Evil_Pineapple

I was looking at the Comptech supercharger and notice that there is no intercooler, blow off valve, fuel pump, and i think no replacement injectors. Is this stuff you can add to the supercharger for more power or is the 60 - 65 WHP boost the maximum you can get out of this supercharger?


Before anyone asks or makes the comment towards a turbo... i do not have the money for a supercharger OR a Turbo system. I am not going FI in my TL for a couple of years. I am just doing research and asking the questions now so i can make an informed decision on what i want to do with my car.


Thanks in advance!!!

NBPacuraTL

iTrader: (1)

Fuel pump, better injectors (RSX-S), and intercooler would help but would be even better with a better EMS system to utilize it to its full potential. I think of it as being on the safe side to prevent or lessen pre-detonation and lean conditions without an aftermarket EMS. So to summarize that, you might gain a few hp, but more if combined with a better form of tuning.

Blow off valve is not unnecessary. Only reason why it is on turbo applications is because the turbine of a turbo is still spinning and forcing air against the throttle body between shifts when the TB is closed. Only way to relieve that pressure without hurting the turbo is to have that BOV. Supercharger is runned by belt, so it's controlled via RPM to build boost and also has a built in by-pass valve. As soon as you let off the throttle, it doesn't continue to try and spin as it would on a turbo.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Evil_Pineapple

So everything that comes with the kit is a good start? The supercharger can be even better by adding all the rest?

NBPacuraTL

iTrader: (1)

Yea. The ACM is a piece of crap, but it's a fairly good start. Methanol injection is another good method to use to be a bit more safe from lean conditions and cool intake temps, which COULD result in a few more ponies.

I hate cars

To be nice, the supercharger kit is incomplete. In reality, it should never have been released in this form because it blows engines.

No blowoff valve is necessary because the throttlebody is on the inlet side of the blower. No trapped air between the blower and TB to worry about.

An intercooler would've been nice but not absolutely required.

The lack of fuel pump, injectors, and a proper way to tune is the reason all of these engines are blowing with the supercharger. If you get one in a couple years, a methanol kit is mandatory to make it reliable.

Evil_Pineapple

Hmmmm.... well i definitely dont want to be blowing any engines... What if when installing the supercharger you put in a fuel pump, injectors, intercooler, aand tune it right... that would then get you to the same price as the turbo kit wouldnt it...

I hate cars

Exactly. The supercharger with the required items to make it reliable, the things that should've been included in the first place, would make it the same or more expensive than the turbo kit and you're still 100hp short.

You could do meth instead of the pump, injectors, and intercooler and likely be just as reliable or slightly more reliable for less money. You just have to make sure the meth is always functioning properly. Most of the kits today have become pretty reliable.

Evil_Pineapple

WOO!

Evil_Pineapple

Seems like there is ALOT of extra work that you need to do just to get this thing to run... Is there any GOOD news about SC? Is there a SC kit that IS reliable?

NBPacuraTL

iTrader: (1)

Only s/c available for the TL is CT-Engineering (Comptech)

Opel

Evil...do a little research on this matter...youll get 100s of posts that pretty much cover everything and every little detail about this.
Done by IHC, myself, 04accord, and few others.
By the time ur done reading, you will know exactly what ur up against.

I just get tired of retyping the same things over and over and over again. Makes me feel like im trying so hard to get a point across and its being ignored lol

Maddizm

iTrader: (5)

^ welcome to the web forum world. Constant repeats seem pretty standard... hahaha

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

All this anti supercharger bs is killing me. There are many more people running the supercharger with no failures than those who have blown engines.

Meth Injection is a very good idea but it stops at that. The supercharger will make 100+ extra hp and a nice bump in tq. Not to mention the f1 car whine that scares the shit out of the owners of even heavily modified cars.

Those who have blwn engines have almost always been very heavily modified, with drivers who are taking full advantage of those mods and thrashing on the car. All the tunning being used by the turbo guys can be modified to work for the supercharger guys.

All this talk of the supercharger being a ticking time bomb is total bs.

I hate cars

How do you know this? From the regular posters on this board I have seen more blown than not.

Meth injection is a necessity.

Don't fool yourself, no fast cars are going to be scared by a little whine. I would likely not waste my gas on a whining supercharged TL much less be scared or intimidated.

Just having the blower is heavily modified. You can't blame that for them blowing. Look at the turbo cars making 100hp more and not blowing up.

