datplayaz

Do they make Hawk pad for the 5AT? if so anybody have the product # for it?

hondasaurus

I have to give big THANKS to GoBig. The Hawks are superb. Not only do they stop better, but they do not produce as much brake dust as the Brembos. I replaced the pads at 28,000 Miles. No more annoying squeak!

The installation procedure was smooth. I've outlined the basic steps that you can use to change them. It's a dirty job and should not take you more than 2hrs.

Steps:
1) Turn the front wheel to left if you're changing left brake, vice versa for the right brake.

2) Unbolt 10mm bolts that hold the brake line to the suspension.

3) Unbolt 19mm bolts that hold the caliper.

4) Push caliper inward and pull outward against the brake disc. This will loosen the caliper from the brake disc.

5) Remove caliper from disc. (Use a short stool to rest the caliper on to.)

6) Use a thin Phillips screwdriver and a hammer (or any hammering device) to push the two pins that hold the brake pads.
*NOTE: push from outside
*NOTE: push out 1st pin, remove the metal spring plate, then push out 2nd pin.

7) Use the stock shims on the new Hawks

8) Install the 1st pin. Pushing the pin from the backside.

9) Install the metal spring plate.

10) Install the 2nd pin.

11) Use your fingers to press back the Hawks against the pistons as much as possible.

12) Slide the caliper onto brake disc. (Use the same pushing and pulling method to help move the pistons back a bit. This will help the caliper slide on.)

13) Install 19 mm bolts.

14) Install 10 mm bolts.

NOTE: you must bed in the brake pads. Find a big empty parking lot to do this.

1) do 3-4 slow stops from 45MPH-35MPH (don't stop completely)
2) do 5-8 hard stops from 45MPH-20MPH (don't stop completely)
3) air cool brakes (drive around at a low speed)
4) do 3-4 hard stops from 45MPH-20MPH (don't stop completely)
5) air cool brakes (drive around at a low speed)

GoBig

Great write-up! I never had to work with unscrewing the bolts, but that may have made getting the pads out easier. Yes, the brake dust is a lot less. They do squeal a little, but it's way less than the Brembos!

rstark

I did the same except for steps 1 - 5 and 12 - 14. I didn't find it necessary to remove the caliper. Also, I used Permatex Copper anti-seize compound on the back of the pads before installing. As for the bedding procedure, I used this one: http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

The brakes make a slight noise *sometimes* on light braking, but nothing like the Brembos.

hondasaurus

The good news is that I don't have any squeal on the Hawks. It could be that I removed the caliper to do the installation. If another member was to use the same procedure, then we can definitely know for sure.

rstark

I don't have the squeal with the Hawks either, sounds more metallic and doesn't happen all the time. My Brembo's were giving off a worse metallic sound before I changed them at 9k miles.

special-ed

I've got the part numbers for the ceramic pads for the 5AT fronts and had them ordered from Pep Boys for about $100. I'll post the part numbers when I get a chance to run back to the car and pull the box from the trunk. Haven't made the time to install yet......

carguyrob

I would love to replace my stock pads with the Hawk pads to reduce the insane brake dust. I really don't have any experience replacing brakes at all. Where would you suggest I go to have the pads replaced if I ordered them online? Thanks!

hondasaurus

Hey Guys:

After 1000 miles of driving, the hawks do squeal at low stopping speed (20mph-5mph). It's not high pitched but still a squeal that can be heard from other drivers.

Brake dust is absolutely less than stock pads.


Any thoughts in preventing the squealing?

mbwmn

Any thoughts in preventing the squealing?[/QUOTE]


Honda Molykote77.
it's a paste, comes in a tube slightly larger than a roll of quarters. put a light coating on both sides of the shims and re-install the pads.
IF YOU USE TOO MUCH IT WILL MELT INTO THE FRICTION SURFACE AND RUIN THE PADS! ""light coating"...

