Opel

hello boys...just thought i'd share this. Whoever hasn't seen the inside of the MT, there's some pics.

It started out as outta the blue, driving one night (normal driving. wasn't pushing the car or banging through the gears or anything), i started hearing some wobbly clicking noise...took me a bit to figure it out bcs i thought it was just something stuck under the car...untill i finally realized it only did it while in 3rd gear... there was no grinding going into 3rd, or popping outta 3rd...it shifted perfectly normal, except for abnormal clicking sound (also a lil vibration through the shifter if ya paid attention)

at the time at first i didnt know where it came from...it could't be any axles bcs it only did it in 3rd gear, so my fears right away shifted towards the transmission.

jacked up the car few days later, and ran the transmission on jack stands...sure enough i could clearly hear it was coming from inside the tranny when i crawled underneath the car and listened.

after that, it was clear i had to drop it on the floor. Still not really knowing what had gone wrong inside that thing.

took me about 5 hrs to have the tranny on the floor opened up...
and here's pics



heres a mess




Thats the countershaft 3rd gear, and the countershaft.
The countershaft missing half a tooth, and 3 stripped of the 3rd gear.
For anyone who doesnt know, the 2 dont mate together. the 3rd gear slides into the countershaft. The part of the countershaft with the broken tooth engages with the differential directly at all times.



this is the new countershaft with the new 3rd gear fully assembled.
5th and 6th gear synchro is also part of it. So you know, shifting of 5th and 6th gear happens on the countershaft. 1-4th on the mainshaft. (i know most know this, just a bit of ED for whoever)


ready to be closed up




this is what's cool. a magnet sits at the bottom of the tranny. this is where i found all 4 broken teeth, stuck on the thing. the little sucker sucked them all lol


this is about all the pics i had taken...i was more into fixing it then having it model...on that note...i had about 2 weeks downtime.... first about 5 hrs to drop it on the floor. then ordered the parts few days later which took a week to get here (from CA, and the other place would've been Japan) . They cost about $300, thats for the coutershaft and 3rd gear.
I threw some extra stuff in there (like new throw out bearing) but, thats about how much the cost of fixing it was, plus fluids (which were due to change anyway)
at the same time, I threw in a new steering rack as well, but thats another story.

after i got the parts, i had to wait till the weekend to get the car up and running so in the meantime i changed everything and reassembled the tranny completely.
Yesterday took me about another 6 hrs to close everything up including new fluids (steering and tranny)...drove the car today, shifts fine, drives fine, no problems at normal driving, no grinding, no difficulty engaging gears, nothing at all.

tragichero

iTrader: (5)

Dude thats crazy! I wonder what caused all this and if this is related to the 3rd gear problems everyone talks about? Your thoughts? What do you think caused that much damage?

I hope that this isnt the beginning of a trend for all us 6mt guys out here.

phee

iTrader: (5)

shoulda checked the preload on the diff while you were in there! good job. i did something similar when my case half cracked. theres a thread in the main section.

Opel

honestly, i dont have a clue, other than maybe a weak link somewhere in there...i haven't been monitoring tranny problems at all...the earlier model TL had 2nd gear synchro problems ( i had mine changed)...after that, everything's been fine. I have heard about 3rd gear, but i didnt know whether it was the gear or the synchro...ppl that told me about it, weren't the ones that had experienced any 3rd gear problems. they had just heard, so i didnt really take their word for whether it was the gear or the synchro.

as far as im concerned, anything can go wrong at anytime in the tranny..being careful on how u shift can go a long way in helping reduce breaking anything. ive been running this for almost 7 years and the only problem i ever had the 2nd gear synchro, like i mentioned and that was changed under warranty..this was years ago.

other than that, currently i cant draw any conclusions whether every other MT is prone to this, just yet

Opel

i checked a buncha stuff while in there...my main goal was to change what really absolutely needed replacing, and get the thing running ASAP.
everything else was solid. Time will tell...in the meantime, ill try and get my hands on a spare tranny, and see what i can do with it

Yonkers914

iTrader: (1)

wow nice job and pretty cool to see inside the tranny. and that magnet part is awsome.

Richie v6

Very nice, so the car was still drivable with 4 missing teeth?

Opel

yes it drove fine , even in 3rd (it was a month since it happened until i dropped the tranny)...but i skipped 3rd and went 2-4...i wasn't sure exactly what was wrong, so i didnt wanna ride 3rd and cause more problems....as far as the countershaft tooth, that didnt cause any abnormalities at all...since it would've been noticeable on all other gears (countershaft gear engages to differential at all times) ...so i would've heard something

NAiL05

Nice. I see you are still running the SPEC clutch.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

first of all, kudo's for doing the job without the help of a lift opel

i am all to familiar with this and have gone through my share of countershafts and gear sets. its funny, cause every tranny i have went through, it also never happened while banging through the gears or WOTing, but always while driving/shifting normally...

i usually rebuild mine and use what parts i can use from my previous transmissions, but this last one i went through (2 months ago) i wasnt able to, so i had to go with another used one =/

heres a pic of my last failure, looks just like yours xD


ive lost count, but this trans might be the 7th one in 4 years that has broke/failed.. this is the weaklink, which most of the newly turbo guys will find out soon once they get sick of having ZERO traction and install some grippy tires. ...

