Wow time flies by.
Garage is together, most everything is in the new house.
Left off with the crank and pistons installed. Got the oil pump, water pump and rear cover on the engine. Should be able to check valve clearance in the next couple days.

 

I wondered when you were going to do an update. Glad to see your back on it.

 

Don't forget to weld the wastegates shut before installing them!

 

Made a lot of progress recently. Hoping to have it in the subframe within a week or two. Going to order a new clutch so that might slow things down a little.

 

those heads look

eager to see more progress Kurt!

 

Very nice man!

You just happen to use the same brand of tape I use for all my engine builds HAHA

Are the heads machined or rebuilt? Just asking because I noticed the cam journals have some light scuffing in the lower region on more than one of them. Also, why are you running j30 heads?....just curious.

 

Looking good, just in time for some summer fun

 

J30 heads have smaller combustion chamber 86mm vs 89mm. He will get a bump in compression ratio.

 

I know that! Lol.

Maybe I missed something but isn't he running boost on this motor or did the build become NA somewhere along the story?

 

These are heads that I had picked up where the valves were recently machined. I did notice the scuffs and they appear to be just discolored and I couldn't feel any gouging.

And yes, I am boosted.

So I should ask....how much do you estimate I lose with these heads?

 

It's really more of a question of what you would GAIN in regards to compression ratio. Lol.

But yeah, you would definitely be limited in the amount of boost you would be allowed before encountering a knock threshold. Not to mention the smaller chamber diameter (86mm) opposed to the bore diameter (89mm) creating a poor environment for the combustion process itself. Think about that 1.5mm lip hanging over the edge on both sides.

I'd first confirm that the heads actually have an 86mm chamber because though I'm sure they do, I've never messed with the j30 heads. But I have measured j30a heads from a 6g Accord and they had the 86mm chambers so that's why I feel its safe to assume these do too.

 

oh it sucks not knowing all this stuff ahead of time....

Off to look for another set of heads....if I don't do it right I will regret it in the end.....

 

Sell those in the BM and buy another set. I have a pair of used j35a8 heads (no cams) if you need a pair for the build.

 

I sent you an email...

 

Replied

 

Trust me they do have 86mm combustion. I fucked up my compression ratio in my j30a5 build instead of gaining 0.3. I lost 0.3 and am at 9.6x to 1. So time for me to look into boosting

 

Do j35a8 heads have the correct exhaust flange to fit the turbo manifolds you have ?? not all single port heads have the same flange

 

^ j30a4/5,j32a3, and j35a8 all have the same exhaust ports.

 

KN_TL .................... whats your price on those heads if you sell... what would it come with.... are they j32 heads

 

I think he has a j32 and those heads are for a j30 as Robert said.

 

Yup...checked yesterday, 86mm combustion chamber. Hopefully Robert will answer me soon but in the meantime I am searching like crazy.

 

located a pair of 2008 type-s heads and ordered new clutch.

Will be listing a tilton twin disc with very low miles soon.

 

What clutch did you decide on?

 

I'm following gerzand's lead and bought a SPEC 3+ and matching flywheel.

 

Im bored so a quick reply...
Quicker engine acceleration (revving) increases timing belt stress as the belt has to accelerate the cams but most turbo engines aren't known for their super crisp throttle response. Using a lightweight flywheel and/or pulley would necessitate a stronger timing belt if this were significant.

Power has no effect on timing belt stress. The bottom end handles the stresses of additional power. The belt is totally unaware whether it's making 100hp or 1,000hp. The exhaust valves open toward the end of the power stroke when most of the energy should be spent assuming timing is not too retarded. Additionally you have boost pressure trying to help open the intake valves. Boost actually reduces timing belt stress. This is why high boost turbo engines tend to float valves easier and sometimes require stiffer springs. The additional back pressure on the backside of exhaust valves doesn't hurt either.

High rpm is usually a non factor. Most valvetrains require less power to spin at high rpm than low rpm. We used to have a setup used to break in cams before the engine was fired. The valvetrain is fully assembled and is spun with an electric motor at various rpm. Current draw was consistently less at 3,500rpm than at 500 rpm. I believe Google would agree in most cases.

The most stress your timing belt will ever see is revving in neutral because the engine will never accelerate as quickly in gear.

In theory, sure, squirters can allow more boost due to piston cooling. In practice it's not measurable if it's there at all. Squirters can be beneficial for piston reliability during extended full throttle runs but not for power.

Detonation or worse, preigniton does not occur from a piston being hot. It's from hot spots, something that's hot enough to ignite the air/fuel in the combustion chamber which is higher than the melting point of aluminum. If the piston is hot enough to cause detonation you have much bigger problems like rebuilding the engine. On the flip side a cooler piston means lower thermal efficiency. Will the lower thermal efficiency ever make a dent in power in real life? Nope, just like a not jetted and 10F hotter piston will never cost power because they have zero effect on detonation threshold. Spraying 250F oil on a 400F piston does little compared to its main cooling, the 50F air and fuel on the intake stroke but it's good insurance to ensure reliability on extended full throttle operation.

