I hate cars

I can only imagine the people reading this laughing at your ignorance. It's obvious all you want to do is argue since the every question you've asked has already been answered.. I wouldn't be so aggressive but I fully understand what you're trying to accomplish so I'll play along.

Again, put any plug you want in your TL I don't care. Honda has different goals than some of us. I don't mind changing plugs every 40k so I run regular plugs.

The materials used do not produce a better or worse spark. Define "better or worse spark" Do you know what effective compression ratio is? I'll give you a clue, the GN under 30psi runs an effective compression ratio of over 18:1. Power and torque are in a direct relation to cylinder pressure and it runs double what the TL does. Cylinder pressure determines spark requirements. It has much more intensive plug requirements than a TL does. I don't know where you were going with this and I doubt you do either.
No, no, no. Af stays the same regardless of what plug you use. Do some research on your own, I'm not your parent. Rich or lean is not a plug issue. Only in the event of a misfire would it show a rich mixture and that's a false rich. This is the ratio of air to fuel. Explain how a particular spark plug can change the ratio that is already existing in the cylinder before the plug is fired...

What issues with the car's ignition are you talking about? I'll stop you right there if you were going with resistance. The resistance of the gap changes in relation to cylinder pressure so don't bother with that one.

Are you really this dense or are you trying to get under my skin? Spark does not work off of timing. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. The spark occurs at a particular time which is controlled by the ECU, not the plug. The plug is nothing more than an air gap to produce an arc.

If you install the wrong heat range the plug itself will ignite the mixture without the spark. For the 10th time, the heat range is indicated in the part number. It makes no difference if the plug costs $1 or $100, it's going to have whatever heat range you choose to buy.
The GN guys are pioneers, bringing turbo technology to the mainstream. These guys are on a different level than you're used to. These guys are the ones that thought out of the box and brought a lot of streetable innovation so keep that foot in your mouth. You're really going to badmouth a group of people with small displacement cars built in the '80s that will annihilate even the quickest TL out there? Just leave the foot there for the rest of the night.

So to sum this up, you believe that price determines heat range.

Spark works off of timing... lol

And it's your turn. Tell me what "a cheap one won't perform as good as the others" means. What exactly does "perform" mean in relation to plugs? How is one arc better than another?

I hate cars

You don't get it. This is not hypothetical. This has all been done before, many times. Besides all of the data, you forget, I'M RUNNING $2 PLUGS IN MY TL AND HAVE BEEN FOR 40,000 MILES.

Obviously your education is not helping in your reading comprehension. And don't give me that objective reasoning crap. You and I both know what's going on here.

OntheJob

WOW MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS.. glad to see who the mature person is here.

Um, are you serious? you mean to tell me that you dont KNOW that spark plugs FIRE on a timing in relation to where the piston is and when the air/fuel is injected???????????????????????? Do you know what detonation is? PREMATURE IGNITION FYI... and when this occurs as in having a plug that magically in your world isnt on timing schedule would destroy your motor.....

so your telling me that the cam in a car which is attached to the distributor or our case coil packs that work off the ECU which in return lets the plug know when to FIRE does not happen??????? that is called spark timing sir.. other wise getting a spark as the piston is still on the way up causes detonation or in YOUR WORLD having plugs that dont fire on some sort of timing based system would fire when? when the piston is at the bottom, and maybe next time in the middle? GTFO!

A stronger spark that is provided by newer, or better plugs helps complete ignition of the A/F... if not why change the plugs at all... YOUR WORLD AGAIN... shnoz berries taste like shnoz berries.

I hate cars

And the education comment was not a personal attack? You need thicker skin. You're not making a case for education when an uneducated redneck is wiping the floor with you.
Fuel is injected on the intake stroke, about 360 degrees from when the plug is fired..
Actually PREMATURE IGNITION is called PRE-IGNITION. Detonation is usually a result of pre-ignition but can be caused by other things such as 2 flame fronts colliding and too high of compression causing an explosion instead of a controlled burn.
Not sure why you're all of a sudden focused on ignition timing when a plug has no control over timing. Did we switch subjects when I wasn't looking?
Gee, I've owned, built, and tuned turbo cars since I was 17 but thanks for explaining ignition timing and detonation to me.
Again, how does a "better" plug "help complete ignition"? You have no answer because there is none. Calling me a newb, that's classic. Like taking candy from a baby....

