Atrain

This is what your connecting rods and pistons look like in your 3.2L TL.

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B051100.PDF

Let me tell you just by the photo, those are CAST hypereutectic (aluminum alloy)pistons and VERY week connecting rods. I strongly believe with more than 6-psi of boost and no intercooler that you can crack a piston ring land and/or bend a connecting rod.

There is enough static compression and rpm to do the damage even naturally aspirated. Believe me I have seen hypereutectic pistons on Ford 4.6L engines that had cracked rings lands from detonation and knock...no blower...no nitrous...no turbo. That was with less rpm and only 9:1 compression.

The bottom line is hypereutectic pistons allow for a much thinner piston ring land which makes the piston more brittle. It allows for a tighter piston ring package that allows better sealing. This lets engineers place the ring lands higher up on the pistons, closer to the hotter combustion chamber heat. Plus the "hypers" have a great thermal expansion rate that seals even when the combustion chamber is cold or hot.

It's not the material that makes the difference here, hypereutectic and eutectic pistons are great materials and will last forever under normal conditions. It's the small undercuts in the ring land and how small the ring lands are that will determine if they crack or break when you strike them with a deadly blow (i.e. knock or detonation).

"Think of a supercharger as a really expensive hammer used to smash stock pistons". - Ex-Ford engineer

Forged pistons do not work like this. A big advantage with forged pistons is they generally result in a more ductile material. This means the piston can take a higher level of detonation before failing. Are forged pistons, forged rods and a forged steel crankshaft indestructible? NO.

Will they take more of a beating and let you play another day? YES!

Forged pistons are not used in stock production engines due to two main reasons:
COST and SEALING. Forged pistons are sometimes double the cost of stock hyperpathetic pistons (as we call them). When you are buying 1 million eight hundred thousand pistons per year, cast hypers can save you lots of money!

Since a forged piston expands when heated they almost never seal the rings when cold. This causes blow-bye when the engine is under adiabatic efficiency but seals well when above adiabatic.

I'm just touching this subject here, we could go on for days about materials, metallurgy, engines, design, etc.

The bottom line is...I've broke a piston ring land before...I know what it takes to exceed OEM pistons. Some of you are burring your heads in the sand.

You are running 5-6 psi of boost without an intercooler, you have not upgraded your ignitions to add a hotter spark, you are running the stock heat range on the spark plugs and you know the TL uses parts not designed to handle extreme conditions.

When I supercharged my 4.6L T-Bird I had to consider many things but I had to understand that I could hurt the drivetrain.

The driveshaft went to Metal Matrix Composite from Dynotech Racing
The torque converter was a brazed fin unit from a Mercury Marauder with a 11.25" diameter.
The transmission was upgraded to handle the extra power and torque and I'm not talking about a Transgo shift kit or a line pressure changer. I'm talking about upgraded parts and PCM I/0's changes.
The engine was set to run cooler (via thermostat changes and cooling system upgrades), plus the electric fan was commanded to come on sooner.
I even installed an ACT sensor inside the plenum runner to monitor the supercharged air temps AFTER the intercooler. If the temps went beyond 170 degrees F, the EEC-V (pcm) removed 5 degrees of spark and added 5% more fuel.

If it continued to climb past 180 the PCM would remove even more spark and add more fuel. I'd feel the power loss but I would be able to play another day.

You guys are playing with fire...do not wonder why you get burnt.

Carry on...

A-Train

Allout

Points well taken.

There's some great stuff in those Acura Service News articles. Do you have access to those? I would love to read through past and future releases.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

i love how EVERYTHING you post you compare to your thunderbird. please, PLEASE do not do this. while you do provide general knowledge about cars, you are providing opinionated information regarding the J series motor.

people have been running blowers on the J motor way before the 3G TL ever existed. www.acurazine.com encompasses more than one car, so if you are looking for more information i suggest venturing to the 2G CL/TL sections because there is a plethora of information regarding supercharging the J motor.

I hate cars

When I first started reading I was going to reply back with the GN has cast pistons, rods, and crank and is reliable to 550hp on the stock bottom end. Then I saw what you meant. That rod looks plain weak. No meat near the big end. No meat around the piston pin with the oil control ringland right on top. Top ringland very near the top of the piston. Not good for boost but probably not the worst for the stock high rpm/low torque nature.