Let's not forget that the factory does things for weird reasons. It's not abnormal to have squirters spray one of the hottest parts of the engine to help warm the oil up quicker in many low hp applications such as these cars. Getting the oil up to temp as quickly as possible is one of the most important factors for long engine life. If the factory uses a low mass piston, squirters become more important as well.

So basically, the timing belt has no idea how much power the engine is making and boost reduces stress on the belt.

Piston squirters do not increase detonation threshold in practice but they're never a bad idea and to be most effective a good oil cooler should be run with a thermostat to keep oil around 200F.

 

Well.....I have the upgraded belt and a tensioner brace. I'm not sure why you even bother.

 

I guess I look at that a bit different - you have a LOT of time and money in your setup. How much extra was the heavy duty belt? Even if it was $100 more, is that not worth the peace of mind in the grand scheme of it all? If you ran a stock timing belt and then it snapped on a WOT pull, wouldn't you be pretty pissed wondering if the heavy duty belt would have prevented it?

I'm inclined to think there are far more people that want that peace of mind than don't, considering the availability of the heavy duty timing belt.

To be honest, he bothers because he can't stand to let Robert have the last word on anything. Some kind of personal obsession...

 

I'm always in for learning something new or a different point of view thanks IHC, don't hate people

 

And you guys say I'm the one who makes it personal. That's funny.

I saw a post directed at me and answered it factually and with no personal attacks. I guess that's too much for this clique to handle. Regardless Robert is dead wrong about what causes additional stress on a belt, this is not my opinion against his, it's established facts against his. I know you guys don't like facts if it goes against one of you.

 

Maybe you're unhappy because I could not dedicate the time to help you when you first began emailing me. I had just started a new position at work and at the same time began moving into a new house so I apologize for that.

Why I bother is in the interest of keeping this factual and accurate when possible. Normally I would say why not go with the stronger belt for peace of mind. However, the factory belt is known for its reliability with millions of Hondas running basically the same belt for 100,000+ miles with a very low failure rate. These stronger belts are not proven over high mileage. Since your belt will have less stress on it while under boost than stock and you know stock is very reliable while you don't know how the "stronger" belt will hold up over time. So you're not gaining peace of mind with the stronger belt as it would seem on the surface, you're taking a gamble. That's my view. You're taking very one dimensional advice that does not capture the big picture most of the time and operates on unproven theories but that's your choice.

 

Yes sir, keep it going

 

Though nobody can prove which one broke first, the tensioner or the belt, this boosted j-series would have most DEFINITELY benefitted from that really unnecessary, expensive blue timing belt and redesigned, stronger tensioner:


Just saying...

Nothing beats peace of mind when you're driving a car that's been completely re-engineered for a purpose that in no manner reflects its original intent. Can't tell you how many times I've been driving my car and thought to myself: I'm sure glad I didn't settle on just any parts when building this beast. And not just parts either. Also, the quality and attention to details I invested into her that give me ACTUAL comfort in using it as a daily driver. Being able to truly enjoy the experience is only brought by the phrase above: "peace of mind".

IHC's is a swell guy and if it weren't for his obnoxious, distasteful personality, why we would be BFFs!!!

 

That sucks, is this your engine?

I would bet the tensioner bolt broke first, however I want to see a picture of the belt break, that would be helpful. The edges of the portion of belt shown in the picture looked frayed. I don't care if you had a super fancy timing belt if your tensioner falls off your going to have a bad day. Either way a nice blue timing belt from Gates is good insurance due to it's strength and heat resistance.

 

I researched that Blue belt before and saw lots of failures posted online of the material seperating.

I agree with the oem is safer bet.

 

No it's not my motor. And this is the only photo I have of the damage.

This motor is now said to be at 40lbs+ of boost and making xxxx digit numbers on the dyno.

FYI, Gates is the oem manufacturer for Honda/Acura. Both belts are made by Gates.

 

Sweet baby jesus, I had a sneaking suspicion since it looked like it had a dry sump oil pump. Who's motor is that?

I bet that's from not tensioning them correctly on the B-series or poor handling of the belt. I've done both timing belt changes on the TL and GSR and I didn't like how the tension is set on the B-series, to much room for install error. I think the hydraulic tensioner on the J is a much better set-up.

Sorry for continuing off topic posts on your thread KN.

 

I thought it was mitsubishi? It didn't say gates on mine when I ordered a set of OEM timing belt kit for my dad MDX

 

I thought he said it was the bolt for the tensioner?

 

Back at it again. Lapped valves on the heads I picked up and got them installed.

Need to drill a few holes in the floor to use one leg of my lift as a hoist and I drop it on the subframe next.

Hopefully things will move along more quickly now that most of the household things are done.

 

^agree, I believe so. Look at how the belt is lying, if it was split then the front (side with the tensioner still attached) would be lying outwards, not thrown over towards the other belt.

This is why new bolts should be used on high HP builds every time. Most bolts used are custom for honda, so newer hardware on a XXXX HP motor should have been used in the first place, even if it was a 400+HP car, I still wouldn't use the old bolts!