Evil_Pineapple

How far can you go with mods on the 3rd Gen TL without going to forced induction? What kind of power would it produce?

Maddizm

iTrader: (5)

Bolt-ons only? I prolly around 300 whp.... give or take a few . Can't be sure about that. Type-S, though.

Evil_Pineapple

Everything and anything...

Bearcat94

Right. Type-S, around 300 HP.

Look up Blackura_NY's thread. I think the title was "It's a Beautiful Day for a Dyno". In this sub-forum.

Seach that user and "Beautiful" you should find it.

Evil_Pineapple

If thats the case... guess its not worth doing anything to my ride unless i go Turbo or something... I have the base TL

Bearcat94

Here's that thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/what-b-u-tiful-day-dyno-690686/

Inaccurate

I recently did some searching of our forum while looking for the same answer. Based on what my search revealed, max HP for the J32A3_5AT (Base 3.2 with auto trans) is between 250-260 WHP. This is with is every bolt-on mod.

I hate cars

If you're not limiting it to bolt-ons only, it should be capable of 450hp but streetability would be in the gutter.

Fully ported heads, big cams, custom intake manifold, 90mm throttlebody, race gas only 13:1 compression, a valvetrain and bottom end capable of 10,000rpm, and many, many little tricks.

Really, after the ported heads and full bolt-ons, you're going to kill streetability but the high compression, big cams, and higher rpms are where the power is going to be. A 450hp 3.2L would be a race only engine that would be peaky and fussy to drive and would not come close to passing emissions. It would be lopey and stink of unburned hydrocarbons.

We had a guy recently that went all out with one of the Buick V6s, it was a 4.5L methanol burner with no turbo or nitrous. Ended up at 590hp but it was a pure race car. The turbo V6s that were at the track the same day were putting down the same or better hp and were quiet and tame and drove home under their own power, most were daily drivers, while the NA one had to be trailered out of there.

Inaccurate

Duh! We forgot to define the term "bolt-ons". IHC, stop teasing us. LOL!

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csmeance

You can go as far as you want, its just how much you want to spend vs. what you get. You can spend close to 20K and make it into a monster. 3.8L v6 with tons of work done and have it rev to 12k if you wanted to. Is it worth it in the end? No.

How much power can you get before you hit that limit and spend massive amounts for nothing, probably 310-330WHP and that's with every easy thing done and a good motor from the factory:

Intake
Big Bore throttle Body
Ported and Polished intake manifold
Ported and Polished Intake runners
Inovative Motor Mounts
Methanol Injection
P2R spacers
Honda Factory spacers
Ultimate cooling mod
5 angle Valve Job
TL-S cam's
UR Crank Pulley
Rehoned motor block
Pre-Cat Deletes
J-pipe
3rd Cat delete
Cat-Back exhaust

6MT would be necessary to get that goal, for 5AT I'd be probably 300-310

Opel

what IHC said is actually all BOLT-ONs...just cause you can't see them on the surface, they're still bolt-ons lol.

i thought about the same thing few years back...but lack of tuning was a big limit... i wanted a high reving 3.2. I wanted to regrind the stock cams, higher compression and stroke. balanced crank, lighter flywheel. and the rest of porting and enlargements.

IHC is right...you need to rev to make the power on the 3.2 (other alternative would be increasing the bore, thus more liters, which you really can't by much anyway, but we're talking 3.2)

think of how an F1 motor makes the power.... 2.3L V8- if tuned and built like an S2000, we're talking in the neighborhood of 500 hp... but it makes about 900 hp instead...reving at nearly 19000 RPM.
now, thats a fucking race motor

Evil_Pineapple

Wow... thanks man.... thats the kind of answer i was looking for. Right now i am limiting my mods to cosmetic because i still have a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty and am not going to fuck that up. I am looking for and everyday beater to drive to work so i can park this car and keep it nice for my summer car. Im also debating if i even WANT to turbo this car out since its an automatic.... i have owned only manual trans for the last 10 years and find the automatic a nice break, especially in traffic.


Can a turbo'd automatic still be as fun as a stick? Im not sure. I do love this car.... im loving it more and more every day i drive it. Ill never bag on Honda owners again.... well... ill still bag on the '91 honda civics with the huge fart can and the custom bumper thats falling off... lol.

