e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Ow, I just ordered 8 quarts, I figured I'd mix it with the Amsoil I have.

Dopes6070

Figured I would ask for your guys thoughts on running this stuff in my 2G RL. Ive got 97k miles and it shifts well, but I definatly feel the pause while it shifts. If a different fluid can change that then I want to give it a try... I'm definatly willing to take the risk even though I dont think there is one since I would have no problem swapping the trans if needed. I love those kind of weekend projects!

Inaccurate

Correct. To reach 99%, it will take 30 quarts. Yes, that's $330, not including shipping.

I hate cars

I think you'll be fine.

We don't notice a large difference that you can feel because the computer partially closes the throttle right when it shifts. We see the tach drop much quicker and they're more "snappy"

You would probably feel the shifts a little more. But look at it this way, you're a pioneer.

I can't recommend it because I haven't done it on a non DBW car but I know with 90% certainty that you will be ok and the trans will likely last longer. Just do a 1x3 at a time. There's no way it will be too firm with just a single drain and fill.

There's also the chance that if it has a "bump shift" that many of these car have with the super FM factory fluid, you may notice a shift that feels softer even though it's quicker and firmer if that makes any sense.

Inaccurate

What exactly did you order -

RedLine D4, or RedLine Racing ATF, or RedLine Lightweight Racing ATF ?

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

2 30305 Racing ATF - gallon $43.95 $87.90

Won't be the first time I blaze a trail. I am pretty sure I have the first J35A4 in a CLS with RL Pistons, 3.7 crank, CLS heads & a 09 IM.

Guess we'll see what happens, if the trans dies it will force me to find a viable 6MT for the swap.

Thanks guys.

I hate cars

LOL. I think 90% is good enough for me...

I was thinking about doing a "flush". Not a power flush.

I don't remember if you've installed a cooler but if so, you can get it to 100% with only 12 quarts or less.

Do a drain and fill. Undo a cooler line and put it into a 5 gallon bucket. Start the engine and add fluid into the fill hole at the rate it's coming out.

There is no way it can hurt the trans, no harder on the trans than a drain and fill.

The fluid follows a one way path so if you had old dark fluid in the there, you will see an abrupt transition from dark to bright red in a matter of a second or two.

I think we both did it the common way because we were going into the unknown and testing the waters slowly but assuming this works out and we know 100% racing fluid works fine, for the newbs joining us it would be a much cheaper and better way.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I have a cooler so that is easier, but there is less than 1500 miles on the Z1 that is in there so I doubt I'll see a difference.

Inaccurate

cabrio,

I do *not* think it will harm the trans. I do not recommend for a second gen to use the racing fluid just becuase of the neck whiplash. Who knows, you might enjoy the feel . Please keep us updated.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Que sera sera. lol

I almost did a six speed swap when I did the engine, I just could not find a reasonably priced salvage 6MT (crazy salvage yards want 5-7k for totaled cars) in time, I am still looking for a sub 5k car.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

you know something, I was actually thinking about doing this when I installed my tranny cooler but I didnt know if it would work. The one thing I didnt think of was adding fluid at the same rate as its coming out like you said.

I guess there always has to be some fluid in the trans when its on.

I hate cars

It works really well. When I worked at a trans shop many years ago, this is the method we used. There's no danger in this process vs a power flush and you get 100% new fluid without wasting a bunch of fluid.

Usually starting the engine and dumping a quart upside down to fill it will give you the right rate. When you get down to your last few quarts you should shut the engine off and check the level to see where you're at.

I think I'm going to do this the next time because my drain plug has a bad feel like it's going to strip eventually. I would rather loosen it once instead of 3 times.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I need to pull the hose on the side where it enters the cooler on the left?

I hate cars

I'm not sure which one is the pressure and which one is the return. You could pull both and crank it over real quick to find out. The return will not be under vacuum so it won't hurt anything to leave it open while you do this.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

The one on the right goes where the hose after the filter went into the banjo fitting that seemed to go back into the transmission.

I'll pull the one on the right to verify my theory since I think it is return so should do nothing.

WHEEELMAN

iTrader: (14)

e30cabrio, thanks for taking the initiative and "testing" a low FM tranny fluid on that 2nd gen CL tranny.