You can do the extra tuning, injectors, fuel pump that the kid should've come with in the first place and watch as the cost exceeds the much more powerful turbo kit.


It is 100% true that it is a ticking timebomb that will blow eventually. Every time you get into boost, the detonation is chipping away at your pistons, rod bearings, and headgaskets. It's just a matter of time.

As for the TL scaring heavily modded cars, here's an excerpt from the TR board before I owned my TL you can see how much attention I gave it:

"I have a friend coming to town next Friday so I decided to go to the airport and get gas for the car tonight since I'll most likely be taking it out when she gets here. On the way back I'm not looking for trouble but definately keeping an eye out for anyone that looks twice at me. I had a supercharged Acura TL try me but I didn't really bite. We're on the way home and my friend spots a bike. Not sure what kind but it was a newer crotch rocket. I wait on a right turn until his light goes green and I pull out next to him. Right as we're side by side he goes to turn into a neighborhood. I get desperate and do a ricer blowoff next to him. He pulls out of the turn lane and guns it next to me. We're now on a long corner doing about 65mph. I have it down in third and his bike is screaming. When the road straightens, he hits it slightly before me but I had almost 0 lag and pulled a solid 2-3 cars by 100mph. I hit the brakes, the bike pulled next to me, gave a thumbs up, and turned off. My friend was laughing because he doubted I beat the R6 a while ago. So it was a pretty good night for me and my friend."

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I agree, this is total BS. Lets just say i've blown subaru's...stock that is with only 8k miles on them..clutch engine and 3rd gear..it doesnt matter what you have, its how you treat and drive it.

trojanman10984

iTrader: (1)

you dont hear alot of guys that have sc, only from the ones that have issues, so you cant really say theres more blowing their engines than the ones that arent....i know only one guy personally that blew his and about 4 or 5 that havent

Opel

you dont hear about ppl that blew their motors also...im am one of them...and i only mentioned this more than a year after...and i blew 2 of them...and if you think cause of abuse...the 2nd motor only took a few pulls to blow ring lands on 3 pistons.

and some say, theyll blow if you abuse them...well duh...where's tested reliability??????

so now we should be giving the SC a higher rating cause there's more not blowing than blowing?

i gotta say this...if youre not able to install the sc yourself, then you're not inclined enough on the matter..this is not meant to offend anyone...but if you really understood the depth of how this whole thing works,with FI, temps, fuel,timing etc, then you will know that the kit isn't complete and is a big lack and far from being near perfected.

I hate cars

Once again, the voice of common sense. If I'm ever in your area, I'm going to have to buy you a beer.

Opel

Not a prob man, and we will change my intake pulley. lol

for anyone who really wonders...i do have an intake pulley!!!

Evil_Pineapple

Ouch... thats why i am asking these questions. There is no way i would install ANY FI on my own. Im not a complete dummy when it comes to cars but im no mechanic. This has been very informative thus far and i appreciate the info. I have some time before i make a decision on what im going to do. I may just decide to do some basic stuff to it and leave it at that.... save my money for something else to tune up and beat on. I do love this car though, Its my first Acura and im hooked.


I would say if anything i would go Turbo anyway, i love the sound it makes more than a SC. Of all the info i have gotten from everyone the SC will cost as much or more than a Turbo kit would and still not be as reliable. I think Turbo is the way to go when talking FI. Like i said before i would run my car in AutoX so turbo or SC may not be needed at all. Pulley, J-pipe, exhaust may be enough... then go all out on suspension, tires and brakes. My buddy runs a '96 M3 with intake, exhaust and TONS of suspension work and he is a DEMON on the AutoX track!

Opel

sorry if i came across as harsh and aggressive. lol
what i said wasnt directed towards you...it was a general thing in addition to what was being said.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

NO, a supercharger is not less reliable. in fact, i think it is much more reliable than a turbo kit due to the simplicity of the comptech kit itself. the supercharger housing is absolutely bulletproof and the roots style chargers are known to get well into the 100k mile and beyond range with as little as one SCer oil change. a turbo shares the oil with the engine, so you constantly have to make sure your oil isnt contaminated with anything. the SC kit is also easy to install/uninstall when the time comes too


a turbo kit has much more components that can fail/break on you at the most inopportune times, such tubing, clamps, oil lines, etc,.. also, if you ask me the characteristics of a turbo, wiil put ALOT more strain on a high compression motor like ours, which wasnt designed for boost from the factory. a supercharger with its nice linear powerband and bypass valve allows it to eeeease into boost, which will be alot less harsh on your motor in the long run.

comptech kit + meth kit, aem fi/c and a good tune will give you a nice and powerful reliable DD. dont think about highest hp numbers, which so many people are fixated on, cause it means squat if you cant get it to the ground..