What's weird is I've only broken my forged TRWs. Not their fault because I was 17 and trying to run 25psi on pump gas and didn't know any better. Never broke the stock cast pistons for some reason. The forged JEs I have now seem bullet-proof though but it took some time to get used to the .004 clearance and piston slap for the first minute or two.

I hate cars

I should also add that the TL crowd for the most part seems to be less of a hands on crowd and would rather pay people to do installs. I've seen way too many posts like "my supercharged TL only makes 220rwhp" and it turns out to be low fuel pressure. My eyes almost pop out of my head every time I see a post like this. People have no clue what blows engines. I won't even floor my other car unless I have a laptop hooked up to it or at the minimum an audible knock detector.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Points are very well taken. Especially the hands off approach. How many people are just bolting on parts. The fact that there is still no ecu tweak after this many years is simply amazing. People like lookinco are the only ones I have seen who actually get it right from beginning to end. But it takes lots of knowledge, dollars and research.

There's a big difference between someone who wants to build the balls out of an engine to play with on weekends and someone who counts on a reliable ride so it'll get you to work.

There's also nothing wrong with making comparisons to his Ford. The difference between forged and non-forged applies to any internal combustion engine.

It would be interesting (but impossible) if stats could be generated on the people who are running blowers, their driving style, if they've had a catastrophic failure like this and how long it took.

The scenario here is that people don't keep their cars long enough to have this happen and some poor smuck inherits a ride that was modded, then put back to stock and sold to them.

Atrain

CleanCL,

So you're saying that Acura and Honda engines yield to different physics laws?

I have experience with many different types of engine and cars. I've been on the dyno more times than I have driven my RSX or TL. I have never supercharged a Honda engine, but it doesn't mean they are any different than a GM engine or one from a T-Bird.

I hate cars,

Exactly. Man that scares me. I love how some people throw in "well the guy down the street is running stock parts and making 500 HP with no problem".

Geez...think of all the money you could have saved Ford when they used forged parts (Mahle forged pistons, Manley forged rods, etc.) for the 2003-2004 Cobra.

I'm not trying to discourage anybody from supercharging their car, but there is no safety factor built into the way they are doing it.

I have stared at my FP gauge at times and worried. The worst was boost climbed to 10-psi and held steady and fuel pressure was dropping off slowly. Nobody seems to care about fuel pressure at all with the TL's. I guess it doesn't matter when you have a TL...only T-Birds.

A-Train

lookinco

Thanks for the info.

I wonder who have blown up their 3G supercharged TL. Maybe they could chime in. Good thing is most supercharged 2G/3G TL and CL on the forum seems to be holding up alright.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

Good read A-train. I blew my headgasket. I don't blame anyone but myself. I knew the risks associated with the HBP. My new motor is going in tomorrow. I'll be back in boost.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

good info.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

We are driving acuras not POS fords. Fords fail because they are poorly built crap, Put a S/C on your car or stop whining about supercharged Honda engines.

Bearcat94

So you're saying that Acura/Honda did FMEA and then spec'd the rods x-times stronger than necessary (at what add'l cost, I don't know), just in case somebody SC'd the TL?

Or maybe you've determined on your own that the forces imparted by the SC are less than the nominal force required to bend or break a rod. What amount of safety margin did you allow for?

I hate cars

Whoa, that's ignorance at it's best. Whether I like Fords or not, you can't argue they build some bulletproof motors. Take a look at the internals of a 03-04 Cobra and tell me an Acura motor is superior. In the real world of drag racing, Acura is a joke. They make a nice reliable fuel efficient motor but then again at only 258hp, most cars are reliable. I would not waste the gas to race a supercharged TL unless I just wanted a good laugh. Thanks for the entertaining post though...

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

This is exactly the mentality that atrain is talking about.

Thanks for the post atrain, very interesting.

Atrain

Hi speed,

Wow...that was educational. Thanks for the post. I used to talk just like that when I was 13 or so.

Tell you what...I'll never ever have to replace a timing belt with my 4.6L. So there

Bearcat94,

I bet the forces required to achieve the same results as in the photos from Acura are very close to what most supercharged TL's are seeing at WOT. All it takes is good knock or even detonation.

dan.....k,

Blown head gaskets are a good sign. You saved the bottom end.

