SC Tune Needed?
10-18-2009, 01:09 PM
#1
SC Tune Needed?
I have a SC and added a meth kit (straight meth and not 50/50). There was a local shop that sold me on their custom meth kit where they are able to adjust the spray based on boost AND RPM. For example, if I'm at 4k RPM and at 3lbs of boost, it's going to spray "x" amount of methanol. If I'm at 4k and 4lbs of boost, it'll spray "y" amount. They are able to adjust the spray at each (1k) RPM level depending on the amount of boost. They are not spraying at under 3k RPM.
I will eventually put on the high boost pulley. If this kit allows me to essentially tune the AF Ratio by adjusting the amount of spray, would I still need the AEM FIC? Do I still need to tune the timing? I really don't understand when people talk about advancing or retarding the timing. Are there other features to the AEM FIC besides the fuel and timing adjustments that I would need?
I'm also thinking I won't need bigger injectors but I guess the negative would be that I would be using up the methanol quicker.
Any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norm
I will eventually put on the high boost pulley. If this kit allows me to essentially tune the AF Ratio by adjusting the amount of spray, would I still need the AEM FIC? Do I still need to tune the timing? I really don't understand when people talk about advancing or retarding the timing. Are there other features to the AEM FIC besides the fuel and timing adjustments that I would need?
I'm also thinking I won't need bigger injectors but I guess the negative would be that I would be using up the methanol quicker.
Any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norm
10-18-2009, 08:57 PM
#2
I have a SC and added a meth kit (straight meth and not 50/50). There was a local shop that sold me on their custom meth kit where they are able to adjust the spray based on boost AND RPM. For example, if I'm at 4k RPM and at 3lbs of boost, it's going to spray "x" amount of methanol. If I'm at 4k and 4lbs of boost, it'll spray "y" amount. They are able to adjust the spray at each (1k) RPM level depending on the amount of boost. They are not spraying at under 3k RPM.
I will eventually put on the high boost pulley. If this kit allows me to essentially tune the AF Ratio by adjusting the amount of spray, would I still need the AEM FIC? Do I still need to tune the timing? I really don't understand when people talk about advancing or retarding the timing. Are there other features to the AEM FIC besides the fuel and timing adjustments that I would need?
I'm also thinking I won't need bigger injectors but I guess the negative would be that I would be using up the methanol quicker.
Any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norm
I will eventually put on the high boost pulley. If this kit allows me to essentially tune the AF Ratio by adjusting the amount of spray, would I still need the AEM FIC? Do I still need to tune the timing? I really don't understand when people talk about advancing or retarding the timing. Are there other features to the AEM FIC besides the fuel and timing adjustments that I would need?
I'm also thinking I won't need bigger injectors but I guess the negative would be that I would be using up the methanol quicker.
Any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norm
The point of the meth is three fold, first it cools the intake temps so the air intake sensor doesn't retard timming, second it provides extra fuel to bring the AFR back to where it should be and third brings up the octane of the fuel to reduce detonation.
I don't know anything about the AEM unit.
10-19-2009, 01:15 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Ok, first of all, your methanol setup sounds confusing. I guess you didnt listen to any of us, and took the shops word for it and used their custom kit..fine and dandy.
now you're looking to go up in boost...i would recommend injectors, fuel pump, and AEM F/IC
The F/IC is pretty much going to control the AFR, and Ignition Timing. As well as your VTec engagement
Everything relates to "knocking"....
ECM will try and prevent the engine from knocking at all times, by adjusting ignition timing
That can be caused by things, such as:
High IATs
Low octane
Lean AFR
You will be running more boost, therefore timing becomes more critical here, even though at those low boost levels, methanol has taken care of it.
I would highly recommend you get the F/IC, so you can tune correctly, and not depend on the CT ACM. You will also take full advantage of your whole setup and make max power, you will also have a consistent and safe AFR, you can precisely set ignition timing.
You will have this done right!
A bit more info on ignition retard with boost..
Well a good general rule of thumb is something like..for every 1 psi, retard timing 1 degree from NA form
so if your timing is about say 20 degrees BTDC
and you're running 15 psi peek boost...
when the ECM sees 15 psi, your timing would be 5 degrees BTDC
if you're only at 10 psi anywhere through ur rpm band then at that point, the timing would be 10 degrees BTDC
this all really depends and its just a simple example of how you can look at it. there's a lot more thats at play...for example you're running methanol, which would allow you for a bit more aggressive timing (more advanced), that means few more degrees BTDC
all simply due to having lower IATs, higher octane.
But again...it all comes down to keeping it out of DETONATION.
its late and idk wtf im saying...but i hope i helped lol
now you're looking to go up in boost...i would recommend injectors, fuel pump, and AEM F/IC
The F/IC is pretty much going to control the AFR, and Ignition Timing. As well as your VTec engagement
Everything relates to "knocking"....
