TL Track Bound
07-02-2010, 10:28 AM
#46
Racer
ill sell you mine when the time comes to return the car to stock and trade it in. It may be a while tho. I just hit 70k miles.
07-02-2010, 10:28 AM
#47
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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07-02-2010, 11:07 AM
#48
Official results
Well overall I think the car handled the track very well and actually surprised quite a few people that were there. Power wise I think for the track I was on, another 15-20 hp would have helped a lot. I say this because there are a lot of corners at BIR that are just a bit too fast for second gear but when taking it in third, there could be some more mid-range torque and hp to help pull the car out of the corner. I ran with no rear seat and none of the unnecessary bs in the truck like the spare, jack, etc. This definitely helped being I would guess losing just that was a good 30-40 lbs right off the bat. If I decide to continue to track it, I will definitely relocate the battery to the trunk. It’s no secret that our TL’s are quite nose heavy and moving the heavy ass battery to the trunk is an easy helper for this problem. Another observation was that with only a progress rear sway, the car is dangerously close to have a bit TOO much oversteer. Modulating the throttle through the corners was in my opinion a bit too easy and at times the car really wanted to kick it’s ass out on me. My solution for this next time would probably be to first add some sort of spoiler/wing to give a little extra push on the rear end, and also might time some Hotchkis endlinks on the front sway bar with some poly bushings to help firm up the front end a bit. The rear end was already a bit lower than the front to help with braking control but I’m guessing a bit more spring preload and another ¼ inch lower in the rear wouldn’t hurt either.
Tires: they were good for about 5-6 laps before they started to get a bit too loose for my liking. Cold tire pressure was actually around 36 psi with hot tire pressure in the 43-46psi range. This could be slightly different with other tires because imo, the Michelin pilots have a really soft side wall requiring a bit more pressure to hold them up. But for me on this track, the tires were above expectation. Have some great pics of the “orange peal” on the tires that I will get up soon. I didn’t take real accurate tire temps but the general rule of thumb is the outside, middle, and inside should be with about 5% of each other. The track only STi I was with was seeing temps around 200-210 in the front and 170’s in the rear, but after some pressure refinement and camber correction, we had all the tires within about 3% which was awesome to see. Props to their Dunlop DZ stars; They are truly great tires.
Suspension: without dampening/rebound adjustability, I pretty much set the ride height and gave it a shot pretty much in the dark as far as the spring preload. But I would definitely run them a bit stiffer than where they were at. The car has a very predictable amount of slight initial body roll but then holds it right on through the corner. So really, it is basically loading the suspension up and then holds quite nicely until corner exit. The BWR coilovers were great, absolutely no complaints what so ever.
Brakes: I still wasn’t able to get the brake pedal as firm as I would have liked it but overall the brakes were good but still have room for improvement. Definitely would have benefited from stainless lines and a full race pad. The slotted rotors definitely did their job as they are pretty much full of brake dust and compound right now. EBC pads look like there is still a ton of life on them and I’d guess I could get 3 or 4 more track days out of the easily. Brake temps were a bit high, not sure how much a drilled/slotted rotor would have changed that but I did take the front dust shields off before hand and I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t do that. It’s easy and really helps the rotor breathe.
Here’s just some numbers I would always take into consideration at the track.
Front Camber: -.6 degrees (ideal for this track is probably -1.0 degrees)
Rear Camber: -1.5 degrees (ideal would have been about -1.2)
Cold tire pressure: 36 psi all around (see notes above)
Hot tire pressure: 43-46 psi (depended on how many laps we did)
Tire Temps: As close as possible to within 5% across each tire
I HIGHLY recommend Longacre tools for anything at the track. I had access to their tire pressure gauge, tire temp probe and camber tool and though the set was probably 600 or 700 bucks, the knowledge is invaluable.
http://www.longacreracing.com/
Using their tire pressure gauge showed me that my standard, everyday tire gauge was a massive 4-5 psi OFF!!! Their gauge is nitrogen filled I believe and isn’t affected at all by humidity, temperature, etc. IT IS AWESOME.