A-Train

pohljm

Wow dont flame him! this guy really knows what he is talking about! all 15 posts and 28 years of experience are shining through

Snookynibbles

I have limited experience tuning my ’00 V6 Accord & ’06 TL. I did not buy them to squeeze more aftermarket performance, though for grins I eventually added CAI & exhaust while steering clear of forced induction.

As a die-hard Honda fan, I’m intrigued to listen to voices that provide a deep dive into the company’s corporate philosophy. From what I’ve gleaned, Honda is foremost a premier mechanical engineering company that’s the world’s largest engine manufacturer. I want to believe Honda attacks their design problems with their signature of technical elegance coupled with a spartan approach. I’ll bet they engineer motors to a point of failure using finite element analysis (FIE) that reasonably exceed ‘normal’ anticipated needs of the chassis, but not tremendously beyond that. Such a philosophy affords a lot that’s desirable: light weight, compactness, manufacturing economies, & reliability. And from a business perspective it would seem counter-productive to over-engineer an excessive level of mechanical robustness akin to say, their NSX, into what’s after all really an upscale family sedan.

Also, it appears COMPTECH purposely offers their superchargers for the J series motors with low levels of boost as a somewhat conservative approach, erring on the side of safety. Pushing the envelope w/o extensive engine & drivetrain redesign might be asking for trouble.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Atrain, I do find your posts very informative and I find you to be unbiased, although you do love your Thunderbird. And I'm not approving of the other post, but I'm sorry but FORD engineering is horrible in many instances.

Case in point: I have a customer with a 02 Mustang GT 4.6L. We had to do headers on that car. That is the most idiotic engineering I have ever seen someone come up with. It is nearly impossible to do that job. You have to take off motor mounts and jack up the engine and remove everything in site still to have to use 1 swivel socket and 1 swivel on top of that to reach some of the header nuts. This job takes like 10-12 hours to do. It's as if FORD designs something and then realizes they forgot some other stuff and starts adding stuff in to make it fit. And the headers I installed were Ford Racing Motorsports headers so those were from Ford too.

I just did BBK valve covers on this same car the other day and it was another disaster. Of course, the BBK valve covers are taller and it was dumb on BBK's part but this was another ridiculous job. You have to remove the wire harness, fuel rail, injectors, coils, and sundry electrical connectors, move A/C lines around, remove the tranny fluid dip stick which bolt is the worst spot. And that is just the pass side. You have about 1" between the valve cover to get your hand in there and the strut tower. Then BBK provides a stretch gasket and the ATF dip stick hits the valve cover so its very hard to get it back into place. Now it's part Ford's part and part BBK's but still the OE cover takes about 4 to get out and put back in just on one side. And then the driver side you have to remove the master cylinder. I'm sorry but that truly is Failure On Research & Development = FORD.

Another Ford vehicle: 03 Ford F-150. I think it had a 5.4 To do the spark plugs you have to remove the fuel rail, injectors, coils, etc and half the engine is underneath the firewall. Another 4 hour job.

How can FORD design a vehicle that is so difficult to work on when basic jobs like spark plugs and valve cover gaskets shoudl be so easy?

P.S. After finishing those valve covers I wouldn't even schedule a job the next day b/c I was so fed up with that Mustang that I didn't even want to look at a car the next day. And all I did was the pass side cover. The customer did the driver side and messed it up. He just didn't want to do the pass side.

Skwatoe

OK, an Acura motor is superior . That's a very Bold/Broad statement. What exactly are you reffering to about the "internals?"

The "real world" of drag racing? This nugget must have happened in the "fake world" of drag racing then:

2000 - The Skunk2 Integra was the first naturally aspirated car to run 10 seconds.....ever.

In the real world of any kind of racing not involving a circular track or a straight line, Ford is a joke. Who cares!!!

Good for you, gas is getting more and more expensive anyway. Save a buck where you can!