ECM will try and prevent the engine from knocking at all times, by adjusting ignition timing
That can be caused by things, such as:
High IATs
Low octane
Lean AFR
You will be running more boost, therefore timing becomes more critical here, even though at those low boost levels, methanol has taken care of it.
I would highly recommend you get the F/IC, so you can tune correctly, and not depend on the CT ACM. You will also take full advantage of your whole setup and make max power, you will also have a consistent and safe AFR, you can precisely set ignition timing.
You will have this done right!
A bit more info on ignition retard with boost..
Well a good general rule of thumb is something like..for every 1 psi, retard timing 1 degree from NA form
so if your timing is about say 20 degrees BTDC
and you're running 15 psi peek boost...
when the ECM sees 15 psi, your timing would be 5 degrees BTDC
if you're only at 10 psi anywhere through ur rpm band then at that point, the timing would be 10 degrees BTDC
this all really depends and its just a simple example of how you can look at it. there's a lot more thats at play...for example you're running methanol, which would allow you for a bit more aggressive timing (more advanced), that means few more degrees BTDC
all simply due to having lower IATs, higher octane.
But again...it all comes down to keeping it out of DETONATION.
its late and idk wtf im saying...but i hope i helped lol
10-19-2009, 06:00 AM
#4
My understanding is that the ECU retards timming when it see's high air intake temps and or knock. When trying to extract 100 extra HP out of the engine, you need more fuel to keep the AFR in a good range and you can use larger injectors or meth to do this.
The point of the meth is three fold, first it cools the intake temps so the air intake sensor doesn't retard timming, second it provides extra fuel to bring the AFR back to where it should be and third brings up the octane of the fuel to reduce detonation.
The point of the meth is three fold, first it cools the intake temps so the air intake sensor doesn't retard timming, second it provides extra fuel to bring the AFR back to where it should be and third brings up the octane of the fuel to reduce detonation.
BTW - good luck with the turbo! can't wait to see that setup!
Everything relates to "knocking"....
ECM will try and prevent the engine from knocking at all times, by adjusting ignition timing
That can be caused by things, such as:
High IATs
Low octane
Lean AFR
You will be running more boost, therefore timing becomes more critical here, even though at those low boost levels, methanol has taken care of it.
I would highly recommend you get the F/IC, so you can tune correctly, and not depend on the CT ACM. You will also take full advantage of your whole setup and make max power, you will also have a consistent and safe AFR, you can precisely set ignition timing.
You will have this done right!
A bit more info on ignition retard with boost..
Well a good general rule of thumb is something like..for every 1 psi, retard timing 1 degree from NA form
so if your timing is about say 20 degrees BTDC
and you're running 15 psi peek boost...
when the ECM sees 15 psi, your timing would be 5 degrees BTDC
if you're only at 10 psi anywhere through ur rpm band then at that point, the timing would be 10 degrees BTDC
this all really depends and its just a simple example of how you can look at it. there's a lot more thats at play...for example you're running methanol, which would allow you for a bit more aggressive timing (more advanced), that means few more degrees BTDC
all simply due to having lower IATs, higher octane.
But again...it all comes down to keeping it out of DETONATION.
its late and idk wtf im saying...but i hope i helped lol
ECM will try and prevent the engine from knocking at all times, by adjusting ignition timing
That can be caused by things, such as:
High IATs
Low octane
Lean AFR
You will be running more boost, therefore timing becomes more critical here, even though at those low boost levels, methanol has taken care of it.
I would highly recommend you get the F/IC, so you can tune correctly, and not depend on the CT ACM. You will also take full advantage of your whole setup and make max power, you will also have a consistent and safe AFR, you can precisely set ignition timing.
You will have this done right!
A bit more info on ignition retard with boost..
Well a good general rule of thumb is something like..for every 1 psi, retard timing 1 degree from NA form
so if your timing is about say 20 degrees BTDC
and you're running 15 psi peek boost...
when the ECM sees 15 psi, your timing would be 5 degrees BTDC
if you're only at 10 psi anywhere through ur rpm band then at that point, the timing would be 10 degrees BTDC
this all really depends and its just a simple example of how you can look at it. there's a lot more thats at play...for example you're running methanol, which would allow you for a bit more aggressive timing (more advanced), that means few more degrees BTDC
all simply due to having lower IATs, higher octane.
But again...it all comes down to keeping it out of DETONATION.
its late and idk wtf im saying...but i hope i helped lol
So from what I gather, the meth kit will help a lot and I can stick with it if I want to risk blowing it up
but I should get the AEM FIC just to fine tune it and be safe.
10-19-2009, 07:07 AM
#5
From my experience, the ACM makes the car run pig rich. And bad. I would regularly see A/F ratios in the low 10's on just a stock pulley. I've even talked to a few guys dipping in the low 9's.
The meth kit will not allow you to pull any of that fuel out at any point. Some sort of engine management is the only way to go there.