Probably going back in August
For next time:
Mods to front sway or new front sway
Stiffer spring preload
Front Splitter
Rear spoiler/wing of some sort
Another bolt on or two
Stainless brake lines
FOR THE RECORD, IF WE COULD KEEP THE OFF SUBJECT CHATTING TO A MINIMUM THAT WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. I WANT THIS THREAD TO BE AS SHORT, SWEET, AND AS FULL OF TRACK INFO AS POSSIBLE.
That said, if you guys have any questions, I’d be happy to answer them for you.
Tires: they were good for about 5-6 laps before they started to get a bit too loose for my liking. Cold tire pressure was actually around 36 psi with hot tire pressure in the 43-46psi range. This could be slightly different with other tires because imo, the Michelin pilots have a really soft side wall requiring a bit more pressure to hold them up. But for me on this track, the tires were above expectation. Have some great pics of the “orange peal” on the tires that I will get up soon. I didn’t take real accurate tire temps but the general rule of thumb is the outside, middle, and inside should be with about 5% of each other. The track only STi I was with was seeing temps around 200-210 in the front and 170’s in the rear, but after some pressure refinement and camber correction, we had all the tires within about 3% which was awesome to see. Props to their Dunlop DZ stars; They are truly great tires.
Suspension: without dampening/rebound adjustability, I pretty much set the ride height and gave it a shot pretty much in the dark as far as the spring preload. But I would definitely run them a bit stiffer than where they were at. The car has a very predictable amount of slight initial body roll but then holds it right on through the corner. So really, it is basically loading the suspension up and then holds quite nicely until corner exit. The BWR coilovers were great, absolutely no complaints what so ever.
Brakes: I still wasn’t able to get the brake pedal as firm as I would have liked it but overall the brakes were good but still have room for improvement. Definitely would have benefited from stainless lines and a full race pad. The slotted rotors definitely did their job as they are pretty much full of brake dust and compound right now. EBC pads look like there is still a ton of life on them and I’d guess I could get 3 or 4 more track days out of the easily. Brake temps were a bit high, not sure how much a drilled/slotted rotor would have changed that but I did take the front dust shields off before hand and I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t do that. It’s easy and really helps the rotor breathe.
Here’s just some numbers I would always take into consideration at the track.
Front Camber: -.6 degrees (ideal for this track is probably -1.0 degrees)
Rear Camber: -1.5 degrees (ideal would have been about -1.2)
Cold tire pressure: 36 psi all around (see notes above)
Hot tire pressure: 43-46 psi (depended on how many laps we did)
Tire Temps: As close as possible to within 5% across each tire
I HIGHLY recommend Longacre tools for anything at the track. I had access to their tire pressure gauge, tire temp probe and camber tool and though the set was probably 600 or 700 bucks, the knowledge is invaluable.
http://www.longacreracing.com/
Using their tire pressure gauge showed me that my standard, everyday tire gauge was a massive 4-5 psi OFF!!! Their gauge is nitrogen filled I believe and isn’t affected at all by humidity, temperature, etc. IT IS AWESOME.
Probably going back in August
For next time:
Mods to front sway or new front sway
Stiffer spring preload
Front Splitter
Rear spoiler/wing of some sort
Another bolt on or two
Stainless brake lines
FOR THE RECORD, IF WE COULD KEEP THE OFF SUBJECT CHATTING TO A MINIMUM THAT WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. I WANT THIS THREAD TO BE AS SHORT, SWEET, AND AS FULL OF TRACK INFO AS POSSIBLE.
That said, if you guys have any questions, I’d be happy to answer them for you.
07-02-2010, 01:34 PM
#49
Team Owner
Very nice in depth review.
It's good to hear someone else say that the car is tailhappy with the Progress rear bar. Are you looking at a TL-S or H&R front bar to balance it out?
To get this straight, you have the factory 12.2" Brembos with aftermarket rotors and pads, right? Any fade? It sounds like they held up well. If you get bored you can try the Motul DOT 5.1 fluid. It's much thinner than the other fluids and if you tend to hit ABS, it allows it to function better, reducing stopping distances.