OntheJob

Here you are assuming again.. with your opinion again.. if you readddddd what Im saying, I am saying that PRICE reflects quality, which in return effects performance, hence the more expensive plugs Honda uses in their engines, and why the owners manual does not tell you to replace with cheap plugs.

And if your opinion was true, then we should all put the cheapest tires on our cars including your 80'sGN or whatever it is, because hey.. rubber is rubber, and conventional oil is the same, synthetic is a gimmick, oh and while were at it, what ever you do dont put high test in your car, gas is gas. sorry sir, but you fail.

OntheJob

Yawn, I know what pre-mature ignition is, and that is based on spark timing again as stated, your calling out information that your not reading and trying to make me look dumb.. but great job.

Redneck... well you stated that not me...

I never said the PLUG has control over the timing, I said the plug fires on a timing schedule to avoid detonation. Again Read.....

No one cares about your turbo GN, and if so why arent you on that forum? oh thats right cause you have been banned from there as well as here multiple times, and thats why I have numerous pms from people all stating your personal attacks on other members and your know it all opinion based, non fact having statements which WILL cause people to go against Honda recommendations and causing issues....

a "better" plug will have a more consistent spark, because of better quality, yielding maximum performance on each ignition and combustion. You should know this come on turbo boy. Or you could ignore Honda use cheap ones and your motor runs like poop.

I hate cars

OMG the train wreck continues. You dig yourself in worse with every post. I can't wait to re-read all of this in the morning for a good laugh.

So from me saying it's ok to run the cheaper plugs as long as you change them more often, you got from that "rubber is rubber, and conventional oil is the same, synthetic is a gimmick, oh and while were at it, what ever you do dont put high test in your car, gas is gas". Have you really been to college?

The price of the plugs does not reflect quality, it reflects the materials the plugs are coated with. Iridium is very, very expensive. That is the only reason iridium plugs cost more. It does not mean they are of a higher quality.

Of course the owner's manual is not going to give specifics on what you CAN do. It tells you to replace with the same plugs the car came with which I understand.

Honda also says to only use Z1 fluid in the trans. Read any transmission threads lately?

Back on topic, explain how these "higher quality" plugs make any difference whatsoever on performance? They are the same when first installed. The only difference is iridium plugs will retain the gap and hold up better over the long haul which goes back to my original statement to use iridiums if you go with the factory interval or cheap plugs if you change more often.

I can't wait to see what's next in this "intelligent debate".

OntheJob

Yawn again sir.... the rubber, and gas analogy is how you reason with your spark plugs discrediting your recommendation that the cheap plugs are the same... you get what you pay for sir... hence the higher cost of iridium plugs, high test gas, and stickier rubber.. I shouldnt have to explain that to you.

your statement here below contradicts itself in the first and last sentence yawn once again..........: The price of the plugs does not reflect quality, it reflects the materials the plugs are coated with. Iridium is very, very expensive. That is the only reason iridium plugs cost more. It does not mean they are of a higher quality."

a higher quality plug is better because of the more expensive materials used and construction will yield a better spark, if it didnt then their wouldnt be a market for expensive plugs. -Discredited

Transmission fluid: gosh... yawn once again... of course I spent more money on better fluid then OEM honda... because it was BETTER and an UPGRADE, I didnt put HONEY in my transmission to save costs and downgrade like you do with you spark plugs.-Discredited


your statement again "The only difference is iridium plugs will retain the gap"

so your telling me the more expensive plugs will retain gap, which in return retains performance, which in return discredits your argument once again about why using cheap plugs could have ill effect on performance. sighhhhh Discredited again.

I hate cars

And here we go again....

You don't know what premature ignition is as evidenced by your other post, right there for everyone to read.

Premature ignition is not limited to overly advanced ignition timing. The plug itself can become an ignition source (without the spark) if it runs too hot resulting in........preignition lol.
Do you even understand yourself?
Never been banned from there. Don't care about your PMs. I can guess exactly who PM'd you. You're not getting personal, are you? Everything I have stated is fact. Just because you don't get it does not make it an opinion. Educate yourself.

