Hey guys,

I bought a Hondata Flashpro for my car (TLS 6-speed), in addition to the many other mods for my car, with the goal being to make it drive better. My definition of that is getting rid of rev-hang, and having as smooth a transition between on and off throttle as possible. I'm not particularly interested in making any more power currently. So far I've played around with a few of the settings myself and have seen some returns, but it's clear I need more help and information to really take it to the next step. I had thought about posting on the Hondata forum but it seems very scarcely populated at this point, so here I am. I'll post some screenshots and supplemental info to try and help anyone else who wants to navigate these settings or tune these things themselves.

The first major hurdle I've yet to solve is that since going to a lightweight flywheel (AASCO 14lbs), my car will not return to idle properly. I think it's because the RPMs fall too fast for the stock idle settings to recover in time, and so the system overreacts causing the idle to bounce above regular idle speed. It is most noticeable with A/C on as this adds to the load on the engine and causes the RPMs to fall even faster. I have also raised the idle speed (this is a long term change I intend to make) to 900 RPM, and this did not alleviate the behavior.

Now my initial thought regarding this was that I needed to change the Overrun injector restart rpm cut and recovery values, that maybe the injectors are coming on too late to compensate for the increased speed with which the engine RPM drops. However, I have been unwilling to try so far, as through my reading I've read that changing these values can potentially wash the cylinder walls with fuel causing piston ring damage. I'm not sure if I've misinterpreted that, but I would really appreciate it if anyone can clarify if it's safe to do so, or if it might help this behavior.



In that picture you can also see "Overrun throttle opening (rev hang) enabled," setting, which I highly recommend turning off as it does a lot to eliminate the way the RPMs hang (and even increase slightly) when releasing the throttle on the stock tune.

Beyond that there are more settings to modify how the car behaves on/off throttle.

First, there's this setting in Fuel that controls the delay (in ms) with which the injectors shut off in overrun situations (deceleration).



These are the stock settings for the 3G TL Type-S (and maybe the Base TL as well). The 'stock tuned' calibration that comes with the Hondata changes all of these values to 40 by default. What I have read regarding this is that changes of 10ms can make a big difference, and that going too low on these values can result in very jerky off throttle behavior. These values also tie in the to the next section, in which I believe they work in tandem to control how the behaves once you take your foot off the gas.

This upcoming section is the one I need the most help with. Pretty much everything else this far has been easy for me to comprehend, but this I'm struggling a bit. It is the "Overrun manifold pressure," section in throttle.



So I don't quite understand how these settings impact when the injectors shut off. The overrun injector restart RPM settings controls when the injectors shut off and restart based on engine speed, but this setting does it as well based on manifold pressure? Is it about different situations, like the injector restart RPM is for when the car is put into neutral and the car is coasting, and the overrun cutoff MAP settings are for when the car is rolling in gear and you apply or remove throttle input?

Thanks for reading, appreciate any help or comments.

 

i would highly suggest having dom (very well known TL tuner) tune your car. he has done probably over 100 TL cars and is very knowledgeable and does it all over email. I know you're trying to figure it out, but dom is less than 200 bucks and he will make your car finely tuned and customized to what you want. if you want his email, please PM me.

i was one of the first TL cars to have flashpro and have done over 150 logs with various tuners as we dialed in the settings between flashpro and the TL, but I wasn't doing it myself, i let the tuners work on it so i'm not much help there. i did mess with the overrun fuel cut delay settings a bit and found that there is a fine line as you drop those numbers. i ran lower numbers for a while but then went back to stock a few months ago for the overrun numbers

 

I specifically asked Dom to tune my car and told him what I was looking (see above) and he said he wouldn't be able to help me with such things. If there were a tuner available either online or locally that would be willing to tune my car in this way I would happily pay that, or more.

 

why not just have dom tune your car like he does everyone else, and then once it's running optimally, you can go in there and try to play with the settings? who knows maybe him tweaking stuff the right way with his experience will alleviate some or all of your issues, i think it's worth a shot for under 200

 

Maybe I missed something, but you are still running the stock throttle body? You should barely notice a change in the idle characteristics with the lighter flywheel.
I suspect that you aren't doing the idle re-learn procedure after reflashing the ECU. A reflash resets the ECU when it's finished, kind of like rebooting a computer.
That means the RAM is flushed and with it, any stored normalized values such as the TB home position.