It's too bad to hear the tires gave up after a while but the TL is a heavy car. When those wear out try some Starspecs or NT05s. No one could believe that I went around a co-workers's stock tired Porsche Cayman and a WRX. These tires will put the TL in a completely different league handling wise. One thing I noticed is with my suspension, I had practically no body roll with the normal BFG Gforce Sports. With the new higher limits of these tires there more roll for sure.
As for the spoilers, I doubt you're going to get any effect below 100+ mph.
It's good to hear someone else say that the car is tailhappy with the Progress rear bar. Are you looking at a TL-S or H&R front bar to balance it out?
To get this straight, you have the factory 12.2" Brembos with aftermarket rotors and pads, right? Any fade? It sounds like they held up well. If you get bored you can try the Motul DOT 5.1 fluid. It's much thinner than the other fluids and if you tend to hit ABS, it allows it to function better, reducing stopping distances.
It's too bad to hear the tires gave up after a while but the TL is a heavy car. When those wear out try some Starspecs or NT05s. No one could believe that I went around a co-workers's stock tired Porsche Cayman and a WRX. These tires will put the TL in a completely different league handling wise. One thing I noticed is with my suspension, I had practically no body roll with the normal BFG Gforce Sports. With the new higher limits of these tires there more roll for sure.
As for the spoilers, I doubt you're going to get any effect below 100+ mph.
07-02-2010, 01:44 PM
#50
Yeah I've heard some say that the H&R front is too much for the street and made the car push too much but we'll see, if it comes down to it and other options haven't helped, then I would probably pick one up.
Yes, stock sized slotted rotors with EBC Yellowstuff pads.
Yeah tires on the TL are huge. Much more so than on the smaller, lighter cars I tracked previously.
One of the signatures parts of the BIR course is turns 1 and 2 which they say are "the fastest corners in North America". Even the TL can carry these in the 110-115mph range and was the reason I mentioned the need for downforce. In every other corner the grip is purely mechanical hence the sway/suspension thoughts. But I know exactly where you are coming from.
Yes, stock sized slotted rotors with EBC Yellowstuff pads.
Yeah tires on the TL are huge. Much more so than on the smaller, lighter cars I tracked previously.
One of the signatures parts of the BIR course is turns 1 and 2 which they say are "the fastest corners in North America". Even the TL can carry these in the 110-115mph range and was the reason I mentioned the need for downforce. In every other corner the grip is purely mechanical hence the sway/suspension thoughts. But I know exactly where you are coming from.
07-02-2010, 04:11 PM
#51
Here are some pics from yesterday and just some sample car shots. Will edit and get vids up too.
Here's just a pic of the car as is
Brake setup new out of the box
Quick shots of the interior, note the DIY camera mount that worked really well. ignore the bungy lol Schroth ralleye 4's were great as usual. Put them in every one of my track cars.
Here are some shots I tried to get to show the car at the end of the day.
Notice half the slot is full of brake dust; since cleaned
Orange peal on the Michelins
Rear tire
Trailered, track only STi that I turned some wicked fast laps in
And a brand friggin new Porsche GT3, we had a Ferrari F430 scuderia show up but didn't track, missed the photo op though, sorry!
Here's just a pic of the car as is
Brake setup new out of the box
Quick shots of the interior, note the DIY camera mount that worked really well. ignore the bungy lol Schroth ralleye 4's were great as usual. Put them in every one of my track cars.
Here are some shots I tried to get to show the car at the end of the day.
Notice half the slot is full of brake dust; since cleaned
Orange peal on the Michelins
Rear tire
Trailered, track only STi that I turned some wicked fast laps in
And a brand friggin new Porsche GT3, we had a Ferrari F430 scuderia show up but didn't track, missed the photo op though, sorry!
07-02-2010, 09:18 PM
#52
Sounds like a great time! Do you take the seats out just for the track and then put them back afterwards? Surprised you didn't take out the rear mats...I'm new to this and the club I go with makes you take out everything!
07-03-2010, 03:43 PM
#56
I want them altima se-r wheels on my sentra se-r... dude nice write up...
07-03-2010, 04:16 PM
#57
I took my friends TL 6mt to our local track in Oklahoma, It was basically a stock 05, with tl-s wheels and nitto nt05's.
