I hate cars

I went through that with several LS1s. The only way to get the sleeves out was to bore them out. Literally make about 7 passes with the machine until the sleeve was machined away. Not cheap and pretty time consuming.

Do any Acura products that you know of use the Nikasil (sp)coated aluminum bores like Porsche uses?

phee

iTrader: (5)

you guys a right. changing the rl pistons increases the compression and not the displacement.

but i know that nva-av6 has made 3.7's out of the 3.2 block. it can be done. i just dont think i fuly understand how

tenzingsherpa

yup^^^ i do agree with phee saying that paul has made a j37 with a j32 block. i was planning on the j37 block but decided on the j36 because the j37 is limited to about 10psi with FI reliably. while the j36 is able to push a little more psi, reliably. i know about 6 members on v6net that have j36s running a j32 block, and i believe he is working on the j37 as we speak.

indecisivefool

funny if the j37 in a j32 block is limited to 10psi I would go
with that
#1 The stock rod wont hold more then 12psi
#2 there is now pully over 12psi

So if paul says j37 can hold 10psi then do it

phee

iTrader: (5)

^ u can have a custom pulley made. but then the blower will be out of its efficiency range.

thats where the mp90 retrofits come in.

indecisivefool

ok let me clear up some stuff for you guys

The j32a has a 86mm crank(stroke) and a 89mm bore which is a 3.2l
the J35 has a 93mm crank and a 89mm bore which is a 3.5l
the j37 has a 96mm crank with a 90mm bore which is a 3.7l

As you can see only 3mm differents between the j35 crank and the j37 one but the bore is bigger.
____________

I think that once we have a good ecu for tunning thats cheap in price ,these motors will see 320-350whp all motor
me and sean(p2r) have been talking about a stage1 Cam but the jseries head limit us on lift so....

my set-up this seson was
STOCK 3.2l with 130k miles
Port+polish heads (AsianImports spec)$2250
Custom Header
Custom exhaust (AsianImports spec)
CM stage3
intake+ pullys
dyno 287whp
13.3@105 ALL MOTOR in a CL body with FULL Interior

bottom line guys is the j32 can make good power theres just not enough R+D going into these motors yet. (paul is not the only one that has built 3.5 and 3.7)

ps. I know someone with a J32a 3.9L stock 90mm bore.......stock honda crank

indecisivefool

ohh well i didnt know Iam not a big fan of superchargers but...... they do make power.

I've seen alot about Paul's mp90 (on the forums) but not one running I just wonder how reliable it will be and the most important think is how FAST will it be. I know paul will do his best making this reliable. cant wait to see the finally out come. his R+d Helps the Jseries commnity

tenzingsherpa

U CAN SAY ^^^^ THAT AGAIN!!! thumbs up for paul's innovation. I Hereby give paul the nobel piece prize for J-Series Innovation, and Development

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Just got done driving the car around after a long day of tinkering around haha

I was all ready to install the mani and intake runners today until i realized that because of the guide pins which help hold the runners in place, you cannot remove them from the heads without removing the heads themselves. There just simply isnt enough clearance to slip them out. I confirmed this my looking at some diagrams the service manual as well.


Oh well, moving on....

I did go ahead and install the PnP'd intake manifold though. I transferred over all of the sensors/electronics as well as the bored TB and 1'' custom made TB spacer from my original to the new "junkyard" PnP'd mani. Also installed some new P2R thermal gaskets on the mani and TB and dremeled them out a bit to fit the new TB/Mani port sizes.

Noticed some top end gains past the 5k range.

Pics below...

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

looks good bro!

I hate cars

That's good info on the bore and stroke of the various engines.

I'm not sure why Honda went with the undersquare engine in the J35 and J37 other than emissions. From a performance standpoint the J32 looks real nice.

With the longer stroke comes higher piston speeds at a given rpm. You could theoretically spin the J32 higher on stockish parts all else being equal. Again, all else being equal, a 3.2L is going to make more power at 8,000rpm than a 3.5L will limited to 6,800rpm NA.

