I hate cars

I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. I'm looking at a 12.2" rear BBK for the TSX that simply relocates the stock caliper for the larger rotor.

If I remember right, the front BBK for a TSX will interchange with a 5at TL.

Anyone know if this rear kit will work on the TL?

KB1Spec

iTrader: (4)

Umm.....Rotora have rear BBK

I hate cars

I have the Rotora 13" front kit. I found a rear kit for $275. 275 is much better than $1,500.

godfather2

i thought stoptech and ksport were the only rear bbk options for tsx?

I hate cars

There's another very cheap 12.2" rear kit for the TSX using stock calipers. It's exactly what I want.

Does anyone know if the TSX rear kit will work on the TL?

phee

iTrader: (5)

should work. whats the diameters on both?

CSWBiggs

i don't think that the will work...

iirc...the TSX doesn't have drum ebrakes whereas our TL's do...on the TSX the ebrake is cable activated on the rear caliper itself...

i could be wrong...not likely matt!

-Jason

I hate cars

That sucks. My first thought was how bad do I actually need the e-brake but I'm not going down that road. Not on a nice car like the TL.

binhsterbinh

Searching the Honda V6 forum, I found that it's entirely possible to do this. What you do is use the 1st generation Honda Pilot/Acura MDX rotors with a relocation bracket. Paul (NVA-AV6) can fabricate this bracket for us. When I had my front caliper brackets made to accommodate RL calipers, I asked Paul about the rear caliper brackets and he said its entirely possible as he's made ones for the 2003-2007 Accord. Since the rear knuckles are different between the 2004-2008 TL and the 2003-2007 Accord, Paul would need an actual 3rd gen TL at his place in Virginia to do the mockup on for the custom bracket.

If we can find someone in Virginia that is also interested, he can machine multiple rear aluminum, brackets and we can all be on our way to upgrading our rear rotors.

FYI, the 1st gen Pilot/MDX rotors are 313mm(~12.3"). An upgrade of of 31mm(~1.2") in diameter over our stockies (stock is 282mm(~11.2")

I hate cars

Wow, that's very good info. I'll PM Paul and see what we can come up with.

CSWBiggs

hope you plan on installing an adjustable proportioning valve :P

-Jason

binhsterbinh

Increasing the rear rotor diameter will help bring the brake force proportion back closer to stock as I hate cars already has a 13" BBK in the front. Since he'd be reusing the OEM rear calipers, the main change here is the clamping leverage being increased as they're now clamping further out from the center. It's been years since I've taken physics, but it would appear that this would be simply making up for having large front brakes; therefore, proportioning valve would be irrelevant unless you want to get down to the exact proportioning percentages.

I hate cars

That's what I'm hoping for. It's a shot in the dark but it should bring the bias rearward. The goal is to break even with the 13" front kit. If I get just a little more rear brake bias than stock, that may be ok. I can make fine adjustments with pad material.

I plan on getting some new baseline tests with the stock brakes. Then some more tests with the 13" kit and finally with the front and rear kit combined. I'm only talking about one stop stops, not getting into fade resistance.

My only goal is to retain the stock one stop stopping distances and to greatly reduce fade over many stops.

I'm afraid to do a prop valve because I'm unfamiliar with how the EBFD works on this car. Worst case scenario, if there's too much rear brake bias I'm only out $275.

I hate cars

I meant to add that with 100lbs of audio equipment on the rear axle it makes me feel a little more secure about going larger on the rear. I should have some safety cushion there but only time will tell.

Inaccurate

For what it's worth, I can add my experiences.

As you know, the TL Diet has my car's ass-end superlight weight. As I have progress with the diet, and watching the brake's reaction along the way, I can say that in general the brakes are *not* sensitive in regards to bias. And, I do hit ABS often (100 down to 60 with abs engaged).

There are times when only the rear brakes lock-up (engage abs only in the rear). If I brake suddenly while in a curve or turn, I can upset the front/rear weight transfer and cause only the rear to engage ABS. The rear end will attempt to slide out, but it seems the VSA must be taking over . I just know that I have never had the tail get out of shape.

Over the past month, after I have taken off that additional 68 lbs, I have had the rear brakes engage ABS before the front brakes while going straight. But again, it appears VSA must be helping as I never had the rear-end to completely kick-out. At the worst, it feels like the rear end kicked-over approx 6 inches before it magically (vsa ) straighten up. And, it straighten-up immediately within approx 3 seconds. This was a 80-40 mph episode.

binhsterbinh

So would introducing a larger diameter rear rotor will improve clamping leverage. That's settled; however, the question remains whether it'd actually make a substantial difference if the rear is already going into ABS already before the front brakes in straight line stop (due to weight shifting forward causing back end to lift).