It started raining towards the end of our day. Out of the 10 cars that ended up going out, i layed down the fastest wet lap. I ran the riken raptors on the front with the nt05's on the rear, and i managed a 1:47 lap time, with my fastest lap of the day being a 1:41.
It started raining towards the end of our day. Out of the 10 cars that ended up going out, i layed down the fastest wet lap. I ran the riken raptors on the front with the nt05's on the rear, and i managed a 1:47 lap time, with my fastest lap of the day being a 1:41.
07-03-2010, 07:05 PM
#59
Team Owner
I took my friends TL 6mt to our local track in Oklahoma, It was basically a stock 05, with tl-s wheels and nitto nt05's.
It started raining towards the end of our day. Out of the 10 cars that ended up going out, i layed down the fastest wet lap. I ran the riken raptors on the front with the nt05's on the rear, and i managed a 1:47 lap time, with my fastest lap of the day being a 1:41.
It started raining towards the end of our day. Out of the 10 cars that ended up going out, i layed down the fastest wet lap. I ran the riken raptors on the front with the nt05's on the rear, and i managed a 1:47 lap time, with my fastest lap of the day being a 1:41.
07-05-2010, 08:11 PM
#60
I love the nt05's. The tire size is wrong for the tl, the wheel tire setup is for My J35 prelude, but my prelude isn't running yet.
here is a list of the competion
1. Ben- 318ti- 1:31.125 (scca autox champion driver, car has M motor, blew hg on last session)
2. Paul- NSX- 1:31.570 (modded, also running NT05's)
3. Steve- Supra- 1:32.345 (700 whp running e85)
4. Troy- SC S2k- 1:34.078
5. Timo- Corvette- 1:34.102 (modded c6)
6. Ronnie- White BMW- 1:35.817 (running r comps)
7. Carl- Z06- 1:36.665 (brand new car, driver not pushing it)
8. Cody- S2k CR- 1:37.439 (exhaust, tuned, suspension, azenis)
9. Rich- TL- 1:41.916 (NT05's, precat delets)
10. Kevin- Del Sol- 1:42.564 (k20 r, track suspension, sway bars, traction ta's)
11. Aric- Mini- 1:43.193 (very experinced driver)
12. Bryan- Turbo BMW- 1:43.954 (single turbo m3, all out race car, gutted, caged, running street tires.)
13. Garrett- S2k- 1:45.174 (intake and exhaust)
14. James- WRX- 1:45.514 (340 hp tuned sti, new driver)
here is a list of the competion
1. Ben- 318ti- 1:31.125 (scca autox champion driver, car has M motor, blew hg on last session)
2. Paul- NSX- 1:31.570 (modded, also running NT05's)
3. Steve- Supra- 1:32.345 (700 whp running e85)
4. Troy- SC S2k- 1:34.078
5. Timo- Corvette- 1:34.102 (modded c6)
6. Ronnie- White BMW- 1:35.817 (running r comps)
7. Carl- Z06- 1:36.665 (brand new car, driver not pushing it)
8. Cody- S2k CR- 1:37.439 (exhaust, tuned, suspension, azenis)
9. Rich- TL- 1:41.916 (NT05's, precat delets)
10. Kevin- Del Sol- 1:42.564 (k20 r, track suspension, sway bars, traction ta's)
11. Aric- Mini- 1:43.193 (very experinced driver)
12. Bryan- Turbo BMW- 1:43.954 (single turbo m3, all out race car, gutted, caged, running street tires.)
13. Garrett- S2k- 1:45.174 (intake and exhaust)
14. James- WRX- 1:45.514 (340 hp tuned sti, new driver)
07-05-2010, 08:17 PM
#61
Team Owner
Looks like you beat some serious cars and weren't far off from some supercars. That's amazing for a stock suspension TL with only exhaust mods and a very good street tire.I was able to take out a co-worker's Cayman on these tires with a little suspension work despite a huge hp disadvantage.
07-06-2010, 06:37 AM
#63
Looks like you beat some serious cars and weren't far off from some supercars. That's amazing for a stock suspension TL with only exhaust mods and a very good street tire.I was able to take out a co-worker's Cayman on these tires with a little suspension work despite a huge hp disadvantage.