If you're going the turbo route, making the power isn't the problem, it's how streetable do you want it to be. Even with the same hp goals, I would prefer the larger engine. Turbo lag will be less and drivability will be better.

To clarify one thing, you can't say certain parts are limited to a certain psi of boost. They're limited by hp. So stock rods may be limited to 12psi on a stock top end. Port the heads and do other mods where you make the same power at 7psi, you're now limited to 7psi.

You guys haven't begun to tap into the hp potential of the J32. I've seen the stock head flow numbers. All you need is to lower to compression to the neighborhood of 9:1 and throw 20psi on top of it and you will make more power than the stock bottom will ever hold. If the bottom would take it, you're looking at 700whp at 20psi with no other mods.

Opel

Agreed!
Which is why Ive never bothered with any of the deep NA mods..
Only thing that I changed as you know, is lowered CR with forged pistons.

Pretty much its boost-ready.

IMO, (and not to discourage anyone) doing this deep NA stuff to get 300-350 WHP, which would pretty much require a FULL REBUILD, isn't worth it.
As cool as it would be to have the J32 with those numbers on NA setup, I personally would pretty much get used to it quick enough, to the point where
it would seem like stock all over again, and Ill want more.
The only way from there on would be boost, if you didn't jump the CR too high. That could've just been done to begin with, and pretty much reach the motor's limits with boost alone, rather than shelling out twice the amount of money for the same thing.

A full race motor could be build and top over 400 whp, but it will just turn into a weekend track car.

I completely agree with IHC, the way to go, for any of the motors, whether you have J32, J35 or whatever it may be...I'd leave them alone, and just change pistons to lower CR and have them forged. Rods if it makes you feel better, even though they're forged. ARP head bolts (they dont specifically make them for the J series, but can be special ordered) ARP rod cap bolts.
From there on, you just boost the living crap out of it, and you'll see wonders with numbers.

Bottom line is...
1-If you really wanna make big numbers, Turbo is the way, with little motor upgrades.
2-If you wanna make big numbers in NA form, be prepared to give up the car's streetability.
3-If, you wanna make big numbers by combining a full rebuild and boost after, you'd be looking at around $12,000 in parts alone (Labor would be 2 more arms and 2 more legs if you don't do it yourself), and this route lacks what #1 would give you, "reliability". To add more to it, its still gonna be a weekend track car. Not mentioning all the time you'd be paying for tuning.

So, power can be made, and I really aim at #1, which for about $6000, you can have more power than you'll need. So, why not invest the rest towards a beefed up tranny? Because honestly, No matter which way you go, or how you pick on making those big numbers, your tranny isn't up for the task, unless you plan on running on bicycle tires.

Just a few ideas

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

nice read from post at 3:19and 5:18 in the morning which is really 4:19 and 6:19. how do you guys have enough energy to put so much thought into this at that time? lol

opel with your lowered cr, how much boost are you running off the s/c?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

You guys are off the chain. haha.

ABP_04TL

iTrader: (2)

damn interesting... ill keep readin as ya keep typing lol

HQTL6SPD

this is all very good info!

Opel

lol, i posted that? i came home this morning, drunk...holy christ, i cant believe i wrote a post lol...

Im currently running only 6.5 psi. Awaiting few more upgrades to run 9 psi.

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

lol was that ur car parked in front of Pita Pan??? im always in astoria and see it all the time.

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

this thread reall makes me want to save up for that turbo.. lol

ABP_04TL

iTrader: (2)

6Gs, wheffffff

Opel

Not that I know of, besides K20 found in RSX's (also found in many hondas)
I think a few honda motors use .5mm coating on top of FRM
h22/h23, f20.

Porsche's been using it since the 70s
BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes use this too...also found in bikes.

Its a pretty cool thing used on cylinder liners. One thing is, if you ever upgrade pistons to forged and such, you should prob get Nikasil friendly rings.

Opel

lmao, can you tell my front bumper needs to get painted? yes, it was parked there till about 12:30 shhhhhhhhh

I hate cars

Ummm, it comes with EVERYTHING you need minus the exhaust. People had no problem with the half ass supercharger for $4,500 that blew engines left and right that you had to buy precat deletes or procats, j-pipe, methanol injection for safetly, and injectors and fuel pump to do it properly, all of which is included in the turbo kit.