I'd like to use this stuff, in addition to a tranny cooler, when I have the 4 speed swapped to an oddy/pilot 5 speed auto to make it last longer.


I have a question on the viscosity info:
e30cabrio plans to use the Racing ATF
Inaccurate is using the Lightweight Racing ATF

What would be the difference between the 2? ...like, less of a chance on the fluid burning when using a higher viscosity?

also, if one were to use the tranny cooler, i'm guessing this is going to keep the temps down and would lower the possibility of the Lightweight Racing ATF(lower viscosity) to "burn up"?

libert69

iTrader: (7)

e30cabrio,

you can check this trans cooler DIY i made for the 3rd. Theres pics showing which is the feed line and which is the return line. I think the second gen is the same

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Thanks, it is not clear which is which, do you remember if it was the hose that went to the top or bottom in yours?

They seem to be the same coolers.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^forgot the link https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/116-diy-transmission-cooler-5at-magnefine-filter-lots-pics-754752/

the banjo fitting that comes out of the stock trans filter is the feed line. I attached this line to the top of the tranny cooler

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I found the thread, the one on your top is the one on my left. Thanks,

Inaccurate

With RedLine using top notch synthetic base stock, I think that "burning" is not an issue.

The lightweight racing ATF is marketed as being able to dissipate heat more quickly than normal viscosity ATF.

The lightweight has a viscosity of 4.9. The RedLine Racing ATF is 10. Typical ATF's are somewhere in the 7’s.

Compared to typical ATF, the RedLine Racing is thick. But in my opinion, the Lightweight is too thin. I am aiming for an overall viscosity of 6.0. To accomplish an overall viscosity of 6.0, I will mix the RedLine Lightweight with the RedLine Racing ATF.

If an ATF is too thin, it will lack sufficient lubrication to protect the gears and bearings. The advantage to a thin fluid is that the fluid can transfer heat quick, causing the fluid to run cooler. Another advantage of the thin fluid is that the fluid will travel more quickly thru the passages for quicker shifts.

If a fluid is too thick, there will be unnecessary parasitic drag and less heat transfer causing the fluid to run hotter. Another disadvantage to thick fluid is that the fluid is slower to flow thru the passages, causing slower shifts. The advantage to a thick ATF is superior gear and bearing protection.

Note – The above comparisons of thin and thick viscosities assumes that the line pressure is the same for both. In some cases, the thick fluid might cause the line pressure to become higher, thus compensating for the sluggish fluid travel thru the passages. The thin fluid in some cases might cause lower line pressures, thus mitigating/lessening the effects of being able to travel more quickly thru the passages. However, RedLine has hinted that the their Lightweight Racing ATF has not demonstrated any cases of lowered line pressure.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Do you know what viscosity Amsoil Universal is? My plan was to mix about 80% redline Racing with it.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I found it, is this the value?

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 7.6

I hate cars

That's the one. It's pretty average viscosity wise.

The ATD I'm using is 7.4.

The new "fuel efficiency" fluid is 6.0

The racing formula is 7.0 I believe.

I think they actually thickened the standard "atf" because when I bought the ATD years ago it was thicker than the ATF.


The fuel efficiency formula is interesting with it's 6.0 @ 100c it's slightly thinner but signficantly thinner at 40c which is a typical summer startup temp.


Now take a look at the equivalent Redline fluids and you'll see that it kicks Amsoil's ass in viscosity index.

Pick any fluid with a similar 100c visc and look at it's 40c viscosity and you'll see Redline starts out significantly thinner at startup (40c) even though it ends up at the same hot viscosity. This is a win-win.

Another way of putting it is most of the Redline's products don't thicken as much when cold and don't thin as much when hot.

The lightweight racing fluid is a little scary at first glance. It's a little on the thin side but who knows, with the great base oil and good additives, it may do better than Z1.

I have a feeling if you take both the Z1 and Redline lightweight fluid out to 150c which is possible in a very hard running auto in summer, the Redline is likely thicker at that temp.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

It never gets below 40 here & in the summer average temps are 115, high is over 120.

115 is all summer long never going below 90 even at 3am.

I am going to contact Redline & see if I can change for the lightweight.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Wow, what a difference. I called Redline, a person answered in 1/2 a ring, I said I need help with an order I placed online and was surprised when she said how can I help?

