so i already found out how to send in my ecu to remove the 134 governor, but what from what Ive read here, there is no turbo/supercharger setup for the 3.5 engine setup? i just came into lots of money so can someone point me in the direction of a company that would be able to custom fabricate that for me. Also and i know this sounds crazy i want to do a AWD sh swap plz tell me what companies would be able to accomplish this and a ballpark figure wouldn't hurt either.

its a type s

 

there is a turbo kit available for the 3rd gen tl's and tl-s'

there are already two turbo tl's out there. one is an 04 6spd and the other a 6spd type s

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/turbo-kit-acura-tl-04-08-a-718808/

 

How did you remove the governor?

 

As it was mentioned, there is a very, very nice turbo setup available. If I were to go and pick out the best of the best parts regardless of price I would pick out exactly what they have in the kit. It is a very reliable complete kit. The price may seem high but keep in mind it makes over 100hp more than the supercharger kit, over double the factory hp, and it's much, much more reliable than the supercharger kit. On top of that, all you have to buy is a cat back exhaust to go with it. EVERYTHING is included in the kit so the price really isn't that bad.

The torque is insane, over 400lbs at the wheels starting from a very low rpm. The hp is over 400 at the wheels. Going by typical manufacturer's ratings at the crank, this is a 500+ hp TL. This is the only mod that will put the TL on the map with the serious contenders. I just can't say enough about this kit.

You say you came into a lot of money, I hope so because the AWD is going to cost you an arm and a leg to have everything fabricated. If you do it, do if because you like to be different because it would probably be cheaper to go out and buy an RL.

I suggest getting the turbo kit and driving it around for a few months to see how you like it. The stock 5at will already be the weak link in a FWD setup, the AWD will just break it quicker.

Inaccurate and myself are in the early stages of development with some mods to increase the holding power and reliability of the 5at. We have high hopes that just a fluid change over to Redline's version of the Ford Type F fluid will be enough to make the 5at stand up to the 400+lbs of torque of the turbo setup.

 

Just saw it's a type s. You're one step up on the auto already. Good luck.

 

How can anyone say that this turbo kit is more reliable than the supercharger?

 

Because it is.

There are only a few around but Rodney has beat the living hell out of it at hp levels the supercharger could only dream about.

Way back when the supercharger was released I told people it was going to blow engines due to the lack of proper engine management and an intercooler. Sure enough, engines started blowing. This so called "kit" crushed the FP regulator to raise fuel pressure!!! Primative does not begin to describe it.

The turbo uses proper engine management. It's been tested and it's easy to predict the results. The supercharged TLs haven't been blowing because of excess power. The turbo TLs with 100hp more have proven that. They were blowing due to a lack of engine management which the turbo kit solves.

On top of the management you've got charge air that's over 100F cooler.

If I remember right, the turbo kit has made 500whp or very close to it and then backed off to the lower hp levels just to ensure reliability.

 

I think we need more turbo TL's to even begin to discuss the reliability. There are plenty of SC TL's that have been problem free with factory warranties being daily driven for years. I do agree its not a very good platform if max HP is your goal. thats when the problems arise. Most of the blown engines have been on cars where they have been pushed really hard . high boost pulleys etc.

I would love to see the turbo TL's be reliable, I just think at those HP levels there are going to be alot of weaknesses that were never apparent with the SC that will develop.

So I agree that the turbo will generate alot more HP reliably, I am just afraid I wont be able to drive it because the tranny is gone or my axles are broke, etc.

 

Just take the turbo kit and tune it at 60-100whp more than stock. Then you are in the same hp range as the SC and it will be just as reliable with regard to the other components.

 

I agree that the turbo is going to push other components much harder. I should've clarified that I was talking about engine reliability. I get tunnel vision sometimes.

What I've run into in the many FI cars I've built and raced is you can usually push the stock engine very far if the tune is correct. I've posted my experiences on my own car, blowing the engine twice when I only ran 12s yet it's reliable in the 10s now. Only thing that's changed is I've got the tuning game down very well now.

The thing to think about is the supercharged cars that are pushed hard with the HBP still don't make anywhere near the hp levels of the base turbo kit. The HBP made an existing problem worse but did not create problems of it's own.

I said a year ago that it wasn't the hp blowing these engines, it was detonation caused by a very poor tune.

Time will show that the turbo cars with much more hp will be much more reliable with the lack of detonation.