Nitrotiger

Did anyone find out if the rotors are the same i would love some drillerd rotors for tht Brembos

3PUTT

just to quote another member's (dcarlinf1) comments:

Separating fact from fiction



I and many of my autocrossing and road racing friends have been trying to separate the marketing hype from the product and explain the existence of Eradispeeds or any cross drilled and/or slotted brake rotors. Mostly, there seems to be a misunderstanding of the reasons for drilling holes in a perfectly good rotor. Cross drilled rotors have somehow become the "magical cure" for your brakes. Many would like you to believe that they will help you stop faster, they will wear better, stay cooler, and they can magically avoid warping. Unfortunately all of these things are false. But, since the guys who make these products spend more on advertising than I do (ok, I don't), it is easy to fall into that trap.



Broken down to the most basic physics (don't worry, no serious math involved here). You will begin to see the reasons they can't do the things they are touted to do.



The "basic" lesson:

Ok. If I am trying to boil a pot of water with 2 gallons of water in it. It will take a lot of heat to get all of that water up to boiling temperature. Right? Now, if I remove 1/2 the water and with it, 1/2 the mass used to absorb heat, it will now be easier to get that water to boil since there is less mass to absorb heat. Make sense?

Ok, If I take a 3 lb chunk of metal and a 6 lb chunk of metal and set them both over a small torch, which one do you think will heat up first? The lighter mass will see a more rapid temperature rise (it will get hotter, quicker). Correct?

Now, if I take a brake rotor that weighs 20 lbs and begin making "panic stops" with it, it's temperature will increase. Easy enough.

If I now take the same rotor, drill holes in it reducing its weight to 17 lbs and make the same "panic stops", would it not make sense (from the above examples) that the lighter rotor will end that stop with a higher temperature? Less mass to absorb heat will cause a more rapid temperature rise.

Many will say "cross drilled rotors cool better". Hmmm. If you really look at it, how much air do you think can blow through those little holes? Add the fact that they are spinning at a reasonably high speed and the cooling argument becomes even less believable. In fact, the holes could, in theory, disrupt the natural draw of air from the center of the rotor to the outside edge. That is the flow that actually cools the rotors.

The reason:

Rotors were originally drilled to eliminate something known as "green fade". The best way to explain "Green fade" is to relate it to an air hockey table. The puck is suspended on a cushion of air that prevents it from touching the table, this reduces the friction between the puck and the table.

A long time ago, pads were made with the best resins we had available. Many of those resins would produce gas as they cured. When a pad was used the first few times, the heat would "cure" the resin which would cause it to produce vapors. This was known as "out gassing". The vapors would build up between the pad and the rotor and lift or "force" the pad away from the rotor (like the puck in air hockey). This caused the brakes to be very ineffective, even though they were not yet at the maximum rated operating temperature. The holes were drilled to allow that gas a place to escape. So, it is correct to say that rotors were cross drilled to eliminate fade, but not for the reasons you would think. The good news is that today's resins no longer suffer from these problem and the modern race pads are so good that this is really no longer an issue. So, by cross drilling rotors, you will only manage to shorten the lifespan of that rotor (it now has less surface area to wear against the brake pad and will wear more quickly as well as a reduction in weight that will cause the brakes to operate at a higher temperature).

Another problem with cross drilled rotors is the potential for cracking around the holes. The holes become a stress point in the cast iron that can more readily allow cracks to form in the rotor surface. This requires that you pay close attention to the rotor surface for signs of cracking. Some small cracks, known as "surface checking" are acceptable, but anything that resembles a crack would be a reason to replace that rotor. When looking at slotted rotors keep in mind that the slots should not be milled off of the edge of the rotor. This is a great place for cracks to form, and they will. The slot should be ball milled in the rotor face and originate and terminate on the surface of the rotor without exiting the rotors edge. The goal is to eliminate sharp edges that cause stress risers on the rotor surface. This will reduce the possibility of cracking. If you see slotted rotors with slots that are milled off the edge of the rotor, shop for another brand. Slots that are not cut through the edge of the rotor are a good sign that the manufacturer of that rotor knows what they are doing. This is a good indicator of parts made by a brake company and not a machine shop that happens to drill and slot rotors.

Many years ago, when I ordered my first brake kit from Baer Racing, they told me that drilled rotors would typically last 20% less than an equivalent solid rotor. This was why they always recommended solid rotors for extreme use. Baer has changed their stance on this since discovering there was a large amount of money to be made selling "Eradispeeds" (they are very pretty brake rotors). This change in their marketing strategy has caused me to feel that they have gone from "supporting the racing community" to "making maximum money". And, I guess I can't blame them.....

