ttliang

OK few members are asking for tq spec and stuff now so here you go (opened my big mouth lol). i hope these don't scare you. it's not that hard. just have to be careful. service manual asks to replace all stock gaskets everytime you remove/install....guess what? ha ha...

I can feel the difference now (better late than never ha). driving on the highway in high gears. lil tapping on gas you get this peppy ez feeling. WOT car goes crazy anyway. maybe dyno can tell but who knows. i feel better now for my $100. at least i felt somethin' lol.

blktl1

YUp the higher gears pull harder now and it just feels more responsive!

ttliang

we have 6mt..direct gear contact. how the heck would a 5AT feel this subtle feeling thru the tq converter?? maybe they do i don't know. care to share 5AT people?

sorry about hurting ur sales commission. j/k. ;-)

blktl1

Yeah I wish I got money for this. i am just trying to help you guys get off the fence on the decision on what mods to do.

againstallodds1

I have the 5AT and all I noticed is quicker throttle responce. I did it around the same time as when I got the NRG voltage reg installed. I dont think I gained any hp but maybe 2-3 lbs of torque.

ttliang

i am liking this more and more. great response. plus you can wax you car hood soon as you done driving. it's that cold. i think i am really gonna notice the diff. when summer comes.

Nitrotiger

keep me informed on this one

varanelli

Very slight improvement in throttle response on my 5AT. What do you want for $100?

The installation was pretty straightforward. The hardest part was removing and replacing all the hoses/electrical connections, especially those to the throttle body.

againstallodds1

Ill agree with you on the two hoses on the bottom of the throttle body, they were a little pain in the ass. Make sure you connect everything back up when you finish. I left the traction control sensor un done and it drove me nuts, because I wasnt getting any power and a check engine light was on. I hooked it back up and reset the battery and everything was good from there.

varanelli

I did not replace the stock gaskets, as Honda/Acura recommends. Did anyone do that?

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Did anyone disconnect their battery after install to reset the ecu? Maybe that would make more of a difference.

becker800

The battery is disconnected during install

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

ooo yeh, you are unhooking electrical devices ...well I guess if you install it all together then you might feel a difference like CAI, spacers and procats or exhaust. Either way, seems better spending 100 on this than 100 on some lights

becker800

Yeah, I am not expecting much on a $100 purchase, it sure isn't going to hurt the engine

SparkAF

The Thermoblock Spacers arrived today. I was wondering if anyone used either a gasket remover spray or adhesive/gasket sealant during the removal/installtion?

varanelli

I did not use either.

SparkAF

Did anyone do the racing application, that's where you use the barbed splice fitting supplied by Outlaw Engineering and attach it to the two coolant lines at the bottom of the throttle body?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

i would only do this in warmer climates. i see you are in FL so you are probably safe to bypass the TB coolant.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Again...I live in Indiana...cold winters....have both Outlaw Spacer kit, CAI, and optional coolant mod....what adverse effects should I be seeing or looking for? Everything seem great to me....but maybe I am missing something? They didnt mention anything about cold climates that I remember in the instructions....?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

i just know that condensation can build on the TB and cause freezing in colder climates. that's why outlaw considers it a "race option" but if you have been running like this then all the power to you.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Ah....I will keep my eye out for this condition/condensation! Ya...not noticed anything yet...and drive highway all the time? I will have to watch out for this now that I am running CAI w/ Outlaw, ect as it does keep the top end way cooler!

ttliang

this POS was killing my car. lost all my low end tq. felt miserable for about 3 weeks. i just tossed it out and i'm happy. car is pulling hard again. i heard similar comments online. sorry guys..not for TL.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Maybe it depends on what you have going now? Did you reset the ECU when you installed em? I have no probs whatsoever and only noticed more low end response, way less lag (almost removed all drive by wire lag) and no loss of power?

scmorgan

ttliang: On the contrary, we have received only good reports from many, many TL owners. Your report of lost performance is an indicator that something was not correct in the installation. It is much more likely that either a vacuum line problem, gasket leak or other issue was the real culprit of any lost performance.