Of course you're right, I'm sure we will see more transmission and axle failures especially with the torque these things make.

 

you can have the kit tuned to your desired power.....i've been a part of the abuse of these two cars and the 07 TL-S turbo has not given us a problem since we had it because the car is tuned to be reliable... we have driven the cars on various amounts of power to see whats safe for the long run and whats safe in this weather........ any increase in power after that would have to be at you own risk.......

I've in both cars with the A/C on just cruising without even going into boost and its 86 degrees outside... i've also been in the car doing 150+ with the heat on in 52 degree weather. a 450+whp TL feels real nice.... im not quite sure what the max is on the S/C...

 

Are you arguing the power of a Turbo?
I don't believe that is point.

Also, i don't think one TL (that's still in the process of tuning) is viable proof of proven reliability. There are tests of time that must be shown/proven before an argument.
In theory... Sure, sounds good.
But so did Communism/Marxism.

I'm not here to be negative, but this subject has been beaten to death.

 

the OP was asking about reliability...... 2 turbo TL's have been pretty reliable so far...

one has is currently being fixed because we were pushing the envelope with power...Darin's car has been tuned but we're going back and forth with what works better. i'm sure you've seen the a/f ratio. im pretty sure you read about the update from Hondata. we've put over 2k miles on the car which takes time and we've posted dyno pulls and street videos

I'm not here to be negative, but this subject has been beaten to death when there were no turbo TL's in existance. The goal of the entire kit is to be reliable, which is why my previous post stated the the car has been pushed in the short and long run with a/c or heat and the car has been driven without even going into boost

 

To me, 2 turbo TL's have been pretty reliable so far... is not an argument nor a valid statement.

One of the two is currently being fixed?... therefore, only 50% of your theory is even on topic.

I understand this kit is still in progress and wish all the best for it. It brings our cars to a whole new platform. And really into the competitive stages with other companies known for performance.

If I were Darin's friend, I would be just as hyped up too.

 

i completely understand where you're coming from. i guess my faith in the kit has me thinking too far ahead
as stated twice before, there is no argument.. the point im trying to make is that it can and possibly will be.... i guess i wasnt using the proper choice of words. Darin's car has been reliable so far being daily driven at over 400hp both in traffic and highway..... as stated before also, one is being fixed because we went outside the box of reliability with the plans Rodney has for his TL....

comparing the hundreds maybe thousands of S/C's TL's to the two turbo TL's will never be an argument nor a valid statement

 

Predicting reliability is easier than you make it out to be.

Supercharged TLs had severe detonation to contend with. This is what was blowing them up. The pressure and stress associated with the detonation easily surpasses the stress of 1,000hp on internals. All the turbo TLs have to contend with is pure power. 500whp is nothing stress wise compared to 200whp and detonation. This is why it was so easy for me to predict that the supercharged TLs were going to start blowing.

Keep in mind, this turbo TL has been around longer than some of the supercharged TLs before blowing. Also, one is down for a clutch, not engine issues. I fully admit that the 400+whp of the turbo is going to be harder on the drivetrain than the 300+hp of the supercharger. However, I can tell you with a fair amount of certainty that the 400+hp of the well tuned turbo kit will be MUCH easier on engine internals.

Of course, time will tell but I've been in this game long enough to be fairly accurate at predicting this stuff. Look back and you'll see I did the airflow calculations and predicted almost exactly what a turbo Tl would make at what boost before one existed. These things will be reliable engine wise.

 

We've covered this in the other thread. There were only a few failures with the supercharger kit and it wasn't because of the engine management. It was because those people pushed the kit beyond what it was designed for. The few that I have seen either had high boost pulleys and/or nitrous. Show me one member who installed the S/C kit as it sits and it destroyed his motor. I have installed 5 of these kits myself and all of the cars were fine. Yes you could add water/methanol for safety measure and the tuning could be better but it is reliable and it works.

I think a few of you are a little too excited about the turbo kits to see clearly. It's great there is a turbo kit that seems to be complete and working thus far but 2 turbo TL's are not an absolute proof for reliability. I can tell you that the maintenance and margin for error it's much more significant with aftermarket turbocharged vehicles. I have two vehicles that are turboed, one supercharged, and I'm working on a fourth setup that will be turboed. The supercharged car is far more reliable and it requires much much less maintenance. It required much less modification and it it no where near as problematic as the turboed cars.

