When planning on doing a extreme mod such a turbo what things should be upgrade or modified. Can someone give me a check list.
Thank you

 

 

axles and transmission!!!

 

tires!

 

suspension

 

Nice work Justn. You covered it all!

 

One reason why this forum is such a bad place to get information................

Are you getting help with this? There aren't any kit's for this so unless you find something used, you're going to need to be able to fabricate both exhaust and charge piping.

Depending on your year and type, you may be limited by the automatic transmissions ability to hold and the engine management will depend on if it's a 6MT or 5AT.

At the very minimum you'll need:

Battery relocation
Fuel pump
injectors
turbo
piping
intercooler
blow off valve
wastegate
oil supply and return install
programmable ecu (hondata or MS3)
boost controller
wideband controller

Once you start having fun......

clutch and/or 3/4 gear replacement if you're 6MT
engine internals

I'm probably missing something but this is a start.

I started out knowing very little so it is possible to do but be prepared to shovel out a large amount of cash.

 

do you really think that he'll get everything on your list?
its not likely that he's very serious at all.

 

It's not like there aren't lots of other threads on here that cover quite a bit of the basics.

A post that starts off this generic regarding something as complicated and involved as adding a turbo is generally by someone who isn't going to follow thru or just wants all info handed to them. I even know the bulk of the basics to even consider starting a turbo project just from browsing the forums yet I have zero interest of even considering it.

If this thread had started out stating something like "hey, here is what I think I need to get started on my turbo project. Does anyone see anything obvious missing from my list?" and I bet there would have been quite a few more helpful responses.

 

right, the OP doesnt even have the basics down and will need to learn that first before he can say that he wants to do a turbo set up.


or he can just take it to a shop and skip all the knowledge based parts of this and just pay to have it done.


What Im trying to say is; there's a shit ton of knowledge needed waaaay before he ever stepped foot into this thread and 1 or 2 post will not be able to cover everything he needs to learn

 

I'm now contributing to the problem but it's because of all the side comments from you all who know everything and make searching on this site impossible.

It is a waste of time for everyone who wants to actually put some meaningful information out here.

Later everyone.....if I could delete my ID, I would.

 

You should read this:

http://www.fusca.net/wp-content/uplo...imum_boost.pdf

Anyone can give parts, but if you don't understand the concept of each part and how turbocharging is operated; then you are going to run into issues. This vehicle isn't cheap nor are the parts easy to find.

Good luck

 

I dislike threads that start like this, need to research research research.. get a few books on turbocharging and read up on it.

Need to have a goal:A= XXXWHP
Need to have a budget:B= $XX,XXX.XX
And seeing if you have enough of B to get you to A.

 

I feel your frustration, as I left the forum years ago when I couldn't get an answer as to what the Comptech ACM did and why a supercharger was possible but not a turbo. I searched and searched and hell, I STILL don't know WTF the ACM REALLY does. But I think search should be the FIRST task when looking into this, as there are a good number of threads. Perhaps we can salvage this one though and use it how Jackass said.

As others have said, honestly, if the OP understands FI at all, then you don't need to make a basic checklist of EVERY single item. I mean, come on, listing the wastegate, blow off valve, intercooler, are not REALLY needed to be said. One could even dispute it - you dont NEED an intercooler, you don't NEED a blow off valve.

To offer forum specific info, it should pertain to the TL specifically. For example, as you mentioned the tuning is year/transmission dependent - and this should be the NUMBER ONE thing mentioned IMHO.

To the OP - if you have an 04-06 AUTO, you will HAVE to use a piggyback or standalone. The MS3 is your best bet, due to prior use on this platform, and an installed base. I cover this, simply because the majority of 04-06s are autos. If you have an 07-08, you can use a Hondata. Buy it first, because you can use it day one, even without the turbo kit.

Battery relocation - pretty much definitely needed for a turbo TL, as KN mentioned. Even the Comptech supercharger requires a smaller battery. Its quite surprising how much room is taken up by the battery. Again, you can do this WELL before you get a turbo and take advantage of it day one.

Fuel pump - I'd say this depends on your HP goal. While it can't be said unequivocally, there is/are users running FI with stock fuel pumps. What is the power level you're looking for? 350whp? stock may suffice. 400? need one for sure I'd say. FWIW, I am not going to upgrade mine until I know for sure I need one, or my power desires change.

