swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I hate you bro....just when the list of mods are coming to an end, someone somewhere adds something LOL....

Inaccurate get your butt in here....we need to know your impressions on WMI

Inaccurate

^ It has me thinking. That much is for sure.

For normal people that do not have a weight phobia like me, I HIGHLY recommend jumping on this mod.

I have for years thought that WMI on the N/A TL would kick ass. But for me, this morphed into the NMI, which got cancelled due to my weight phobia.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

yeah it added about ~40lbs. 2.5 gallon tank weights ~30lbs with water in it. The pump is at least 7 and the wiring, hose and the control box is 2-3lbs.

Inaccurate

Preaching to the choir..... been there, done that with my NMI project....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

It works N/A since my accord is N/A at the moment.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

How did I miss this? Thanks for reply. I was actually hoping you would this as it would have been a lot more work and money to do multiport. As it is now, I just needed a few things to integrate it with the MS3.

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

I'm wondering if this system will be able to completely fix the J series heatsoaking issues. Do you think WMI will lower the IATs comparably to using the 3G TL-S or 4G TL SHAWD magnesium manifold along with the Ultimate Cooling Mod?

I'm excited to see your results once the summer heat gets here. Will you be using a USB OBD2 reader?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ bro you dont need WMI

Ultimate cooling mods and Coolant Bypass makes my 05 Manifold and TB soooo cool to touch....on a 80degree weather day i can stick my tongue on the TB after an hour of city driving !!!

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

the past few days its been 90 in CA. The under hood temp is so hot it vaporize the water/meth after the fast acting valve. WTF? lol

I also swap back to 87 and the car drives the same like it was when I used 91. The 2.5 gallon tank last about 2-3 fill up.

I am monitor it through the obdII using the ELM327 obd2 reader with some software on my laptop. I don't remember what it is called off the top of my head. not the best way to monitor it but its still pretty good.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

THISAZ, do you have the UCM? and what are you reading using the ELM327?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Are you determining this by looking at the IAT's? Seems like it would take a lot of heat to vaporize water. I am also wondering even if it's turned into a vapor in the delivery line, where will the vapor go except into the intake? How far back is the valve in relation to the nozzle?

Are you running a mix or straight meth?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ I am determining this when I open the hood of the car and checking the lines. you can see steam/ condensation in the line. lol

I am running mix.

The valve is about 1 foot away from the nozzle. I am going to flush the line and see if it happens again.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ condensation in the line or on the line ???

if its in the line, you are prolly vaporizing the meth and what you have left is the water LOL....
if its on the line, then thats good news....means that the water meth line is cold so the heat/vapors of the engine is condensation on the line.....

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

That doesn't mean it's vaporizing, just condensation from the temperature differential between the outside of the lines and the ambient temps under the hood.

I don't recall but where is the nozzle in relation to the IAT sensor?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I bought a float switch to put into my tank. While the bumper is off I took some pics of my setup:

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

nice!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

sweet pix KN....

since you used the windshield water reservoir, i bet you must have changed the lid on it....just making sure you did.....

I hate cars

Very nice, clean work KN.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Nah, don't know what lid would fit anyway. I also do 99% of the work on it myself and if I do take it somewhere, I'll just tape it so they can't fill it.

Even if they do, windshield washer fluid is basically a watered down mix, so it won't hurt anything.

Inaccurate

KN,

Great design and craftsmanship on tapping the oem reservoir and mounting the pump and lines

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

looks awesome, kurt.

i'm going to have to start looking into this setup after i get everything tuned and functional on my end.

couple of n00b questions.

1. effective on N/A and why?
2. total cost for setup?
3. do i need to get re-tuned afterwards?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

KN the reason i said is, i thought the WM would evaporate when left open or if the tank is not air tight.....

i would just use a balloon (cough NOT condom cough) and make sure to make it air tight.....that is just me thow.....

you are a smart mofo aint u Aaron.....

read the thread

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^or, perhaps, just maybe...you could answer the 3 questions and save me from reading through 4 pages of stuff.

just a thought

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The main advantage in any application is octane boost. The secondary benefit is cooling.