 

If you want an AWD TL you may as well get a new one, otherwise your better off designing a car from the ground up.

 

I have to respectfully disagree.

The supercharged TLs blew from a lack of engine management period. I saw this years ago and that's why I made the predictions I did. I know a half ass kit when I see one.

A few members including Opel have come forward with blown engines at stock boost. The supercharger is a ticking time bomb. Some people get away with it longer than others, namely the people who do short bursts of acceleration mostly in the low gears before detonation sets in real bad.


Turbo vehicles are easier on parts than supercharged cars for two main reasons and many other reasons....

One, it takes power to drive the supercharger. It's around 40hp for the blower on the TL. To make the same power at the wheels as the turbo, the supercharged car has to make 40 extra hp to break even. This is 40hp more stress on everything at the same whp.

Two, the turbo's powerband is not as harsh, it comes on gentler than a roots blower. Now the Comptech kit had some funky stuff going on, I think they were leaving the bypass valve open until higher rpms but usually boost is instant with a roots. The only reason I can see for doing this was their lack of management which would've been amplified by low rpm boost so they invented "supercharger lag".

The turbo's outlet temp will always be drastically lower than the roots blower at the same boost. Couple that with the intercooler in the turbo kit and you see why the turbo is in another league.

It's well known in the racing world that turbo engines are easier on parts than nitrous, supercharged, or high rpm NA engines at the same hp.

Again, turbo cars are much more maintenance free, I don't know where this is coming from. For one there is no oil to change and practically nothing to wear out. Think of over the road diesels. Every one of them are turbocharged, no supercharged ones in existence anymore due to reliability issues at high mileage.

The supercharger has bearings that are more prone to wear and impellers and seals to wear that don't exist on a turbo.

If you come across a supercharged car that is more reliable, it isn't making any power or you're not comparing apples to apples.

Honestly, the only reason for ever going with a supercharger over a turbo is cost or emissions. From a reliability and power standpoint the two are not in the same league.

You point to the HBP as the cause of the problems, take a look at the turbos that are making 80hp more than the supercharger with the HBP with no fatalities while the HBP was near instant death for the supercharged car.

It was not the power that was killing the supercharged cars, it was the detonation. I would have been the first one to predict blown engines with the turbo kit just as I did with the supercharger kit but it isn't going to happen. This kit is complete.

In short, the extra power of the turbo my shorten engine life by a few miles but it's not going to cause catastrophic failure.

 

+11342342334234. IHC u definately know ur stuff(as expected) and i see u pointed out the poor engine management system too that comes with the ct kit, nicely done. not to put down the CT supercharger but it really is half assed, from needing custom radiators, to injectors etc. the ct supercharger kit is about 3k and figure about 2k more for additional parts needed and ur running close to the same price as the new turbo kit + tune cost. i mean cost per dollar the turbo kit guarantees more hp/dollar than the supercharger kit. yup i agree with IHC exactly. One solution that would decrease blow engines occurances and increase reliability is a PROPER engine managment system(like fic) included with the kit. just my

 

this "reliability" subject is getting so tiresome. we all have our own opinions, so why dont we all just wait and see until theres more than 2 of these kits running around on the streets. till then, NO ONE can deem this turbo kit as being 100% reliable, based soley on 2 test cars.


IHC's, theres alot of TL superchargers out there. how many cases have you heard of a blower unit going bad? IMO, they are bulletproof.... theres just not much that can go wrong with them. the oil they use is self-contained and can litterally go for 100k miles before changing. im going on 70k hard miles with my SC without a single issue and still running strong as ever. also, you keep bringing up the crappy tuning issue, but we all know now its a simple fix. add the missing pieces to the puzzle such as fic, meth, injectors and youve more than leveled the playing field.

ive seen some mid 90's grand prix's with over 200k still running good without any SC issues.

 

You're missing the point. The reliability issues come from the so called "kit" not the fact that it's supercharged vs turbocharged. Sure, it's a simple meth injection away from being reliable but that's not the way they were sold nor do most people know to do that. Most people don't know what detonation is.

Yours is reliable but to be fair, post what mods you have done to make it that way.....

My supercharger to turbo generic reliability comparison came because someone suggested the supercharger is more reliable than the turbo. I'm not suggesting a properly designed supercharger kit is not reliable, it is. But a turbo is still maintenance free. Boost is always the most reliable way to make power next to displacement whether it's from a supercharger or turbo.

