04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

im trying to give a little "buyer beware" hint, but before i jump the gun and say anything negative about the company that makes these "procats" (e-shift performance). i want to find out what kind of company they really are and see how they back their product, before you give up your hard earned $1000+ for them (which is a good chunk of change for just 3 cats) just incase you run into the same problem in the future. i think people would be interested to know if they'd be screwed or not.

ive had mine for a little over 1 1/2 years, driven about 17k miles and they have already completey unraveled and deteriorated on me. my third cat was so clogged with thin metal shrapnel from the front 2 cats , i had to take it out and install a straight through test pipe until i have them replaced, so the broken pieces will exit throught the tail pipes.. mike the owner of e-shift said he will take care of me with some new ones by the end of next week, so we'll see. he sounds like a stand up guy, so i have high hopes this will get resolved

meanwhile, my check engine light is on because of it, since theres not much material left in them and i have to get it smogged for the first time this coming february.

oh and i NEVER ran a methonal injection with my SC, just incase some of you are wondering ....

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

I wonder if any of the N/A guys are having any issues? Although I don't see why they wouldn't with stand the additional pressure of boost, either.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

oh ya, i forgot to mention 5000 miles (of the 17k) were N/A miles... the last 12k with the SC.

im with you, i dont see why they wouldnt with stand additional boost either.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

mmmh nice to know I just got mine, I tried pm'ing you, nice of you to make a thread...

any pics of what came out? just so I got a heads up..

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

i had them on my N/A blackura for about 10k miles, when i sold them, the member who got them said that 3rd cat had also deteriorated and the innerards were "loose"

i didnt have a problem with them on my car, except for the fact that towards the end, my dynos were running a A/F ratio of 12.0 on a N/A car... some people seem to think it was related to the 3rd cat giving a problem.... not sure though

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

werd... well guess I won't know till a few k miles

06WDP-TL

if this is a rare incident, then i wouldn't be too alarmed. Esp since Mike is taking care of it.

Every product, even good brands, have their bad batches every blue moon.

Godd luck!

ACCURATEin

The OEM cats deteriorated on mine about 1.5 years ago before i ordered the eshift cats. I havent felt any signs of deterioration with the eshift cats, or atleast not at the moment.

On a side note, i was lookin at the most recent issue of Turbo magazine and there is a product page on page 16 and the E-Shift Procats are featured!! I thought it was pretty cool to see an accord/TL part advertised in Turbo Mag.

csmeance

With the Comptech ACM, doesn't the car run a bit rich? If so, the cats being dumped with alot of left over fuel may cause the deterioration.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

usually Nitrous or M/I will deteriorate the cats REALLY quickly.. the S/C shouldnt be causing a problem...

the biggest problem is changing the cats, Mike @ eshift is a cool guy. one of my CATS threw a CEL once, and he replaced it.... only problem is, guys running the S/C, have to remove the blower to access the front cat

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

I have had the same problem for the last two months. I'm glad it happened after I got my emissions done.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

how many miles do you have on your cats? are you running a M/I ?

kjelly

I'll check my records and see how long I've had mine on. It's been at least 1.5 years and 10k+ miles, though... No problems noted.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

ahhh, my bad. i didnt realize my PM's were full. i cleared them out so you can send me one. was it regarding the procats? or something else?



i NEVER ran it with the ACM, only tuned with the emanage ultimate. my a/f was always betweed 11:5 to 12:0

thats nice to hear.. i hope he takes care of me the same way your close by though, so its easy to go to someones shop everyday and bug them if needed . im 3000miles away on the west coast, so phone calls and emails are my only form of communication

bklynpanman

tried to warn everybody not to waste 1000k.. on extremely minimal gains.. mine lasted under a year.. though at one point i ran meth.. still... Good luck...