FYI, my setup... F/IC, stock injectors, stock fuel pump, modified FPR and high boost pulley. The reason I left the stock injectors in was because I was running SO rich before I got the car tuned that I knew they had plenty of capacity. At some point I may upgrade them, but for now I think they're fine.
Everyone's car is different so you may or may not NEED the upgraded fuel pump and/or injectors. I'd recommend you make a few pulls on the dyno first if you haven't already. That should give you an idea of how hard your stock injectors are currently working.
Another side node... The meth kit allowed me to run with 0 degrees of timing retard and make a few extra ponies. Then I've got the low level sensor for the meth kit hooked up to the F/IC to switch to a less aggressive tune if I was to ever run out.
The meth kit will not allow you to pull any of that fuel out at any point. Some sort of engine management is the only way to go there.
FYI, my setup... F/IC, stock injectors, stock fuel pump, modified FPR and high boost pulley. The reason I left the stock injectors in was because I was running SO rich before I got the car tuned that I knew they had plenty of capacity. At some point I may upgrade them, but for now I think they're fine.
Everyone's car is different so you may or may not NEED the upgraded fuel pump and/or injectors. I'd recommend you make a few pulls on the dyno first if you haven't already. That should give you an idea of how hard your stock injectors are currently working.
Another side node... The meth kit allowed me to run with 0 degrees of timing retard and make a few extra ponies. Then I've got the low level sensor for the meth kit hooked up to the F/IC to switch to a less aggressive tune if I was to ever run out.
Last edited by bmeyer; 10-19-2009 at 07:09 AM.
10-19-2009, 06:48 PM
#6
From my experience, the ACM makes the car run pig rich. And bad. I would regularly see A/F ratios in the low 10's on just a stock pulley. I've even talked to a few guys dipping in the low 9's.
The meth kit will not allow you to pull any of that fuel out at any point. Some sort of engine management is the only way to go there.
FYI, my setup... F/IC, stock injectors, stock fuel pump, modified FPR and high boost pulley. The reason I left the stock injectors in was because I was running SO rich before I got the car tuned that I knew they had plenty of capacity. At some point I may upgrade them, but for now I think they're fine.
Everyone's car is different so you may or may not NEED the upgraded fuel pump and/or injectors. I'd recommend you make a few pulls on the dyno first if you haven't already. That should give you an idea of how hard your stock injectors are currently working.
Another side node... The meth kit allowed me to run with 0 degrees of timing retard and make a few extra ponies. Then I've got the low level sensor for the meth kit hooked up to the F/IC to switch to a less aggressive tune if I was to ever run out.
The meth kit will not allow you to pull any of that fuel out at any point. Some sort of engine management is the only way to go there.
FYI, my setup... F/IC, stock injectors, stock fuel pump, modified FPR and high boost pulley. The reason I left the stock injectors in was because I was running SO rich before I got the car tuned that I knew they had plenty of capacity. At some point I may upgrade them, but for now I think they're fine.
Everyone's car is different so you may or may not NEED the upgraded fuel pump and/or injectors. I'd recommend you make a few pulls on the dyno first if you haven't already. That should give you an idea of how hard your stock injectors are currently working.
Another side node... The meth kit allowed me to run with 0 degrees of timing retard and make a few extra ponies. Then I've got the low level sensor for the meth kit hooked up to the F/IC to switch to a less aggressive tune if I was to ever run out.
What did you adjust with the F/IC? Just fuel or did you do timing as well? Were you able to control the VTEC engagement point?
10-19-2009, 07:42 PM
#7
I've had the HBP on for about a month now.
The fuel and VTEC was adjusted with the F/IC. Initially the timing was kicked back about -1 degree per pound of boost, but we were able to tune that out since I'm running the water/meth injection. (My 'safe' setting is still being retarded -1 degree/lb. boost though.)
PM me your email and I can send you my tune and you can pull it into the F/IC software (free download) and check it out for yourself. (I'm not responsible if you blow up your engine with it. Heh.)
My Innovate LM-2 was REALLY helpful during the tuning process. We were able to graph all of the parameters from the factory ECU. (Long-term/short-term fuel trims, timing, A/F, IAT, you name it.) Unfortunately you cannot buy the dual LM-2 kit and replace your factory O2 sensors. You'll have to weld in another bung on the J-pipe right before the factory cat if you decide to run one.
No issues of any sort so far. IMHO, the HBP is great. It creates more of a linear feel from the car. With the standard pulley, I'd almost relate the feel to turbo lag. Until a certain RPM the car would act normal and then all of the sudden the power would start to come on. I would not recommend the HBP without the pre-cat delete, j-pipe, test pipe/high-flow cat and engine management combo.
The VTEC engagement point is VERY easy to change with the F/IC. Basically just pick an RPM point and set it in the preferences. 4000 RPMs seems to be the sweet spot on these engines. Any more or less any you start to get a bit of a dip in your HP/TQ numbers.