Let's see, a half ass "kit" for $4,500 that will blow the engine that you still have to finish buying all the extras for that will get you 280-320whp or a turbo kit that includes everything for $6,000 that makes 420whp and is reliable in comparison to the supercharger.

This is not a supercharger vs turbocharger debate, it's the so called kit that came with the Comptech blower that made it unreliable.

I hate cars

Opel posts as good drunk as he does sober. Me on the other hand, I've woken up the next morning and was afraid to see what I had written. I had more family issues last night so it was a sober night for me. Tired as hell though. I didn't remember posting in here.

ABP_04TL

iTrader: (2)

woop di do... so let me guess u gonna b one with the kit? if it was up to me i wouldnt even bother puttin a Turbo on a TL, if i wanted a turboed car, ill get me a audi rs4 or sumthin else and work on that... so im my book i stick to Gerzand and Opel's N/A process

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

subscribed. im going boost in a j32a2, but info here is great.

I hate cars

Opel is supercharged.

You're right. Stick to the NA process and spend 4 times the amount per hp and reduce streetability in the process.

And if you didn't notice, I had just a little advice in this thread also. I've built NA, supercharged, turbocharged and nitrous cars. I have a pretty good idea of what works the best in a street car application. But what can I say, another 22yr old that knows it all yet has never built anything.

tenzingsherpa

^^^ haha funny!!! humm i may be switching my plans around then. hey IHC do u think my 03 J30a4 with TL 6-speed tranny will handle the turbo?? i don't wanna blow up my engine u know but at the same time want the better of the two imo. thanks for gerzand, and IHC for a very informative thread.

tenzingsherpa

opps i meant thanks to opel, IHC, and Gerzand for a informative thread.

Sonnick

Great info in here. My goal is to run 12s on the stock 3.0 while be fully streetable of course. Intake/exhaust mods, high CR, cams, some DRs and driver mod should do it

tenzingsherpa

^^^ possibly dude but i don't know!! i think it is better of turboing now that i think of it. i may be just doing turbo after my tl 6-speed swap, or just do the turbo instead of the supercharger after the j36 stroke.

I hate cars

I'm sure it will handle it just fine. Tuning is the key. If you keep it out of detonation you will be surprised at how much power you can make and that goes for most engines.

I don't want to go too far off topic because I know this thread is about the NA route.

The main thing to remember is NA mods *usually* decrease streetability and drivability. They usually shift the powerband up higher and usually give just a boost in hp with a very slight boost in torque.

Boost will give you tons more low end torque and high end hp. You can retain stock drivability. In other words it will drive just like it came off the showroom floor until you put your foot into it. Not to bring my GN into it but if you drove it and didn't get into the throttle much you would think it was a stock high 13 second car from the way it drives.

At the same hp level boost will usually be more reliable. It gets it's bad rep because it's insanely easy to make insane power and/or people don't tune and cause detonation.

I say "usually" a lot because there are exceptions to everything.

Opel

Turbo isn't all that "rocket science" kinda thing to be surprised at. For instance, the facial expressions you see on someone or their responses when you tell them a certain car that's not common to run a turbo on, now has a turbo its like "OMG IT MUST ME A ROCKET"
You can pretty much turbo any motor. Its a matter of fitment and tuning.
The difference from some cars to others is that, some may have strong factory internals, while others wont. Some may have good flowing heads, while some may have poor flowing heads etc. Bottom line is, some motors will need a few upgrades, while some are good to go.

In our 3G TL case, IHC and as well as me mentioned what you really need to have the turbo run reliably, and not only that, but be able to make all the power you can, and I bet you, it will be more than you can personally handle or put to use.

Deciding NA vs. Turbo isn't a factor based on our motors. You can go NA with any motor, and same thing with turbo.

