K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

Installed my precat deletes 2 weekends ago with no problems besides the install being what it is. Didnt really drive my car last week due to being out of town. Maybe put 200 miles on it. This past weekend, under normal driving conditions (not WOT) i sprung a CEL. My dad is a Honda tech so we ran diagnostics and sure enough it was the O2 sensor. With him being an old-school 30 yr tech, i got nothing but "I told you so" from him! Never-the-less, we cleared it Monday and I went up to work so I put on another 150 miles with no CEL. This morning I was driving to work and there it was again, CEL! My question is I thought the defoulers were there to trick our car into the correct reading? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Tripnbeats

have you done anything other than the precats to the car??? if you didnt mod anything on top of the motor thats the prob ex:intake,throttle body spacer, manifold spacer. you need to contact richie he has other defoulers to install....i believe everyone whos installed them hasnt had a problem

Tripnbeats

I was having an issue because i had more air than fuel so when i did the precat install the bands opened up a bit and the computer corrected itself.

K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

tripnbeats, yea everything in my sig in currently on my car. I have read about the different defoulers on prior threads so I was kinda thinking that would be the right way to go, just wanted to get some imput from others.

Tripnbeats

yea def hit up richie he has diff defoulers.... lol i didnt see the sig before.

K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

haha, no biggie. i just didnt want to go and type it all again! I already put an email out to him so I should be good to go once I hear back from him...

pffpffpass

iTrader: (2)

Thats odd.. I have over 1000 miles since precats with no CELs ever..

Tripnbeats

pff did u get the new or old defoulers.....im pretty sure i have the old ones but in my case i needed to register more exhaust on mine so i can get the right amount of fuel dumped into the motor

I hate cars

The precats and secondary 02s don't affect mixture whatsoever. The primary wideband 02s near the head are the only ones used to correct A/F before it enters the cat or cat delete. The others are just for checking catalytic efficiency. You get a CEL because it thinks the cat isn't doing it's job.

pffpffpass

iTrader: (2)

I believe I have the new ones..

K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

did the deletes come with different defoulers reccently? only reason asking is I got my deletes about a month ago...just wondering if they were changed or you needed to get the replacement ones and swap them out after the fact? Im hoping the second, due to having a CEL with the current ones!

erick3

i don't understand how that works - what's the point of the filter in the cat then? i would imagine that the primary o2 would be as is...reading what comes out of the manifold; shouldn't it be the same reading for with and without the pre-cats? or are the cats somehow free flowing? i'd imagine the secondary o2 sensors to take the "cel sensitive" reading, since it's after the filter...? no? explain...please!

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

did you reset ECU after the install? ( from what i remember reading, i think your suppose to for any new install basically)

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Mine have been running with a CEL on since about 10 miles from the shop where I had them installed. But I got in on the first batch....may have the old/wrong defoulers installed then...because I have pretty much most of the mods anybody would put on there more or less.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

Here's the deal, richie's defoulers are custom made


Meaning he went personally to autozone and made "defoulers" out of spak plug non-foulers

This as most of you know is a courtesy as damn near all race headers for other cars never come them

Out of curiosity did you use cruise control?

Here's the full explanation
Some ecu's have different rom's... The ecu on like 1 out of every 10 precat deletes sold decides to read bank 1 or 2 stuck lean (p0173 or p0174)

You can do 1 of 2 things
A. Get "modified" defoulers from richie (modified because he drills a smaller opening on the tip of the defouler so it reads less)
B. Have acura update the rom on ur ecu

Good luck...

Ps. the specific check engine codes mentioned above do not reduce the performance of your car

milk man

just need defoulers pm richie he will hook it for you up...

from time to time i ll get a cel that pops up but it goes away by itself

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

^ shell gas

I hate cars

There is no filter in the cat.

The primary 02 sensor is there to check the air/fuel ratio. The computer will adjust based on what the primary 02 says. This is the only one that is used for A/F control.

Exhaust goes through the catalytic convertor and chemically changes to reduce emissions. The 02 after the convertor is looking to see something different than what went in. It's not used for A/F calculations, only to make sure the convertor is working.

