Planning on finally installing the TL-S 27mm solid bar today I ended up just removing the stock hollow 24mm bar and driving with no front bar at all. Getting to the rear mounting points and getting that long ass bolt out was a major PITA and I was pretty much spent by the time the stocky was out. Believe me when I tell you that it's very very tight in there haha. So yeah I gave up half way but now I'm glad I did. I don't think the TL-S bar or any bar for that matter is ever going to be installed upfront now.

Here's my experience,

So far I'm liking the feel in corners a lot. Surprisingly not much has changed though in terms of overall driving and safety except for more neutral feel in cornering and less under steer. I believe the TL had too much understeer dialed in the chassis from the factory to save stupid people's asses.

As far as stability, the car still track well in high speed travel, not nervous at all. In emergency maneuvers the car does not misbehave in any way on the contrary it feels more neutral and easier to place.

The rear end is more willing to step out and the torque steer is slightly increased now. Two hands on the wheel and be ready to catch that slide if you overcook a corner or two, haha. The rear end really likes to come around-Comptech sway bar w/Energy bush.

So, I was wondering if anyone else has done it, your experience?!

 

Wow..I wasnt expecting this outcome at all. I remember Kennedy was thinking about replacing his FSB and he said the process was a PITA. Anyone else attempt to even touch the FSB on here?

 

No shit, the subframe needed to be lowered to barely get to the mounting points

 

First – oversteer comes from weight distribution, it is not dialed in. As a matter of fact they are doing everything they know to dial it out. Stiffer front sway bar is part of that effort.

Second – all that theory about soft front sway bar is one big BS.

And third – Feelings are not reliable. That’s why engineers perform hundreds of tests while designing suspension.

 

I am guessing your car is dropped? cuz on my gsr swapped civic the front sway bar I initially had on there couldn't clear the intake mani... so I went without it... atleast a 2" drop all the way around, cornering it sticks to ground...

I wouldn't suggest someone without a drop to go without a front sway bar

 

When you got the bar, did you get the Type-S bushings for the front as well? I have the bar on order, and was looking to do this next weekend. Jason

 

Update-still loving it!

Mishar- I was talking about under not over steer and feelings/observations are all I have to go by. The TL-S FSB is much stiffer being larger and solid. Just sharing my personal experience and thoughts.

Stillhere153- yeah my car is lowered and the suspension is stiff, I guess that helps with having no FSB. The handling is amazing!

Black_05_TL_6SP- the bar didn't come with bushings, I had to order them separately, they are 27mm TL-S rubber bushings, I believe they are like $5 each delivered. You don't need new bushing mounts/brackets though, your originals will fit.

 

Seems like an interesting mod. I wonder how it would perform on the track.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACTROS

Update-still loving it!

Well, I was talking about understeer too, I just used wrong word. Sorry.

You can use some common sense besides feelings. Honda engineers with a pile of diplomas and about 5000 years of common experience, including few centuries of F1 experience, all possible test equipment and facilities and as many cars to test as they need, including crash tests, are putting stiffer front sway bar on their newest sport inclined TL and you just found that they actually can save some money and weight just loosing front sway bar all together. Isn’t that a bit too ambitious?

 

I have mine for 2 months already,i feel more solid than the AT(25.2mm) and mine is a 6MT(27.2) and only 2mm bigger will not effect the understeering so everyone dont have to worry about since the MT have 27.2mm(stock) so I think is a good upgrade for the our 5AT

 

Right, the 04-06 A/T TL has a 25.4mm hollow FSB, please excuse me I said it was a 24mm bar, whereas 6SPD TL has 27.2mm hollow FSB.

The 2007+ TL-S has a 27mm solid FSB, much stiffer than any model before, that's what I wanted to install in the first place but ended up w/o any FSB at all and I'm glad I ended up that way.

 

how much was the FSB? Where did u purchase it? From dealer?