NAiL05

I wonder if cryo treating the shaft and gears would help. Might have to do that on my next tear down.

onefastmachine

iTrader: (1)

I had the same problem but mine was still under warranty..So i got lucky

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Opel. Nice to know it can be done without a lift because I am sure I will be doing this for both the tranny and the clutch.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Have you had failures that left you stranded?

Opel

yes, and i didnt even open it up to see where it was at...i didnt wanna find out just yet...wasn't ready to shell $1500, but maybe next summer, who knows.

i wish i had a lift and air tools, and things would be different lol...yes ur right about the additional power and grippy tires. It is whats going to cause a lot of tranny probs for anyone....id rather let mine spin...problem is, up at highter speeds, grip or no grip, the additional turbo power is going to put a big strain on the tranny regardless. I just bought some synchromesh and will change the fluid soon. right now i just dumped some motor oil to get it running for a few days.
I wanna get my hands on a spare used tranny and see what i can do with it...some treatement, some new gear cuts..idk but ill see

Opel

i dont wanna answer for him. but it would have to be catastrophic to not be able to move the car...a broken gear, u can still get the car to drive through other gears...if theres so much damage that broken stuff prevents you from shifting at all, then thats a whole diff prob...or if the countershaft completely strips, or the differential teeth strip badly. any synchros gone bad, you can still use other gears.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

DAmn bro. Sucks this happened but good that you got thru this.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Also, whats the story on the new steering rack? lol

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

We built a 800 HP R32 recently and one of the issues we had seen in previous VR6 trannies was similar to the one you have here Opel. We cryo-treated the gears in this latest build and so far so good.

And as 04accordcpe said, props to you for doing this without a lift, and for taking on the job as a whole. I wouldn't touch anything without a lift anymore. Of course I have 4 lifts now in my shop but I don't think I would ever work without one again.

Opel

the new steering rack is great, stiff as it should be. the old one got so bad, it made my suspension feel like shit lol...im gonna try and hack up the pressure switch and possibly reduce pressure at highway speeds more than it already does...some voltage alternations..will see...for now, i gotta dump the syncromesh in, change an upper ball joint, get an alignment, 2 new front tires, and push it through till next spring lol

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

actually my very first failure with my stock 6spd tranny left me stranded. i chewed everything up, countershaft, 1st through 4th gear sets and about 6 teeth on the final drive gear. even in neutral, the car could not roll and had to be dragged up the flatbed.. luckily i was 1/2 mile away from the shop i go to

besides that incident, the car was drivable.... like opel, i just had to skip shift the gears that were making noise, but its something you dont want to drive on for a long period of time, cause it can lock up on you.

tenzingsherpa

YEAH!!!! DO IT cryo treatment, and stronger syncro's FTMFW!!!

also fyi, i had a 3rd gear synco problem when i had my tl 6-speed swap.

NAiL05

Yep I see a lot of people cryo treat. Its a great investment and pretty cheap. You just gotta make sure the person you take it to knows what type of material and what they are doing to get the full effect. I usually do this on lexus auto trans when they start running power...it needs it bad.

Richie v6

Now I know what to do if my tranny starts acting funny. Good thing I have a rebuilt tranny sitting on the shelf. I don't feel like taking it apart. Does anyone know if they can just cyro treat the whole thing assembled.

NAiL05

You can but you only get the casing. They charge by weight also. You still have to take it apart. Just make sure you keep everything in order you should be good. Manual trans are easy.

HQTL6SPD

Bro you are nuts! lol But let me know when ur gonna take this on

Opel

i meant the flow control valve...lol...i completely confused it...FLOW CONTROL VALVE...not psps...i have a spare PS pump somewhere, and will take it apart, and take a look

Opel

like nail said...best thing to do is take it apart...at least the 2 shafts, even fully assembled...the mainshaft and the countershaft, and the differential...heck the reverse gear too...those are the ones that you want treated

Opel

thats a lot of fucking power man lol...i thought about treatment, but honestly, i wasn't all up for the downtime...it would've took a while...but maybe next time. Until then, im gonna try and drive on less grippy tires lol

Richie v6

Maybe over the winter, I am not too worried with my 231WHP If bmeyers closed loop project works out...........

Majofo

Glad you got it resolved Opel.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Looking at these pictures again, it reminds me of my dirt bike days when we tore down our engines on a regular basis. Glad to see a manual tranny is still fairly simple.

Opel

thank you sir

it reminds me of all the vcr's and stereos i busted open to steal the little gears and motors and make little cars when i was 9-10 lol

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Yea that car is a beast. It was making 500 awhp before on a custom turbo kit my mechanic built at his previous shop. We built the motor and it should make about 650 awhp now. We're just waiting for the motor to fully break in.

Yes, cryo treatment takes a while. By the time you ship the parts, let them sit in a tank, ship them back, etc you would probably wait 4 weeks or so.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Josh, do you have a source for cryo treating?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Opel, does Tremec make a tranny for our cars?!?!
Stop driving this precision machine like an American muscle car!!!

OH...and, you should consider doing the slave cylinder checkvalve removal. It makes shifting a lot smoother

On a serious note, thanks for sharing...and ps...your mechanical skill is up there...I'd be intimidated by this type of repair. Big time.

Majofo

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

almost 3200 posts and he doesn't know the OP is the thread starter of the slave mod.

Majofo

RS has half the posts in that thread.. he must be high.

Opel

i think he was just being sarcastic...either that, or ive been inactive enough to be forgotten lol