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

bklynpanman, great to see you back!

i never knew you had troubles with the cats...i only had mine for about 8 months w/ 10k on them.. after 3 weeks, one cat was bad, and he replaced it.... i never had a problem after that , or so i thought.. the member who purchased mine said the innerards were all lose and broken....and they were probably broken on my car as well, just didnt notice....

anyways, to members with 04-06 TL's, you should consider the 07+ TL-S CATS are they are higher flowing (04 TL 900cell/inch 07TL-S 600cell/inch & eshift 200cell/inch)

i was very pleased with the performance gain though.. i saw just under 20whp from these (about 17-18whp)

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

Yeah you'd figure members would jump on the type s cats, I've had them on the black market for almost a month...


Hey blackura wat was the turn around when you got your replaced?... Did you drive out there or they shipped... I am really close to them (30mins) so would like to know if I run into any problems on my S


Ps.. Blusap.. I was going to pm you. Regarding the cats after I saw you ran into problems..

What do the things that come out look like?

Imma see if I can wot finally with them installed... Nyc weather is nasty

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

well, it actually was a PITA, but whatever. i drove to mike @ eshift, and had him take the cat off the car.. then i had to wait like a week, to return, and have him put the cat back on the car...

ussi

iTrader: (1)

damn sorry to hear. i'm glad eshift is taking care of you..hopefully...

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

So you put the stock cat? Or what?

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

I have to add my two cents in here about the metal cats used by e shift and also explain why i have / will not purchase these cats. First off the metal cat is an excellent cat and e shift products are great. The problem lies in the fact that metal cat is a LEV approved cat and not a ULEV approved cat. The only companies that make a ULEV approved cat are the OEM manufacturers. You say so what does that mean????? Well a ULEV certified vehicles ecu is programmed to run extremely rich upon cold start to add additional fuel to the catalytic convertors to light them off faster and reduce cold start emissions. The metal cat does not have enough presious metal content to survive the extreme temperatures created by the addition fuel and this causes the ceramic honeycomb to deteriorate from the heat. Now us supercharged vehicles really get the shaft in convertor life as our cars run extremely rich when in boost thanks to the acm. I can go on and on about the difference about ulev and lev but my hands would get tired of typing. I have been aware of the problem with these cats and all other cats on ulev vehicles (i am a partner at a national exhuast chain and have talked to three major convertor manufacturers about the use of lev approved cats on ulev approved vehicles and as of right now only the oem cats will with stand the enviorment in a ulev certified vehicle) and that is why i havent and wont purchase these cats for the gains that they provide. They will last somewhat longer on N/A vehicles but will eventually fail. I have two sets of pro cats that both upstream convertors failed and i will be replacing just the convertors with magnaflow spun convertors at the cost of $180 to me so it will be worth the $$$ to do this mod even if they only last me a year. I know in time the convertors will fail but its all good. I will also be changing the outlet side of the procats original design to accomidate a larger flange for a custom j pipe. The pro cats outlet is only 1 7/8 in and i feel there is a little more potential for power in a 2 or 2 1/8 outlet to a custom j pipe. All of which is free for me just cost me my time. In a summary the pro cats make POWER, are a great addition to our vehicles but in there nature just like ANY other cat that is not ULEV certified will eventually fail on a ULEV vehicle.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

I was one of the original 20 or so that ordered them. I probably have 25 K on them. No M/I. If I can't get Mike to make me a new one, I'm dumping the cats for good.

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

Wow, a bklynpanman sighting.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

I wish eshift would get on this forum cuz where does that leave me...?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

i wouldnt sweat it now, since you are still N/A...

plus the ECU on the TL-S is tuned differently to accomadate 600cell/inch cats.. so the deterioration process will probably take a little longer on the TL-S...

Also, from what Ryan wrote (excellent write up btw) the rear cat seems to be where the trouble is, because it looks like all the shrapnel/shards from the primary cats are being stuck in there, causing it to fail. which is probably why my 3rd cat failed. atleast the third cat is easy to change, plus, if you plan on really ripping your car apart and making a fast beast out of it, you will proably change your J-pipe and delete the third cat anyways...

stillhere, i wanna see a dyno chart !!