Injectors - pretty much any FI setup will need bigger injectors, so this should be assumed. How big depends on your HP goal. Some people like to jump to 1000cc+ right away, others start smaller and stay there or upgrade as power desires increase.

Turbo - it is a turbo kit being planned so obviously needed - size is entirely up to you. A lot of guys are running a 60lb/min turbo which I'm torn on right now. Sure, it has GREAT power potential, but it isn't even in its efficiency range at a power level we could use on a stock bottom end, so I'm debating about going smaller. Honda guys ALWAYS go BIG on the turbo. I've seen 65lb/min turbos on 1.6L street cars.

Flanges - if you are fabbing your own kit, you'll need 2 of the exhaust manfold flanges, and a turbo flange, as well as a wastegate flange.

Piping - two types needed here - exhaust manifold/turbo 'up pipe' and intercooler piping. size needs to be determined here as well. Also, do you want to run pipe or tube for the exhaust? I see no problem with tube, but some people scoff unless you run pipe. For the intercooler piping are you going 2.5in or 3in?

intercooler - while not REQUIRED (seriously, you could run without one, most CT superchargers don't have them), it's cheap insurance for lower intake temps and enough boost to make a difference so do it. You could add to your checklist t-bolt clamps, silicone connectors and a filter for the turbo.

Blow off valve - again not needed, and if I recall needed even less on an auto. Good idea though just to prolong turbo life

Wastegate - definite for any turbo FI install, though it could be an internal wastegate and part of the turbo

oil supply and return install - potentially not needed if using one of Comps oilless turbos, but they are $$$ and rare

boost controller - Personally I am against this - I think one of the number one killers of an FI engine is a boost controller. Boost is addictive - when 10,20, or even 50+ HP can be had with the turn of a knob, it becomes VERY tempting. I prefer to get a spring set to the amount of boost you intend to run and LEAVE it. Everyone has their preference, but I think it is best left alone unless you have LOTS of self restraint.

wideband controller - Again a debatable option. Yes, most people have them, they are good, but I don't like or want one in my car. A drag car, sure? Street car - its not something I want to have to worry about. If the tune is done right, you shouldn't have to watch the wideband all the time. I don't know of a single OEM FI vehicle with one.

Knock control - there are a couple of options here - J&S safeguard is a computer knock monitor and timing retarder, or you could run meth, or you could run E85. I think one of the 3 is probably a good idea, but none are required. Strongly recommended though for sure.

One thing KN didn't mention is exhaust - you probably COULD tie the turbo back to your factory exhaust, so it's not a requirement, but you should. I'd wager a 50+ HP difference alone going from a turbo kit on the stock exhaust to a good 3in or dual 2in even.

What are everyone else's thoughts?

 

While I do agree with others about the whole search feature and the lack of info in the original post, nice write up screamin. This site does have lots of good info but some of the people on here seem to be more hands on, figure it out myself, kind of people. I am not saying that is a bad thing but it is if you just want everything spoon fed to you. It's a good thing if you want to learn, though and that's what I like.

I've done turbo projects before and they are not cheap unless you do it cheap- never do it cheap. Use QUALITY parts if you want it to last, remember, you don't want an oil line blowing off your turbo at full boost or any level boost as a matter of fact.

DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY THE FIRST PART AND PLAN, PLAN, PLAN. I'm all about jumping all in but the last thing you want is to not be able to drive your car for a month because you had to order a part that you forgot. The TL is NOT a car parts are readily available for. I have not turbo'd a TL but I am sure it would be fun but also a pain...

There is a thread on here that is doing a turbo down stream, under the car. Good write up and lots of info.

Good luck to the OP, take plenty of pictures, and write a great thread for eveyone to learn from. Set the example, don't follow!

 

Good List Screaminz28!

My on the subject.

Make sure your car is in flawless working order first and foremost. Check the health of you engine by performing a compression test and leak-down test. I would hate to get everything going only to find out you have an engine that is less then healthy.

Like Screamin mentioned what TL do you have?

