Yup, I've been the first type s to do a couple things, so I figure hey why not be the first type s to go for tunning. After dyno'ing my car for the first time and realzing that all my mods have been cancelled out by my stock ecu ... IT IS TIME FOR TUNNING

FIRST STEP
Greddy Ultimate Boomsland PNP Harness
http://www.boomslang.us/ultimate.htm
(NOTE: IT IS AVAILABLE FOR THE TYPE S NOW)

Anyone knows which I need boomslang offers a couple options - air & water, knock & water, knock & air and dual knock?


SECOND STEP
Greddy Ultimate Unit

THIRD STEP
Tunning Appointment

FOURTH STEP
1/4 Mile

Blusap aka 04 accord, you ever gonna e-mail me that file you got inside your ultimate, I am willing to pay for it

 

^^dont worry about the options, there are no such things for our cars. they carry one and only one harness for our cars, well besides auto and manual.


remember that your only going to be able to tune the a/f only. if you want more control, a/f, ign, vtec.... i would look into the blue version. the ultimate will do you fine though, even if you decide to SC and boost 4-5psi. if you plan on boosting more than that, then ignition timing plays a crucial role. ive been getting by with just an a/f tune going over a year and a half now.

ill try and get you my map over to you, but it really wont do you any good if your tuning NA. i dont have my hands on a laptop right now

 

ok so wait a second, the blue is more compatible to allow a/f, ign and vtec versus the ultimate or which should I run... chances are I may never run boost because I may just get something boosted as a second car

 

Good look with this...

Yo do realize Hondata stated they have no plans to release a N/A tune because they couldn't get any reasonable gains from it...
The discussion also followed that they tried to screw with timing and VTEC and only lost power in doing so, at least as I read the thread/feedback.

Now you're attempting to do the same with a reverse engineered harness, a piggyback, and a "hopefully" experienced shop that has never tuned a TL before.

That being said, you're attempting to what already been tried by true R&D proffessionals... with a less than optimal implementation and tuning strategy.

What's the definition of insanity? Repeating the same process over and over anticpating different results.

At best, you get a small amount of HP you never had, at a very high cost.

At worst you get a blown engine.

You guys gotta remember:
- Dyno charts ain't worth what thier printed on. If you think every mod you buy adds the amount of power you see on the marketing dyno plot, you're expectations are too high, and your last dyno proves it.
- Mods don't "stack up". 10 HP CAI, + 5HP P2R, + 11 HP greddy does not = 26HP. It's purely a function of flow. Installing one free flowing mod may gain 90% of the available power gain, and the other mods do nothing... It's all about how fast the engine can ingest and expell air.

The TL-S comes with a free flowing exhasut, larger bore engine, OE free flowing intake, lightweight cams... It's about as tuned as you can get. Bolt ons that further unrestrict a rather free flowing system yeild little gains.

I wish you all the luck in the world, but the #1 Honda tuner decided against doing this becasue of the results they got, I highly doubt you're gonna do any better.

All that said, I know you love your car as much as Ilove mine, and I hate to see you do something bad to it.

 

Kennedy is correct, Hondata did mention that they had issues with the N/A tune because it yielded no gains, and some tunes yielded a loss (lowered Vtec engagement).

You have to understand that with these V-6 motors they are already running at nearly full capacity, getting 260whp on an N/A 3.5L motor is a lot.

 

Where is the thread with your dyno? I saw Kosstick's and I can't find yours.

 

dyno sheets posted on this thread - https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172646

here are the sheets again



^focus on the 13.5:1 air fuel ratio
kennedy I understand your reasoning, but I am not going for a full tune job... it is impossible lacking any ecu reflash and what not, I simply want to improve my air fuel ratio... if I can run lean and get 250 to the wheels... slightly richer will get me the 10-15% more power to the wheels

ps. kennedy I hate say this but... last time you were wrong about accuratein doing fmic... so how I know you right about this

 

godspeed to you my friend.... i personally, wouldnt start doing this crap to my $40k car, until it was past its warranty, and only worth about $10k... theres a place on Long Island, called Mustang Magic.. one of the best places for the local mustang guys...

a shop next door to SpeedWorld, guy had a N/A cobra.. he brought it there for tuning.. they blew the motor, and they had a little sign that said

"NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMANGE TO DRIVETRAIN, GEARS, ENGINES, TRANSMISSIONS FROM TUNING/DYNO"

I say, if you are looking for the ultimate bang for the TL.. wait for comptech to release a S/C with an ACM compatible to the J35 TL-S... $5g's.. yes... reliable.. yes.. warranted... yes

 

Ha ha... sure.
Eric and his ass dyno have proven a supercharged FMIC is a good idea...

No pre/post dyno
No pre post IATs...

Just "it feels quicker"...

All that's proven to me is that you can bolt a SC to a TL... an exercise in physics I could even understand. Does it do anyhthing... Looks like we'll never know.

 

pre/post dyno is critical for comparision and analyzing... thats all its there for..... Also, since 04accordcpe is J32, his base map may not apply to you

and like others said, i think our engines are tuned out to the maximum, without some serious block work (pistons,rods,bore,p&p.. whatever) you probably wont yield much N/A gains

 

Agree with the above two posters.

