sand paper will start to drag and grab real hard. Until then, then sand paper just glides over the surface pretty easy like your not even sanding. But trust me, it is. And you dont want to go to fast.. Other wise it will wear down too much too fast and create too many scratches and you might go down past the clear coat. And you don't want to do that.

Anyway! I started off buffing with a slow rotory buffer. I just bought this one to do this job. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90820

I used a wool pad that comes with the buffer! And you may find this shocking, but that with McGuire's Diamond Cut (#10 cut) will take the surface from a sanded surface all the way up to a high gloss. But if you want to go a step further, after you buff out the scratches, then buff with the foam pad that comes with the buffer, and use Meguiars swirl remover which is a #3 cut. http://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-M0916...xgy_auto_img_c
Or you can use the FINE CUT here. http://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-M0216...xgy_auto_img_b

There are a hundred different combinations. Wool verses foam pad and different compounds. So you just have to figure out what works best for you and your application. But for sure I would start off with Meguiars #10 cut and a wool pad and run it until its glossy. You can use an orbital buffer too, but I have a large amount of area to do and wanted it to go faster. The larger buffers also provide more stability in your hand than a drill with a pad on it. So, much less chance to hit an edge and have the drill torque away from your hand or hands. So there is no defined science or method you should use. You just have to experiment. But again, after the sanding, start off of #10 cut and wool pad. But switch off to a foam pad after you get a good shine going. Wool will only allow the shine to get so high.

Oh I forgot to add.. While your buffing, keep a water bottle handy because the #10 cut will have a tendoncy to dry up while you still need to buff more on the surface. So, add some drips of water to keep it fluid. Thats a thing I always do.

good info, now i feel confident to do it myself, so did u use a 2500 grit or 3000 grit, you say you used 3000 in ur post above but in ur title u sasy 2500.

what color is your paint?

Beautiful Shine!!! :thumbsup:

black with appx 4coats clear

well.. you probably have plenty of clear coat.. so thats a good thing. I would just start off with 3000. And use water of course and keep the surface as clean as possible. Meaning, rinse it every few minutes. As you sand, particles come off the surface and can get in the way. So, that is what you're rinsing away. You can try the 2500 if you think the 3000 is too slow. Bust if you only have the hood to do, or just one area, then what's the rush? But ya, black is the worst for hiding scratches. Also make sure you use a block. I just got a 3M sanding block at Walmart of all places. It's a pretty heavy block, so what I did was just use the weight of the block to apply even pressure. But I guess when I do the sides of the car, I cant use the weight of the block. But just try to keep the block flat and avoid applying pressure to one side or the other as you sand. Also, 2500 vs 3000. 2500 will add deeper scratches and will require more buffing. So 3000 may work slower, but the added time there will save you time buffing. So its a toss up. 3000 is safer though. slow and easy is best modus operandi until you figure out what works best for YOU. Then repeat the same process over the whole car, if it needs it. I'm still lazy. I have not done anything other than the hood on my car.. but that was the worst part. And actually, I need to hit the buffer on it again. With the polish remover, it contains a little bit of oil in it.. So, the oil can hide some fine scratches. And after a few days, I see where I need to hit it again. The #10 cut does not have any oils in it that stay on the paint and "makes it look ok".. So, that is what you really want. Because you want to see the surface without any fillers in the compound. So, when you polish it up with a microfiber polishing towel, all you see is the reflection of the clear coat. So, ya, you will need a polishing towel. You dont want to Dry Buff. All i use the compount for is working down the surface.. Dont expect the buffer pad to miraculously get rid of all the compound in the pad and leave the paint all perfect. I never buff that long. Thats too dry for me. I have seen people do that online but I dont hold it there that long. After I'm finished buffing, I just grab a thick tery cloth towel to wipe off the majority of the compound, and then finish the polishing with a microfiber polishing towel. I know, that may sound like I am using too much compound, but again, I mix a little water in there to keep it fluid so I can work it down over a period of time. The dryer it is, the more it will cut. And thats ok if you're not making any progress on buffing. But still , even if its buffing fast, it will still take a while to remove the scratches over a large area like 1/4 - 1/2 of the hood.