Like I stated in one of my other threads, I had to actually 'tune' my car (6-MT) in 3rd gear. Tuning for 4th caused 1st, 2nd and 3rd to lean out really bad around 5500 RPMs. Tuning for 3rd still made 4th go rich and caused me to lose a few ponies up top, but that's a small sacrifice to make for not having to worry about leaning out my engine too much in the lower gears. Because of the results I saw on the dyno, I believe that the TL has gear-dependant fuel mapping. I've yet to hear anyone else to chime in on the issue though. I'd love to hear from Opel or 04accordcpe on the matter.
On a side-note, if you're experiencing any surging with the comptech setup, the F/IC will take care of that. At one point there was some speculation as to whether the surging was caused by the ACM or by an incorrectly done FPR mod. I can confirm that it was indeed the ACM that caused my surge. Simply swapping out systems will either induce or elevate the issue.
The fuel and VTEC was adjusted with the F/IC. Initially the timing was kicked back about -1 degree per pound of boost, but we were able to tune that out since I'm running the water/meth injection. (My 'safe' setting is still being retarded -1 degree/lb. boost though.)
PM me your email and I can send you my tune and you can pull it into the F/IC software (free download) and check it out for yourself. (I'm not responsible if you blow up your engine with it. Heh.)
My Innovate LM-2 was REALLY helpful during the tuning process. We were able to graph all of the parameters from the factory ECU. (Long-term/short-term fuel trims, timing, A/F, IAT, you name it.) Unfortunately you cannot buy the dual LM-2 kit and replace your factory O2 sensors. You'll have to weld in another bung on the J-pipe right before the factory cat if you decide to run one.
No issues of any sort so far. IMHO, the HBP is great. It creates more of a linear feel from the car. With the standard pulley, I'd almost relate the feel to turbo lag. Until a certain RPM the car would act normal and then all of the sudden the power would start to come on. I would not recommend the HBP without the pre-cat delete, j-pipe, test pipe/high-flow cat and engine management combo.
The VTEC engagement point is VERY easy to change with the F/IC. Basically just pick an RPM point and set it in the preferences. 4000 RPMs seems to be the sweet spot on these engines. Any more or less any you start to get a bit of a dip in your HP/TQ numbers.
Like I stated in one of my other threads, I had to actually 'tune' my car (6-MT) in 3rd gear. Tuning for 4th caused 1st, 2nd and 3rd to lean out really bad around 5500 RPMs. Tuning for 3rd still made 4th go rich and caused me to lose a few ponies up top, but that's a small sacrifice to make for not having to worry about leaning out my engine too much in the lower gears. Because of the results I saw on the dyno, I believe that the TL has gear-dependant fuel mapping. I've yet to hear anyone else to chime in on the issue though. I'd love to hear from Opel or 04accordcpe on the matter.
On a side-note, if you're experiencing any surging with the comptech setup, the F/IC will take care of that. At one point there was some speculation as to whether the surging was caused by the ACM or by an incorrectly done FPR mod. I can confirm that it was indeed the ACM that caused my surge. Simply swapping out systems will either induce or elevate the issue.
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10-19-2009, 07:46 PM
#8
By the way, I think we need to get a few guys together and compile a small article on S/C'ing the TL. There's enough knowledge on the forums to get a reliable system up and running, but doing all of the searching can be a huge PITA. (Speaking from personal experience.)
10-19-2009, 08:17 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
and in a matter of days the thread will scroll itself down and get lost, and u start getting the same questions over and over and over again...
u realize some people will sign up just so they can post one question. such as, "whats the best CAI" when search could be done, threads could be looked through as a "guest"
the thread u suggest alone will get beaten to death with repeated questions...by the time it gets to its 4-5th page, people will hardly read the first post...theyll go straight to last post and just post another question.
i have thought of doing this in the past, and to include every single piece of info, every single piece of detail..write a whole freaking book on this...but then again, at the end of the day it feels like a waste of my time and energy, because somehow everything u write has to be rewritten, broken down to microscopic details, and explained again and again and again simple because some just dont search, and they're used to convenience
Same thing on methanol, thought of doing a big write up on it too.
prob no one notices, but i dont even post as much anymore, or lately lol. sometimes ive just had it
u realize some people will sign up just so they can post one question. such as, "whats the best CAI" when search could be done, threads could be looked through as a "guest"
the thread u suggest alone will get beaten to death with repeated questions...by the time it gets to its 4-5th page, people will hardly read the first post...theyll go straight to last post and just post another question.
i have thought of doing this in the past, and to include every single piece of info, every single piece of detail..write a whole freaking book on this...but then again, at the end of the day it feels like a waste of my time and energy, because somehow everything u write has to be rewritten, broken down to microscopic details, and explained again and again and again simple because some just dont search, and they're used to convenience
Same thing on methanol, thought of doing a big write up on it too.
prob no one notices, but i dont even post as much anymore, or lately lol. sometimes ive just had it
10-19-2009, 08:27 PM
#10
Isn't that what a sticky is for. Allowing the compilation of true information so it doesn't get lost in the sea of off topic responses that we are all guilty of doing?
