Preliminary Supercharger reflash results - looking for a tester
10-03-2007, 10:48 AM
#42
tehLEGOman
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hondata hondata Hondata hondata Hondata Hondata hondata
10-03-2007, 10:49 AM
#43
tehLEGOman
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Come on man i even put a HONDA badge on the front of my TL in preparation for this haha.!!
10-03-2007, 03:40 PM
#46
Originally Posted by blusap
ya i figured it what your car. what are the numbers now with HBP?
why are both hp and tq #'s marked where they're at?
if you look at peak tq its ,
287 hondata
265 ACM
(22 ft lbs difference)
and hp #'s at the stock 6700rpm redline is,
342 hondata
322 ACM
(20 hp difference)
why are both hp and tq #'s marked where they're at?
if you look at peak tq its ,
287 hondata
265 ACM
(22 ft lbs difference)
and hp #'s at the stock 6700rpm redline is,
342 hondata
322 ACM
(20 hp difference)
10-03-2007, 07:50 PM
#48
Suzuka Master
Ok we have been very good and obeyed the "do not call hondata" request.
This is the first time to my knowledge that there is a direct line of communication with Hondata. Is it to much to ask for a simple response to all of the questions regarding the NA reflash? Is it in development? what is the time frame? Please give us a response, we have been good and havent called!
This is the first time to my knowledge that there is a direct line of communication with Hondata. Is it to much to ask for a simple response to all of the questions regarding the NA reflash? Is it in development? what is the time frame? Please give us a response, we have been good and havent called!
10-03-2007, 07:57 PM
#49
tehLEGOman
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Originally Posted by pohljm
Ok we have been very good and obeyed the "do not call hondata" request.
This is the first time to my knowledge that there is a direct line of communication with Hondata. Is it to much to ask for a simple response to all of the questions regarding the NA reflash? Is it in development? what is the time frame? Please give us a response, we have been good and havent called!
This is the first time to my knowledge that there is a direct line of communication with Hondata. Is it to much to ask for a simple response to all of the questions regarding the NA reflash? Is it in development? what is the time frame? Please give us a response, we have been good and havent called!
10-03-2007, 10:04 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
^that is VERY stupid by them imo, basically its like saying, "Hey waiter can I order some dinner? Sure, but first you need to buy this restaurant ..." 
HONDADATA: Sad truth is that there are like >50 S/C 3rd Gen TL's in the world probably VS. half a million NA TL's in the US alone who would probably be interested in a reflash. Ok, maybe I overestimate, but it's still Waaay more $$ with NA than S/C, reflash, HBP combo. Don't you run a business in order to make money???
SO then, WHats the problem??? This is So whack!!! Don't be
(es).....
HONDADATA: Sad truth is that there are like >50 S/C 3rd Gen TL's in the world probably VS. half a million NA TL's in the US alone who would probably be interested in a reflash. Ok, maybe I overestimate, but it's still Waaay more $$ with NA than S/C, reflash, HBP combo. Don't you run a business in order to make money???
SO then, WHats the problem??? This is So whack!!! Don't be
(es).....
10-03-2007, 10:12 PM
#52
tuning / modding newbie.
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^ like that's the way to get it done...
i understand your pain. I need to get a supercharger now. i'm kinda glad they went this route. makes me revisit my financial plans and put supercharger up front than later.
i understand your pain. I need to get a supercharger now. i'm kinda glad they went this route. makes me revisit my financial plans and put supercharger up front than later.
10-03-2007, 10:14 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by HQTL6SPD
^that is VERY stupid by them imo, basically its like saying, "Hey waiter can I order some dinner? Sure, but first you need to buy this restaurant ..."
HONDADATA: Sad truth is that there are like >50 S/C 3rd Gen TL's in the world probably VS. half a million NA TL's in the US alone who would probably be interested in a reflash. Ok, maybe I overestimate, but it's still Waaay more $$ with NA than S/C, reflash, HBP combo. Don't you run a business in order to make money???
SO then, WHats the problem??? This is So whack!!! Don't be (es).....
HONDADATA: Sad truth is that there are like >50 S/C 3rd Gen TL's in the world probably VS. half a million NA TL's in the US alone who would probably be interested in a reflash. Ok, maybe I overestimate, but it's still Waaay more $$ with NA than S/C, reflash, HBP combo. Don't you run a business in order to make money???
SO then, WHats the problem??? This is So whack!!! Don't be
(es).....i understand your pain. I need to get a supercharger now. i'm kinda glad they went this route. makes me revisit my financial plans and put supercharger up front than later. i rather feel the change from a base TL w CAI to a boosted TL with reflash and exhaust.
i think i'm drooling...
10-03-2007, 11:01 PM
#54
Originally Posted by pohljm
Ok we have been very good and obeyed the "do not call hondata" request.
This is the first time to my knowledge that there is a direct line of communication with Hondata. Is it to much to ask for a simple response to all of the questions regarding the NA reflash? Is it in development? what is the time frame? Please give us a response, we have been good and havent called!