If you are truly looking for upgraded braking performance for your car. I suggest, as a first upgrade, that you leave the stock size rotors and upgrade the pads. Try a set of Hawk HPS pads or something from Larry at Carbotech Engineering (www.carbotecheng.com). You'll think you put "big brakes" on all 4 corners (compared to stock).

If you must go bigger, look at the G-stop kit from LG Motorsports. It will let you use a C5 Corvette rotor. Bang for the buck, the LG kit is an excellent choice. There are larger kits and they increase in both cost and braking ability. Only your needs and your budget are the limit.


Tires:

I'd also like to take a moment to address the impact that tires have on braking performance.

While it is true that the tires have the "last word" with the pavement when it comes to how the car accelerates, turns, and brakes. There are a few things that tires can and can't do. While it is true that a car on wide, sticky tires should and will out brake the same car on thin, non-grippy tires (all other things being equal). And, while tires are extremely important. They become less important on the 5th or 8th stop or the 3rd lap of a road course. By then the brakes (depending on rotor size, cooling, pads, etc) may be so hot that they can't lock up the skinny little tires, much less the wide, grippy ones. This is where upgrading the brakes pays dividends. This is not meant to minimize the tires role in braking performance. Simply, you must remember to weigh the tires limits against the brake systems limits. You are working with a "package" and changes in one can impact the other. So, while tires will be the limit on the first few stops, they will play a less important role as the brake system temperatures increase. Remember, just because you can lock up the tires on the first stop does not mean that you can't benefit from brake system upgrades.

zax123

I changed my pads to Hawk and put on new OEM discs on my 6MT a few days ago. The install went very well and the new Hawks stop very well. I'm very happy with them and have no squeaking. The fun part is drilling out the screws that hold the discs on. I'm never able to unscrew them, they are rusted on so tightly.

subinf

^ - a screwdriver/punch tool might help you out a little, but usually rust is no good.

Could you please keep us updated on the hawks, I'm curious if they remain squeak free after a few months.

zax123

Believe it or not, I tried the punch tool. I whacked at the screw a couple times to try to free it and I used some liquid wrench. Nothing worked so I grabbed my trusty cordless drill and had a field day on it.

I'll try to remember to post back here in a couple months with a Hawk update.

GoBig

My Hawks are squeek free and it's been almost a year.

triggle

A simple impact screwdriver will get most of those screws out. It is like a screwdriver but is very beefy and has several bits. It is reversible. Set direction and whack it with a hammer or a plastic hammer. These tools cost about 10$ and are a great addition to the tool box. Most of those discount tool places sell them. Here's one from Harbour Freight


Loosen the toughest screws with one quick hammer blow Set includes:

• 8mm x 2-15/16'' slotted
• 8mm x 1-7/16'' slotted
• 7mm x 1-7/16'' slotted
• #3 x 2-15/16'' slotted
• #3 x 1-7/16'' Phillips
• #2 x 1-7/16'' Phillips
• 1/2'' drive to 5/16'' hex adapter
• 1/2'' drive impact driver
• Storage case

ITEM 46978-0VGA
$8.99

subinf

^ - yeah thats pretty much the thing. a good hammer hit will turn the screwdriver a tiny bit but is usually enough to break it free.

SIK TL

Are these the composite pads or the ceramic? And what is the difference? Tire rack has the HPS - composite in stock and was curious if that is good enough for the Brembo set up...

JdubyasTL

I have the 6spd w/ Brembo's and at light braking my brakes squeal. they only stop if i get on the brakes hard. i called the dealership but they said give them some time to bed in. I have 2600 miles on my car and i hate that my brakes squeal on my new car. It doesn't matter if they are wet or dry, and i wash my car about every 3 days so i know it's not excess dust build up or dirt, although there is a lot of dust from these pads after only a couple days and I drive easy. Any suggestions?

subinf

^ - keep bothering the dealer. my squealing never went away (i have an 04). i replaced the pads and there isnt the same type of squealing that the brembos had.