We have sold scores of the Acura/Honda J-Series V6 kits with many pleased owners. We even run them on our Honda Odyssey parts-getter for the past 3 years with no issues.

ttliang

basically i put everything back w/o outlaw and the car is happy again using the same gaskets. beats me. it drives much faster & nimble last night & today with every gears. i have 6mt so the throttle response is very noticible.

i believe if it's vacuum leak the CEL will come. it's not the case. how can i discribe that??.....the car was growling deep but not moving as fast. you know....it's almost like turbo lag for that first few seconds. now w/o the outlaw, i step on it a little bit and it goes. like i said, beats me.

gqchicago

Hmm....I was thinking about this as a future mod but now I'm wondering..

StYLeZz101

has anyone else had problems with this mod..i have it sitting in my trunk..i was planning to do it but i have become somewhat hesitant...i've seen other people say that its not really worth it...but its not compared to those who say it is...

ttliang

first of all, i'm not out to get outlaw or whatnot. i hope they do well.

you don't have to believe me but there's got to be an intake operating temperature for ECU to reference. usually the intake is hot being in the engine bay and all. when the outlaw is in. the intake is super cool all the time even after long time running. the IAT (intake air temp) sensor will read a number to ECU like you were sucking in arctic air or something. i am sure the ECU will provide fuel (however it's programmed) like you are in the north pole (but you are not). that can't be good. IMO.

just my logical thinking. i could be totally wrong. anyway my car drives faster now.

againstallodds1

I did the same thing this morning as ttliang did and I now have a faster car. It started last night when I went on another post and complained how my car got slower at the track. I pulled off the outlaw and seen how my throttle body came off. Two of the nuts were really loose and the bolts were about hand tight. After a week of installation I did retorque them down so I know I tightened them. All I am saying that I took them off the car and the car has vtec again "noticable". And she pulls from the start. Ttliang says he pulled them off and his car is running like a champ, I pulled them off and my car is much faster. Chances are they are garbage for the TL. JMHO maybe im wrong about other TL's, but with mine she didnt like them

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like the bolts were loose? This would cause a definate loss of power wouldnt it? And if they were bad...why would comptech include a similar spacer in the supercharger kit? (I seem to remember BklynPanMan mentioning that they had a manifold spacer in the kit?)

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

sounds like an install problem. IAT will read what the temps physically are, the spacers cannot 'fool' the ecu to think it's colder, it actually is colder. not sure, but i'd say this is an install issue. leave the throttle body spacer out, and just leave the one for the intake manifold. see what happens.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Thats what I was wondering...but didnt want to question their skills or anything? I am sure they got em on right? I had mine installed...and trust me...if I had been bringing total BS into Joe Demaree to install...he would have let me know. I asked him about outlaw (while he had never heard of em...and ya...they are here in Indy too.....he said Thermoblok spacers are good technology and work good for the most part?) He did state that he does not like the cheezy "hardware store quality" bolts that come with a lot of the kits....and usually switches them out to OEM type bolts...other than that...this is all he said? I did not see the bolts to the kit nor the bolts he installed...so I dont know if he switched these out or not. Maybe they are these type of bolts and they are rattling loose for some reason? As I said...he installed mine and it has been working flawlessly ever since? I noticed nothing but a power increase? And my IAT sensor is on the intake tube too.

BTW...before Joe Demaree was a racer....he worked for GM and Acura both as mechanics and service managers....and now specializes on Honda/Acura in both service and repair and professional racing.

roybiggens

I don't think the air temp could be the problem. If so, then all the guys with AEM CAI's that have done the IAT modification would be having trouble.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

i'm not really questioning their skills, it happens to everyone. if the car is acting strangley, i try to go over my install, and if possible, uninstall and reinstall.

gqchicago

In the marine community it's an accepted fact of life that everything shakes and works itself loose over time, since boats take such a beating (much more so) compared to cars. We regularly go over all parts of our engines, rigging, hardware, what not, since stuff works itself loose seemingly all the time. Even on my old reliable diesel it happens regularly, once a month I go over (and usually find something to tighten) the whole thing.