This is the first time to my knowledge that there is a direct line of communication with Hondata. Is it to much to ask for a simple response to all of the questions regarding the NA reflash? Is it in development? what is the time frame? Please give us a response, we have been good and havent called!
Our development is driven in large by two things.
- 1) Bang for the buck
- 2) Requests by our partners (ie Comptech)
I have been working with the supercharger system for over 18 months and have been developing the software to a point where it makes a big difference to someone who has a supercharger with the ACM. The TL runs like it was supercharged from the factory.
The reasons I am asking for testers, is that in the small samples of TLs I have had, there have been performance variations in otherwise identical setups. This goes for the NA TLs I have tested as well. In addition the TL performs significantly differently on the dyno than it does on the road. This alone has added months to the development. We appreciate those who have been and are still working with us.
The release of this product has involved a tremendous amount of work. There are not one, but 6 reflashes, one for each year 2004, 2005 & 2006, MT and Auto. It is unlikely we will recover even 1/4 of our costs with the supercharger reflash, but we invested this time as we believe there is a lot of future potential.
Once the framework is in place for reflashing the TL ECUs for the supercharger it becomes easier to develop other products for the TL. For example our technology could be applied to a turbo system.
Later this year / early next we will look more closely at the NA TL. What we have found so far is:
- Dropping the VTEC point is detrimental unless you have low restriction catalytic converters and a low restriction exhaust.
- RL cams can be fitted and tuned for, but the VTEC point needs to be raised
- The NA reflash in the two TLs we have worked with, perform better on the road than on the dyno.
There are many possibilities, but we cannot do every combination.
To answer other questions:
If a customer with one our reflashes upgrades of another of our reflashes there is a lower charge. For example 600 for the first reflash and 300 for the next. In this case the reflash upgrade only applies to the ECU. Ie if the car is sold with a reflash, the new owner may upgrade. We keep a record of the serial numbers.
10-04-2007, 12:29 AM
#55
Suzuka Master
Thank you for the response, I know there are many of us interested in the NA reflash product.
I would be happy to let you test on my NA w/ high flow cats when the time comes.
We are all partners in this and we have certainly been requesting..........
Certainly the NA market is huge compared to the boosted market, and to regain some costs, you could let the market determine if there is enough bang for the buck!
Thanks for sharing the progress on your product
I would be happy to let you test on my NA w/ high flow cats when the time comes.
We are all partners in this and we have certainly been requesting..........
Certainly the NA market is huge compared to the boosted market, and to regain some costs, you could let the market determine if there is enough bang for the buck!
Thanks for sharing the progress on your product
10-04-2007, 04:28 PM
#58
Hondata...
I'm familiar with reflashing/chipping from my VW days. When setup with the proper Vag-Com (T-Code equivalent) tools, a chip swap was as simple as a PnP drop in once each chip had been adapted to the vehicle (immobilizer function). I could drop int eh stock chip for dealer service, then swap it out in 3 minutes for daily fun.
One of the main reasons I'm hesitant/can't go with your product, is my car is a daily driver (mailing my ECU across the country is out of the question, if it's lost, you're DOWN). How feasible is it for me to pick up a used ECU from a recycler, have it adapted to my car, then send you my original ECU for flashing? I'd prefer to have an easily swappable solution for resale/supercharger failure "return to NA - stock" scenario.
What mechnaics would go into this scenario (immobilizer adaptation and such)...
Also... Adding 50 HP we all new is feasible, but really pushed the limits of the engine. Nate at Comptech himself expressed to me personally that they could have engineered in more power, but would have created a relatively unreliable scenario.
In your testing, what are your expereinces in reliability, and what are you doing to mitigate these risks?
Thanks
I'm familiar with reflashing/chipping from my VW days. When setup with the proper Vag-Com (T-Code equivalent) tools, a chip swap was as simple as a PnP drop in once each chip had been adapted to the vehicle (immobilizer function). I could drop int eh stock chip for dealer service, then swap it out in 3 minutes for daily fun.
One of the main reasons I'm hesitant/can't go with your product, is my car is a daily driver (mailing my ECU across the country is out of the question, if it's lost, you're DOWN). How feasible is it for me to pick up a used ECU from a recycler, have it adapted to my car, then send you my original ECU for flashing? I'd prefer to have an easily swappable solution for resale/supercharger failure "return to NA - stock" scenario.
What mechnaics would go into this scenario (immobilizer adaptation and such)...
Also... Adding 50 HP we all new is feasible, but really pushed the limits of the engine. Nate at Comptech himself expressed to me personally that they could have engineered in more power, but would have created a relatively unreliable scenario.
In your testing, what are your expereinces in reliability, and what are you doing to mitigate these risks?
Thanks
10-04-2007, 10:59 PM
#59
G35Killerrr
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Originally Posted by hondata
Later this year / early next we will look more closely at the NA TL. What we have found so far is:
- Dropping the VTEC point is detrimental unless you have low restriction catalytic converters and a low restriction exhaust.