If a mod reads this, is there any way for some of the more knowledgeable people like IHC, Opel, bmeyer, etc to do something like this? I may be volunteering them for something they don't want to do, but Opel is right. There are too many repeat questions but it is also very hard to find information with the search function.
If a mod reads this, is there any way for some of the more knowledgeable people like IHC, Opel, bmeyer, etc to do something like this? I may be volunteering them for something they don't want to do, but Opel is right. There are too many repeat questions but it is also very hard to find information with the search function.
10-19-2009, 09:02 PM
#11
and in a matter of days the thread will scroll itself down and get lost, and u start getting the same questions over and over and over again...
u realize some people will sign up just so they can post one question. such as, "whats the best CAI" when search could be done, threads could be looked through as a "guest"
the thread u suggest alone will get beaten to death with repeated questions...by the time it gets to its 4-5th page, people will hardly read the first post...theyll go straight to last post and just post another question.
i have thought of doing this in the past, and to include every single piece of info, every single piece of detail..write a whole freaking book on this...but then again, at the end of the day it feels like a waste of my time and energy, because somehow everything u write has to be rewritten, broken down to microscopic details, and explained again and again and again simple because some just dont search, and they're used to convenience
Same thing on methanol, thought of doing a big write up on it too.
prob no one notices, but i dont even post as much anymore, or lately lol. sometimes ive just had it
u realize some people will sign up just so they can post one question. such as, "whats the best CAI" when search could be done, threads could be looked through as a "guest"
the thread u suggest alone will get beaten to death with repeated questions...by the time it gets to its 4-5th page, people will hardly read the first post...theyll go straight to last post and just post another question.
i have thought of doing this in the past, and to include every single piece of info, every single piece of detail..write a whole freaking book on this...but then again, at the end of the day it feels like a waste of my time and energy, because somehow everything u write has to be rewritten, broken down to microscopic details, and explained again and again and again simple because some just dont search, and they're used to convenience
Same thing on methanol, thought of doing a big write up on it too.
prob no one notices, but i dont even post as much anymore, or lately lol. sometimes ive just had it
I'd be more inclined to do it if a mod were to agree to reviewing a final version of the article, posting it as a sticky and then locking it.
10-20-2009, 03:57 AM
#13
I have a SC and added a meth kit (straight meth and not 50/50). There was a local shop that sold me on their custom meth kit where they are able to adjust the spray based on boost AND RPM. For example, if I'm at 4k RPM and at 3lbs of boost, it's going to spray "x" amount of methanol. If I'm at 4k and 4lbs of boost, it'll spray "y" amount. They are able to adjust the spray at each (1k) RPM level depending on the amount of boost. They are not spraying at under 3k RPM.
I will eventually put on the high boost pulley. If this kit allows me to essentially tune the AF Ratio by adjusting the amount of spray, would I still need the AEM FIC? Do I still need to tune the timing? I really don't understand when people talk about advancing or retarding the timing. Are there other features to the AEM FIC besides the fuel and timing adjustments that I would need?
I'm also thinking I won't need bigger injectors but I guess the negative would be that I would be using up the methanol quicker.
Any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norm
I will eventually put on the high boost pulley. If this kit allows me to essentially tune the AF Ratio by adjusting the amount of spray, would I still need the AEM FIC? Do I still need to tune the timing? I really don't understand when people talk about advancing or retarding the timing. Are there other features to the AEM FIC besides the fuel and timing adjustments that I would need?
I'm also thinking I won't need bigger injectors but I guess the negative would be that I would be using up the methanol quicker.
Any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norm
also, running a progressive silinoid to spray x amount of meth for x amount of boost is a waste too, since we are not running crazy amounts of boost in the first place. our setups are very simple and there is no need to get too fancy when it comes to installing a meth injection kit. i have mine set to simply spray when it see's 2-3 psi. spraying anytime before that and you'll just be wasting it.
in regards to the AEM FI/c, dont think of it as a "should i install it mod" its really a "must have mod" ESPECIALLY if you want to reap the full benefits of the meth injection, cause the comptech ACM, (also known as the POS) isnt going to do it for you. the sooner you get rid of it and get a proper tune, the better. my advise to you is research a bit more and do a little more homework before going any further
i havent really post much lately, cause alot off this stuff nowadays has been covered many, many, times in the past and it starts to get a bit redundant.like OPEL said, throwing a HBP is careless without properly upgrading the fuel system (pump, FPR, injectors etc,..) hell, i maxed out the stock injectors with a simple tune, and upgraded to rsx-s injectors while only running 4psi of boost. even though the stock injectors may do the job for now, i gaurantee they are running close to 100% duty cycle and will eventually need replacement somewhere down the road. your also on the wrong track by thinking you can make up for injector size and alter the AFR by simply adding/subtracting more meth
its alot more complicated than that.bottomline, you already have the meth kit, so if you want to get the max out of your current setup, go with slightly bigger injectors, AEM FI/c (GEMU is also a good option, if you plan on keeping the boost levels under 4-5psi) upgrade the exhaust all the way (PCD's, jpipe, catback) and most importantly a GOOD TUNE.