Not saying you should have to do this on a car necessarily, but I will be checking my CT RSB bolts periodically just to make sure all is well, and would do so for anything else I bolt on to my car.

I really do wonder if it's since it was loose that you guys were experience problems. It would sure be interesting to bolt it all back on and see if you then experience any of the gains again.

MB is there any way you can call your guy there in Indy and ask him if he kept or replaced the kit bolts? Then we'd know for sure...

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

OK...I just talked with Demaree Automotive / Super Street Concepts about the outlaw problem some are experiencing. What they said was this....

For the most part....they dont use thermoblok spacers as the gain is really minimal and not worth it for the most part...but that the technology is solid, but again...results in minimal actual gains per dollar spent. He said they do not use them on their own cars for this reason. They do install them on customer vehicles when asked and have had several customers come in with problems after they have installed thermoblok spacers and this is what they found. Symptoms....irratic torque range....loss of power. Cause in most of the cases was an install issue. He states that it is very important getting the gaskets lined up balls on accurate and using the proper torque sequence or there WILL be some leaks that will result in loss of / irratic torque and loss of power. If this is not done correctly....there is a good chance that there will be a leak somewhere in the system.

What I am wondering is this....are all the people with problems happen to also be "self install" on this mod too? This is one that I got done by somebody else as I was in there anyway at the time....so I may have lucked out here....cause I would prob have a problem too then! As of current...mine is working just fine with no sympomatic loss of torque? This information came from the above/below mentioned shop....

Demaree Automotive
Zionsille, IN
Name: Joe Demaree
Class: Hot Rod
Team: SSC Racing
Hometown: Zionsville, Ind.
Birthdate: Aug. 9, 1965
Car: 1993 Honda Civic Hatchback
Engine: 1998 B18C1 Integra GSR, single turbo
Crew chief:Keith Royer
Sponsors: SSC, Unorthodox Racing, DPR Racing, Demaree Auto, Color Concepts, Rooman Fabrications, Precision Turbo, Rev Hard, Calico Coatings, Oliver Rods, NGK, Ferrea Valves, Microlon, Moroso, ERL, Wiseco, Impact Racing, Dunlop, WeldBest e.t.: 8.66Best speed: 168.58 mph
Website:http:www.ssc-das.com
Career highlights:
2003 season attended 15 national events and went to 7 finals
Fastest Hot Rod Car on Gas
Fastest FWD in the Midwest
1986 NHRA Div. 3 Track Rookie of the Year
2000 Indy Truck Bash & Import Drags No. 1 qualifier, runner-up finish
2001 Indy Truck Bash & Import Drags No. 1 qualifier and Hot Rod winner
2001 Battle of the Imports, Joliet, Ill., No. 2 qualifier
2001 NIRA race Englishtown, N.J., No. 5 qualifier



This info came from Keith Royer, their crew chief on 3/17/06. I would think they know what they are talking about here? And I would also think that they would not have installed this on my car regardless if it was not a good thing...thats for sure!

Final question....people with power loss sympotms with Outlaw Thermoblok spacers......did you do a self install? and also...did you use the supplied bolts?(maybe they are rattling loose?) Not saying we are at the bottom of this problem...but here is a performance shop that has seen this issue several times and stated that it is more likely than not...an install problem of some sort...because all our described symptoms lead to some type of a leak.

Some of you racing people may remember seeing that white car wrecked at Englishtown!