- RL cams can be fitted and tuned for, but the VTEC point needs to be raised
- The NA reflash in the two TLs we have worked with, perform better on the road than on the dyno
- Dropping the VTEC point is detrimental unless you have low restriction catalytic converters and a low restriction exhaust.
- RL cams can be fitted and tuned for, but the VTEC point needs to be raised
- The NA reflash in the two TLs we have worked with, perform better on the road than on the dyno
I have no catalytic converters at all,am I a good tester for N/A
Im using o2 simualor for now but I hope hondata will come out something for N/A so I can turn the damn engine check light off with out the o2 simualor
10-05-2007, 01:14 AM
#60
2006 TL-S.C. 6mt
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Originally Posted by Kennedy
Hondata...
I'm familiar with reflashing/chipping from my VW days. When setup with the proper Vag-Com (T-Code equivalent) tools, a chip swap was as simple as a PnP drop in once each chip had been adapted to the vehicle (immobilizer function). I could drop int eh stock chip for dealer service, then swap it out in 3 minutes for daily fun.
One of the main reasons I'm hesitant/can't go with your product, is my car is a daily driver (mailing my ECU across the country is out of the question, if it's lost, you're DOWN). How feasible is it for me to pick up a used ECU from a recycler, have it adapted to my car, then send you my original ECU for flashing? I'd prefer to have an easily swappable solution for resale/supercharger failure "return to NA - stock" scenario.
What mechnaics would go into this scenario (immobilizer adaptation and such)...
Also... Adding 50 HP we all new is feasible, but really pushed the limits of the engine. Nate at Comptech himself expressed to me personally that they could have engineered in more power, but would have created a relatively unreliable scenario.
In your testing, what are your expereinces in reliability, and what are you doing to mitigate these risks?
Thanks
I'm familiar with reflashing/chipping from my VW days. When setup with the proper Vag-Com (T-Code equivalent) tools, a chip swap was as simple as a PnP drop in once each chip had been adapted to the vehicle (immobilizer function). I could drop int eh stock chip for dealer service, then swap it out in 3 minutes for daily fun.
One of the main reasons I'm hesitant/can't go with your product, is my car is a daily driver (mailing my ECU across the country is out of the question, if it's lost, you're DOWN). How feasible is it for me to pick up a used ECU from a recycler, have it adapted to my car, then send you my original ECU for flashing? I'd prefer to have an easily swappable solution for resale/supercharger failure "return to NA - stock" scenario.
What mechnaics would go into this scenario (immobilizer adaptation and such)...
Also... Adding 50 HP we all new is feasible, but really pushed the limits of the engine. Nate at Comptech himself expressed to me personally that they could have engineered in more power, but would have created a relatively unreliable scenario.
In your testing, what are your expereinces in reliability, and what are you doing to mitigate these risks?
Thanks
I gotta tell ya donkey . I've read all your pessimistic posts, and i think you are a sissy. Do you have a supercharger? I recall you are the one that hates on people removing emissions controls features from their acura. GET OVER IT. You are a hippie. Many people have said you are a hippe. Re read the posts if you dont believe it. Leave hondata alone and let them work their magic. Leave Nate alone. He did not engineer the ECM. He just sells it. Re mapping the fuel curve and getting rid of the annoying and potentially damaging surging is a miracle and i cannot wait to send my ecu 2000 miles away to be remedied. Thank you
10-05-2007, 09:33 AM
#64
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
I gotta tell ya donkey . I've read all your pessimistic posts, and i think you are a sissy. Do you have a supercharger? I recall you are the one that hates on people removing emissions controls features from their acura. GET OVER IT. You are a hippie. Many people have said you are a hippe. Re read the posts if you dont believe it. Leave hondata alone and let them work their magic. Leave Nate alone. He did not engineer the ECM. He just sells it. Re mapping the fuel curve and getting rid of the annoying and potentially damaging surging is a miracle and i cannot wait to send my ecu 2000 miles away to be remedied. Thank you
Anyone could add more boost to bring up the HP numbers, but it's the company who takes the extra step of analyzing the longevity issues that really make them stand above the rest. Comptech apparently is this kind of company. Comptech also had an 06 test car for a while, so they knew first hand what was happening with their products.
I am also not putting down Hondata on their approach. They do great things.
10-05-2007, 11:40 AM
#65
'10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Originally Posted by KN_TL
He isn't bashing on anyone and is simply asking questions. It's not being a 'sissy', it's being more than just someone with cash in hand that will bolt on anything that says 'MORE POWER'.
Anyone could add more boost to bring up the HP numbers, but it's the company who takes the extra step of analyzing the longevity issues that really make them stand above the rest. Comptech apparently is this kind of company. Comptech also had an 06 test car for a while, so they knew first hand what was happening with their products.
I am also not putting down Hondata on their approach. They do great things.
Anyone could add more boost to bring up the HP numbers, but it's the company who takes the extra step of analyzing the longevity issues that really make them stand above the rest. Comptech apparently is this kind of company. Comptech also had an 06 test car for a while, so they knew first hand what was happening with their products.