The bottom line is, you pay to play when it comes to any kind of Forced Induction, period. Ford and Honda/Acura are two totally different companies, with different philosophies, different target groups, different engineering methods, and different goals. To compare the two so broadly is useless.

mishar

Very interesting! Differences in car manufacturer’s philosophy, different goals and most of all different engineering methods. Can you tell us more about this, please?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

first off. this guy A Train... know his shit... just search some of his reponses. he doesnt talk much, but when he does, its educational..

i have only owned two types of cars in my life... fords & acuras. i think they are both some of the best cars ever. pro's and con's accross the board, surely, but fine engineering in different contrats.... my first car was a 92 explorer 4.0L V6.... 280,000 miles on the original drivetrain & block. thing ran like a champ, which inclined me to buy two more... 4.0L V6, and a 4.6L V8... never had a problem with those cars. i actually had more problems with my black 3.2L 3G TL.

can you put 500+whp on a honda motor? no...
can a ford provide better luxury accomadations? no...

pro's & con's.... but dont flame a-train. i asked him a question about spark plugs once, and his response was better than that of most mechanics i've asked.

XxAfG786xX

Honda/acura Ftw

I hate cars

By internals, I'm referring to the crank, block, rods, and pistons. The 03-04 Cobra motors are some of the strongest ever built. People are going in the 9s somewhat reliably on stock bottom ends. Some of the Buicks have done it too but it's a ticking timebomb at that level. No other car that I can think of can do what the Cobras can do with stock internals. I'm not exactly a Ford fan and some of my biggest rivalries have been with the Ford camp but you have to give credit where it's due. Some of you live in this world with your eyes shut and repeat over and over Honda is the best.

The honest truth is if I pull up to a Honda product at a stoplight, I don't bother giving it a second look. If a Cobra or some other American V8 pulls up next to me the adrenaline starts flowing.

Here's a bold statement... You put any of the fastest street legal FWD Hondas in the world beside me in a street race and I'll spank it. Ever seen a fast FWD car try and hook in the real world? If you want to talk non-legal cars, there's an 1,100hp Duttweiler built GN sitting in the garage for the tough races.

You need to realize the difference in a street car like mine that idles smooth, has great street manners, passes CA smog, and can be run on 87 octane if I choose to do so vs a full on gutted shell of a car that only runs on methanol and doesn't have a chance in hell of passing any kind of inspection

I hate cars

That wasn't a flame at the TL. It has a better interior and probably better value than any American car out there. It does a great job doing what it was meant to do. It's just that when talking drag racing, the TL isn't a competitor... But then again it wasn't supposed to be.

Atrain

Excelerate,

Yes the statement I made is true. The 4.6L SOHC and DOHC Ford engines use a timing chain and tensioners to operate the camshafts. Even the variable cam timing engines (i.e. 2005 Mustang) use timing chains and tensioners. Those engine last forever under normal conditions. There are Crown Vic taxi's and Police cars with 300,000 miles without even as much as looking at the timing chains.

Yeap headers on those cars suck to do. You know what short tube headers on a stock or even supercharged 4.6L Mustang are worth over the stock cast-iron exhaust manifolds? 5-10 HP at the most. Long tubes without cats are what make the difference on those cars.

I have a 2000 4.6L GT engine in my T-Bird. I put headers on that engine WHILE it was in the car. Was it hard? Yes. Did I cry about it? No.

Here is proof....the engine went in without headers...just stock manifolds. I ran 12.84 @ 109 mph with stock exhaust manifolds. I installed the headers and ran 12.74 @ 108 mph. Was it worth the work? No way.

Stock exhaust manifolds when the engine went in the car.

Really? I think that your mechanical skill level is lower than most of the technicians I have seen do such a job. I have replaced sparkplugs and coil packs on many 4.6L and 5.4L Ford F-150 trucks and I'll tell you it never took 4 hours.


SECTION 303-07B: Engine Ignition — 4.6L (2V) and 5.4L (2V) 2003 F-150 Workshop Manual

REMOVAL AND INSTALLATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ignition Coil-On-Plug

Material Item Specification
Silicone Brake Caliper Grease and Dielectric Compound
D7AZ-19A331-A or equivalent ESE-M1C171-A

Removal and Installation

5.4L and Natural gas vehicles


Remove the primary battery fuse cover on RH side.
Disconnect the bulkhead-to-upper intake manifold.
Disconnect the injection control sensor and the fuel temperature sensor, and position the wiring harness out of the way.
All vehicles


Disconnect the coil on plug (COP) electrical connectors.