One of the finest people in all of racing is SSC Racing’s Joe Demaree. The NDRA has always appreciated and admired Joe and wife Becky’s persistence, sportsmanship and competitiveness and this past weekend was a perfect example. Their professionalism and kindness touches fans and fellow racers alike everywhere they race. A great feeling of celebration filled the awards ceremony as Joe claimed his second NDRA victory in the Venom - Honda Tuning Pro 4 Cylinder class. It was great seeing Joe on the podium after watching him struggle to qualify in the tropical heat of Bradenton Motorsports Park.
Joe Demaree and his crew chief Keith Royer started the weekend having to make adjustments to the car after suffering a crash when a competitor at Englishtown crossed over into Joe’s lane at the finish line. Joe’s SSC Civic needed a new front end and it arrived just in time for the team to leave the Super Street Concepts Shop in Zionsville, IN shop. The fabrication changes required and suspension issues prevented them from making the first or second round of qualifying in the ten car field. Every time we checked on the SSC team they were still working to get the car ready for Sunday’s final round of qualifying at 10:30 AM. As important as making the field is to any driver, Joe put things on hold to make the NDRA’s Sunday morning worship service which ran a few minutes over as it seemed Joe’s racing luck had stayed in a cooler climate.
Joe jumped on his qualifying attempt running 10.12 at 142.02, putting him solidly in the fourth position. In the first round of eliminations he improved the Pro 4 Cylinder SSC Civic to 9.86 @ 147.88 MPH getting by Thang Lanmgam. The second round put him in against number one qualifier Lance HoLung of HP Racing where a mechanical problem prematurely determined the results with the SSC Civic charging to take the win with a 10.01 at 135.13 MPH. In the finals Joe found himself facing his friend and team mate Carey Bales who had emerged from the other side of the elimination ladder. In the final elimination Super Street Concepts Racing Team really represented their sponsors, DPR Cylinder Heads, Unorthodox Racing, Super Street Concepts, Progress Technol, Color Concepts, Demaree Automotive Services and Precision Turbo in a positive and professional way. Joe Demaree dominated the finals running a 9.79 @ 144.20 MPH to Carey Bales 10.28 @ 127.73. A perfect ending to a perfect day. Joe, Becky and the Super Street Concepts Race Team always have faith they will get where they want to be. That day the Winners circle was along their way.

Joe is now second in NDRA X Box Cup championship points standings in the Venom - Honda Tuning Pro 4 Cylinder class.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I will check next week. I just got off the phone monopolizing their time for about 45 minutes of so "jawing" to get this infomation below...so I dont want to ruin our good source of info here by "Bogarting" all his time! You are right though...good question...maybe its the bolts that are rattling loose?

bluenoise

I asked about this in another thread, but I didn't get an answer yet. I'm wondering how much gain could one reasonably expect from this mod or the other mod that lowers throttle body temperature. I understand the concept of colder air being more dense, so more air-fuel mixture can go in the cylinders, etc. But what kind of air temperature drop are we talking about here? If the air coming out of the air filter is 75 degrees and it goes through a 130 degree throttle body for a handful of milliseconds, what is the air temperature going into the intake manifold compared to going through a throttle body at 90 degrees? Can anyone really expect a measurable gain in HP and/or torque?

I'm not trying to be a jerk with this as I am genuinely curious about this. I'm wondering why the manufacturer wouldn't take steps to keep the throttle body cooler if the gains were really worthwhile.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Interesting point....kind of gets at what SSC Racing / Demaree was saying...they dont use them personally as there is little HP and Torque gain to be acheived through this...not that it isnt good...just that you really not gonna get a noticable gain / gains will be very small.

bluenoise

Yeah, I didn't see your post until I after I posted mine. In any case, it seems to me that any gains folks are noticing are either imaginary or caused by something other than reduced air temperature. Maybe the longer straight run after the throttle body is allowing a slightly less turbulent air flow and that's giving a little boost. Who knows, but I can't imagine that changing the IAT by a degree or two is going to result in anything measureable, let alone perceived.