BTW, IHC, i thought the majority of the people who blew their motors, are the ones that ran the HBP without adding anything else?

prlwhtl25

iTrader: (2)

^...x2

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

HBP was the culprit in my case and the lack of proper tuning for it.

OLD_HATCH

as far as plans, think about hp goals.

If a good pep is all you would need than bored tb jpipe exhaust and small things here and there will get you that.(prob around 15-20 more whp)

now if you want to turn ur car into a completely different beast then definately FI is the way to go.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is the extra strain on drivetrain components. It might not be bad but when u get on it things will wear or brake. Basicly anything rubber will take a beating, and if you would have an auto tranny......well at the very least I would get the largest tranny cooler you can get for your application.



I know that might sound a little off topic, but after the sc or turbo gets sorted out these things would also need attention. Just trying to help you plan cause after all is said and done you will still have to spend money because of the supercharger.

phee

iTrader: (5)

i think the issue is that the supercharger kit is incomplete. not that its unreliable

Evil_Pineapple

lol... no man... i know it wasnt directed towards me... I was saying Ouch cause you blew all those motors.

I hate cars

All else being equal, a turbo will always be more reliable than a blower. That's why OTR trucks run turbos and not superchargers. These guys typically get half a million miles or more with most of their life spent in boost. These turbos are nothing special internally. These trucks are also the reason the ball bearing turbos were built, to reduce the exhaust smoking associated with turbo lag on a diesel.

I ran my original out to 220,000 miles and finally broke it when I backwards modded it with cam/heads/intake and overwhelmed it.

The characteristics of the turbo are much easier on an engine than a blower....normally. The TL's roots blower is setup to have "lag" not normally associated with a roots blower due to the lack of tuning from the kit. Every car or truck I've driven with a roots had instant boost from idle on up. This extra lag is why the turbo absolutely annihilates it in torque.

Intercoolers don't break unless you wreck the car. Hoses are silicone and will outlast the car. The only way a clamp is going to come loose is if you use a hose clamp. My spring loaded constant tension clamps never had a problem holding nearly 30psi boost. I've run the same external wastegate for 5 years and the OEM internal gate for 12 years with no issue.

The turbo sharing oil with the engine is a good thing as it's gets a constant supply of fresh oil. BB turbos come with an inline filter from the manufacturer so contamination is not a concern. Journal bearings are not as sensitive. Mine survived many blown headgaskets which filled the crankcase with water.

One thing is for sure, as long as you don't abuse either unit, the supercharger will be coming off the car for repair much more often than a turbo.

Evil_Pineapple

You make a very good point. I am also thinking about the drivetrain and the beating it would be taking. Right now im just planning... i have a while yet before i do ANYTHING to the car. Im not looking to beat Mclaren F1's or corvettes for that matter. I just want to have some fun but not get put to shame by some turbo'd 1996 toyota camry...lol. I was thinking of just doing the little things like Pulley, J-pipe, exhaust and other things to get a nice sound and a little more get up and go, but didnt want to spend the money on that and then decide to go turbo and have to get rid of it all anyway... Hence all the questions i have had about the SC.


I have read a whole lot of postings by Opel and IHC and there is ALOT of info for the brain. I was commenting to my fiance' last night that i spent 3 hours reading posts but when it comes to the 7 short stories i have to read for my English 101 class i cant get past the 1st page without falling asleep...lol.

I hate cars

04accord- I jsut re-read my post and it sounds harsh, I wasn't trying to come across that way or to imply that the supercharger is in any way unreliable. It's not the supercharger's fault that the kit it came in was incomplete, giving it a bad name.

I hate cars

LOL. I fall asleep reading my own stuff. I don't know how you guys stay awake.

Evil_Pineapple

Its interesting to me... reading other shit is boring... So i dont know what the civil war was about, or who invented the helicoptor... even though i own one...


Hope im not the only one that knows what movie thats from

Opel

I dont question the blowers reliability, i dont question the shafts reliability, or intake housing, or anything like that...what makes the kit unreliable as a whole is the fact that its incomplete, so your motor becomes unreliable, cause the kit is now a part of ur motor.