I've been playing with cars and racing motorcycles for a long time. All japanese motors as well.

These things are already pushing crazy numbers out of whats available.

This car (Type S) is an unbelievable value for the money.

 

even though I am a hardcore advocate of building our "sleeper" rep for the TL, you're hitting a slippery slope. Although you have a type-S the initial design of this motor, not even including previous Gen TL's, is already 5 years old. I think by now you should kind of just realize it's not gonna happen. Accuratein's about as far as it goes...and you're basically looking for beyond that.

you say you only want to adjust the A/F ratio. You dont have enough data, to make that a SAFE and "hopefully" ACCURATE adjustment.

in addition, this isn't like the old school cars...where the fuel was pre-unleaded. all our cars have an O2 feedback loop...meaning we have different mixtures at different times, and to fiddle with that, ...to me that's scary.

also, don't forget our biggest limiting factor, we are SOHC NOT DOHC...which is why you can see a VQ 3.5L engine at mid to top revs develop much more power for the same displacement engine as the TL-S. - btw which is the reason i think we pull on G35s

anyway, I admire the fighting spirit, and god i'd love to see you break some good numbers, but just don't forget you're still in a Luxery sedan, and not a racecar.

 

Yeah, I would hate to see my dude fuck his ride up...but he a crazy mofo! You alright with me dawg, but we ain't bringing the photoshoot to your street just because your car won't move in the spring ya nut!

 

^

basically, we're all saying. dont blow your engine! shit man, wait it out patiently.... soon enough, a pre-designed, pre-tuned setup will eventually be for sale.. most likely, the blower... if ct ever gets off their ass and cracks that ACM/ECU

if you're that nuts, sell the type s. get an 06 6mt TL, and blow that fucker out. bklynpanman, 321whp and ACTROS (5at) 320whp... the money you make on the trade in, will buy the blower brand new from comptech

 

How do you figure you are gonna gain power by running rich?? I have had a few racecars and the old addage was always "leaner is meaner, but too lean is no good". Unless you are saying just richen it up to the point where you are still lean enough to make power, but 10-15% WHP?? Who are you kidding besides yourself??
...and btw, it's Tuning...

 

i think answer to this is really simple.
if hondata can't do it, don't mess with it

 

if you guys weren't too busy holding your hands on ur shifter you'd realize this is possible, if hondata quit on it let them, it took them forever to even touch the 04-05 ecu... so be it, a piggyback system will take care of it, I've spoken to quite a number of shops after my dyno this past weekend, the main point they are making is once they figure out the timing they can slightly lower the air fuel ratio to smooth out the power band which will in fact result in a few more ponies... hondata probably wasn't even messing with a type s... dude's there is only 3 things my car doesn't have performance wise available for the j series, and that's thermoblock spacer, atlp jpipe and the other is the blower

like the shops have said, adding intake, exhaust etc... won't yield much with a stock ecu

I understand your concerns about blowing the motor but with risks.... comes reward

ps. oh shit it is tuning lmfao

 

Tuning should still help him guys, im suprised so many people are assuming Hondata quit on the TL'simply because of the lack of gains. Could it be because they didn't feel it was a worthwhile investment?

He thinks hes going to gain more power by making it richer because 13.5 is pretty lean and hes probaly pinging which is retarding his timing. I know I was at that AFR and my CR is 10.5 and not 11.0 like his so even more so.

It would be interesting to hear what Shawn at Church Automotive has to say about this since he owns part of Hondata from what I heard. That I I would be taking it to him to tune directly.

 

glad to see atleast 1 person is down, and um no the motor isn't pinging...

now here is what I want to understand... couple members I've asked, all been running mid to high 13s afr .... I guess it is the intake + spacer bolted on causing it or what not
other thing is low 13s are stock.... I think honda did this just to squeeze out a couple more mpg... and in fact robbed some ponies

 

Well if your motor is running well then the AFR's you have can probably be pushed down to low 13's but really with that kind of AFR graph, you can't expect much gains. Mine when I did the before dyno/AFR readout, my AFR was in the low 11 range, so bumping it up to 13.X gave me a good amount of power, but since then I had to reset my Apex'i NEO so I no longer have a tune on it.

 

i agree. now go to sleep nick!!

 

Damn I would but need to finish my physics lab and look for a traffic school place for the morning session since my traffic school certifcate or whatever is due the 28th
damn procrastination and yes I already got an extension
The place I wanted to go only has ful 8-hour courses in the morning/afternoon from Friday -Tuesday what a bitch huh? God damn failure to signal tickets How is it they charge a bail of $159 for that? Thats way too much.

 

damn... it's like $95 here in ny...

 

Cops actually write failure to signal tickets? They don't here...and no one signals, either.


stillhere - while I don't expect much to come of this, I won't fault you for trying. Good luck!

 

Al, I kinda agree with what guys are saying, I don't think it's worth the hassle and it's an unnecessary risk.

You have more than enough juice already, especially for our NYC terrain. Later on just get a charger and a legit Hondata flash if you decide to go all out.