Disconnect the eight fuel injector electrical connectors.
Remove the bolts and ignition coils.

NOTE: Apply brake caliper grease to the inside of the coil boots.

To install, reverse the removal procedure

SECTION 303-07B: Engine Ignition — 4.6L (2V) and 5.4L (2V) 2003 F-150 Workshop Manual

REMOVAL AND INSTALLATION


Spark Plug
Removal and Installation

Remove the coil on plugs. For additional information, refer to Ignition Coil-On-Plug in this section.
NOTE: Remove any foreign material from the spark plug wells with compressed air before removing the spark plugs.

Remove the spark plugs.

Inspect the spark plugs. For additional information, refer to Section 303-00 .
Adjust the spark plug gap as necessary.

To install, reverse the removal procedure.

This is right from the Ford service manual for a 2003 5.4L F-150. Nowhere does it mention removing the fuel rails to change plugs. That is pure aburdity that you would consider removing the fuel rails to get sparkplugs out.

The 4.6L cam covers are easy to install and just as every other gasket Ford uses on the engine, they are resuable. Two dabs of silicone sealant equivelant are required where the covers meet the front timing cover.



Do not bring this subject up again.

A-Train

Atrain

My original post was not to show you anything more than this, your engines are not designed to see the types of forces a supercharged or turbocharged engine sees. Can they operate under boosted conditions? Sure.

You will eventually hurt something in the engine or drivetrain. Disagree, pout, argue, cry all you want. I don't care what you say you think you can do.

None of you have any data to prove me wrong. Some have already come forward to say they have blown head gaskets and damaged parts when they were supercharged.

Most of you have no clue how to tune an engine. I'm sorry but you wouldn't last 10 seconds on a dynojet with 500 HP, 87 octane and no knock sensor. They would be pushing your TL carcass off the rollers by manual labor. None of you have done CONTROLLED tests and can say the engine is able to handle "X" amount of power. None of you.

I don't care what the "dude down the road with the nitrous oxide and supercharger" is getting away with. I've heard the crap over and over, GM...Ford...Mopar...Acura...I've heard it all. I've seen many of these guys on flat beds going home from the racetrack.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FORD VS ACURA. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
My statements were done as retalitations with a spitefull wise ass response to
Hi Speed. Never have I said Ford is better than Acura or the other way around.

Frankly they both suck. I own two Acura's and both have been in the shop way more than my T-Bird has ever when it was in it's 3/36,000 warranty.

1) Recently on the '05 TL the dealer replaced the serpentine belt tensioner since the bearing was no good.
31170-RCA-A02

2) Before that it was the dangling rearview mirror.

3) Then the fuel pump relay RECALL, back to the dealer again.
39794-SDA-305

4) Before that it was drivers side mirror that would rattle when the door was shut.
76250-SEP-A01ZA

5) My favorite one of course is the loose bracket under the dashboard, behind the glovebox.

For the 2003 RSX (45,000 miles) we had the following go wrong:

1) Bad drivers side audio speaker - replaced

2) CHECK ENGINE - Variable cam solenoid failed.

3) CHECK ENGINE - HEGO 1 failure

4) Drivers door switch failed

5) Drivers side window regulator failed (UP THANK GOD)

6) Passenger side door switch failed.

So don't tell me Acura engineers are better...they are controlled by the bean counters as well. Who are you Bullshitting?

A-Train

Atrain

I hate cars,

The 2003-2004 Cobra uses a STOUT engine. Cast iron block with a 4-bolt main and dowel pins. Forged crankshaft, forged Mahle pistons, Forged Manley connecting rods, ARP studs, etc. The deep skirt in the block provides massive amounts of strength.

600-800 HP is not uncommon WITHOUT engine failures.

Most of the cars in Ford's lineup did not get such treatment. The 5.4L Lightning has forged pistons but powder metal - fracture split connecting rods. They break...how about that?

You know why they have such strong parts?

They went WIDE OPEN THROTTLE on an engine dyno for 100 hours and then simply pulled the fuel out and added spark until the bean counters gave in. True story! To keep the Terminators out of the dealership with holes in the block, they decided the forged parts were worth the extra price.