 

i still dont know about this. i mean ya, i know that a thicker FSB will induce more understeer, but does that necessarily mean that removing it all together will take care of understeer a great amount?

now with removing it, does that mean that the suspension can flex more and have better handling on turns....

isn't the point of having a FSB to help keep everything balanced on an even slope?

i just don't know the logistics. interesting theory tho.

it's funny how the OP keeps saying that removing the FSB all together is good for the car but yet there have been several comments showing interest in purchasing a thicker bar.

 

Yes there is still a great deal of undesteer present, it's a safety feature in modern cars, FSB or not. What has changed with the FSB delete is that the front end loosened up a bit, just enough to be playful not as controlling and stiff. The weight transfer has shifted rearward. With the FSB intact the front end was fighting my inputs, pushing-read undesteering.

I'm trying to explain as best I can in my own words my personal experience. I do not advocate this mod, it is not for everyone I guess. Yes initially I was going to install stiffer yet FSB but ended up giving up half way on that project. I know it's ironic but hey... I just happen to like the way the car handles w/o FSB, once I'm done with this I'll try the TL-S FSB with Energy bushings. Remember, if you don't try, you'll never know. To my knowledge this hasn't been done yet, on the TL. This is exactly what I'm doing, trying and experimenting, it's not the end of the world so some of you need to come down and enjoy the ride with me, let's see what happens! I'm just being curious!!!

 

acuraoemparts.com

I recall it was about $70 shipped!

 

I forget to add that I appreciate everyone's feedback! I'm interested to hear your pros and cons of this mod, your argument!

I ask not to get overly nervous, this mod isn't dangerous or life threatening as far as I can tell.

 

Does the car sway more (have more body roll) without the FSB ?

 

I got a 06 or 05 and I think i got it from unlimitedhondaparts.com MT FSB and is shown 27.2mm on the side of the bushing and why im so sure about this is cause I want to get energy bushing for my new FSB but too bad they dont have 27.2mm only 27mm, but .2mm i dont think it make any different

well iff people have progress RSB(24mm) for their 5AT I recommend people upgrade their 25.2 to 27.2 or 27 it will make the car more balance and about understeering issue if you guy want to avoid that go a bit over speed in the corner and 1/2gas exiting for corner,I forgot bad is the stock is but on my current setup I dont feel that much of understeering.(maybe i drive slow)

 

oh just checked you have a S/C so i guess you will have a big time understeering than.

 

Hey George...

Listen, your feelings are not unsubstantiated.

I've spent hours on the phone with Dick Shine, who runs Shine Racing, a SERIOUS VW autocross outfit out of Mass. They're Bilstien shock/custom Spring/custom Swaybar setup is the one TO HAVE for a VW to handle like a race car. I had it o my old VW Jetta.

Anyway, thier guidance for tracking was big back bar (which came with the kit), then remove the front bar (or at a minimum install the thinner bar from the AT Jetta). My Jetta drove on rails.

Granted, I recognize the MKIV VW use Mcpherson front, traling arm rear vs. Double wish/multlink... but I figure the principals are the same.

I look forward to your feedback.

 

The 05-06 6MT is different then the 07 type-S 6MT. They are the same thickness, but the Type-S is a solid bar vs the 05-06 6MT hollow bar.

 

so you are saying in your front wheel drive Jetta, you had a positive response and some experts have noted this as a good idea?

is there any risk of structural integrity with removing the bar?

 

Street cars are set up from the factory to understeer. This is a well known fact. Most people freak out when the tail kicks out and usually end up spinning. Understeer is considered safe. Personally I hate understeer and feel much safer and in control with the rear sliding. I have never looked at the specs on the TL-S but would bet there's a stiffer rear bar or springs to match the bigger front bar. It's a balancing act. Didn't know F1 or Honda has been around for centuries...

This is not rocket science.
Stiffer front suspension=understeer.
Stiffer rear=oversteer.
Bigger swaybars=less independance.
Best combo=Stiff springs and small bars.