Like it's been mentioned many times, a fully built NA motor isn't going to be a street machine. And I mean fully build, from balanced crank (youll be reving at 10,000 rpm), bearings, rods, pistons, rings, oil pump. Fully build heads, PnP, bigger valves, springs, retainers, guides, BIG CAMS, and the whole 9 yards.
After CR's been bumped to 13:1, race gas is your only friend.

and I need to put this in Bold:
"The higher you rev, the less reliable your motor will be"

You're not gonna be making any power anywhere below 6-7k rpm, so think about how streetable it would be.

Now, Im speaking of this based on the power goals some people may be aiming...and at the end of the day, you will nowhere touch the turbo.

Hey, you wanna build this: Shorten the stroke to below 64mm, rev to 19,000 rpm, and youll prob make 650-700 hp...but really, the only place you'll be able to drive your car is a track!

So you can't really say, or anyone for instance, its pointless to turbo this, while you can turbo that. IMO, I enjoy more turning something, into something that's not supposed or meant to be. To me its "exclusiveness" . Getting an EVO and making 600 whp with it isn't all that unexpected. There's every bolt and washer available for them. And they were also meant for this.

But making 500-600 Whp (even more) on a 3G TL, and drive to work in it reliably everyday is just too cool!

indecisivefool

3.6L with a 75shot built by AsianImports will make 380-400whp and have stock drivability+reliable and will run LOW LOW 12s like 12.0 with the right track set-up

We have a stock 2004 tl w/140k miles that runs 12.6 with a 65shot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9cQy_ZwrcU

if you want to go fast have Asian Imports build it every car he builds(j32a) runs 12s

Now a turbo-kit for a TL will have to be custom and to have stock drivability it will need to be tune. which there are no aftermarket ecu tunning for the tl,cl so...

JUST SPRAY IT!!! lol

I hate cars

Babies are bottle fed. Men get blown.

Seriously though I hate nitrous. It's too easy to blow something up and after a year of bottle refills it's no longer cheaper.

All it takes is a fuel jet plugging or a fuel solenoid to stick closed or low fuel pressure or any number of things to seriously screw things up. Besides that, it's on/off, linear power is not it's strong point nor is off the line traction.

I have run it back in the old days on my personal car to spool the turbo before the current technology and even left it on for a few full passes.

indecisivefool

all it takes is....... everything you name can and has been a problem for both nos+turbo

And year of refills will NOT cost more then turbo I dont care what people think
I've spent about $150 this season on NOS so lets say for the next 7years I spent $300ea season. thats 6refills 65-80 passes with every season. 7yr = $2100

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

my cl loves the spray too. what times are they (asian import) running in teh cl?

Opel

Indecisivefool:
Do you read any of the posts of you just glance while scrolling down impatiently to post something.

Serioulsy, we're talking about a FULLY BUILD motor, and you post a "Stroker with NOS"
What unreliable mod has been done to it that would effect normal steet driveability? Except the fact that its risking to blow at any time (when you spray), doesn't take away its steetability. It can be driven normal off spray, But Is it reving to 10k? does it have some big cams? Is it running 12.5:1-13:1 CR?

Please read the posts.
You're wrong about the turbo (there's a full kit in existence)
You're wrong about tuning the TL also.

indecisivefool

I ran 13.30@105 with DR 1.9 60ft in april 2009
after a few mods ran a 13.4@106 with streettire 2.1 60ft
so I think my car(asianImports built) with DR should run 13.0-13.1
All-Motor stock 3.2L

2004 TL with Navi fastest pass 12.6@112 65 shot
2003 CL fastest pass...SIG... my car should run 12.3-12.2on a 75shot

the reason why is I raced a SC s2000 360whp ran 12.5@116 2.260ft (so its a 12.0 car w/slicks) and did a 2nd gear roll to 5th and pulled 1 car. so if a can spay out the hole and pull a 1.8 60ft 12.0 here I come

NEXT year FIRST and Only CL in the 11s(hopefully)

indecisivefool

1. I know the guy who built it
2. there is NO GOOD ECU management yeah aem Fic will do but ASK inlinepro (MATT,John) they will tell you FIC SUCKS!!!