With an MS3 setup, you would need the fast acting valve, a pump, tank, lines and fittings and you'll also need to build buffer circuits for the pump and valve.

FAV - $140
Pump - $200 (max)
Fittings and such depends on plastic vs SS braided.
Nozzle - $20(?)
Electronics - $10
Tank - $50 (?)
Level switch - $30

I'm sure I am forgetting something.

You can log the results and then you need to decide if you want to retune to push the timings where you need the WMI. Or just run being a bit rich but enjoy the results of lower charge temps and higher octane.

Live Tune can tweak the A/F but I "Think" the timing is a separate beast. Haven't gotten that far in my reading.

This is where you can take advantage of table switching

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

From what Ive gathered:

1) Yes, but not as much as a boosted engine. It reduces IATs and raises octane levels.
2) Havent looked into it, yet.
3) For the most gains, yes, Id retune.

EDIT - Or just read the above post

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Unless I come up with a recovery or closed loop system, I don't think it can be completely sealed because it's gravity fed.

The difference in boiling point vs water is 149 vs 212. So will evaporate about as much as twice as fast as water (VERY Rough estimate). It being outside the engine bay I would think be fairly low temps except in the dead heat of summer. So I don't think I need to worry about it.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Aaron....i would only do this mod if I was in Texas or running boost or running higher CR or had a ton of cash.....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I need to run a compression check. I accidently Messed up the car yesterday. I was purging the lines and I forgot to remove the jumper from test mode. It kept spraying at 100% and the engine sucked a little too much in. Best way to describe it would be when your doing seafoam and you pour it a little too much, and the engine gets mad and wants to die. I turned off the car right away and pulled all the plug and cranked. Nothing shot out. Then Open the IM. There was no pool of water in the plenum, but there was some in the are where the bolts were, this probably saved my motor since all 6 of them were almost fulled with water. *this also answer anyone question of whether or not all the cylinder gets an equal share. Yes they do cuz all of the areas were equally filled.*Then I put the car back together. Seem okay, but I am going to be safe and drive the car like a granny before I have the compression checked to see if I mess things up.... *cross finger, I hope now* I also hope that since its not 100% water and that the fluid was 50% methanol and that the car was idling should have minimum damage. I hope.


Moral of the story. Check once, twice, and three time. When your out for more power than there is a higher chance of damage.

I hate cars

It's no big deal, I've done it plenty times. If the engine didn't die, it's fine. It's very easy to kill the engine at idle, the amount required to kill it is about 10x less than the amount required to hydrolock it and yours didn't die. It's a very small volume even at 100%. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it went the other direction and came out of the air filter judging from the location of the nozzle. Mine was such a large shot that if I sprayed it at idle it would almost instantly kill the engine and that's with pure meth and I did it all the time.

So again, absolutely nothing to worry about. I wouldn't have shut the engine down, leaving it running and allowing any puddles (there probably weren't any of significant size) evaporate before giving it throttle would be best. At least you got a visual to show that the meth is making it to all cylinders.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Thank you the the reassurance. I was totally freaken out yesterday. lol I was like shit I am not ready for a j36 build just yet.

But I am doing a compression test anyways just to make sure, and my car has about 90k on it now.

One thing that I notice when I pulled the spark and IM. They were very clean. No PCV or ERG crap in the IM. All I could see was bare metal. But on the P2R tb spacer there is a little bit of corrosion where the metal wasn't powder coated. It was a whitish residue.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

PHEW !!!

close call eh.....am glad you posted to caution all of us buddy....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

yeah I was scared as hell yesterday. lol it also didn't help that I swap back to .6mm to see if I could get it work. Honestly for my j30a5 application N/A l believe .5mm is the way to go for now. So maybe people with a 3.2L or 3.5L can try .6mm and up.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Well I decided that I wanted my windshield washer function back so I removed my pump and re-plumbed the windshield washer pump.