07-06-2010, 09:40 AM
#64
Yeah did a pretty decent review a while back, not like anyone noticed....
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-97/bwr-coilovers-finally-full-review-781393/
07-06-2010, 02:37 PM
#66
Really sucked taking the car out of "track mode" today but is nice to have a real car back again. rear seats back in, street pads in, camera mount out, and some trunk space takers back in. Can't wait to go back! Have lots of small projects in the mix to make her even better next time round.
07-06-2010, 09:27 PM
#68
Three Wheelin'
07-06-2010, 09:55 PM
#69
I see it this way, The progress rsb is a great addition to the TL but the HUGE downfall to it is the stock endlinks. I see they make some adjustable ones for the rear but they are too spendy for me. Not sure how the handling would change with the endlinks on the "softer" setting but on most tracks and ESPECIALLY on street, the stiffer setting is preferred by me. just my 
07-07-2010, 11:30 AM
#71
Pro
^^If you are talking about how tailhappy the car is mby it makes more sense to leave the RSB on the softer setting. Especially since people had problems with the stock endlinks breaking on the firmer setting. I would think the best handeling would come from the progress RSB on the softer setting with a TypeS FSB and if you wanted to put it on the firm setting for the track. If you don't have at least the TypeS FSB I wouldn't put that big RSB on the firm setting.
07-07-2010, 01:35 PM
#73
Great thread! Nice feedback. I am still a little off on the whole oversteering FWD car thing. I can see how the rear can come out on high corner speeds but there has got to be some degree of lift to induce that. In my mind, for the car to have a tendency to oversteer you'd need the rear to come out under gas. Even under steady state I'd think a drop in pressures or more camber should resolve it. I dunno. I can't see the TL having "too much" oversteer with a progress rear bar. You guys would seem to know more with the first hand experience.
If you'd like some real endlinks you might consider the Fastline Powerlinks. Moogs are proven OEM replacements but I don't see how much benefit over stock they could really be.
Tracking the car is a great way to figure these things out though. My goal for the end of the year is to get to the track a couple times for development. For 2011, I'd like to be organizing HT sponsors track days in socal.
If you'd like some real endlinks you might consider the Fastline Powerlinks. Moogs are proven OEM replacements but I don't see how much benefit over stock they could really be.
Tracking the car is a great way to figure these things out though. My goal for the end of the year is to get to the track a couple times for development. For 2011, I'd like to be organizing HT sponsors track days in socal.
07-07-2010, 07:01 PM
#74
I know there are many reasons why the car could have too much oversteer but considering my setup and experience, I think it was due to the rest of the car not being properly matched up to the rear sway. Yes, I could go back with the exact same setup with the rsb on the softer setting and see an improvement, but adding/changing anything on the car could then make the stiffer setting on the rsb completely necessary. It wasn't my intention to tune/dial in the car while I was at that track this time, but moreso to just get a feel for the car and see how much room for improvement there was.
07-08-2010, 07:06 PM
#77
http://www.heeltoeauto.com/HT-Spec-B...-pr-65495.html
Originally Posted by mrheeltoe
This kit is designed for the:
Street Performance Enthusiast and the Track or Competition Racer
We also have kits for the Grocery Getter and the Spirited/Stylish Commuter. See our other stages for your specific needs!
HT-Spec brake packages are formulated by HeelToe Automotive through concentrating on the most popular and successful customer upgrades sold. By focusing on individual customer concerns and needs, sensible upgrade packages are assembled, packed, and shipped right to your door or your installers shop.
Save 10% off retail pricing by buying in packages! No coupon needed, the discount it built into the prices below..
Certified HeelToe HT-Spec parts!
* Factory Honda/Acura brakes cannot cope with the higher demands of sports or street performance drivers, even on the street. : The factory recommendation is to change the fluid every 3 years with no mileage interval. HT-Specs dictate this is too long and interval, as it can allow contamination to build up in the system* which will result in Type-2 brake fade*** and less confident braking. The factory recommended fluid is Honda Genuine DOT3, which inherently has a low boiling point****.