Inaccurate, are you stock or are you using a big brake kit?

Inaccurate

I am completely stock, even still have the original oem pads at all four corners.

However, I am very much *not* stock weight wise. I have 700 lbs removed from my car. A lot of that is removed from the rear half of the car.

Even with my rear-end being extremely light, my ABS works fairly evenly (front and rear balanced) under most conditions. I was just trying to point out that on rare occasions when the braking bias is incorrect, the car seems to handle it gracefully.

I hate cars

This is the question...

With ABS I would ASSume bias is not as important as without. However I've noticed that once ABS is engaged such as cornering and braking at the same time (locking the inside front tire) braking pressure to all corners is reduced. It seems like the best bet is still to have all 4 lock as close to the same time as possible. I've tried it with the VSA off which supposedly switches it into 3 channel mode and in certain conditions it actually seems to help. I've posted before that averaged with over 5 stops each with plenty of cool down time in between to eliminate fade as a factor I can outstop the ABS by a significant margin. I have it on the home computer but I believe I beat ABS from 60mph by over 15'.

binhsterbinh

I'm tempted to buy the 04-08 TL Racing Brake rotors along with ET500 pads instead. Price out the door is like $210 when you build the rear combo with pads to get free shipping and discount. Or I can do same rotors with ET300 for about $180. The Racing Brake rotors are very high quality from what I read. They also come powder coated in the visible areas that are always rusty. In addition, I can pair with Racing Brake pads (ET300 or ET500) to have matching rotor/pad brand which should be the best stopping combo. They don't offer the curved vein rotors for the rear, but I think that straight vein will fit our cars just fine.

If I were to do the Pilot/MDX rotor setup, I'd be using a Power Slot, ATE, Raybestos, Brembo blanks, or Centric rotors. I can still pair ET500 pads to this setup as well.

Both options sound tempting to me. The 04-08 TL Racing Brake rotor/pad combo would definitely be cheaper and faster though. A bracket to fit the Pilot rotors would likely in itself cost about $120. Then add $150 for rotors and $70 for pads. We're looking at about $340 all said and done.

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

Excellent question I hate car, I am also in the same situation. For a while I was researching a cheapest alternative way to make to upgrade my rear brakes and there is not so much info about it.

Thank binhsterbinh for that good info and I will search more in Honda V6 forum, hopefully I will find some answer about this one.

Anyone in Virginia that are interested in to upgrade their rear brakes go to Paul and you would do a big favor for all aziner. If Paul mockup on for the custom bracket for the rear brakes for the TL I would f#cking buy it.

I hate cars

I don't know how I didn't see it the first time. '03-'07 Honda Accord rear BBK $275 12.2" kit.

Does anyone know of a reason these won't work?

binhsterbinh

The Rear calipers themselves on rockauto dot com show that they are the same between the 01-03 CL, 99-08 TL, and all Honda Elements. A hunch tells me the knuckles are going to be similar...I'm checking with Paul to see if we absolutely need a 3rd gen TL to roll to his place for the mockup.

binhsterbinh

03-07 Accords have a different knuckle. They use a smaller caliper with a 10.8" rotor if I'm not mistaken. Paul confirmed himself that the knuckles are different in one of my PM's that I had with him.

I hate cars

My head is about to explode. It may just be easier to buy a Rotora rear kit.

The TL and Accord and MDX have different part numbers for the rear calipers. It would be nice if the difference in spacing were taken up with the caliper but I suspect the part number difference is due to the differences in piston sizes since all have the same front brakes.

binhsterbinh

Pauls response:

Trew

iTrader: (1)

FrankenTL, FTW!!!

I hate cars

I just PM'd Paul again.

I see two or three solutions.

One is to use the MDX rotors, stock calipers, and relocation brackets and lose the e-brake. I'm still undecided on this one.

Use the above but buy the necessary hardware to use the larger drum parking brake. This would probably put you near a normal rear BBK in cost, probably not worth it.

I just PM'd Paul about buying a set of large rotors from one of the normal rear kits and having brackets made for the stock calipers. The only problem I see with this would be if the aftermarket kits delete the drum parking brake and incorporate it into the caliper.

CSWBiggs

y go through all of this hassle...for a solid rear rotor?

track conditions with track pads will warp the piss out of the solid rotors....even slotted and drilled sucks dick...

find a solution that will atleast give you a vented rotor...

the rotora kit is of killer value...

2 piston fixed caliper, on a what i belive to be a 330 x 30 vented rotor!!!!

trust me...to loose an ebrake is a sad thing...on some track and canyon conditions i use my ebrake to adjust the cars attitude...especially if i'm in a slight understeer situation...a quick jab with the ebrake will help upset the weight distribution enough for me to get into a much more neutral balance...

just my thoughts...