Originally Posted by bmeyer
Like I stated in one of my other threads, I had to actually 'tune' my car (6-MT) in 3rd gear. Tuning for 4th caused 1st, 2nd and 3rd to lean out really bad around 5500 RPMs. Tuning for 3rd still made 4th go rich and caused me to lose a few ponies up top, but that's a small sacrifice to make for not having to worry about leaning out my engine too much in the lower gears. Because of the results I saw on the dyno, I believe that the TL has gear-dependant fuel mapping. I've yet to hear anyone else to chime in on the issue though. I'd love to hear from Opel or 04accordcpe on the matter.
what about those af/hp/tq/psi graphs?? post'em up, so we can get a better look on what were dealing with
Last edited by 04accordcpe; 10-20-2009 at 04:01 AM.
10-20-2009, 07:01 AM
#14
first off, who did your tuning and what type of dyno was used?? on most dyno's 4th gear tuning is all you need IMO, but the beauty about dynopacks, is it can supply different hydraulic loads for more precise real world tuning, which most roller types wont do for you. naturally your going to run a bit leaner in the bottom gears, so i wouldnt worry about it too much (unless its severely lean, than you might have a problem) i am almost 100% positive the TL doesnt utilize a gear-dependant fuel map.
what about those af/hp/tq/psi graphs?? post'em up, so we can get a better look on what were dealing with
what about those af/hp/tq/psi graphs?? post'em up, so we can get a better look on what were dealing with
I'll be doing a bit of searching sometime soon to see about getting a couple runs done at another shop just to see if we run into the same thing or whether there was something else going on there.
I will get the graphs posted up, but it's been crunch week this week and last at work. FYI, 16 hour days F'ing blows...
10-20-2009, 07:32 PM
#16
I have to admit that I'm one of those that will ask questions multiple times just to be sure. My apologies.
I'll be picking up the AEM F/IC and bigger injectors and will have it properly tuned with the HBP sometime in the near future.
As for the injectors...does it matter what year for the RSX injectors or are they all the same?
My apologies.I'll be picking up the AEM F/IC and bigger injectors and will have it properly tuned with the HBP sometime in the near future.
As for the injectors...does it matter what year for the RSX injectors or are they all the same?
10-20-2009, 07:44 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
I have to admit that I'm one of those that will ask questions multiple times just to be sure. My apologies.
I'll be picking up the AEM F/IC and bigger injectors and will have it properly tuned with the HBP sometime in the near future.
As for the injectors...does it matter what year for the RSX injectors or are they all the same?
My apologies.I'll be picking up the AEM F/IC and bigger injectors and will have it properly tuned with the HBP sometime in the near future.
As for the injectors...does it matter what year for the RSX injectors or are they all the same?
good move...and injectors...the latest rsx.
if someone has diff info, please correct it.
10-20-2009, 09:49 PM
#18
^ i second that
abnorm, do you have a wideband 02 gauge yet?? if not, that should be your number 1 priority at this time. number 2 should be the FI/C along with the 310cc injectors. any year rsx-s injectors will do, but make sure they are the type-s, not the base rsx. troll around the rsx forums, like and you can find them for pretty cheap over there, only catch is you have to buy 2 sets of 4
forget about the HBP for now. just concentrate on getting the full potential out of your car using stock size pulley first, enjoy it for awhile, THEN think about adding it later down the road.
I have to admit that I'm one of those that will ask questions multiple times just to be sure. My apologies.
I'll be picking up the AEM F/IC and bigger injectors and will have it properly tuned with the HBP sometime in the near future.
As for the injectors...does it matter what year for the RSX injectors or are they all the same?
My apologies.I'll be picking up the AEM F/IC and bigger injectors and will have it properly tuned with the HBP sometime in the near future.
As for the injectors...does it matter what year for the RSX injectors or are they all the same?
forget about the HBP for now. just concentrate on getting the full potential out of your car using stock size pulley first, enjoy it for awhile, THEN think about adding it later down the road.
10-20-2009, 10:00 PM
#19
AZ Community Team
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N35°03'16.75", W 080°51'0.9"
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Isn't that what a sticky is for. Allowing the compilation of true information so it doesn't get lost in the sea of off topic responses that we are all guilty of doing?
If a mod reads this, is there any way for some of the more knowledgeable people like IHC, Opel, bmeyer, etc to do something like this? I may be volunteering them for something they don't want to do, but Opel is right. There are too many repeat questions but it is also very hard to find information with the search function.