K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

ok, thanks guys with the help...was in contact with rich and hes going to send me the modified defoulers. I did reset ECU after install, I wasnt using cruise control, use only 93 octane gas and know that the code doesnt effect performance. Its just annoying to look down at that light!!!! haha. Plus dealing with my dad (30yr Honda Tech) is getting annoying with all of the "I told you so"'s on the aftermarket parts when they do something out of the ordinary!!!

Tripnbeats

I hate cars youre right but theres 2 primaries... so does that mean that each sensor has a role to play for 3 pistons?
theres a proccess acura uses to get the code to pop up..... i posted it somewhere in another thread....so if u do the proccess correctly and theres no code then theres no prob. Youre supposed to reset the computer after every mod... thats y they say in most instructions to take the negtive side of the battery off.

milk man

yup how do you know

GTkim83

yeah seriously Al HOW!? lol

thevnct

^ is that really true? cuz i juss switch from chevron to shell and my cel came up. yesterdai. thats weird, but i love this site haha

I hate cars

No way. Both are top tier gas stations. You can do every other tank shell and then Chevron and never have a single problem.

The only way gas can make the CEL come on is by making it misfire which will only happen if it's old or it has water in it.

I hate cars

Sorry I didn't see this till now.

The computer will check the secondary 02 against the primary 02 to see if the cat is working. It's looking for a change in the exhaust oxygen content after the convertor. If both 02s read the same (which they will with the deletes) it knows the cat isn't doing it's job and throws a code.

Resetting the ECM might reset the short and long term fuel trims. That's the only reason I can think of for resetting, otherwise it's just a myth that it has to be done.

K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

Well guys im still running with a CEL and hope it not my sensor itself? Im currently running with these codes:

P2271 "Bank 1 Sensor 2 Stuck Rich"
P0159 "Bank 2 Sensor 2 Slow Response"

Anyone have any ideas??? I received the "modified" (smaller opening) defoulers from Rich but still have the CEL. I clear the CEL and but it comes back around 300 miles worth of driving. Never had a CEL before I put the deletes in. Any help is much appreciated!!!

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

i was going to say, you probably damaged the o2 sensor by banging it against something. they are very sensitive. i would just buy a new o2 sensor. all should be well then

I hate cars

Both number 2 sensors which I assume is the sensor downstream of the cats and on both banks. The odds are against both sensors going bad at the same time.

The defoulers are the wrong way of fooling the ECM. I've never done the research on the TL but here's what you guys need to start looking at, 02 simulators: http://www.cimotorsports.net/motor-s...simulator.html

This only right way to fool the ECM and assure the light never comes on again is to do it electronically. There are many different ones out there. I'm sure with a little research someone will find the simulator that works with the TL.

Tripnbeats

im curious, y do u say defoulers r the wrong way to trick the ecm?? it seems ok....unless u have a piggy back or another ecm running the engine maps..... then youd need to let the sensors sit in the banks to correctly tune the car. the defoulers i guess give the car some kind of deviation that it can adjust a/f by itself within the ecm's parameters. Ive looked into the sims too but i havent found any that do wide n narrow bands. If you also look at the sensors they have lets say 5 wires on the sensor side and 7 on the harness side of the car. somewhere they have a couple of wires jumped inside of the sensor plug..... id be paranoid and i am paranoid to get a sim thats not specifically made for this car.

K_Johansen

iTrader: (2)

So worse case senario, saying I damaged both sensors and need replacements....(which I highly doubt)

Would these be the correct ones to order?

Numbers 011 and 013 on this page:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

Tripnbeats

yup those r the ones.

thevnct

my cel went away after i went back to chevron gas. so thats kinda weird, iono if i should use shell or chevron now.

I hate cars

The reason I don't like the defoulers is it's a shot in the dark. You're moving the sensors away from the exhaust stream and hoping it alters the readings enough to satisfy the ECM. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

The simulators work 100% of the time. I have tons of friends in the LSx world that ran them back in the day and never had a single problem.

Really, the light is more of an annoyance than anything. The secondary sensors don't affect mixture so it's business as usual for the engine and ECM.