JdubyasTL

Has anyone heard of a TSB for this prob? I thought I read on a diff. thread that there was a tsb. Is the general concensus that the Hawk pads are the way to go for replacing the brembos. I know truck and suv stuff cuz thats all I've had the last 8 years. This is my first real "car". That's interesting stuff about the drilled/ slotted rotors. I had EBC dimpled and slotted rotors all around on my truck and felt they were far superior to stock with the EBC greenstuff pads. I was under the impression that drilled or slotted were always better, hay, they come on Lambo, Ferrari, and Porsche (drilled), Aston Martin (slotted)from the factory so why wouldn't they be, right?

bTwix

I took mine to the dealer and told them my brakes were squeaking and they replaced them with some new pads for free (they updated to a slightly different compound). Dealer said a TSB just came out (this was maybe 3 weeks ago).

JdubyasTL

thanks for the info fellas. I'll check it out

JdubyasTL

spoke with the dealer who of course know's nothing of the TSB. They said the brembos just make noise and that's the way they are, but "we'll take a look anyway". Checked out tirerack and the Hawk pads, depending on what the dealer says, may just replace the pads anyway. anyone have a TSB # for me to give the dealer.

subinf

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=11

see if your vin is within what it outlined on this link

JdubyasTL

thank ya.

RjS

Is there a new TSB on this issue other than the one that came out in July 2004? I have a little over 7000 miles on my car and I have the squeal with light braking. Spoke with the dealer today and he gave me the story that it was "just the way the Brembo's are" Brand new cars should not squeal! I am taking it in next week to have the a-spec steering wheel centered and would love to have a copy of this new TSB with me.

bTwix

Don't have the new TSB. Looked at the older TSB and my VIN was slightly outside the range specified there:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=11

Also noticed that the replacement part I was given has been incremented since the older TSB
45022-SEP-A52 (in the old TSB)
vs.
45022-SEP-A53 (what I was given)

The notes on my invoice said:
BRAKES SQUEAK ON LIGHT APPLICATION, ORDERED UPDATED PADS, ON BACKORDER, WILL NOTIFY WHEN THEY ARRIVE

He also mentioned that the "updated" pads had a slightly different compound which may be why the part number was incremented.

Good luck.

zax123

Hi guys,

So it's been a month and a half that I have the Hawks on, and about two weeks ago, they started squeaking. . It's REALLY loud and REALLY annoying. Only the front right is squeaking now and I really don't know what to do. Anyway, just wanted to report back with my experience.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I had the same problem with my Accord 2 years ago. I took it to various shops. . but couldn't fix it completely. The sound always came back in a couple of weeks.

subinf

Thank you for the update. I still get occasional squeaks with the rotex pads, doesnt sound as bad as the hawks but its still worse than I would like. I think my next pads are going to be the greenstuff ones

6pdtlinKC

you all know there is a service bulliton on the 04's with brembo brake? its for squeeling. you get new pads and sometimes new rotors

6pdtlinKC

for you guys that have had the tsb for the brembos done...

do the dealers take your word for it that theyre skeaking or do they take it for a test drive to make sure? my 04 is within the vin numbers so i qualify, but they really dont squeek that bad. ive heard it every once in a while (about once a week), and i have 33000 miles on it, but i want the new updated pads. just wandering from the people that have had it done?

SouthernBoy

Mine squeak when backing up. I didn't install my Rotex pads with the shims from the OEM pads. Do you think this could be the cause of the noise.

BTW, no sqeaking when moving forward except under rare conditions.

DeadLock

my OEM squeek when I go back, I dont know but I think its something other than just the pad.........maybe the shims are not properly installed.

subinf

that might be the case. it seems like i'm changing my mind on how much these rotex pads make noise. the fir few months i would get some low speed squeal and after some hard driving a louder noise would start. i've bee doing a lot of driving recently and there hasnt been much at all. nothing is consistent with them, except that they are much better than the OEM.

Paddlehappy

I need to replace the front brakes on my 04 TL MT at 23k miles. At one point you had pics up of when you changed out your brakes. Are those pictures still available?

sixsixfour

I can show you how to take apart the calipers and access the pads, but this is from the Evo manual.

subinf

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119423

This tread still has working pictures.