Took Inaccurate's advice and went to US Plastics for the bottles, Howerton for the remote fill and DigiKey for the level sensors.

Now I just need to see if I can fit the 2.5 gallon and if not, going with the 6qt tank.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

SICK update KN !!!

rooster415

pmed you aznboi!

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I suggest you use the longer bottle because the water slosh around a lot with the rectangular one. Its going to be a bitch when you need it to spray meth and it doesn't spray since the water slosh to the other side.

Inaccurate

ABSOLUTELY


Highly recommend a tall slender shape like pictured below to control slosh and preventing exposing the outlet.



















It is best to lap the mouth of the US Plastics tank. The sealing surface is not completely true (level). The untrue surface could allow a minuscule amount of methanol vapors and liquid to escape. The lapping will ensure a good sealing surface for the cap. To lap the tank, tape a piece of fine sandpaper (400 or 600 grit) onto a flat surface (glass or marble) and slide the mouth across the sandpaper.


The best bulkhead AN fitting by far is the MagnaFuel AN Bulkhead Fitting PN# MP-3014 (click here). It is double the price of the typical brands. But, I took a chance and ordered one to check it out. It is designed great because it uses a sophisticated o-ring design that in molded onto the metal washer. If I need to order another #8 bulkhead, it will be this MagnaFuel brand. The one that I did order is the bulkhead that you see in the bottom of my fuel cell (purple color).








In the pic above - This shows where the vent is located along the exterior of the car. The vent is located in the recessed area for the shock absorber. I realize that there is a small chance for dirt/grit to find it's way into the fuel cell. However, I am taking a calculated chance that this won't be an issue. There will be a fuel filter on the high pressure side of the pump to catch any debris. If I am wrong about the fuel cell staying clean, I will be buying a replacement pump and installing a wire mesh on the vent bulkhead.


A stripe down the center of the fuel cell was left unpainted to allow the fluid level to be seen from outside of the tank.



To mount fittings, I advise anyone to not use the raised bosses on the US Plastics tanks. The bosses are a nice idea, but poorly executed. On every boss, there is molding flash along the center. The molding flash creates a leak-prone surface for fittings. Furthermore, the backside (inside surface of tank) of all bosses has an extremely irregular surface. Again, creating a leak-prone surface for any AN bulkhead fitting. It is much easier to get a great sealing surface along most flat areas on the tank.





PARTS LIST & PRICES

Aeroquip AN Flare Adapter PN# FBM3155 (click here) = $23 x 2 = $46
Aeroquip AN Flare Adapter PN# FBM3156 (click here) = $19 x 2 = $38
Earls Performance AN Plug PN# 580606ERL (click here) = $6
Earls Performance AN to NPT Adapter Fitting PN# AT981608ERL (click here) = $5
Earls Performance AN to NPT Adapter Fitting PN# AT981666ERL (click here) = $8
Fragola Performance Systems P.T.F.E Hose Assembly PN# 370096 (click here) = $56
Fragola Performance Systems P.T.F.E Hose Assembly PN# 380012 (click here) = $26
Fragola Performance Systems P.T.F.E Hose Assembly PN# 382030 (click here) = $42
MagnaFuel AN Bulkhead Fitting PN# MP-3014 (click here) = $25
Russell Performance Fuel Cell Bulkhead Fitting PN# 670860 (click here) = $13 x 2 = $26

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

great Idea for the vent!

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

So now I am thinking about a sumped tank. Devils own and coolingmist both sell one.

The other thing I was thinking about was installing a small tank being fed by a larger tank to prevent sloshing....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I have this tank since I hate refilling. its 2.25 gallon and last me 2-3 full tank of gas.


it still slosh even though it has a sump. Its only slump at the very end of the corner. I have that small square edge pointing towards the rear of the car so it doesn't suck in air when I accelerate. I had it mounted horizontally and that really messed with the fluid level sensor.