Not many knew or suspected any failures from this setup...after paying 4-5k, most people would take the kit for granted, slap it on the car, and thats the end of it!

most didnt question the motors reliability after that...the kit was from CT, a trustworthy aftermarket honda/acura performance company, and that was considered somewhat of a peace of mind.

people that know more and deeper details about this whole process, would have questioned the kit, and reassured themselves that it was safe...

but when it comes to that...most people dont even know what size injectors the TL has, fuel pump capacity, what exactly did the ACM do, what exactly does it mean to have a CR of 11.0:1 and boost, how the motor runs NA to begin with, and how its mapped...so how can they ever question anything. What do they know exactly how it runs after the blower install, the AFR, Timing, etc
As a result of that, that's what happened: you buy from a big name company, and in your head, you take it for granted, and assume its all good, and dont question it.

neither one of my motors blew with HBPs....they both were at 4-5 psi, and both blew during cold weather runs, so i wasn't pushing them through 100 degree weather either.

did i think the kit was perfect? NO! but i still ran it... ACM was first thing i cursed out, and second was the crushing of the FPR, but again, i still ran it.

There's ppl out there that run them untuned, and without meth, and have not blown...but that doesnt mean much.
Concern is about blowing, and not the other, so focus automatically goes to the blowing cases.
Someone who's motor hasn't blown, thinks the kit is perfect,
Someone who's motor has blown, thinks the kit is far from perfect,
So, look at whats been happening and try and determine the real verdict....im confident you will agree with me, on the fact that, this kit is incomplete and leans the scale of the motor very much on the unreliable side..

As far as things being available to making it reliable...sure, we can agree on that, but if i have to run out and gather the other half of the stuff, then im pretty much putting together a "complete" kit myself, and not CT....So CT gave you a half a product for 4-5K, that puts you at risk of costing another 4-5k to get your motor back up and running, once it blows, if you fail to complete the kit 'Yourself", which you shouldn't have to, to begin with.

it shouldve been sold as a "SC Kit, in desperate need of completion, (disclaimer: You're at your own risk) "

Evil_Pineapple

I totally get what ur saying. I did alot of research on FI when i was with Mitsubishi so i learned alot about how it works what kind of tuning you need and what helps keep the life of your engine. I am no where near being an expert but i can pick up very quickly because i do all research before i do anything. I do need to learn about these engines though. I have an understanding of CR but more for American V8's and Mitsubishi motors. IM learning that Honda is a whole different beast....


I do have some newbie questions... I dont know acronyms.... what is HBP, ACM, FPR?

Opel

HBP= Higher Boost Pulley
ACM= Advanced Control Module (supplied by CT as a tuning means)
FPR=Fuel Pressure Regulator.


again, my post wasn't towards anyone specific, much less you

none of us knew any of this at one point in time lol

Evil_Pineapple

Its all good... Thanks for the answers to my acronym question.... I dont take shit personal.... i know people are going to be sarcastic, i am too. I have grown a thick skin in my 31 years of life.... especially since im hawaiian... No i dont know Dog the bounty hunter... Yes, we live in houses.... No we dont run around naked... Just because there is pineapple on a pizza doesnt make it Hawaiian....the canadian bacon makes it hawaiian....lol

trojanman10984

iTrader: (1)

so in order to make this "reliable" i would need to get a meth kit, proper tune, different injectors (from an rsx type s?)...what else would i need?

what meth kit is the best way to go?
aem or greddy ultimate as far as tune goes?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Opel, great post. The fuel pump crushing always baffled me as being a controlled adjustment to fuel delivery. Was your blown engines caused by poor fuel management only?

I've got noob question.

Is the difficulty of boosting/managing a motor with CR of 11.0:1 the fact that it'll detonate more easily if out of tune? If someone were to blow their motor, how difficult would it be to reduce the CR?

I hate cars

11:1 means you can't run as much boost. In my experience when it does detonate it's usually more severe. Lower compression not only allows more boost to be run but it gives you a little more room to screw up.

Once it's blown, you're likely swapping all pistons anyway. It's as easy as ordering new pistons like JE or a little cheaper but made by JE, Sportsman Racing Pistons (SRP) with a lower compression. Between the cost of the replacement stock pistons and the nice low comp forged pistons, you're looking at less than $400 extra.

You'll lose in the neighborhood of 5-10% of your power if you go from 11:1 down to 9:1 but you'll make an additional 30% more power once you raise the boost.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

That sounds like the sensible rebuild path to me. Are most people who are having multiple catastrophes always going right back to 11:1?