The 2003-2004 Cobra DOES NOT use a Knock sensor. They are there and wired to the PCM, but they are turned off electronically. Forged parts are a must.

A-Train

Allout

What's the book time for a plug change on a F150 motor? Those hours are usually on the high side but are a decent gauge.

Honda motors are good for what they do. They're usually well machined and balanced fairly well. They spin nice but I've never known anybody to say that they are torque monsters.

FWD definitely is a challenge to launch too - weight shifts to the rear on acceleration which is oposite of optimal. It's definitely not a 1/4 mile car. With that being said, I've had some great rolling runs in my CL and have beat other cars with better stats. It's been a great all around car.

I've been more of a Chevy guy in my prior life but I really can't argue with anything A-Train has stated. I've always enjoyed driving a well built V-8. As they say, Torque is king.

I hate cars

I love torque too. My car is the exception to my own rule but then again it's one of the only V6s that make a lot of low end torque. If I didn't have the GN, it would be a large displacement V8.

Allout

The first car I learned to drive was a 383ci Mopar. Gotta love big blocks.

I'll say your V-6 is an exception. I've contemplated looking for a GNX myself. They continue to increase in value and are a great collector item.

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

I thinks it's a common sense to expect things to go wrong with the engine not meant for forced induction and no steps taken to reinforce the internals to cope with the added stress. Honda, Ford, Chevy, KIA???-Internal combustion is internal combustion and force induction is FORCE induction, the core technology hasn't changed for hundred years, so the rules of the game are still the same and same all across.

I thank you guys for raising the awareness! Just don't pollute the thread with who's among manufacturers best.

I hate cars

I agree. I don't think the original post was meant to put down the TL in any way. It did help me decide against a 100shot for my car.

You don't have to know a lot about a specific engine to know that it's not good for boost.

With a boosted motor you want the top ring further down from the top of the piston. The TL's is not. It is, however good for smog which I'm sure that was a consideration in the design.

You want more meat between the oil control ring and piston pin. The TL's doesn't have it. But, it's ok for a low torque/high revving motor.

The rod looking like a little twig.... Scary for anything but I have no idea what kind of piston speeds this thing sees.

The TL's rotating assembly looks light which is good for what it is designed for. It's just not made for boost. Nothing wrong with that.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I know the statement you made is true. I didn't deny it. Yes they have a timing chain. You had made a statement implying that Ford cars were better cause you didn't have to change a timing belt. I was demonstrating why Ford cars are poorly designed in a number of areas. Maybe they last as you say, I don't know, but it doesn't deny the fact that their cars are difficult to work on in a number of areas.

I know they don't make much power but the customer wanted shorty headers with long tube X-pipes. That is why I don't recommend them but the customer is right so that is what I did.

I don't understand who cried. Making a point and backing it up with evidence is not crying. If it is then you cry a lot.

Actually it took 3 hours. I was doing a whole tune-up, which took 4 hours, but the actual spark plug job took about 3 hours. And I did this job last year. I followed this DIY: http://www.f150online.com/forums/lin...parkplugs.html

And you have to remove the fuel line, not the rail. Sorry for using the wrong word. Oh yes and Alldata says it takes 2.9 hours and that is how long it took me; not bad for my first time. But being my mechanical level skill level is lower than most, and probably especially yours, that is probably too long.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instructions from that link:

Everyone has a different way of changing out the spark plugs, and everyone says there way is the best. I will not try to compete with everyone, because each method has its own advantages. For example, some people don’t take off the fuel lines, which takes that off the installation but it makes removing the coils more difficult if not nearly impossible. Using my method I try to make it as easy as possible and prevent breaking anything while in there.

PROCEDURES:

Always be sure to remove your negative battery terminal prior to doing any work on the truck! Part of the procedures requires some gasoline spilling into the engine, as well as many points where a metal tool could come in contact with the body and an electrical source causing spark or worse, fire or personal injury. To avoid any such disasters, it is much easier and safer simply to remove the negative terminal prior to any work being done. Also, as a caution, do not over torque the spark plugs or the bolts attaching the coils to the head. Unfortunately I did so and ended up making the project much harder when I snapped a bolt off that held the coil to the head. Remember that you will always do much more damage by over tightening a bolt too much then you would by not tightening it enough..