I am also not putting down Hondata on their approach. They do great things.
Hondata is a very reputable company, they have done what, 2 months ago, was considered to be impossible.
10-05-2007, 12:54 PM
#66
Originally Posted by KN_TL
He isn't bashing on anyone and is simply asking questions. It's not being a 'sissy', it's being more than just someone with cash in hand that will bolt on anything that says 'MORE POWER'.
Anyone could add more boost to bring up the HP numbers, but it's the company who takes the extra step of analyzing the longevity issues that really make them stand above the rest. Comptech apparently is this kind of company. Comptech also had an 06 test car for a while, so they knew first hand what was happening with their products.
I am also not putting down Hondata on their approach. They do great things.
Anyone could add more boost to bring up the HP numbers, but it's the company who takes the extra step of analyzing the longevity issues that really make them stand above the rest. Comptech apparently is this kind of company. Comptech also had an 06 test car for a while, so they knew first hand what was happening with their products.
I am also not putting down Hondata on their approach. They do great things.
10-05-2007, 12:59 PM
#67
Thanks KN_TL
I have a SC. Bought it used, and just got the missing parts needed to install. I'm installing it myself, becasue I can. As for your comments...
1) Your comments are some of the most ignorant I've read in a while, and since they're directed at me, I feel compelled to respond (even though I shouldn't dignify them with a response). Have you talked to Nate at Comptech? If asking questions about the reliability implications of this mod makes me a SISSY, that I'll be just that. I'm an adult, with responsibilty. Big mods like this require investigation, knowledge, risk assessment, and sound dicesion making. Perhaps you should wikipedia those big words.
I spoke to Nate about Dan... K's headgasket blowout, and Nate said... "Look, sure, we caught a lot flack for kicking out a SC with only 60HP gains. You and I both know it could do more (power is a simple of equation for more air + more fule), but we elected to go with a setup that will be 100% reliable, rather than a 100+HP charger that will run on the ragged edge of blowing your engine".
Why don't YOU quit being a SISSY and bolt that 100 shot of Nitro on YOUR car and get all you can out of it, since you have no concern of blowing your engine... Bolting parts to your car without consideration of impact is just stupid.
Have you need to read Atrain's post on the TL's bottom end (how weak the rods are heuretic vs euretic casting and such)...? I guess you didn't understand it. Oh but you don't care about other folks experiences in engine building/tuning if they don't come from Honda, unfortunately Atrain races GM stuff. He's a sissy too I guess. Since Honda is the only company that can design and build racecars, noone else out there knos anyhting... They're all cavmen.
2) Don't take thnk for a minute these comments are meant to slander, bash, or be pessimistic to Hondata. It's great to add another strong, and well established vendor to the TL support list... but:
It's not a matter of belief that Hondata can make this work, it's a matter of asking what they've done to make it reliable. Nate also explained to me that the stock Comptech SC testing is done by spending a day at the track with a series of test vehicles. That's about as harsh as it gets.
Your point is exactly valid. Comptech DID NOT design this ECM program, they're just partners. Comptech assumes no liability for your motor or the SC with this flash. Warranty is gone on both at time of install. I want to know what Hondata is doing to ensure this flash is both safe and reliable.
If you think throwing a couple of chips in couple of local cars is sufficient testing for safety and reliability, I hope your a tester, and I sincerely hope nothing bad happens... Hondata nor Acura will not buy you a new motor.
The 1st 1/2 of my question was how to get the ECM without the car being down for a week. You obviously have never had Fedex loose a package before. I'm a mechnaically handy DIY kinda guy, and I won't do this mod if it's not a) reversible, b) DIY compatible. I guess Sissy's work on thier own cars rather than throw money at monkey's to fuc sh!t up.
3) HIPPIE? Removing your cats is a federal crime, and is terrible for the environment. It's even more insulting to me when you remove them for nominal to NO demonstrated gains. It's just stupid to do, and bad for the air... If caring about this makes me a HIPPIE, then I'll be a hippy sissy... but I won't be a douchbag who removes emissions sytems to protect the environment for 2HP gain, and talk about how cool I am for doing it. Go dump your used oil in the creek, and throw your plastic water bottle out the window... now your a total badass.
I'm not treehugging pal, I'm doing the right thing. I don't care if you disable your seatbelt nag, or remove your airbags to save weight, becasue that only affect you in a crash... but every guy that removes his cats affects the environment we all live in. You're cavalier, and disrespectful disregard of these facts in the name of vanity is what is serious character defect... and since you've resorted to namecalling, you're an ignorant, self absorbed, douche with more money than brains.
4) Noone cares about VDUBs around here?... That's cool with me. Unfortunately, I have strong mechnical and systems experiences from many years of working on them... which is apparent A LOT more than you have. Keep just bolting on those parts and buying that vendor hype.
"Yah". You told me...