Evil_Pineapple

And this would cost just about half the price of a turbo system or even closer to the same price wouldnt it....

Evil_Pineapple

Thanks to you all for all the info i really appreciate it... i am new to Honda and am learning as i go.... I jumped ship from mitsubishi cause i didnt want to spend 10k or more on my 2.4l engine to get it to MAYBE 300WHP and be maxed out. I have always liked the TL and found one i can afford. After reading all this it looks like turbo is the ONLY way to go to get nice power out... and not go bankrupt trying to squeeze more juice than it has.

chill_dog

Well, according to IHC, an auto is better than a manual in a turbo application.

phee

iTrader: (5)

Not even close

NAiL05

The question should be how much money do you have. Then we can give you an answer with NA.

Jaco

iTrader: (1)

If you could get the engine to sustain life at 10,000 rpm I bet you could get around 500 hp with the proper modifications.

I hate cars

The fun factor is personal preference. One thing that's true 99% of the time, an auto turbo car will get you down the 1/4 quicker and will be more drivable.

On the launch, you can build boost by powerbraking with the auto. With the manual it's not possible to build boost off the start unless you install a 2-step, not sure if that's possible on the TL. For example, I've destroyed a couple 800+rwhp Supras because I'm sitting on the line with 20psi waiting to be unleashed on the green and they have to wait a couple seconds before the boost comes in.

Evil_Pineapple

none!!!

Evil_Pineapple

Well, thing is... 1/4 mile is fun... but i spent my younger years doing that. Where im from we will drag race anything... we will drag a damn moped...lol... im moving away from drag races...

Im into AutoX... I have been doing AutoX since last year and it is fun as hell!!! I dont have one thing i want to do, thats why all the questions. I want to know ALL posibilities...

Bearcat94

Suspension, wheels, tires, brakes.

You don't need (more/exceptional) HP for Auto-X. Also, watch what you bolt on or upgrade. Some of the bolt ons will move you up in class. You can get into ST or SM or SP classes pretty easily and end up competing against cars you just won't ever beat.

TL is a heavy car to muscle around a tight Auto-X course.

Look for posts/vids by Michael Benz - Indy SCCA Region champ in class with a SuperCharged TL. I also posted some vids of TL-S at the Auto-X last year in the Photo Gallery.

Opel

on drag strip an auto will get a better 60' time, resulting a slight better ET (im talking turbo, not stock)... but in reality, our 3G TL, Auto vs. Manual, if both cars made the same power, and weighted the same, and put the same power to the wheels...Manual will be quicker, due to gearing ratio. If anyone disagrees, its because you just simply can't drive manual!
And dont say, you lose momentum on shifts, because thats bullcrap.

btw, this wasn't directed towards anyone specific lol

Opel

decrease stroke, balance crank, valve-train. it is very doable.

S2000 was held at 9000 rpm for 24 hrs non-stop, it lived a long life lol

I hate cars

Short gearing becomes much less important with the torque of the turbo. Where the manual had a huge advantage in gearing when stock, the taller gears of the auto actually become an advantage with the turbo.

Many manufacturers run taller gears in the turbo version of a car that's made both turbo and NA. Turbos love the higher load of the tall gears.

When you shift, the turbo does slow and while it may only take half a second to respool, that's forever in a race. With an auto, you're at full power for the whole run. Even if you keep the gas to the floor for the whole 1/4 and powershift, as soon as you hit the clutch and take the load off the motor, the turbo slows.

We had a member throw a manual into a GN and he lost 1.5 seconds in a bottom 10 second car.

Off the line, the auto is going to put buslengths on the manual and with the taller gearing of the auto, it's not likely the manual will even begin catching it until well past 100mph.

For a street warrior or dragstrip terror, I would go auto. For autocross or road racing, the manual may have an advantage.

I hate cars

It really depends on the speeds. If you have lots of semi-low speed where you're going to get caught "in between" gears, the torque convertor on the auto may fill the gap so to speak. Either way, you'll likely learn left foot braking with the turbo on there. For auto-x, chances are you won't be able to floor it at all.

Opel

agreed....i tend to speak of autox and road racing....because honestly, im not into drag at all, ...to me theres much more to a car than just going straight lol

NedShneebly

unless they finally crack the ECU, you can't brake torque the auto (3rd Gen). It cuts RPM's at 2K. I've tried many different combo's of brake torquing and with even the slightest bit of rev's while standing on the brake causes a hesitation when you release the brake and step on the pedal. Fastest launch for auto's is still just release brake and stab gas pedal.