Taking his swaybar off took some of the load off of the front suspension making it a little more tail happy. It's kind of the same as adding a larger rear bar.

Did anyone notice his car is lowered with stiffer springs already?

If I ever modify mine, I'm going to start with the springs and stock bars and if a little "tuning" is needed to make it neutral I might change one of the bars slightly.

 

The old and busted and the new already scratched haha

 

I would talk to accuratln. I remember reading where he had removed the fsb and his windshield cracked a few times.

if the FSB isnt absorbing all that tension and stress, I can only imagine your body frame is. Hopefully your structural integrity hasnt been compromised.

 

Inaccurate- I feel a little more front end sway, but we all know how unscientific our feeling really are.

KenUA6- Why didn't you get the TL-S bar, it's the stiffest of 'em all, the MT bar although larger is still hollow. My plan WAS to get the Progress rear bar later on to compliment the larger front bar.

Kennedy- hey what an interesting piece of info, sounds familiar, I read that somewhere before. I say car dynamics is car dynamics no matter the suspension design the basic techniques used to improve handling is good for any car VW or Acura. I appreciate your encouragement.

I hate Cars- thank you man, well said, it's all in the balance!

 

Leedogg I think you are confusing the tower bar with the sway bar. One sits on top of the left and right suspension banks in the engine bay and the latter connects the left and right struts underneath the motor.

Speaking of the tower bar, I was driving w/o one for quite long on NYC piece of shit roads with no problems, the windshield is still like new-uncracked.

Not really worrying about the structural integrity, the front subframe is a super strong hydroformed aluminum structure. The frame is made of high density super strong steel alloys.

 

so it ok to drive without the front strut bar.

 

I didn't realize you busted it. Now you've got me thinking. What made you look for a busted swaybar? I've thought about this on my car. I swear, one day it had more bodyroll and when I've taken it to the limit, it's very easy to get the tail out. Now you've got me wondering.

 

^LOL no bro it didn't get busted like that on its own, I made that cut when I couldn't get it out. Even though it's hollow the bar is very tight, strong and light. It would never snap on it's own, no way. That other bar weighs about twice as much, it isn't much larger but it is solid.

 

Thanks. I was just looking for my flashlight to go and check lol.

 

 

They must be if you feel front sway. Like body is not rigid enough so front can sway all by itself.

 

well actuelly I bought the FSB when the TLS is not even out yet but I didnt know the MT one is hillow cause the bar is heavy as hell

 

what about just upgrading the bushings to the stock bar?

 

Oh you're right, I was thinking of that strut bar on top, not the sway bar below.

 

Have been busy lately and racked up close to a thousand miles sans FSB. I still love the change in dynamics and wouldn't go back to FSB!

The naysayers should try this mod, see for yourselves, you just might like it too

 

Yes... That is exactly what I'm saying.

No. but dynamics are completely changed. You really need to get somewhere safe and puch the car to feel how the change affect the car.

 

^I wouldn't go as far as to say that the dynamics has radically changed, at least in my case it didn't, the car still safely understeers at the limit and the front end is still stiff enough not to feel twitchy or that it's plowing in corners. The TL std factory characteristics remain but to a lesser degree.

Everyone should keep in mind though that my car is modified with stiffer shocks, springs and fatter softer tires. I would imagine the delete of the FSB on a stock car would bring out a somewhat different result, maybe even an unsafe one in the hands of the inexperienced driver. You've been warned!

In a parking lot tests I did not find it any harder to control the car at normal speeds or at the limit, on the contrary the car rotates better and overall is easier to drive aggressively. At low speeds you'll feel no change in dynamics, only as the speed increases and you start pushing the car you'll feel a more neutral handling w/ a hint of rear rotation.

This is my personal conclusion from the everyday street, highway and parking lot testing! Your mileage may vary!