So its all about speed and how fast you think you can go without creating too much heat. you will just have to experiment with your car. Only 1 way to learn. And avoid the edges. You can hand polish those. But to be honest, I didnt encounter one edge hook and grab or any problem while doing my hood. And I was hitting the edges too. But again, I used a buffer that allowed me to use both hands, and Mcquires is pretty good stuff, and if the rotation of the buffer is going off the edge rather than Onto the edge, its also safer. That has to do with the direction buffer is turning. But you'll be fine.. Just jump in!

And dont panic when you see how dull it is after the sanding. And dont panic when you see scratches that look like they may not come out. Just keep buffing with #10. It will take it out. eventually. Use the wool to start off with.

ok, so can I buff with a wool pad at 3000rpm or should I go slower? Ill just use 3000grit to be on the safe side. Also, do I just apply the #10 and buff it in or do i apply #10 by hand and let dry and buff it out. some people of different ways. I know first hand that your way works so id like to do it your way. do you put the polish on the pad o squirt it on the car.

Start off with a minimum speed which is 1000 on mine. Then as I got comfortable with it, I bumped it up to maybe 1300 - 1500. Too fast and it will just toss compound around and make it messy. I scatter a little compound around on the hood, not the pad. Don't let it dry. Thats not the goal. keep it wet. Keep a water bottle handy to drip a few drips of water on it. The compound has a grit i it. If it begins to dry it will cut a lot more. which might be ok if you want to concentrate on one spot. but generally I keep it wet so it can move around with the buffer and let it do its thing rather consistantly. But not too wet. the buffer will just make a mess. haha But I guess some people would say I am using too much compound. But you know.. I don't care. I got a huge bottle of it. I let the compound cut and wear down the clear coat without taking a chance by letting it dry or dry buffing. You can put a little water and a little compound on the pad to get it wet. So the first rip, you dont do any damage but that surface is not THAT sensitive. Gosh. you have 4 layers and you *want* to wear it down. you're not going to burn through to the paint. Just keep the buffer flat and let it buff and keep it moving!. You can buff for 3 minutes or so and then wipe it off and see what it looks like so you can gauge your progress. I'm still fine tuning my process. But every time you change cars that are different colors, like from white to black, I realize that I have to be more careful and go slower with black.

thanks man, you've been very helpful!

your welcome

Its people like you that make an online forum enjoying. Most people would just say "Go look in the wash&wax section!"

thanx-

update: I've been slowly doing my doors and I will eventually work my way around the car, and its a big car, but just wanted to say that on the doors, 3000 grit is really too slow. In fact 2500 is a bit on the slow side. I went ahead and used 2000 and kept water on the surface with a 409 spray bottle filled with water. So, you gotta keep the water flowing and you must keep the block flat, otherwise you will put a fairly deep scratch in it. But it still wont go through to the paint, but it can be pretty significant in the clear coat. So then you'd have to sand and sand until you take it down far enough to remove the scratch. So after I used the 2000, I follow up with a brief application of 2500, then I hit it with a wool buffer and Mcquires Diamond cut #10. After I run the the buffer all over the door for about 10 to 15 miuntes, I switch to a Foam pad and still use the Diamond cut #10. That is important for black. Also, for a final buff at the end of the Foam pad duration, I wipe off residue and hand buff with a microfiber towel. My regular polishing towel was too rough. That will bring back a nice deep black. The wool pad will leave it hazy with still some scratches. I suggest waiting for wax. Go a few days and get it out in the sun and you'll see places where you missed. you can spot scrub those places with a small applicator pad and the diamond cut #10 and then buff it w/ a microfiber towel. Oh one more thing, make sure the sand paper is snug around the sanding block while you sand. Just hold it tight with your fingers. Otherwise what will happen, is the paper will not be too flat, and end up sand down in the grooves of the "orange peel" and you will think its smooth by looking at it. Then after you polish it up, you will see still some orange peel there. If that happens, you have to stop buffing, wipe off the #10 cut polish and start sanding again. I did that a few times. And its making it take longer to complete. I will probably post a picture to show what it looks like during the sanding process so you can see what it looks like when I have only sanded about 1/2 way down of where it should be sanded. Basically what it looks like at the 1/2 way point, is you will see dull/sanded high points and down lower toward the paint, you will still see shiny spots where the sand paper on the flat bock didn't get to. So, the idea is to sand it down until you don't see any of those little spots. And again, if the paper is not tight enough on your block, then the sand paper will "prematurely" get into the grooves and make it look flat because it was sanded.. but actually its still has an uneven surface which is what causes the orange peel. All this stuff you will figure out on your own when you start sanding and buffer. There really is no 1 set way to do it. Just whatever works best for you. And then finally after a day or 2, you can get a clean foam pad and use the Mcguires #3 cut which is a "swirl remover". But by the time you use the foam pad even with the #10 cut, I doubt there will be much swirls. I don't have a problem with swirls and I used the #10. But still, the #3 is actually a bit nicer of a finish. There is also so OIL in it, so it can be a bit deceiving at first. So again, give it a few days after the #3 application, and probably wash it too, for an accurate representation of the surface of the car.. then if it all still looks ok after a week of inspection, hit it with some wax. But really, the car should shine perfectly and as good as wax without wax. So, thats what you have to work up to before you actually wax it.