Patience pays off my friend, practice your driving in the mean time-Jersey has some nice tracks

 

Why do I get the feeling that the OP is going to be the SECOND guy to come on this forum and wonder why Acura won't honor some part of his warranty in the near future?

 

actually currently the only items the dealer will not fix are the following
check engine light regarding emissions
hydrolock
axles
struts
undercarriage damage from being lowered
exhaust
and a couple other items I've modified...

 

I was referring to the "other" guy who owned a 3rd Gen TL and "tried" to do some "custom tuning" of his own. Of course, he blew his engine and then "wondered" why Acura wasn't willing to pay for it under warranty (or something similar).

I was really just trying to point out that ANY fiddling with the engine (especially ECM monkeying, using Methane/NOS, etc) WILL void a warranty. As long as the OP understands that "it's all on him" should things go wrong, then I'd say "go for it".

 

Why is your check engine light on regarding emissions?

 

Nah I ment that if I got a check engine light and it stated on the nav that it was due to emissions... Since I have procats.. The dealer would not even touch it...

As for warranty for tuning... What and you think a hondata reflash doesn't void warranty if you blow the motor

 

^^exactly

thats why if you get a tune with a blue or ultimate, simply take out the PnP harness and go back to stock if you need warranty work. honestly, i dont know why everyone is so leary on getting a tune. ive been driving around with my SC and tune for a year and a half now with no problems. what makes people think that a hondata reflash is safer than driving with a good tune anyways?? people here dont know what there missing out on. i dont see how they can stand all that bucking and serging, using the comptech ACM its doing more bad than good IMO.


i say just do it stillhere. you'll never know until you try. besides, i think there is definetely some hp to be had. just make sure you find a competant tuner, invest in a wideband o2 gauge, so you can keep tabs on the a/f ratio and you'll be fine.

i know all to well of being the first to do something. if i went by what people were telling me, i would not be supercharged today. alot of skeptics were certain that the TL SC kit would never fit on my accord. i took a huge risk, but it turned out well GL

 

using a piggyback like a emanage, is not considered "monkeying" with the ECM, that would be hondata your talking about (if and when it ever comes out ). consider this, it would probably cost around 600-700 bucks for the reflash, but how much and what kind of hassle would it be to send it back and have them bring it back to stock??? you can get the emanage and a tune for about the same price. all the emanage is doing is tricking the ECM by intercepting signals, altering them and lying to its face to keep it happy. when its removed, there is no way in hell a dealer can know you were running a device like this.

 

^ I was going to mention the pnp harness and emanage removal is the equivalent of taking off your aftermarket wheels and putting on the stockies when you have a problem with a strut and you aren't lowered...

what the dealer doesn't need to know... you don't tell them or give them an arsenal to know...

a competent tuner is all it takes blusap... I mean 04accord aint lying

 

Why do you think a 13.5:1 ratio is too lean? Do you want it down to 12.0-12.5? What are your expectations?

Also, does anyone else think that having a CAI will make the car run lean? I searched on the Internet and some people think that if you have a CAI there should be a tune. Since, I guess, the car's ecu cannot get the right mixture itself...

 

it isn't to make it richer... it's to see what more fuel top end could do... I mean even if I get 10hp or even 5hp from a safe tune, it will be a big difference... plus I will already have a base tune if I decide to get a blower

 

so are u saying that w/ the CAI, we are getting more air than fuel???

Kinda lost.. but i'd say stick with it stillhere. I'm w/ u on that, u never know, but taking such a risk like this... remember to think twice and very, very carefully.. remember, this car isn't a CIVIC, a car u can buy with a couple g's.. it's a TL!

 

Hey Al... have you tried....

AEM F/IC is OBD II friendly. It's designed to work with with the O2 sensors... no check engine light.

They're still updating the list of cars because more people are jumping on it but as you see late model honda's have had success with it. Check the forum.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory...CategoryID=116


It runs for about $400.

I believe Boomsland can make a custom harness for it too...

 

AcuraTLboi, yeah, I'm thinking that the CAI is providing so much air that the TL's ecu cannot keep up with it, or the ecu/fuel injectors has reached its maximum ability to increase fuel. Thereby, producing a lean condition.

Reading some of the Mustang forums, I know it's a different car, I've learned that some of their intake manufacturers actually require a tune with their product.

Also, just throwing it out there, I think that could be why some Pro-cats are failing out there. Too lean a condition, could produce too hot of a situation resulting in the melting of the glue holding everything inside together.

 

^ I do believe the cai is creating the lean condition because every member I've asked what their fuel ratio is on... they'ev replied that they are 13.5-13.9... all have cai

as far as the procats... can't think of a member who has them without having a cai so you could be providing a good point...

Hey rodney... I am looking into it... one of my friends also pointed out that it is more user friendly

 

We need to find out what a stock engine is running to find out if 13.5 is too lean.

Check out this article (this website is great read, btw). http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_1595/article.html

In particular, look at "3. High Load"
"A naturally aspirated engine should run an air/fuel ratio of around 12 - 13:1 at peak torque."