Now...
if we can get this back on topic., I sincerely hope for a replayfrom Hondata on how I could execute a flash with a spare ECU, and what testing they've done to ensure the reliability of install.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
I gotta tell ya donkey . I've read all your pessimistic posts, and i think you are a sissy. Do you have a supercharger? I recall you are the one that hates on people removing emissions controls features from their acura. GET OVER IT. You are a hippie. Many people have said you are a hippe. Re read the posts if you dont believe it. Leave hondata alone and let them work their magic. Leave Nate alone. He did not engineer the ECM. He just sells it. Re mapping the fuel curve and getting rid of the annoying and potentially damaging surging is a miracle and i cannot wait to send my ecu 2000 miles away to be remedied. Thank you
1) Your comments are some of the most ignorant I've read in a while, and since they're directed at me, I feel compelled to respond (even though I shouldn't dignify them with a response). Have you talked to Nate at Comptech? If asking questions about the reliability implications of this mod makes me a SISSY, that I'll be just that. I'm an adult, with responsibilty. Big mods like this require investigation, knowledge, risk assessment, and sound dicesion making. Perhaps you should wikipedia those big words.
I spoke to Nate about Dan... K's headgasket blowout, and Nate said... "Look, sure, we caught a lot flack for kicking out a SC with only 60HP gains. You and I both know it could do more (power is a simple of equation for more air + more fule), but we elected to go with a setup that will be 100% reliable, rather than a 100+HP charger that will run on the ragged edge of blowing your engine".
Why don't YOU quit being a SISSY and bolt that 100 shot of Nitro on YOUR car and get all you can out of it, since you have no concern of blowing your engine... Bolting parts to your car without consideration of impact is just stupid.
Have you need to read Atrain's post on the TL's bottom end (how weak the rods are heuretic vs euretic casting and such)...? I guess you didn't understand it. Oh but you don't care about other folks experiences in engine building/tuning if they don't come from Honda, unfortunately Atrain races GM stuff. He's a sissy too I guess. Since Honda is the only company that can design and build racecars, noone else out there knos anyhting... They're all cavmen.
2) Don't take thnk for a minute these comments are meant to slander, bash, or be pessimistic to Hondata. It's great to add another strong, and well established vendor to the TL support list... but:
It's not a matter of belief that Hondata can make this work, it's a matter of asking what they've done to make it reliable. Nate also explained to me that the stock Comptech SC testing is done by spending a day at the track with a series of test vehicles. That's about as harsh as it gets.
Your point is exactly valid. Comptech DID NOT design this ECM program, they're just partners. Comptech assumes no liability for your motor or the SC with this flash. Warranty is gone on both at time of install. I want to know what Hondata is doing to ensure this flash is both safe and reliable.
If you think throwing a couple of chips in couple of local cars is sufficient testing for safety and reliability, I hope your a tester, and I sincerely hope nothing bad happens... Hondata nor Acura will not buy you a new motor.
The 1st 1/2 of my question was how to get the ECM without the car being down for a week. You obviously have never had Fedex loose a package before. I'm a mechnaically handy DIY kinda guy, and I won't do this mod if it's not a) reversible, b) DIY compatible. I guess Sissy's work on thier own cars rather than throw money at monkey's to fuc sh!t up.
3) HIPPIE? Removing your cats is a federal crime, and is terrible for the environment. It's even more insulting to me when you remove them for nominal to NO demonstrated gains. It's just stupid to do, and bad for the air... If caring about this makes me a HIPPIE, then I'll be a hippy sissy... but I won't be a douchbag who removes emissions sytems to protect the environment for 2HP gain, and talk about how cool I am for doing it. Go dump your used oil in the creek, and throw your plastic water bottle out the window... now your a total badass.
I'm not treehugging pal, I'm doing the right thing. I don't care if you disable your seatbelt nag, or remove your airbags to save weight, becasue that only affect you in a crash... but every guy that removes his cats affects the environment we all live in. You're cavalier, and disrespectful disregard of these facts in the name of vanity is what is serious character defect... and since you've resorted to namecalling, you're an ignorant, self absorbed, douche with more money than brains.
4) Noone cares about VDUBs around here?... That's cool with me. Unfortunately, I have strong mechnical and systems experiences from many years of working on them... which is apparent A LOT more than you have. Keep just bolting on those parts and buying that vendor hype.
"Yah". You told me...
Now...
if we can get this back on topic., I sincerely hope for a replayfrom Hondata on how I could execute a flash with a spare ECU, and what testing they've done to ensure the reliability of install.
10-05-2007, 04:15 PM
#68
tehLEGOman
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I am crazy enough to drive my TL across the country in order to take one for the team.
Hurry up Californians before i coerce myself into doing something like that.
Hurry up Californians before i coerce myself into doing something like that.
10-05-2007, 04:40 PM
#70
tehLEGOman
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Originally Posted by PPLAPW
^ But you already have 100,000 miles!
10-05-2007, 11:23 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Kennedy
One of the main reasons I'm hesitant/can't go with your product, is my car is a daily driver (mailing my ECU across the country is out of the question, if it's lost, you're DOWN). How feasible is it for me to pick up a used ECU from a recycler, have it adapted to my car, then send you my original ECU for flashing? I'd prefer to have an easily swappable solution for resale/supercharger failure "return to NA - stock" scenario.