On the other hand saying using a non OEM plug "will cause people to go against Honda recommendations and causing issues...." is an opinion and a poor one at that. What were you saying about sheep earlier. I think I see one.
Explain "more consistent spark". It fires or it does not fire. Did you forget already that I've been running cheap ones for a long time now? I know that was a whole 10 minutes ago but my car runs great. You're still in your hypothetical world, I've been running these things for a few years. I know that fact is not something you want to acknowledge so you can ignore it for a 4th time if you choose to.

OntheJob

ACTUALLY SIR, saying "not listening to Honda and using cheap plugs is against Honda recommendation", is a FACT, thats why they call for the iridium plug, again thats FACT, if you dont believe me open your OWNERS MANUAL.

you sir, still have not come up with the PROOF, Claiming cheap plugs will not reduce performance or hurt an engine... and could cost someone an engine. So until you come up with FACT not your GN turbo opinon, on why we should use cheap plugs then dont be telling people to go against manufacturing advice. IF that was the case then we should follow your opinion reasoning and go against honda recommendations on everything else.. I mean god.. Honda has no idea what their doing, even though they designed and built this engine with specific parts and reasons behind them. If only they knew you knew more then them... wow.. the possibilities. again you fail.

I hate cars

The only thing you get for the additional price is a plug that will go more miles before needing to be replaced. Rubber, gas, all of that is completely irrelevent but you just can't figure it out for yourself.
So you're discrediting me based on your opinion? LOL. I don't mind repeating myself so for the 5th time, better materials, iridium in this case, will last longer before needing to be replaced. If this is "better" to you, fine. But performance will be identical for the first 40,000 miles or more. Are you incapable of understanding?
I like how you think writing "discreditied" next to your opinion makes it true. It sort of looks desperate.

Acura says not to use anything but Z1. You used a non recommended non OEM fluid in your trans. By your argument you're going to have problems. Or are you basing your fluid's effectiveness on price...

Wow, you're on the verge of seeing the light after only 3 pages of nonsense on your part. The iridium plugs will retain their gap over time and at some point will have better performance if you leave the cheap plugs in too long. However, they will start with exactly the same performance. If only you were able to see this sooner.

I hate cars

I'm getting dizzy from going around in this circle you've created. I'm going to start copying and pasting my replies since you come up with the exact same thing every few posts. So time #5: Iridium is used for a longer change interval which is why the manual recommends them.
Stop talking about my GN, you're making me sick of it.

I think this is time #5 or is it 6?? I'll put it in bold so maybe you'll see it... I'm running a $2 plug in my TL and have been for 40,000 miles with no change in performance or mpg.

Do you realize you're arguing a hypothetical point to someone who is using the plugs in question.....in the real world?

I don't know more than Honda but I'm not one of the sheep like you. I know their reasoning for using an iridium plug and since I don't like to leave my plugs in for 100,000 miles I went with the cheaper plug with absolutely no downsides.

I wouldn't use Honda engineers as your argument. Let's not forget all of the trans issues they could not resolve which I did with the pressure switches and fluid. Let's not forget about the factory detonation issues. There is room for improvement over the factory design.

OntheJob

Your arguments are going from one stance to another, your saying using CHEAP 'plain jane" plugs as you put it will work the same... which is opinion not fact, and is detrimental to an engine.

Me putting better transmission fluid in my car, based on the fluid research and testing which produced FACT of out performing OEM fluids for cars is an upgrade, not a downgrade like your spark plugs.... If I put honey or KY jelly or some $1 cheap advanced auto parts ATF in my trans then I could see your point, which is the same point Im making about your cheap plugs.. its dangerous.. and you get what you pay for.

I mean shoot, if that was the case lets both work on sending Honda an email about using cheaper metal in their engines, and cheap parts all based on your opinion so we can just save costs but not sacrifice reliability or performance.. you sir fail again.

You sir just make no sense, good night, and happy motoring.

OntheJob

Your always right.