I strongly recommend putting all the values that you tweaked back to stock and then do the idle re-learn after reflashing the ECU.

 

The idle problem I describe only started after installing the lightweight flywheel in March of this year. The video you see is from the summer and I received my Hondata in September. This behavior started well before I changed any tuning settings and persisted through any changes I've made.

I'm well aware of the ECU and TB learned position. Before I bought my Flashpro I did precisely what you're saying, many times. I thought my TB might have been the problem, so I tried resetting it (and the PCM) via Honda software, and then doing the relearn procedure. I even swapped my throttle body with another used unit followed by a reset via software and a proper relearn. Didn't change a damn thing.

 

That's odd. People with the Aasco flywheel don't report an idle issue after installing it. I'm wondering if you have a vacuum leak. Have you inspected the engine mount vacuum tubing?

I've had an Aasco flywheel for several years and a larger TB as well and haven't had an idle issue like yours. At least not since adjusting for the larger TB. Installing a larger TB and
not making adjustments to the air flow table is what generally causes idle issues and rev hang.

 

It's definitely possible. I've personally inspected the main boot, and the lines that are on the back side of the engine near the intake manifold and throttle body. I had my local Acura dealership replace both the front and rear engine mounts on my car and I specifically asked them to check the vacuum lines as well, and they said they were fine, but perhaps I should check myself.

I haven't smoke tested the car, but I might have the means to do so at work if I can convince the foreman to let me use the one we have. I have monitored how much vacuum that the Torque app reports in the past as well (it was -17 to -20 IIRC), but I have no idea if this is a very reliable way to check to for vacuum leaks.

 

don't know if it will help but have you tried a CPK relearn? It might help the ECU relearn the pickup rate for crank when RPM's go up/down.

 

After you've determined that all engine functions are operating normally, you can play with the "Throttle flow vs opening" table.
Try increasing all the values by 5% except the first value, which represents a closed TB. Don't mess with the top row as it's an index of throttle angle in degrees.
This table is for dynamic response such as tip-in and needs to be adjusted when a larger TB is used, like in my case. Although you don't have a larger TB,
it can help with the "return to idle" being stable. In making adjustments to my table I achieved a very stable idle with the larger TB, but I'm still experimenting
because the tip-in is jerky at higher RPMs. I've stopped making adjustments until I can get some air flow numbers of my TB at the specified angles.

Anyway, just thought I would provide an additional option that might help.

 

I have the Aasco flywheel and UR crank pulley as well. Returns to idle normally with AC off but it gets wonky, like OP's, when the AC is on.

 

When I have a chance to steal the software suite again I'll try this. I was reading on the forum it seems like the CPK relearn is exactly the same as the TB relearn but with some specific driving afterwards.

I appreciate this. I'll start working on the further checking of my cars running condition first, then perhaps I'll try making more adjustments.

When the A/C is on it's definitely the most noticeable, as you can see in the video the whole car shakes as the RPM dip below 500 RPM briefly.

I recall your thread and our discussion about the AASCO flywheel and the clutch choices available. How does your car feel on and off the throttle after going to the much lighter flywheel and crank pulley? Jerky at all?

 

I've got the same rev bounce issue with UR UD pulley, AASCO FW and MDX cams, made worse with bigger manifold. Figure this out and the rev hang when we change TB sizes and Hondata can be a real tuning solution again.

Dom turned me down a while back too after having been his customer 9 years ago. Said he was working on other things, he may be done with the TLs.

 

I'm using the AASCO flywheel, and other than having to use a bit more throttle off-idle, due to the lower mass, I haven't experienced any drivability issues. In fact, the clutch engages more predictably than before. My car is completely stock, except for RL cams.

 

Any chance you could share Dom's email? I'm trying to line up a tuner and want to start with him but perhaps he's not doing tunes any more.

 

Sure thing. I'll send you a PM.