For a while there it did seem like we had a newly blown engine a week. I remember all the posts, stated out with random misfires and cels. Ended with broken pistons or a rod through the block.

 

Doubtful fluid will be enough. Need to bump the pressure up in the transmission and to do so is in the valve body with the springs and bearings. Someone just needs to play with some kids to do that.

 

Super Charger is not the reason why cars are blowing up. It's all about the tuning, and this is on any car. A Supercharger or Turbo will not blow a engine up unless the car was not tuned properly.

They probably ran too lean and the tuning wasn't done properly, and boom.

 

I know it's been a topic of past discussion but it never hurts to go over it again especially for new comers ....
As stated by nva -av6 the actual unit isn't bad but it's not complete as far as engine management ect and if a product is released at a certain power level where it's causing detonation engine failure it's deemed non reliable which this category fits the supercharger ......
Now on the other hand like anything else there are a few precaution to make it reliable ( which right there explains why it is not reliable ) you shouldn't have to buy anything for it to make reliable @ manufactures suggested power level . Which starts to get costly especially for hp gain , not to mention if you're going to pust the envelope with higher boost level $$$$$ .....
Now for the turbocharger it's been delivered @ a power level where it has been tested for reliability and nothing else is required when the kit is bought except for your own personal tune or adjustment to a/f ,which is just a trip away from your local tuner ,the base kit is been released @ 370 whp, which have been driven on tested and we've even pushed the envelope to 479 on the base model , as for the Type S it will be delivered with 400-430 whp , which is quite an increase ....
Now in the future with the turbo kit as we all know there are upgrades for our motor , piston , rods and valve train, which I believe excelerate carries, a simple swap of pistons and rods and a quick retune now you can have a 500-600 whp Tl without a simple change of parts to the turbo kit just a boost controller for higher boost level , which I'm sure somebpeople are going to venture in after 370 whp there's always the urge for more ,now if u decide to pass the recommend boost level like we did for solely test purposes without an engine internal upgrade we can all agree issues will arise just like anything else ............
And I'd say were still safe at 410whp for the bsae model ,and for Type S 452whp is certainly not an issue....... This is coming from our experience and not on a dyno all our test are done in the conditions that we face daily ...

 

That's exactly what I said. It wasn't just too lean, it was also 300+ degree charge temps.

 

Also what I've stated in the past. We need a line pressure rise to match the torque rise of the turbo engine. However, with 100% more static holding power, we're hopeful it will be enough for now with just a fluid change.

 

I'm not as the transmission on these cars are the weak point. They always have been.

 

Once you understand the reasons why it's the weak point and the parts that have been solved already you will understand why this fluid has a very good chance of working.

 

ok, well that makes sense. if your talking strictly "out-of-the-box" reliability, then yes i do agree. we all know the comptech kit is imcomplete.

fic, meth kit, injectors, are the mods i added to make my kit reliable.

 

It's a shame the supercharger kit was so close to being complete. Your car is a great example of how reliable it can be with just a couple tweaks considering you road race it. I didn't want to come across as saying superchargers are unreliable. The turbo would've been just as bad with the same management.

 

yeah 04accordcpe, ur car really is the perfect example of supercharger reliability, however i think u forgot to include ur griffen radiator (~500 dollars), which u and i know is needed for clearance purposes. so just for newbie reading this thread:
fic+ tune~$1200
injectors~$500??
meth kit~$500
Griffen radiator~$500
this is all needed for the supercharger to be installed correctly/ run reliably. which u can see cost about 2k give or take. which shows, if we are comparing new supercharger kit to new turbo kit, both are around the same cost, and both can be run reliably for about 5/6k, just the turbo doesn't need additional parts. both kits are great just turbo kit is a "full kit" out of the box, while the ct supercharger is not.

 

I got 8 RSX-S (310cc) injectors for 160 shipped.

 

^^^im pretty sure the injectors that 04accordcpe uses is the 410cc oem injectors not the 310cc injectors. however, if am wrong than i apologize and assuming that the 310cc cost close to $200 i am gonna assume the 410cc cost $200 too. so to update my previous post.
fic+ tune~$1200
injectors~$200??
meth kit~$500
Griffen radiator~$500

so still it would be about 2k parts to make the supercharger as reliable as the turbo kit.