If a mod reads this, is there any way for some of the more knowledgeable people like IHC, Opel, bmeyer, etc to do something like this? I may be volunteering them for something they don't want to do, but Opel is right. There are too many repeat questions but it is also very hard to find information with the search function.
If yoiu guys put your heads together and write a comprehensive "info sheet", "tuning guide" and setup instructions for SC, and send it to me (or post it and PM me) we can work something out so it doesn't get polluted with inane quesitons.
10-21-2009, 05:33 AM
#20
number 2 should be the FI/C along with the 310cc injectors. any year rsx-s injectors will do, but make sure they are the type-s, not the base rsx. troll around the rsx forums, like and you can find them for pretty cheap over there, only catch is you have to buy 2 sets of 4
10-21-2009, 06:44 PM
#21
What would the O2 gauge do?
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67
Glad you mentioned this! I went around looking for injectors for the base RSX. When you say to check out the rsx forums, I'm assuming you mean there are venders over there that will sell them? Also, I should look for Acura OEM injectors and not aftermarket right?
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67
Glad you mentioned this! I went around looking for injectors for the base RSX. When you say to check out the rsx forums, I'm assuming you mean there are venders over there that will sell them? Also, I should look for Acura OEM injectors and not aftermarket right?
OEM's like the rsx-s injectors are best, since they are direct PnP
10-21-2009, 08:43 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
A/F gauge, and wideband 02 gauge do the same thing... they monitor Air/Fuel:Ratio
10-26-2009, 12:12 AM
#26
302.7 WHP 251.3 Torque
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburg, CA
Age: 75
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Hello:
Here is my order for new injectors..
I hope it helps..
They were ordered July, 2007.
Tim
Items Ordered:
Item: Fuel system, Fuel induction, Fuel injection, Injector, Injector, rsx, type s
Price: $98.03
Tax: $0.00
Qty: 6
Total: $588.18
-----------------------------
Items Total: $588.18
Shipping: $147.04
Handling Fee: $5.00
Order Total: $740.23
We recommend that you print a copy of this email for your records.
To view the status of your order, go to:
http://www.OEMAcuraParts.com , and click on Order Status.
Here is my order for new injectors..
I hope it helps..
They were ordered July, 2007.
Tim
Items Ordered:
Item: Fuel system, Fuel induction, Fuel injection, Injector, Injector, rsx, type s
Price: $98.03
Tax: $0.00
Qty: 6
Total: $588.18
-----------------------------
Items Total: $588.18
Shipping: $147.04
Handling Fee: $5.00
Order Total: $740.23
We recommend that you print a copy of this email for your records.
To view the status of your order, go to:
http://www.OEMAcuraParts.com , and click on Order Status.
10-26-2009, 02:34 AM
#27
Hello:
Here is my order for new injectors..
I hope it helps..
They were ordered July, 2007.
Tim
Items Ordered:
Item: Fuel system, Fuel induction, Fuel injection, Injector, Injector, rsx, type s
Price: $98.03
Tax: $0.00
Qty: 6
Total: $588.18
-----------------------------
Items Total: $588.18
Shipping: $147.04
Handling Fee: $5.00
Order Total: $740.23
We recommend that you print a copy of this email for your records.
To view the status of your order, go to:
http://www.OEMAcuraParts.com , and click on Order Status.
Here is my order for new injectors..
I hope it helps..
They were ordered July, 2007.
Tim
Items Ordered:
Item: Fuel system, Fuel induction, Fuel injection, Injector, Injector, rsx, type s
Price: $98.03
Tax: $0.00
Qty: 6
Total: $588.18
-----------------------------
Items Total: $588.18
Shipping: $147.04
Handling Fee: $5.00
Order Total: $740.23
We recommend that you print a copy of this email for your records.
To view the status of your order, go to:
http://www.OEMAcuraParts.com , and click on Order Status.
O_0 WTF!!!
thats why you dont EVER buy them new =/ honda/acura make some of the most reliable injectors in todays market, no need for a brand spanking new set. i bought all six of mine for 125.00 bucks. shoot, most junkyard have them and only cost around 25. ea or so.
10-26-2009, 09:41 AM
#30
I'm definitely not buying new ones. I check oemacuraparts last week and it was over $100 each. I trying to get them used but from what I can tell, these go pretty quick.
If I can only get my hands on injectors from an '03 or '04 model, should i go for it? Is there a certain mileage i should stay away from...say 75k miles and above?
I was thinking that I've never had to replace my fuel injectors on any of the 7-8 cars I've owned. Do these parts even wear out???
If I can only get my hands on injectors from an '03 or '04 model, should i go for it? Is there a certain mileage i should stay away from...say 75k miles and above?
I was thinking that I've never had to replace my fuel injectors on any of the 7-8 cars I've owned. Do these parts even wear out???
10-26-2009, 11:14 AM
#31
Team Owner
I'm definitely not buying new ones. I check oemacuraparts last week and it was over $100 each. I trying to get them used but from what I can tell, these go pretty quick.