OntheJob

AGAIN NO FACT JUST OPINION... run along GN boy, go play with your silly little turbos and blow off valves.. until you can prove your statement above WITH FACT AND NOT YOUR OPINON, YOU AGAIN... FAIL.

I hate cars

My stance has not changed, you are not comprehending anhything.

Saying the cheap plugs are detrimental to the engine is a terrible opinion.
Do you have proof the cheap plugs are inferior or dangerous? Once again, how are cheap plugs dangerous? You have nothing to stand on and I'm tired of attempting to explain it to you. You don't get it, accept it and move on. You're incapable of learning anything. I should charge you for this lesson tonight.

How do you know your ATF choice is better than Z1? Let me guess, it costs more...
Yes, because "cheaper metal" used in an engine is the exact same thing as running a cheaper spark plug for a shorter interval.

You have no reasoning skills whatsoever. Once you lose the argument you draw these insane conclusions. Logic.... learn it.

#7.... I'm running $2 plugs for 40,000 miles with absolutely no downsides. You have never changed plugs in the TL.

I never thought anyone would top "manual transmission" with ignorance. I was wrong.

I hate cars

LOL. Is someone getting mad.... It's a fact I've been running these plugs for a long time in the TL with no downsides at all. You just can't accept it.

Are you obsessed with my GN? You can't stop bringing it up. If you're lucky I might let you wash it for me one day.

I hate cars

I know.

You may want to read your own signature sometime.

OntheJob

My ATF of choice Royal purple has research and performance gain FACT BASED ON DYNO results.. which is fact, as well as info on the site. Not because of cost.. it costs more because it also happens to be of better quality... I mean it goes hand in hand but you have no idea of what quality is hence why you buy cheap plugs for your car.

Cheaper parts for an engine would have less reliability and performance, go ahead make pistons or any other part out of crappy metal and see what happens.. again YOUR REASONING not mine, you think cheaper plugs as the cheaper engine metal as an analogy to shows your arrogance has no cost when it comes to quality and or performance.


Manual Transmission topic? I have no clue what your talking about nor do I care.

Again you have no FACT, JUST YOUR KNOW IT ALL OPINION.

OntheJob

Grand Nationals are nice... no doubt to that. Not mad.

I hate cars

Apparently I'm smarter than you. I buy the right plugs for the intended usage. I know this concept is way over your head but I'm sure you'll attempt another reply.

I happen to know RP is better quality but I can easily call you out. How do you know it's better quality? Because the RP literature told you so in so called "tests". How much FM does it use compared to Z1? Define "higher quality". Have you ever seen it tested in a TL? Have you ever personally run it on a dyno before and after? You're completely full of shit if you can't answer all of these questions.

Basing a trans fluid choice on dyno gains is just pathetic. All fluids are within the margin of error on a dyno or in other words can not be measured. This shows a gross lack of knowledge on your part.
You don't get even the most basic sarcasm... Blah blah blah. If you can't grasp spark plugs, just give up on the rest of the engine. But... #8 I've been running $2 plugs for 40,000 miles with no issues.
You and him would be great friends.
You have a short memory.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

So are you using the ngk BKR8EIX? I used the zex plugs as well and they were causing misfires. Rodney even told me that his r&d guys had seen a ground strap break off the zex plugs

I switched back to the BKR8EIX gaped at .020 and Im running great. I was tempted to buy the plugs used in the rdx (made specifically for the boosted rdx and no one else with a heat range of 8) but at 16 bucks a plug I cant justify that price since the current plugs are running fine

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I am running IFR8H-11's. Rodney told me the same thing. I thought my tune was the issue for what I had but a lot of it was plugs. I paid $8.99 per plug @ my local AdvanceAuto.

It was hard trying to find the right plug. I bought a set of standard NGK's with the same specs but with no resistor. They were dirt cheap but I wasn't sure if running no resistor was going to be a problem.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Ah....(light bulb goes off)....

Back in the day, the only electronics was the radio and this was just an annoyance. Now it's for real.

Thanks for turning on the light for me.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

This thread has obviously run its course. You two can put each other on 'ignore' and part ways. I imagine this is the only warning you two will receive.