 

was just saying...

 

Here we go again... "Supercharging your TL" thread all over again.
2 prototypes on the road, zero production sold and fielded...yet it's already reliable and reccomended.

Sure, the CTSC lacks good tuning. Would the CTSC be a better option with better tuning? 04accordcoupe says it is... and has done it. The reason the CTSC has had tuning issues because there has been NO TUNING OPTIONS available until last year. I have seen 5 or so folks launch turbo threads over the years and they all petered out, because of the lack of tuning options.

The argument that the CTSC sucks because the out of the box tuning is moot. You gotta invest in tuning for the CTSC to make it right. You gotta do the same thing for the Turbo, it just happens it's bundled with the turbo kit today. I can't wait for these turbo kits roll out with base maps... and folks like me, without competent tuning, roll with the base tune until they blow thier engine too...

The fact that tuning options have now hit the market is the "new trend". With tuning comes other FI opportunities... including cleaning up the CTSC tune.

I've counted 4-5 CTSC reported engines blown over the years, All HIGHLY modded, using the CTSC ACM base tunes. I'd expect that to happen, as the base closed loop ACM map didn't account for these other mods, and at the time, there was no other tuning option. Again, this is now addressable. 04accordce is running 350+ HP quite reliably with a proper tune. I've watched this like a hawk... and I would not have installed had I not thought it was safe. I kept my cats for backpressure, I'm installing a boost cooler, etc...

Sure is the CTSC NOT a complete kit? $500 for a boost cooler and AEM FIC is all it's missing. PCD's are reccomended as well. That's $800. The CTSC, with everything it needs to run reliably and safely is just a shade over 1/2 price odf the turbo. 1/2 the power for 1/2 the price... sounds fair to me.

Again, I don't think you guys are giving the CTSC the fair shake it deserves.
I'm not knocking the Turbo, again, I'm enamored with it as well... It's just simply unproven... and I firmly believe the unproven nature is gonna show long term issues, that are going to drive costs higher... HP comes with a cost, and reliability at 450 HP is hardly reliable based on what's bolted on.

 

well those prices are a little inflated. for the radiator, you dont neccessary need a Griffen radiator. you can get an OEM alum replacement and have the spout relocated, so...

radiator + spout relocate - 200
fic - 350
meth kit - 325
injectors - 150
tune - 180 (thats what i pay at churches)

a good used SC can be had in the BM for around 3k. obviously, the turbo just came out and only avail new.

so for roughly 4200 (minus labor of course) can get you nice SC setup that will give you approx 350hp/300tq @ 3-4psi.... the power from the SC is more than PLENTY enough for our cars... IMHO, its just plain silly to push anymore than that, cause lets be honest here.. its not exactly a great platform to build on., you'll NEVER be able to put all that power to the ground reliably,. and the strength of the supporting cast will always be in question. these are the reasons why my quest for power has ended.

 

Wut...?
FIC ($3-400) + tune ($ I was given an estimate from at $300) - $6-700
Injectors, as a comfort - $150
Meth Kit - $200
Radiator? Nice to have... Not needed
PCD's are reccomended $300

I see $1200-1300 more for a proper setup. On top of $4000... $5200

Isn't the turbo pushing $8K now...?

 

Exactly... 450/400 is ludicrous in a FWD, all oyu get from that is broken parts and new tires.

... and I have less than $3200 in mine, with $500 in a FIC and tune to go (with gauges and pulley). No radiator, but that's a comfort thing and I don't drive hard enough to need it.

 

kennedy i respectfully i understand ur position i mean how can we be sure the turbo is going to be reliable? but just mechanically speaking the supercharger, being that it runs all the time, isn't mechanically made to be DD setup unless the items i included in my previous post are installed. i mean i know many individuals have/had the supercharger but in terms of reliablilty is concerned turbo is the best way without a doubt. i like both kits, but even today look at where the trend has been concerning supercharger and turbochargers. most companies understand the "maintainance free" idea of a turbo setup which is why there are alot more factory turboed cars, for example GTI, WRX, EVO and many more. Even the sucky cobalt ss, is now going the turbo route. i don't mean to start a war, just given the choice between a factory supercharged car and a factory turbocharged car i would choose the turbocharged in a heartbeat, just cause they are better on gas, "maintainance free", and most of the time from my experience push more hp/ per psi than a supercharger.