04-06 Automatic Trans <- probably more of a headache then it's worth to add FI.
07-08 Automatic Trans <- Flashpro
04-08 Manual Trans <- Good deal!

Do you have E85 avaliable close by? If yes, then you are in good shape for running an internally stock engine at moderate levels...say... 350-400 whp. Only 91 or 93 octane? water/methnaol injection is recommended for an internally stock engine. Running on an internally stock engine is a gamble, it's only a matter of time until something bad happens. For insurance it's advised to get a set of forged pistons with a static compression ratio to fit your goals/available fuel and beefy rods. Sleeve the block if you really want to go nuts and have some peace of mind.

something to monitor knock...

Need a clutch that can handle your new found power, sized according to your HP and TQ levels.

straight cut 3rd and 4th gears are suggested.

Aftermarket motor mounts, stock mounts get eaten up even at the stock power levels.

Did I mention monitoring knock?

Have another car to be your daily driver...with FI there will be issues.

All the above plus screaminz28's &KN_TL's posts if you have the ability to fabricate the turbo plumbing yourself or have the money for someone to make a custom kit for you.

If you are patient... it sounds like RV6 might have a kit in the works... or he's a big tease ....

Whatever you do please share with the forum!

 

I am very serious. I've taken my 07 Tl automatic. From stock to aspec kit, high flow, cat back evo 2 exhaust, cold air intake and lastly Ksport coil overs. In lest then 2months. I am very serious about turbocharged my tl... So if you not posting to help out don't waist my time

 

ORLY? I hadn't heard that. I REALLY hope the hot pipes are offered by themselves. I doubt they will be since that is the big profit center and no one like to pay 2500 bucks for some pipes.

I think a nice set of hot side pipes around the $900 - $1000 that would let me do the rest myself would be PERFECT. Richie, you listening?

I'm still in the planning stages of my setup, and my 'worldview' is MUCH different than most I think. Without going into specifics since it usually results in people dissing, let me just say that I don't need a $1500 turbo on a car I payed $2500 for, and can buy a used motor for $400. Far too many people put stock in the hard parts brand names from what I see.

 

yet, you didnt respond to ANY of the turbo information that was given in this thread.

thanks for telling us how serious you really are.


P.s. Bolt ons doesnt mean you're ready for a turbo.

 

Moar bolt ons

 

Just do it OP. do you have a spare daily driver?
https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...rmance-792266/


Justin crabman replying to your post mean he cares.

 

Number one thing needed is a second and maybe a third job LOL
but on a serious note this gets very expensive make a list of every thing you need price out the parts and if you need help building the system get a cost of labor, I've done a few of these and they always cost way more than you think you can do it for add 35-40% to what you add up and then decide if it is worth it to you (once you have driven a properly boosted car (turbo charged) you will want it at any cost it is amazing totally changes the car from dailey driver to a car you look forward to driving making exucces to go somewere just to feel the surge and hear the sounds of the turbo and blowoff valve

 

Richie has eluded to it a few times. I hope he offers the plumbing kit by itself. With the way the J series exhaust manifold is set-up I think the cost to build will be pretty reasonable compared to a traditional turbo manifold such as K & B series.

Interested to hear what you plan to do for your set-up.

 

I thought i was gonna come here n see parts getting ready for install lmao.... Omg if thats the question the OP has then i hope his pockets are deep lmao

 

that 60-145 video was weak, expected more acceleration

 

Up until 80mph i was impressed.. Rest looked o.k... Still def looked faster than most lol

 

KN and screaminz, i respect you both.
however; did you not see this coming?

 

Looks like it spun 3rd in the video, that thing is moving.

 

That was at 16 psi. I think Bert was running 22-23 psi when once he got things dialed in. I did a few videos and watching them back seem much slower than it felt in person. At 16 psi that car was making 500 + WHP, more than twice the stock WHP. This is a great example of how well the TL handles big power. Can't wait to get my heads swapped over and get back to boost in the TL.

 

That video had about a 10sec 60 - 130. That's pretty dang fast, especially considering how slow he was shifting.

I think most people don't realize how slow videos look after the fact. Years ago when my friends and I were idiots, we used to top out cars on the interstate with regular frequency. 140+ in an ITR looks a LOT slower on a video than it was in the car.