Using your 10mm and 5/16" sockets, remove your throttle body cover. This will give you better access to what you are working on. Also, I found it much easier to remove the bracket attaching the power steering pump for easier access to the plugs. This bracket is attached with three 5/16" bolts, and can be dangled out of the way, as it connects to one of the vacuum lines.



Removing bolts for power steering fluid reservoir

Using your 5/16" socket, remove the two bolts attaching the fuel line to the head of the engine. Once sockets are removed and set aside, pry the fuel line CAREFULLY away from the fuel injectors. Use caution to prevent damage to the injectors and the o-rings around the injectors. Beware that some gas will spill out when you remove the lines. Because of this, smoking or having an open flame (or even a hot trouble light, etc.) while working on the spark plugs is a definite do not do! If you ever want to upgrade to better injectors, now would be a good time to do so, you can simple pull them up to remove them from the engine.
Pry the fuel line up and out of the way as far as you can without bending or breaking the line.
The coil’s are mounted with 7mm bolts, in between the injectors. If you aren’t sure which is which, the injectors are orange and have blue o-rings, the coils are black and typically have yellow sticker son them (see below picture). Depending on the location of the coil, you may find it easier to use a univeral joint or a series of extensions to loosen and remove the 7mm bolt. After loosening and removing the bolt, you can unplug the electrical connector from the coil, and pull the coil out of the head.



Removing the coil from the head. (A) Fuel injectors, (B) Coil

After removing the coil, you can begin work on removing the spark plug. I find it to be a good trick to use to blow some compressed air in the hole or vacuum the hole out, to loosen any trapped dirt and prevent it from dropping into the engine.
Because the spark plug sits so recessed in the head, it is a good idea to attach a 6" or 9" extension to your spark plug socket. You may need more extensions so make sure you have enough prior to starting the project. It is also important to note that the spark plug does not sit perfectly vertical, it is at an angle, facing the rear of the truck. If used properly after removing the spark plug, the spark plug socket should hold on to the spark plug, allowing for easy removal. (see below picture)



Spark plug being held by spark plug socket, after removal

Once you have removed the old spark plug, it is time to prep your new spark plug for installation. This involves gapping the spark plug and placing anti-sieze into the threads. To gap the spark plug, use a spark plug gap tool (can be bought for about a dollar at any auto parts store), and slide the spark plug along the tool until you reach the desired gap measurement. For the F-150’s, the recommended spark plug gap is between .052 and .056 inches. You can also use a feeler gauge for a more precise measurement. You should place some anti-sieze on the threads to not only make it easier to remove next time you do the plug, but also helps keep the seal better then without anti-sieze, and prevents rust from forming in the head.





Setting the spark plug gap and placing anti-sieze on the threads

Once your spark plug is prepped, it can be installed. Unlike some spark plug jobs, reinstalling the spark plug is just as difficult as uninstalling it. Reason is you can’t just put the plug back in the spark plug socket and reinstall it. If you do so, the spark plug socket will grip on to the plug, and you won’t be able to get your socket out. The method I used was placing the spark plug in the spark plug socket slightly, but not into the bolt portion of the plug. By just placing the plug in deep enough so the socket won’t drop the plug, you can get the threading started, but remove the tool after a few turns with the socket. After starting the threading with the spark plug socket, switch to the standard 5/8" deep socket and torque down. Because the standard socket won’t grip on to the spark plug, you will be able to pull it away from the spark plug after tightening it down.
After the plug is installed and tightened down, reinstall the coil, reconnect the electrical connector for the plug, and reinstall the 7mm bolt. Repeat procedure for the following plugs.
Some plugs you will find are easier to replace then others. As mentioned previously, I had to use several extensions with a universal joint to safely remove the rear spark plug.



A variety of extensions and universal joints may be needed to access the rear most spark plug.

Once all spark plugs on one side have been replaced and all coils are bolted down, you will need to reinstall the fuel line. To do so, carefully place the fuel line into position over the fuel injectors and snap over the injector o-ring. Secure with 5/16" bolts that were removed previously, and visually inspect for tightness.
Repeat the same process for the spark plugs on the other side.