If I can only get my hands on injectors from an '03 or '04 model, should i go for it? Is there a certain mileage i should stay away from...say 75k miles and above?
I was thinking that I've never had to replace my fuel injectors on any of the 7-8 cars I've owned. Do these parts even wear out???
If I can only get my hands on injectors from an '03 or '04 model, should i go for it? Is there a certain mileage i should stay away from...say 75k miles and above?
I was thinking that I've never had to replace my fuel injectors on any of the 7-8 cars I've owned. Do these parts even wear out???
One secret, race injector prices have gone way down due to flex fuel vehicles. Even my 60lb/hr injectors on the GN were cheap because they were OEM equipment on some flex fuel vehicle. I've got a set of new 28lb/hr stock injectors which should be quite a bit larger than the TL injectors, if they will work you can have them free. I've never looked at the Honda injectors but chances are they're made by Bosch or Siemens and are nothing special, probably in use on other cars as well.
10-26-2009, 04:01 PM
#32
IHC - There were a few people who said to get the RSX Type S injectors...something about them being pretty much a "plug and play". All I know is that they're 310cc and that I can probably get a used set of 4 for around $50. I just didn't know if it would be ok to get a set from a 2003 or 2004 model, possible having over 75k miles?
If I go aftermarket, would it cause any additional work?
If I go aftermarket, would it cause any additional work?
10-27-2009, 05:29 PM
#34
Got a set of 4 used injectors for $45...need to buy find one more set.
Now I have to get the AEM F/IC and Harness and have a question...surprise surprise!
I had assumed the harness would just plug into the AEM and you're ready to go but Josh mentioned it would cost $150 to make the harness plug and play. My skills are EXTREMELY limited. Would i be better off just paying the $150 or is this something that's very easy to do?
Now I have to get the AEM F/IC and Harness and have a question...surprise surprise!
I had assumed the harness would just plug into the AEM and you're ready to go but Josh mentioned it would cost $150 to make the harness plug and play. My skills are EXTREMELY limited. Would i be better off just paying the $150 or is this something that's very easy to do?
10-28-2009, 07:42 PM
#39
No problem.
It's worth mentioning that Paul also removes all of the unused wires from the F/IC harness and leaves the O2 taps (which I've yet to find out how to use on our cars) as well as the input switch and analog input. Which is great because it leaves a tidy harness.
I have the input hooked up to my water/meth kit as the 'safe' out and that triggers my less aggressive map. My analog input is connected to my LM-2 output so that I can log my A/F ratios directly from my LM-2 wideband sensor.
It's worth mentioning that Paul also removes all of the unused wires from the F/IC harness and leaves the O2 taps (which I've yet to find out how to use on our cars) as well as the input switch and analog input. Which is great because it leaves a tidy harness.
I have the input hooked up to my water/meth kit as the 'safe' out and that triggers my less aggressive map. My analog input is connected to my LM-2 output so that I can log my A/F ratios directly from my LM-2 wideband sensor.
10-29-2009, 12:33 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
No problem.
It's worth mentioning that Paul also removes all of the unused wires from the F/IC harness and leaves the O2 taps (which I've yet to find out how to use on our cars) as well as the input switch and analog input. Which is great because it leaves a tidy harness.
I have the input hooked up to my water/meth kit as the 'safe' out and that triggers my less aggressive map. My analog input is connected to my LM-2 output so that I can log my A/F ratios directly from my LM-2 wideband sensor.
It's worth mentioning that Paul also removes all of the unused wires from the F/IC harness and leaves the O2 taps (which I've yet to find out how to use on our cars) as well as the input switch and analog input. Which is great because it leaves a tidy harness.
I have the input hooked up to my water/meth kit as the 'safe' out and that triggers my less aggressive map. My analog input is connected to my LM-2 output so that I can log my A/F ratios directly from my LM-2 wideband sensor.
all those things are cool though...being able to log and pull out info.
Im at a stale right now..im on the verge, and have been for quiet some time now, about upgrading the fuel system and getting the F/IC so i can run the 9 psi pulley.. its been a fight in my head between this and just getting the turbo!
If i did get the turbo, getting the fuel system upgraded and the F/IC would be pointless, since all that stuff comes with the turbo kit.
But if i completely decide to stay with the SC for now, then the next step is injectors, fuel pump and F/IC.
Right now my fuel is maxed at 6.5 psi, and methanol is making up for some of it.
Ive been able to afford running untuned, or in other worlds with the CT ACM, due to the fact that im running lower CR on forged pistons.
Otherwise I would've blown this motor too lol.
so i will see in the near future..either break into 400s Whp with the mp62 blower and keep it that way, or go turbo and boost the living crap of this motor!
another issue..pointless to make any additional power when my clutch isn't holding what i already have ..so i gotta address that too..goddamn $$$$ lol
stuck in a 4-way intersection with a blinking light, not knowing which way to go lol