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

lmfao... the funny thing is I keep seeing this accord v6 cat... like $40 shipped... by megan and it is stainless steel... I may have to just swap out the 3rd cat for it rather than have anything getting stuck inside the 3rd cats honeycombs in case shit

the accord v6 cat looks like a resonator inside straight through... so it really isn't a cat per say... scratching my head over this now...

dyno will come when you tell me where to go lmfao

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

If heat is a problem, the tuning is wrong. It should not be running too hot. If it is, the engine is running lean.

If richness is the problem, tuning is wrong again. If it is rich, it needs to be leaned out a little. The fact is, the mixture changes with supercharged apps because of the higher volume of air flow. But the exhaust mixture itself should not be all that different from stock if the car is running and tuned properly.

Just because the car is supercharged does not mean it can't burn clean. How else can the SC kit be carb legal?

If the metal cores themselves disintegrated it is because the metal cores failed on a structural level. It could be a brazing issue, or poor quality...not sure unless we inspect it.


But if this is the case:

"mike the owner of e-shift said he will take care of me with some new ones by the end of next week, so we'll see. he sounds like a stand up guy, so i have high hopes this will get resolved"

Shouldn't you let him fulfill his end of the bargain before making this post? I am sure he'd appreciate that.

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

Marcus, it is not heat that is the problem im sure you know how convertors are designed and engineered to work so you should understand that a functioning convertor will have a HIGHER exhaust emperature then its inlet temerature. Tuning???? The factory "tune" for cold start will never be addressed by any tuning company. Properly tuned??? Acuras program for ULEV certification is designed properly, cause it destroys aftermarket cats its not properly tuned?? i dont think so. How can the s/c kits be carb approved then?? Easy. To get a carb approval the design company has to prove that its product doesnt comprimse the emissions of the vehicle EXCEPT under wot conditions and that part throttle and idle emissions are unaffected (in a short very short description of carb approval) so that is how it is legal and that the kit doesnt burn clean ( im sure you know most people see under 11-1 air fuel ratios under boost) and still be exempt. The metal cores arent actually deteriorating but actually they are shrinking the honeycomb core from rapid heat expansion and contraction. If you understood how ULEV vehicle are designed to reduce pollution then you would also understand how a convertor that is not designed for that application wont survive. The difference between an OEM cat for a toyota that is LEV equipt and ULEV equipt is the LEV cat cost $300 and the ULEV cat $900. The reason being.... the ULEV cat is produced with more than 5 times the amount of presious metals in the metallic substrate. The metals are there to reduce the pollutants and to help the convertor survive the increased temperatures seen inside the cat not cause the engine is running "too lean" but cause it is tuned properly for emissions reasons. The metal cats are a great high flowing cat that will out perform most cats that are avalible, but the are not designed to meet the requirements for ULEV certification or SULEV or TLEV but i wont keep going on about other emissions certifications since our cars are all ULEV and that is what is on topic here that and most people on here dont even know what the hell i am talking about. Like i stated earlier there are no cats avalible aftermarket that will last in a ULEV or higher emissions certification.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

stillhere, i gotta place by me. we can get a better deal if we both go, im sure....

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Ryan.. excellent write ups! im loving this exhaust/cat information im learning...

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

LOL i havent even begun to touch on the subject of emissions exhaust or tuning information....

I hate cars

Ryan- very interesting. I understand how cats work and never thought to run it rich to light them off faster but it makes sense. I had a friend's van with a stuck injector and the shell of the cat was red hot while the van was running. This was one of the old "pebble" filled cats.

RYAN97812

iTrader: (2)

LOL the old pellet convertors 9 times out of ten wont even pass an asm 5015 test let alone a asm 20/140. Those things were junk when they came out with them in the 80's.
I've been having quite a few conversations with convertor manufacturers about LEV and higher certifications.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

to be completely honest with you marcus, that comment you quoted from me above, i was trying to be as nice as i can and didnt want to bring anything up from the past. lets just say i FINALLY talked to him a little over a week ago when he actually answered the phone. before that, ive left several messages with him at his shop over a 2-3 week span and he never returned a single call. i emailed them also to no avail...