I told her I wanted to change my order, she asked me how I wanted it changed, I told her and was done!

Calling Amsoil is a total pita. Isn't is great when things are easy?

pimpin-tl

I never had issues ordering Amsoil stuff. Call place the order or online.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I have always ordered online, no issues there but when I needed help it was another story.

WHEEELMAN

iTrader: (14)

Ahhh, I see Inaccurate. That is a good explanation to my questions. Thank you.

Appreciate your input also IHC.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

2nd drain and fill with Amsoils super shift racing fluid was done today. Like Inaccurate said, I can now feel a difference in the shifts. This is how I can explain the difference.

I really don't see the tach moving the needle faster to indicate the shift was completed at WOT. However, I can feel the transmission grab and hold the next gear before the tach needle drops to the next gear. For example, while going WOT in 2nd gear, the transmission shifts to 3rd at 6500rpms. I actually feel the trans grab 3rd gear and complete the shift immediately at 6500rpms. Right at that moment of 3rd gear engagement, the rpms continue to climb another 100-200rpms but the shift is already completed.

This is the only thing I can think of and I don't even know if it makes sense so maybe someone else can confirm or reject it. I think that the computer allows a very small amount of a time delay between shifts to allow for the smooth shifts with the stock z1 loaded with FM. When using the z1, you would never feel or see this delay because the shift was slow. Since the addition of the type-F fluid, the computer is still allowing this small time delay to happen but the shift is completed almost instantly so the rpms continue to climb a small bit before dropping into the next gear.

pimpin-tl

I got my Amsoil yesterday, just no time to start the changes. I am hoping Thursday maybe.

I hate cars

I think what you're feeling is the DBW doing it's thing.

In stock form, the throttle is closed as the shift begins and reopened right when it's completed. Now it's completing the shift much quicker so it completes the shift and then the throttle is reapplied. I could barely feel this with the D4 right before it hit full temp, maybe a little more pronounced with the racing fluid.

For what it's worth, the computer doesn't have such fine control of the shifts as to control the actual shift speed. I wish it did though.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^Well that makes sense then. Under normal driving I dont notice much difference. Its a totally different feeling when going wot

Inaccurate

I have not did my write-up yet for my third drain. But, this *is* the subtle difference with the third drain.

The shifts at very light to meduim light throttle are now completed without the pause. Previous before my third drain, my light throttle shifts were still bah, silence (very short duration), bah. After this thrid drain, light throttle is now bah, bah.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^ thats good to hear. I have 9 more quarts arriving tomorrow. I think ill be happy with about 90% amsoil type-F and 10% amsoil synth atf

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I have 4 quarts of Redline racing & four lightweight racing coming today, as well as 10 quarts of Amsoil Universal. What drain & fill process do you guys recommend?

The fluid currently in my Cls is <1500 Z1.

Does anyone think I should get the second filter in the write up? I have a cooler.

Inaccurate

cabrio,

I think you should do a drain and refill with

2 qts Lightweight + 1 qts Racing

According to the experiences that we have been seeing thus far, that first 3 qts of non-FM is pretty harmless. It will be during your second drain/refill that you will need to be cautious.

pimpin-tl

Guys, I just did my one drain and fill with Amsoil ATF. Man those bolts were a b**** to get off. But I was able to get them off obviously. I had 3 1/2 quarts drain. So I put 3 1/2 back in, and filled it up where the dipstick read half way between both holes. Went for a drive, and after a bit of driving, I could tell the car actually started to shift without me feeling it at all, but also faster. It definitely feels happier. I plan to do the next few in the coming weeks, just the next few weeks are going to be crazy for me.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Got the Redline, they sent four stickers, I have been buying Amsoil for years, never got a sticker!

I keep forgetting to ask, both the transmission shop that R&Rd the transmission to replace the rear main seal & the mechanic that just replaced the motor filled the fluid 1/2 way between the dipstick fill lines above the second line.

I have read it is bad to over fill but it seems odd they both independently did it.

Is that where I need to fill it to?

Inaccurate

cabrio,

I have always be told the same, that overfilling the trans is risky.

I always aim for anywhere between 1/2 and Full mark. I would not stress over it unless you were somthing like 1/8 inch past the Full mark.

Alos, remember to start the car for a few seconds and then turn the engine off immediately before checking the fluid level.