* Honda and Acura cars often develop a steering wheel shake when braking from speeds of 60 mph or more. This is most often caused by the overheating of brake pads in performance driving situations**, and can also be a sign that the stock rotors are warped. More aggressive brake pads will often reduce the shaking, but will wear the rotors much faster than conventional pads, increasing rotor replacement intervals.
* The brake rotors used by the factory are heavy (about 18 lbs each on a TSX or TL) and are unable to shed heat efficiently. Excess heat results in increased pad breakdown, warping, shaking, and fading***. Factory rotor maintenance often includes re-surfacing, which removes rotor material resulting in reduced rotor life and increases in replacement frequency.
* Upon pressing the brake pedal firmly, rubber brake hoses will expand and reduce brake fluid pressure acting on the pads and rotors. The situation gets worse as the rubber deteriorates with heat and the elements, and the result is reduced braking ability. Higher performance driving will increase the heat in the lines from the inside, further exacerbating expansion. Even with high performance fluid, brake line expansion can contribute to brake fade in sport driving situations.
* HT-Spec Stage 3 Brake Packages provide a "Performance Package" brake upgrade that could easily be used for mild or moderate track use. Aggressive situations such as spirited canyon or mountain driving will be more confident and safer with an HT-Spec Stage 3 Brake Package: HT-Specs recommend a complete flush of the brake fluid to maintain safe braking operation every 1 year or 15,000 miles, which greatly exceeds the inadequate factory recommendation. The Stage 3 brake packages include 2 half-liter bottles of Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid. This is enough to completely flush the hydraulic system in your Honda or Acura car, reducing fade and extending the life of calipers and cylinders. The wet boiling point of RBF600 is 420°F, significantly higher than the Honda fluid, preventing issues with boiling.
* Racingbrake 2-Piece front brake rotors are provided with the HT-Spec Stage 3 Brake Package.
o Racingbrake Rotor Features:Forged Aluminum Hats for strength, lightness and efficient cooling.
o Free-floating discs for consistency in varied temperatures.
o Curved vanes to shed heat efficiently.
o A specially formulated alloy that prevents wear.
o A slotted face to sweep dust away from the pads and add a sports look.
o A black EDP coating to reduce unsightly surface rust.
o Rotor options in ordering this kit: Option 1 includes Racingbrake UP Front Rotors.
o Option 2 adds matching Racingbrake HP Rear Rotors with optimized iron alloy to the Option 1 Package*****.
* HT-Spec Stage 3 brake packages include upgraded Racingbrake ET500 front and rear brake pads which are specially formulated to work best with Racingbrake 2-Piece and HP brake rotors.
o Racingbrake ET500 Pad Features
eliver braking performance beyond average street-driving.
o Very low dust and no squeaking.
o Excellent Modulation and Consistent Torque Output
o Excellent braking from 80 mph
o Function well at ambient temperature with a 1000°F max temperature
o Extended life of the rear pads; Factory rear brake pads will wear at an accelerated rate that is undesirable to most customers.
* HT-Spec Stage 3 brake packages introduce optional Racingbrake ET800 front and rear brake pads.s.
o Racingbrake ET800 Pad Featureseliver braking performance beyond average street-driving.
o All the drivability of ET500 pads.
o Excellent braking from 120 mph
o Function well at ambient temperature with a 1400°F max temperature
* The factory rubber brake hoses are replaced with DOT Certified Fastline Performance Stainless Steel brake lines. These lines are not prone to deterioration as factory rubber ones are; Fastline Performance brake lines provide a firmer, more confident brake pedal feeling that gives the driver a real sense of control. These brake lines will also eliminate expansion during high-temperature situations experienced during performance use. Another benefit of these Fastline Performance brake lines is the extra measure of safety they promote, as they are highly resistant to being cut by flying debris or vandals.
*Brake fluid pulls molecules of water out of the air since it is “hygroscopic;” Water is a dangerous contaminant in brake fluid. It builds up as sludge in the system and reduces the function of the brakes in warm temperatures. Also, heat cycling of the fluid can cause it to lose it’s resistance to compression and lubricity, which in turn can also cause the pedal to become soft. Lastly, dirt and debris can collect in the fluid reservoir that can promote the wear of seals in the master cylinder and calipers. This can lead to costly premature replacement of these items.