-Jason

I hate cars

That's a very good point on the solid rotor. I have 0 experience with solid rotors in racing conditions. I didn't know they still put them on cars until I bought the TL. I actually laughed in front of the salesman when I saw them. My bike has 8" drilled solid rotors....sad.

I agree on the e-brake, don't want to lose it for many reasons. I have to say I've never adjusted the attitude with the e-brake but this is the first FWD car I've tried to go fast in. You drifters lol.

Here's the thing. I don't want to kill the front to rear bias and increase stopping distances over stock. I still don't have a solid answer on if the Rotora kits compensate for the larger rotors with less overall piston area. I guess my goal would be to keep stock braking leverage so it doesn't become front bias (more than stock anyway). Same with a 13" rear kit. That's significantly larger than the 11.1" stock rear rotors. I do have a bit more weight in the trunk and the 13" kit for the front. But even if it has the stock piston swept area it's going to be a little rear bias with the extra leverage of the 13" rotor. I don't want to install an adjustable prop valve on my daily driver because this thing has to get me to work first and foremost and I look at it as an extra failure point.

I remember your front brakes but do you have the rear kit also?

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

I aint bother to read but here are some links
http://www.fastbrakes.com/product_p/...0rear%2012.htm
http://www.fastbrakes.com/product_p/...0rear%2011.htm

I hate cars

Thanks but it's starting to look like the only "right" way of doing this is with one of the Rotora kits that use a "real" rotor and not this solid junk. I just wish I could find a 1pc rotor to knock costs down.

Opel

i quickly scanned through the thread and not able to absorb much from it right now since im in a whoooohoooo mood (its 5:15 am lol) , but here's a one piece rotor that u wont regret buying, whether for the rear or the front

http://brakeworld.com/catalog.asp?pa...ONT%20CALIPERS

and heres the company's site

http://www.disc-italia.com/

i have these rotors in the front for the past 2 years, and there's nothing that can compare, no powerslots, no rotoras, no powersluts, no powerwhores, none of these "power" rotors, ZILCH!!!!

the pad friction area barely has a mark on the rotors for the past 2 years!

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

I hate car why didn't you buy the 14" rotora bbk instead the 13" and get the 13" for the rear, I know its very expensive and overkill but I think that the only way that doesn't kill the front to rear bias as you stated.

I hate cars

Because I'm waaaay too poor for that.


So the 13" front kit just came in.

For now, until next year's tax return I was thinking about leaving the stock rear rotors and installing these to bring some of the balance rearward again.

http://rpgproduction.rpmware.com/cob...1/g-53534.aspx

I'm not sure exactly how much of an impact they will have but I doubt they would make mine too rear happy.

CSWBiggs

lol...

matt you are too damn funny fool

putt the rotoras on and shut up and drive like a mad man....

don't think too hard...drive and than judge..than make corrections from there...dont get too ahead of yourself...y do u think i stopped at just doing the fronts only...remember i havent' even upgraded swaybars...the kit runs fine on 5 at with the abs on...though i think i've only hit abs once through the crest...shut off the vsa and enjoy!

-Jason

I hate cars

The voice of reason lol.

I tend to worry too much but I may be going to Willow finally and I need to have it perfect: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-97/kit-handles-better-761789/

I hate cars

Just installed the 13" Rotora front kit. I'm thoroughly impressed. Unfortunately I changed two things at once, the thin DOT 5.1 fluid and the brakes.

I need to bleed them again tomorrow, pedal is a little soft but I ran out of time tonight. Still though, modulation is better than stock even with the air in the lines. I can't wait to see what they feel like when properly bled.

I'm going to write a full review later but I think I will be ordering their rear kit after such a positive experience.

Still going to try an aggressive rear pad with a quicker torque rise. Oh, and the really crazy thing is the fronts run cooler than the rears now.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

did you get a quick bleeder?

I hate cars

Nah. I bench bled the calipers to get the old blue fluid out and the 5.1 in. I used a syringe to get as much of the old fluid out of the reservoir and did a sort of 3X drain and fill. Of course, you can only get a little over half the fluid out. Then I let them sit there and gravity bleed once the brakes were installed. Once I had filled the reservoir another two times I had the girlfriend help me bleed them the old fashioned way by pressing the brake while I worked the bleeder. I usually bleed, go out and hit ABS a few times and then have a ton of bubbles the next time I bleed. I only had time to hit ABS but haven't cracked the bleeders open again.

binhsterbinh

The 2nd go around is very helpful after bleeding the first time. My pedal was like a spongue until I did the 2nd go around after activating the ABS. I almost think I need a 3rd time to just make sure.