I hate cars

I've tried mine before, rpms go to about 2400, let off the brake and it goes. I wonder if it's a year specific thing. Mine's an '06.

NedShneebly

'06, too. maybe 2400 is the max. like I said on mine, any amount of pedal while holding the brake results in a 1/2 second or so hesitation after the brake is released, like it's unloading the torque converter. I thought it was a believable safety feature Acura would have to protect the transmission from abuse. VSA on or off was the same.

I hate cars

I was going to try mine on the way to work this morning but the damn Optima was dead. Maybe this afternoon.

Evil_Pineapple

I already know what i need for suspension mods for AutoX... thanks for the help though... Im still in the SI (special interest) class cause im still pretty new and just want to go out and have some fun and not care about points at all. Its a wider car than im used to for autoX but its not heavier than some of the EVO's and STI's that race.

Evil_Pineapple

From my limited AutoX experience... you floor it for a few seconds then your having to let off cause your coming to the turn already. You never leave second gear. Even my buddy who got me into AutoX, he drives a '96 M3 and he never leaves second gear. His engine mods are intake and exhaust.... the rest of the mods are all suspension. he smokes the Turbo'd cars out there... the only ones he hates racving against are the turbo'd AWD. They have a handling advantage... obviously.

Evil_Pineapple

Thats exactly how i feel as well!!

I hate cars

I've done a little auto-x in the GN. Driving a turbo car out there is a little different. I would upgrade the brakes first, because you'll learn to drag the brakes with one foot on the gas to keep the turbine speed up so boost is nearly instant when you need it. There are other ways to keep the turbo spooled with your foot off the gas where boost is instant. If you're interested and get this kit I can help you out. Only problem is the "pop bang" method can shorten turbo life a little. The other thing you may do if you plan on using the car strictly for auto-x with the relatively low speeds is order a turbo that's slightly smaller or with a slightly lower AR.

I hate cars

Things change as the car gets faster. Holding a car down with over 700lbs of torque and 3,000lbs on street tire becomes a challenge at anything below 110mph. It's a ton of fun. The way I look at it is you can't safely test the car's cornering limits on the street but you can make a quick acceleration pass when the conditions are right. In other words, lots of power is more fun than good cornering on the daily drive to work.

On the other hand, I think I would have more fun at Willow Springs than Famoso if we're talking track racing. What's kept me at the drag strip is putting the big block race cars back on the trailer with my quiet daily driven V6. That never gets old.

I do plan on getting more roadcourse time under my belt.

Evil_Pineapple

I appreciate the help... i wont be getting the turbo kit for a little while... if i decide to actually get it. Im not at all opposed to having more power for the everyday. I would also like to drag AND AutoX. Im looking for a winter beater right now so i can keep the TL off the snow as much as possible. I bought the car at first because i am having another kid (my 4th) and i was driving a stratus coupe. The car seat and my 7 year old would not fit in the back seat of my coupe. I was originally looking to get a beater to drive everyday but i didnt want it to break down on me in a snow storm with the kids in the car and have that P.O.S. be my only vehicle... So, i got the TL. now im still looking for a beater to get me to work but atleast if it breaks down or im fixing it so that it WONT break down... I have the TL to drive. Then when the beater is running the TL gets parked in the garage.


You all have given me alot of information to think about. I really appreciate it. My time here on this forum has been WAY more productive and pleasant than when i was on the Mitsubishi Forums. Most of those guys spend their time on Flaming you for asking a question than answering your question. IHS, If i get the kit at some point i may take you up on your offer to help... Thanks!

TheWanderer316

iTrader: (7)

hahaha, i have exactly what you described, lol.

I hate cars

I got the car jumped off and tried it a little while ago. Mine just goes up to the stall speed, right around 2,300-2,400 and stays there until I let off the brake. No hesitation when the brakes are released. I do agree that flashing the convertor is the best for launching these things.

This hesitation, is it well known or do you think it may be your particular car?

I hate cars

You got to step back and think, that's pretty amazing for a little 3.2 V6 with no power adder. 350-370hp at the crank, that's pretty amazing. I think we've gotten spoiled. That was high output V8 territory not too many years ago.