What mechnaics would go into this scenario (immobilizer adaptation and such)...
Also... Adding 50 HP we all new is feasible, but really pushed the limits of the engine. Nate at Comptech himself expressed to me personally that they could have engineered in more power, but would have created a relatively unreliable scenario.
In your testing, what are your expereinces in reliability, and what are you doing to mitigate these risks?
Thanks
Return to stock is $75 including overnight shipping.
Any form of power increase involves risk. Forced induction more so. That being said, supercharging is a lot more reliable than turbocharging. To eliminate the risk you stay stock.
We have some considerable experience with tuning. In all of the forced induction systems we get to develop tunes for, the cars make more power, run smoother and cleaner with less stress on the engine.
The engine gets the correct fuel and the correct ignition timing for forced induction at all times.
For example, if you have a supercharger you will have experienced the car hesitating at partial throttle. That is because the ECU is leaning the fuel out to 14.7 while the car is under boost. We fix that.
10-06-2007, 01:47 AM
#73
2006 TL-S.C. 6mt
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Age: 42
Posts: 444
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Originally Posted by Kennedy
Thanks KN_TL
I have a SC. Bought it used, and just got the missing parts needed to install. I'm installing it myself, becasue I can. As for your comments...
1) Your comments are some of the most ignorant I've read in a while, and since they're directed at me, I feel compelled to respond (even though I shouldn't dignify them with a response). Have you talked to Nate at Comptech? If asking questions about the reliability implications of this mod makes me a SISSY, that I'll be just that. I'm an adult, with responsibilty. Big mods like this require investigation, knowledge, risk assessment, and sound dicesion making. Perhaps you should wikipedia those big words.
I spoke to Nate about Dan... K's headgasket blowout, and Nate said... "Look, sure, we caught a lot flack for kicking out a SC with only 60HP gains. You and I both know it could do more (power is a simple of equation for more air + more fule), but we elected to go with a setup that will be 100% reliable, rather than a 100+HP charger that will run on the ragged edge of blowing your engine".
Why don't YOU quit being a SISSY and bolt that 100 shot of Nitro on YOUR car and get all you can out of it, since you have no concern of blowing your engine... Bolting parts to your car without consideration of impact is just stupid.
Have you need to read Atrain's post on the TL's bottom end (how weak the rods are heuretic vs euretic casting and such)...? I guess you didn't understand it. Oh but you don't care about other folks experiences in engine building/tuning if they don't come from Honda, unfortunately Atrain races GM stuff. He's a sissy too I guess. Since Honda is the only company that can design and build racecars, noone else out there knos anyhting... They're all cavmen.
2) Don't take thnk for a minute these comments are meant to slander, bash, or be pessimistic to Hondata. It's great to add another strong, and well established vendor to the TL support list... but:
It's not a matter of belief that Hondata can make this work, it's a matter of asking what they've done to make it reliable. Nate also explained to me that the stock Comptech SC testing is done by spending a day at the track with a series of test vehicles. That's about as harsh as it gets.
Your point is exactly valid. Comptech DID NOT design this ECM program, they're just partners. Comptech assumes no liability for your motor or the SC with this flash. Warranty is gone on both at time of install. I want to know what Hondata is doing to ensure this flash is both safe and reliable.
If you think throwing a couple of chips in couple of local cars is sufficient testing for safety and reliability, I hope your a tester, and I sincerely hope nothing bad happens... Hondata nor Acura will not buy you a new motor.
The 1st 1/2 of my question was how to get the ECM without the car being down for a week. You obviously have never had Fedex loose a package before. I'm a mechnaically handy DIY kinda guy, and I won't do this mod if it's not a) reversible, b) DIY compatible. I guess Sissy's work on thier own cars rather than throw money at monkey's to fuc sh!t up.
3) HIPPIE? Removing your cats is a federal crime, and is terrible for the environment. It's even more insulting to me when you remove them for nominal to NO demonstrated gains. It's just stupid to do, and bad for the air... If caring about this makes me a HIPPIE, then I'll be a hippy sissy... but I won't be a douchbag who removes emissions sytems to protect the environment for 2HP gain, and talk about how cool I am for doing it. Go dump your used oil in the creek, and throw your plastic water bottle out the window... now your a total badass.
I'm not treehugging pal, I'm doing the right thing. I don't care if you disable your seatbelt nag, or remove your airbags to save weight, becasue that only affect you in a crash... but every guy that removes his cats affects the environment we all live in. You're cavalier, and disrespectful disregard of these facts in the name of vanity is what is serious character defect... and since you've resorted to namecalling, you're an ignorant, self absorbed, douche with more money than brains.
4) Noone cares about VDUBs around here?... That's cool with me. Unfortunately, I have strong mechnical and systems experiences from many years of working on them... which is apparent A LOT more than you have. Keep just bolting on those parts and buying that vendor hype.