and yes its a lot of work. Fortunately, its been raining a lot in Dallas and my work is in a lull so I can have time to work on it.

Also it would be nice if we could edit our posts like up to 10 to 15 minutes after the post rathe rthan only 5 minutes as set by the administration. That way i can go back and correct my english. haha And plus I wont have to post 1,000 times in here. When was the last update to this website? Admin?

By the way, You don't really need that Fine Cut #2 that I mentioned that above. Just skip that comment if you will.. The #10 cut will make it nearly perfect on its own. (after wool, then a foam pad and a microfiber hand polishing towel). the only other you may desire is the #3 swirl remover. I have never used the #5cut or the #2 cut. I went from #10 cut directly to #3 and didnt use anything else.. And it looks great. And actually it looks 97% great after just using the #10. So, you dont need all that other stuff. So just add water and keep it wet while your buffing. Then as you want to stop buffing, let it dry up somewhat and take off the last bit with a microfiber towel to see how well it shines. With white paint, the microfiber towel is not so critical. but black shows the smallest of scratches that looks smaller than hair. Like maybe the size of a spider web. Thats what a wool pad or a non-microfiber polishing towel does on black. But you wont see that on white.

This baby is a dream. Takes it from a 2000 grit surface to a high gloss.
Diamond Cut Compound #10 - 32 Oz
http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Cut-Co...7959284&sr=1-2

cheaper: Diamond cut #10

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SQVGC

I'm not sure where the cheapest place is.

ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Megui...Q5fAccessories

One more comment about sand paper. So i was sanding a while on the 2000 because I thought the 2500 was too slow. Well, after a little while, the 2000 got to where it wouldnt cut very faster either. so, I picked up a new 2500 grit piece and it was cutting twice as fast as the 2000. So, as you see, each paper grit will go through cycles of course to dull. so, at times, even a 2500 or 3000 may cut more than a 2000. So, you're going to have to just use your own best judgement. when i switched to the 2500, I didnt want anything more course. So I am going to stick with the 2500 for starting off with, esecially if you have a black car. Anyway, always make sure you soak the paper for a good 30 minutes before you start grinding on your car, especially for the 2000 grit paper.
Final pics.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/1.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/2.jpg

SCCRRREEAAARRAACH!!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/3.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/4.jpg

Looks pretty bad below!!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/5.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/6.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/7.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/8.jpg


Hey its me!!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/9.jpg

damn you did a good job i gotta do this before the weather turns for the worse over here i mean wax/polish mostly i have a orbital buffer from Meguiars they have great products and are very easy to use

and i would be so scared to wet sand any car it looks like all the apint was removed in the pics lol thank god it didnt lol

btw, there is no wax on the doors. It's just clear coat.

Very impressive recovery. Good paint shops are becoming hard to find.

If possible, I would measure the paint thickness so that you will know how much clear you have to work with for future polishing.

when you say recovery.. the scratches was intentionally put in there. The only recovery I did was just basically a result frmo removing orange peel. But I knew in advance that the scratches would polish out, thats how you wear down the clear coat & get it smooth. So there wasnt anything accidental about it. =) but if you mean recovery from lack of orange peel, then ok.. thanks for the compliment.. but again, the scratches I did intentionally.