my last incident with him was about 7 months ago. he said he finished making me a Jpipe and was going to send it out, but i never heard from him again and it was a b!itch to get a hold of him after that, leaving message after message and finally gave up. he quoted me a great price on it too in his way of thanking me for helping him out when he contacted me over a year ago, regarding detailed questions about installing a TL SC kit on a 7th gen accord, since i was the first one to do it. asking me if there was any additional modding needed, if air filter fit ok, questions about the ACM, custom radiator, brackets, etc,... cause he had a customer that was interested in it and ended up doing the install.

so ive gotten a taste of how he does business already and so far hes flaked and disregarded me in the past, BUT its a bit of a different situation this time. im now going to find out now, how he stands behinds his own product, so im giving him the benefit of the doubt this go around, by calling him a "stand up guy". hes a very pleasant guy to talk to and told me everything i wanted to hear, but good is that if he doesnt end up going through with them?? SO...we'll see this time and hope he's really going to take care of me

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

hey blusap.. dont take the not answering/returning call thing personally. he is surely one of the HARDEST people to get in touch with...

when i had a CAT failure, it was sooo hard to get in touch with him, so i just drove over to N.NJ and went to his shop... but emailing/calling was almost pointless

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

i also emailed pics to him of the metal pieces that poured out of the third cat, that he said was received. so theres no dispute about it.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Hey there Ryan, thanks for the reply. It would help me out a lot if you could put a few line breaks in your post though. I am finding it difficult to read.

I know cats are designed to hold heat and operate at a high temp. But if the temp is too high, you get a damaged cat. Correct?

What does factory cold start tune have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that tuning could not be the issue because cold-start tuning meant to make the cat light-off faster is causing the failure? If not, I am not sure I understand the point you are making.

I am starting to think you feel I am suggesting the stock tune ruined the cat. I highly doubt that is would...or should. Largely any well made aftermarket car should stand up to the 'rigors' of a stock engine driven reasonably. I was under the impression the person complaining here had a supercharged car...that is a different story.

Good tidbit on the carb approval. But I still question the air/fuel ratio of the car OFF boost and OUT of WOT...these areas of aftermarket tune are widely ignored or screwed up and this is the area where most of the driving occurs and where the cat will see most of its mileage. Wouldn't you agree then that a carb approved kit should have some reasonable cleanliness to it such as not to cause failure in the cat? (I agree that in most cases carb exemption is more about money than the environment, though. Don't get me wrong. I am trying to give Comptech the benifit of the doubt.)

Sidebar...try not to assume things about people such as "If you knew anything about ULEV vehicles." I am sure I know enough to get though this conversation. All these acronyms are not voodoo or anything. You are not giving us any privileged information.

Metal cats are high flowing yes, but they will not perform as well as ceramic substrate from an emissions point of view. Simply put the lower cell count offers less surface area for the precious metal coating to contact the exhaust gas. Yes, a metal cat is a long way from being able to pass a ULEV cert. But ceramic cores in the 400-600 cell count range are more than capable. Most of the OEMs are going with 600 and I think even 800 count now with cell walls that are extremely thin. THAT is the difference between a $300 cat and a $900 one. And all those are ceramic too. It is manufacturing cost and the fact that genuine cats are proprietary parts. Once the government starts allowing OBD2 replacements we are going to see a big change in the "cat-game."

Now, are you actually trying to tell me that a lean condition will not raise combustion temps, and that exhaust gas will not reach a point where cat temperature gets too high and the substrate will fail? And that a supercharged car with more than a few other mods on it will not run the risk of experiencing a lean condition?

Marcus

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Ah yes, Ok, gotcha

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

exactly my point. i dont have the benefit of driving to his shop, since im on the west coast, 3000miles away.

thats something i cant understand, i run a business myself and i return ALL my messages/emails before the end of each day and take special care from people ive already done business regarding anything, big or small. its called proper business edicate.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

i wish more people ran a business like you marcus. you are a great guy to deal with and very easy to get a hold of. when i had questions about the suspension i bought and installed by you, you had no problems of taking a look at it, even a year later, to make a few minor adjustments on my EDFC motors and not charging me a penny for it. thats the way everyone should do business.

im definetly going to be calling you soon, regarding those brake kits we talked about. my powerslots are starting to get heat cracks