"Yah". You told me...
Now...
if we can get this back on topic., I sincerely hope for a replayfrom Hondata on how I could execute a flash with a spare ECU, and what testing they've done to ensure the reliability of install.
I have a SC. Bought it used, and just got the missing parts needed to install. I'm installing it myself, becasue I can. As for your comments...
1) Your comments are some of the most ignorant I've read in a while, and since they're directed at me, I feel compelled to respond (even though I shouldn't dignify them with a response). Have you talked to Nate at Comptech? If asking questions about the reliability implications of this mod makes me a SISSY, that I'll be just that. I'm an adult, with responsibilty. Big mods like this require investigation, knowledge, risk assessment, and sound dicesion making. Perhaps you should wikipedia those big words.
I spoke to Nate about Dan... K's headgasket blowout, and Nate said... "Look, sure, we caught a lot flack for kicking out a SC with only 60HP gains. You and I both know it could do more (power is a simple of equation for more air + more fule), but we elected to go with a setup that will be 100% reliable, rather than a 100+HP charger that will run on the ragged edge of blowing your engine".
Why don't YOU quit being a SISSY and bolt that 100 shot of Nitro on YOUR car and get all you can out of it, since you have no concern of blowing your engine... Bolting parts to your car without consideration of impact is just stupid.
Have you need to read Atrain's post on the TL's bottom end (how weak the rods are heuretic vs euretic casting and such)...? I guess you didn't understand it. Oh but you don't care about other folks experiences in engine building/tuning if they don't come from Honda, unfortunately Atrain races GM stuff. He's a sissy too I guess. Since Honda is the only company that can design and build racecars, noone else out there knos anyhting... They're all cavmen.
2) Don't take thnk for a minute these comments are meant to slander, bash, or be pessimistic to Hondata. It's great to add another strong, and well established vendor to the TL support list... but:
It's not a matter of belief that Hondata can make this work, it's a matter of asking what they've done to make it reliable. Nate also explained to me that the stock Comptech SC testing is done by spending a day at the track with a series of test vehicles. That's about as harsh as it gets.
Your point is exactly valid. Comptech DID NOT design this ECM program, they're just partners. Comptech assumes no liability for your motor or the SC with this flash. Warranty is gone on both at time of install. I want to know what Hondata is doing to ensure this flash is both safe and reliable.
If you think throwing a couple of chips in couple of local cars is sufficient testing for safety and reliability, I hope your a tester, and I sincerely hope nothing bad happens... Hondata nor Acura will not buy you a new motor.
The 1st 1/2 of my question was how to get the ECM without the car being down for a week. You obviously have never had Fedex loose a package before. I'm a mechnaically handy DIY kinda guy, and I won't do this mod if it's not a) reversible, b) DIY compatible. I guess Sissy's work on thier own cars rather than throw money at monkey's to fuc sh!t up.
3) HIPPIE? Removing your cats is a federal crime, and is terrible for the environment. It's even more insulting to me when you remove them for nominal to NO demonstrated gains. It's just stupid to do, and bad for the air... If caring about this makes me a HIPPIE, then I'll be a hippy sissy... but I won't be a douchbag who removes emissions sytems to protect the environment for 2HP gain, and talk about how cool I am for doing it. Go dump your used oil in the creek, and throw your plastic water bottle out the window... now your a total badass.
I'm not treehugging pal, I'm doing the right thing. I don't care if you disable your seatbelt nag, or remove your airbags to save weight, becasue that only affect you in a crash... but every guy that removes his cats affects the environment we all live in. You're cavalier, and disrespectful disregard of these facts in the name of vanity is what is serious character defect... and since you've resorted to namecalling, you're an ignorant, self absorbed, douche with more money than brains.
4) Noone cares about VDUBs around here?... That's cool with me. Unfortunately, I have strong mechnical and systems experiences from many years of working on them... which is apparent A LOT more than you have. Keep just bolting on those parts and buying that vendor hype.
"Yah". You told me...
Now...
if we can get this back on topic., I sincerely hope for a replayfrom Hondata on how I could execute a flash with a spare ECU, and what testing they've done to ensure the reliability of install.
Ahh. Im glad you have proved you have nothing better to do than talk smack in the acura forums in which the majority of the members are younger than 17 years old and the TLs they are proud of are titled to their parents. Hondata will NOT blow our indestructible motors, they are merely squeezing the most they can out of an engine with a fairly new (its new not KNEW) roots type supercharged "japanese" motor. They have solved the problem of the lack of fuel upon light throttle the " buck buck" we all supercharged members havce been dealing with for what seems an eternity. I am glad. I trust UPS or FEDEX or DHL. I dont care i will drive the ECU out to cali in my 89 Acura legend with 220k miles. It doesnt matter how it gets there. I trust they will take care of me.
If you are so concerned about federal violations why aren't you a local cop in your city? Wait what city is it? I don't know because you are too shy to post what "city"you live in bec you are afraid of people knowing what you really drive.