How is your project progressing HiSpeed? Any updates or did you step away from it for a bit?

 

That pppshhhh thoughh

 

As a ref, 60-115 in 10 seconds all motor bolt on accord. I'm 15mph behind, but considering twice the hp im not impressed..

 

We are getting some custom exhaust port castings made. When we make it will be made properly. From the PCDs we learned to over build things. People will always find a way to break it.

 

I have stepped away from my build to save some money and decide on what to do. The rear head might be damaged and I don't want to risk the engine by pushing it hard. My plan is to swap my stock heads on but, I'm conflicted over whether I should swap the KMS valvetrain into the stock heads. The heads on the engine are type-s, so I'm not sure if the valves will fit. The other issue is if it's worth it to swap the valves when I won't be raising the redline. The block is studded, so the engine needs to be dropped to get the rear head off, as far as I can see. If I could pull the heads I would do the valve swap but, with the head swap / machine shop labor plus tuning I need a more compelling reason then the valvetrain is better than stock to swap it.

To the OP or anyone else interested in running boost in the TL, the supercharger is a cheaper and more realistic option. Until someone comes out with another turbo kit, you have the skills to fab the piping yourself or a ton of money and patience to have a custom kit made, it's not going to happen.

My advise is to be realistic with your power goals. The stock engine can handle an additional 150 HP with the clutch being about the same. A lot of the things that make going FI so expensive are the extras that are not needed until going to higher HP levels.
Jumping from 220 WHP to 400 or 500 will require a lot of supporting mods and will be very expensive. Throw a supercharger on a stock engine/cats and take it to 280 WHP will not require much in the way of supporting mods. Free up the exhaust and you gain another 40 HP. This is also a way to see how much you like running boost, before you are 30k deep in mods.

Stock 6 speed = 220 WHP or 40 HP of drivetrain loss.
Stock Auto. = 190-200 WHP or about 60 HP drivetrain loss.
Stock 6 speed/stock cats = 280 WHP or 60 additional HP.
Stock 6 speed/ high flow or cat deletes = 320 WHP
Stock 6 speed/ hi boost pulley = 350 WHP.

Stock 6 speed/ turbo 8 psi = 380-400 WHP
Low comp 6 speed 12-24 psi= 450- the moon.

It seems like everyone goes off the deep end when boost is brought up in a tread and there are cheaper options. A used SC costs about $2500 and can be installed pretty easily while also keeping the car smog legal or easily returnable to smog legal. There are people who say the Comptech SC is undersized and not worth it (mostly people with no first hand experience running one ) but, it's the cheapest and only available form of FI for the TL at the moment. Even if a turbo kit is released the SC will likely still be the cheap and easiest way to boost the TL due to the simplicity.

 

The camera angle messes with it

Solely based off of stock redline and gearing:
3rd is about 91 mph
4th is about 125 mph
5th is about 160 mph

its 145 mph not 130 mph as you suggest he's putting car lengths on you at that speed!


Thank you for chiming in Richie! Your work is top notch Can't wait to see what develops.

 

Watch his vid, at 5 seconds he is hitting 60mph, at 15 seconds hes actually not even doing 130 yet, more like 125. I'm only 10 mph behind. He put a bus on me with a 3rd-4th pull. I would be praising the hell out of my car for sticking that close when he has 250whp advantage.

 

1. He's actually at 55 mph when the timer switches from 4 to 5 seconds.

2. He's spinning through the top half of third (which is insane). How else do you explain the speedo dropping from ~ 88 to 72 mph? That's why he short-shifted fourth a bit early.

3. He's shifting like my grandmother.

4. He goes from ~72 mph to 112mph in 5 seconds, all the while in fourth.

5. Now let's see one of us bolt-on guys start in 4th at 72 mph and see how long 112 takes to come up.

 

Using the accurate YouTube player stop watch and Honda speedos at goofy angles I got.

You:
60 mph at 7 seconds and 120mph at 19 seconds

Turbo TL:
50 mph at 5 seconds hits 125 mph at 15 seconds or top of 4th based off of gearing which is affected by tire diameter.

The turbo TL is rolling into positive manifold pressure in 3rd from 50 mph. It is not already accelerating like the video of yourself. Roll from 3rd at 50 and let me know what happens