Funny, it's interesting that everyone says to install the aftermarket valve covers when the engine is out of the car b/c it takes so long to install, esp the BBK's. Now the stock valve cover gaskets probably would have taken about 3.5-4 hours, but still that is a long time to to do valve cover gaskets. And that still doesn't disprove that the engine is about 1" away from the strut mount and those rear studs are difficult to get at, along w/ the fact that the driver side you need to remove the MC. And I wasn't referring to the OE gasket. As I said it was BBK's gasket supplied which is a stretch gasket supplied w/ compression stops and new allen bolts. Again it was part BBK's fault but also poor design on Ford's end.

I don't know who you think you are but you're certainly not in any position of authority over me so why don't we agree to disagree, and why don't you not bring the subject up again.

Atrain

Excelerate,

You need to look at all this in a perspective that you are trying to get people to buy items from you. I call you a "tool". This is the main reason I did not buy a sway bar from you.

You have already shown me how you are trying to win over your fellow TL'ers by challenging me. I really do not care, but I will play your game.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You take things back now like,

"Another 4 hour job"...yet now you say 3 hours. Dude it takes 30 minutes...that's it. If you are taking longer to due a "full" tune-up on a 4.6L (ANY 4.6L Ford engine) than you have a blue wheelchair sign hanging from your rearview mirror.

Fuel rail...wait no that's not what I meant...ummm...fuel pail...no...wait...

Full tune-up....Ok folks listen up. There is no DISTRIBUTOR on the 4.6L. There are no spark plug wires on the truck you mentioned, there is nothing to change but the spark plugs. You do not have to set timing nor do you need to adjust the valves. No timing belt to change either. So besides the easy to access fuel filter, WTF are you talking about? TELL ME!

Give up...you are a joke. I tried to be nice here but I have to put you in your place. You are just like the rest of the so called "preferred vendors" that sell useless bogus parts to owners.

Most are overpriced and untested by yourself.

A-Train

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

A-Train, to be honest, I even prefaced my initial post with words of kindness, "Atrain, I do find your posts very informative and I find you to be unbiased, although you do love your Thunderbird. And I'm not approving of the other post" and yet you attack me as if I wronged you personally. Why is it your experience/opinions count more than others. In this thread you have gone from an informative member to an outright e-punk. What does my opinion on Ford engineering have to do with selling parts? I messed up on the word of fuel rail with fuel line? So was I totally wrong? And ALLDATA says it takes 2.9 hours to do spark plugs on that truck; so now ALLDATA must be less intuitive and capable than you? Give me a break. What I see in this thread is you being full of yourself. And who said anything about spark plug wires. In my initial post I said remove the coils. I don't know what you do but a tune up consists of plugs, wires (if they have it which the F-150 5.4L doesn't), PCV valve, fuel filter, oil filter and oil change, topping off of fluids, air filter, tire rotation, etc.

So, I know you think you're tough behind your keyboard typing in Thunderbird facts but why don't you get over yourself and stop being a prick in this thread b/c you have done nothing but attack ppl b/c they disagreed w/ you. Just FYI you aren't perfect and you are certainly not the epitome of knowledge. Other ppl do have knowledge, skills, and opinions and just b/c they differ from yours doesn't make them wrong.

"I tried to be nice here but I have to put you in your place."

LOL. Just b/c you're knowledgeable on Ford Thunderbirds and superchargers doesn't give you the right to put ppl in their place, although you never put me in my place in this thread. All you did was demonstrate your narrowminded, belligerent attitude towards anyone who doesn't agree with you. You are what I call an e-punk - someone who types behind a keyboard and thinks their macho b/c they would never do so in person.

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

Lol, you guys seriously need to chill and post on topic or not at all, this place ain't a Lovefest. Btw, I love you both

pohljm

go to your corners and wait for the bell

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I would just prefer a mod close this thread b/c I would rather agree to disagree. This guy has just reverted to berating ppl than providing informative posts. I tried to be civil and give my opinions/experiences but that didn't work. He took it to a personal level. So just close this please before it becomes something more than it needs to be. I have better things to worry about that A-train's posts.

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

One of you has to be a man and stop this bullshit, no need for thread closing really!

You can still contribute but on topic, c'mon guys, both of ya can do better than that

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I will be the better man. I will not post in this thread anymore. I thought maybe closing it and starting a new thread would be a better idea.