I have read many of the comments you have made to the posts many devoted people in this public free forum have made. Frankly i dont think your negativity has any relevance or positive impact to the thread. I also dont think it was a good idea to purchase a used supercharger from someone. Good luck installing it.
Wait? Im pretty sure a supercharger effects emissions standards Oh God forbid you violate emissions regulations in your state. You tree hugger.
Enjoy this argument because i also having nothing better to do than to read your rebuttal to this pointless argument.
10-06-2007, 01:56 AM
#74
2006 TL-S.C. 6mt
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Age: 42
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I forgot to mention. I am ASE certified. ( if we are throwing out awards here) i can build a space shuttle while you work on your mini cooper. I have more qualifications than you can imagine. Why dont you build your own supercharger then ????
10-06-2007, 02:09 AM
#75
I think some healthy debates are great. As long as they contain some factual information that relates to the topic, and are not purely based on "name-calling" - we all learn.
I hope mods don't look this...
Anyway, I'm excited that the reflash will open new doors to forced induction, because I can't stand the sc whine - although the power gains are quiet appealing.
I hope mods don't look this...
Anyway, I'm excited that the reflash will open new doors to forced induction, because I can't stand the sc whine - although the power gains are quiet appealing.
10-06-2007, 09:45 AM
#77
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
Ahh. Im glad you have proved you have nothing better to do than talk smack in the acura forums in which the majority of the members are younger than 17 years old and the TLs they are proud of are titled to their parents.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
Hondata will NOT blow our indestructible motors, they are merely squeezing the most they can out of an engine with a fairly new (its new not KNEW) roots type supercharged "japanese" motor. They have solved the problem of the lack of fuel upon light throttle the " buck buck" we all supercharged members havce been dealing with for what seems an eternity.
I'm not questioning Hondata's "abilities", I was merely asking what level of testing they're doing to ensure reliability.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
I am glad. I trust UPS or FEDEX or DHL. I dont care i will drive the ECU out to cali in my 89 Acura legend with 220k miles. It doesnt matter how it gets there. I trust they will take care of me.
Sure. I'll jump in the 2000 Nissan Xterra with 35K miles, or ride my 2003 V-Rod in the interim while I wait for mine too... but that's not how I do things after that experience. Glad you have such faith in your courier services, and you're fortunate enough to have two cars.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
If you are so concerned about federal violations why aren't you a local cop in your city? Wait what city is it? I don't know because you are too shy to post what "city"you live in bec you are afraid of people knowing what you really drive.
You should search my posts... Not only do I post lots of pictures of my mod work, I've actually invited local members over to my home for assistance with other mods (Ask LeeDog or jmbnova). Many have SEEN what I drive. I also have made many reference to my locality in my posts as well, Northern Virginia... but since you seem so interested, Stafford, VA - and I commute to DC in my TL.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
I have read many of the comments you have made to the posts many devoted people in this public free forum have made. Frankly i dont think your negativity has any relevance or positive impact to the thread.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
I also dont think it was a good idea to purchase a used supercharger from someone. Good luck installing it.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
Wait? Im pretty sure a supercharger effects emissions standards Oh God forbid you violate emissions regulations in your state. You tree hugger.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
Enjoy this argument because i also having nothing better to do than to read your rebuttal to this pointless argument.
Originally Posted by 03TL_S
I forgot to mention. I am ASE certified. ( if we are throwing out awards here) i can build a space shuttle while you work on your mini cooper. I have more qualifications than you can imagine. Why dont you build your own supercharger then ????
Unfortunately, it's degreed engineers who design and build space shuttles, and Vocational college attendee's which result in ASE certification who work on Mini Coopers.
No need building my own SC, CT makes a nice one, which I own. With all your talents, why don't you take some time off from the space shuttle program and build your own chiptune instead of being Hondata fanboy?
10-06-2007, 10:31 AM
#79
Originally Posted by Kennedy
- and build your own chiptune instead of being Hondata fanboy?
I have answered your questions and yet you respond by polluting this thread with insults.
Moderators, please close this thread.
10-06-2007, 10:44 AM
#80
302.7 WHP 251.3 Torque
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburg, CA
Age: 75
Posts: 154
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Hello All:
At 58 years old, I hope I change the average age of the folks on this forum to be well over 17.
I have had Doug/Hondata do two versions of their reflash on my 04TL and both times the performance showed improvements. I live in Northern Cal, which is about 400 miles from Hondata, and I will drive back to see Doug when ever he wants me to.
I am glad to assist in the development of the TL reflash and I hope when it is complete many folks will support Hondata.
They are a great group of people.
Tim
At 58 years old, I hope I change the average age of the folks on this forum to be well over 17.
I have had Doug/Hondata do two versions of their reflash on my 04TL and both times the performance showed improvements. I live in Northern Cal, which is about 400 miles from Hondata, and I will drive back to see Doug when ever he wants me to.
I am glad to assist in the development of the TL reflash and I hope when it is complete many folks will support Hondata.
They are a great group of people.
Tim