** Common situations of hill decent, freeway exit or panic-stop can induce a high-heat buildup in the braking system that will cause factory brake pads break down, and this causes an unsafe shimmy in the steering wheel while braking, primarily from speeds of 60 mph or more. The shaking is disconcerting and prevents drivers from taking full advantage of the car’s braking ability.
*** Fading: The reduction or loss of braking power. There are two main causes of fade as a result of persistent enthusiastic driving: Type-1, the pads are too hot and are unable to provide friction needed to stop the car (the pedal feels relatively firm but does not stop the car); Type-2, the brake fluid has overheated and begun to boil, reducing it’s ability to withstand pressure without compressing (the pedal will feel soft or spongy).
**** Boiling Point of Honda Genuine Brake Fluid (08798-9008) has a non-specific boiling point, stated only to "exceed...SAE specifications" of 284° wet (containing a small percentage of water, for a "worst case scenarios" comparison of hydrated fluids), which is inadequate for more spirited driving situations where repeated brake inputs raise brake system temperatures to the point of boiling the fluid. In fact, Honda fluid ONLY states claims of wet conditions, indirectly assuming drivers will not change their fluid regularly, which trivializes listing a dry fluid point that new fluid would have. ***** Rear rotors are optional on this kit as they are not required for a comprehensive upgrade, however the higher level of brake pads used in this package justify our recommendation to get the rear rotors to prevent excessive wear or noise.
Street Performance Enthusiast and the Track or Competition Racer
We also have kits for the Grocery Getter and the Spirited/Stylish Commuter. See our other stages for your specific needs!
HT-Spec brake packages are formulated by HeelToe Automotive through concentrating on the most popular and successful customer upgrades sold. By focusing on individual customer concerns and needs, sensible upgrade packages are assembled, packed, and shipped right to your door or your installers shop.
Save 10% off retail pricing by buying in packages! No coupon needed, the discount it built into the prices below..
Certified HeelToe HT-Spec parts!
* Factory Honda/Acura brakes cannot cope with the higher demands of sports or street performance drivers, even on the street. : The factory recommendation is to change the fluid every 3 years with no mileage interval. HT-Specs dictate this is too long and interval, as it can allow contamination to build up in the system* which will result in Type-2 brake fade*** and less confident braking. The factory recommended fluid is Honda Genuine DOT3, which inherently has a low boiling point****.
* Honda and Acura cars often develop a steering wheel shake when braking from speeds of 60 mph or more. This is most often caused by the overheating of brake pads in performance driving situations**, and can also be a sign that the stock rotors are warped. More aggressive brake pads will often reduce the shaking, but will wear the rotors much faster than conventional pads, increasing rotor replacement intervals.
* The brake rotors used by the factory are heavy (about 18 lbs each on a TSX or TL) and are unable to shed heat efficiently. Excess heat results in increased pad breakdown, warping, shaking, and fading***. Factory rotor maintenance often includes re-surfacing, which removes rotor material resulting in reduced rotor life and increases in replacement frequency.
* Upon pressing the brake pedal firmly, rubber brake hoses will expand and reduce brake fluid pressure acting on the pads and rotors. The situation gets worse as the rubber deteriorates with heat and the elements, and the result is reduced braking ability. Higher performance driving will increase the heat in the lines from the inside, further exacerbating expansion. Even with high performance fluid, brake line expansion can contribute to brake fade in sport driving situations.
* HT-Spec Stage 3 Brake Packages provide a "Performance Package" brake upgrade that could easily be used for mild or moderate track use. Aggressive situations such as spirited canyon or mountain driving will be more confident and safer with an HT-Spec Stage 3 Brake Package: HT-Specs recommend a complete flush of the brake fluid to maintain safe braking operation every 1 year or 15,000 miles, which greatly exceeds the inadequate factory recommendation. The Stage 3 brake packages include 2 half-liter bottles of Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid. This is enough to completely flush the hydraulic system in your Honda or Acura car, reducing fade and extending the life of calipers and cylinders. The wet boiling point of RBF600 is 420°F, significantly higher than the Honda fluid, preventing issues with boiling.
* Racingbrake 2-Piece front brake rotors are provided with the HT-Spec Stage 3 Brake Package.
o Racingbrake Rotor Features:Forged Aluminum Hats for strength, lightness and efficient cooling.
o Free-floating discs for consistency in varied temperatures.
o Curved vanes to shed heat efficiently.
o A specially formulated alloy that prevents wear.
o A slotted face to sweep dust away from the pads and add a sports look.
o A black EDP coating to reduce unsightly surface rust.
o Rotor options in ordering this kit: Option 1 includes Racingbrake UP Front Rotors.
o Option 2 adds matching Racingbrake HP Rear Rotors with optimized iron alloy to the Option 1 Package*****.
* HT-Spec Stage 3 brake packages include upgraded Racingbrake ET500 front and rear brake pads which are specially formulated to work best with Racingbrake 2-Piece and HP brake rotors.
o Racingbrake ET500 Pad Features
eliver braking performance beyond average street-driving.o Very low dust and no squeaking.
o Excellent Modulation and Consistent Torque Output
o Excellent braking from 80 mph
o Function well at ambient temperature with a 1000°F max temperature
o Extended life of the rear pads; Factory rear brake pads will wear at an accelerated rate that is undesirable to most customers.
* HT-Spec Stage 3 brake packages introduce optional Racingbrake ET800 front and rear brake pads.s.
o Racingbrake ET800 Pad Features
eliver braking performance beyond average street-driving.o All the drivability of ET500 pads.
o Excellent braking from 120 mph
o Function well at ambient temperature with a 1400°F max temperature
* The factory rubber brake hoses are replaced with DOT Certified Fastline Performance Stainless Steel brake lines. These lines are not prone to deterioration as factory rubber ones are; Fastline Performance brake lines provide a firmer, more confident brake pedal feeling that gives the driver a real sense of control. These brake lines will also eliminate expansion during high-temperature situations experienced during performance use. Another benefit of these Fastline Performance brake lines is the extra measure of safety they promote, as they are highly resistant to being cut by flying debris or vandals.
*Brake fluid pulls molecules of water out of the air since it is “hygroscopic;” Water is a dangerous contaminant in brake fluid. It builds up as sludge in the system and reduces the function of the brakes in warm temperatures. Also, heat cycling of the fluid can cause it to lose it’s resistance to compression and lubricity, which in turn can also cause the pedal to become soft. Lastly, dirt and debris can collect in the fluid reservoir that can promote the wear of seals in the master cylinder and calipers. This can lead to costly premature replacement of these items.
** Common situations of hill decent, freeway exit or panic-stop can induce a high-heat buildup in the braking system that will cause factory brake pads break down, and this causes an unsafe shimmy in the steering wheel while braking, primarily from speeds of 60 mph or more. The shaking is disconcerting and prevents drivers from taking full advantage of the car’s braking ability.
*** Fading: The reduction or loss of braking power. There are two main causes of fade as a result of persistent enthusiastic driving: Type-1, the pads are too hot and are unable to provide friction needed to stop the car (the pedal feels relatively firm but does not stop the car); Type-2, the brake fluid has overheated and begun to boil, reducing it’s ability to withstand pressure without compressing (the pedal will feel soft or spongy).
**** Boiling Point of Honda Genuine Brake Fluid (08798-9008) has a non-specific boiling point, stated only to "exceed...SAE specifications" of 284° wet (containing a small percentage of water, for a "worst case scenarios" comparison of hydrated fluids), which is inadequate for more spirited driving situations where repeated brake inputs raise brake system temperatures to the point of boiling the fluid. In fact, Honda fluid ONLY states claims of wet conditions, indirectly assuming drivers will not change their fluid regularly, which trivializes listing a dry fluid point that new fluid would have. ***** Rear rotors are optional on this kit as they are not required for a comprehensive upgrade, however the higher level of brake pads used in this package justify our recommendation to get the rear rotors to prevent excessive wear or noise.
