Dyno results
10-23-2009, 01:12 AM
#161
This is what I posted in another thread about dynos and which one in my opinion are more accurate and how you should do them. Just like Opel said, our cars would be 4th gear because of the rev governor. Now if the rev governor was taken off, the best 1:1 ratio would be possibly 5th gear (depending on other conditions also).
There are 2 main types of dyno, retarder dynos and inertia dynos. Inertia dynos use heavy rollers of a known mass. The wheel power of the car is used to accelerate the rollers as fast as possible. Given that the mass of the rollers is known, force = mass x acceleration allows you measure the rate of acceleration an thus calculate the force.
The 2nd type of dyno is a retarder dyno. A retarder dyno uses a non contact eddy current brake to retard a light roller with little inertia. The dyno system allows the rollers to accelerate at a fixed rate when the power of the car is applied to them. This means if you dyno a 100bhp car, or a 1000bhp car, the acceleration rate is constant. A retarder dyno uses a load cell to calculate the tractive effort at the roller surface.
Personally i much prefer retarder dynos. Dyno Dynamics, Mustang (new ones- old skool are inertia iirc), Mainline dyno log, and Land and Sea etc are retarder dynos. Maha, Hoffman, Dynojet etc are inertia.
An inertia dyno is very dependant upon gear ratio. You need to run the car as close to 1:1 a possible. If you dont and say you run the car with a mechanical gearing advantage, say in like 2nd gear, the car will accelerate very fast, the rollers will accelerate very quickly due to the mechanical advantage of the gearing, and a huge power figure will be read. This means that the power number can be 'frigged' up or down by gear selection. Additionally, most inertia dynos calculate transmission loss via a coast down method. Lets say the test has been conducted in as close as 1:1 gear as possible, so the 'wheels' figure is as realistic as possible, however, then it can all get a bit sketchy. Irrespective of any debate about accuracy of coast down method, what happens if the operator does the coast down with the handbrake applied, or even the foot brake? You get a mahoosive flywheel number.
Retarder dynos use direct measurement (via the load cell) and a controlled acceleration rate and most use modelling to transfer from wheel power to flywheel power, as opposed to coast down.
There are 2 main types of dyno, retarder dynos and inertia dynos. Inertia dynos use heavy rollers of a known mass. The wheel power of the car is used to accelerate the rollers as fast as possible. Given that the mass of the rollers is known, force = mass x acceleration allows you measure the rate of acceleration an thus calculate the force.
The 2nd type of dyno is a retarder dyno. A retarder dyno uses a non contact eddy current brake to retard a light roller with little inertia. The dyno system allows the rollers to accelerate at a fixed rate when the power of the car is applied to them. This means if you dyno a 100bhp car, or a 1000bhp car, the acceleration rate is constant. A retarder dyno uses a load cell to calculate the tractive effort at the roller surface.
Personally i much prefer retarder dynos. Dyno Dynamics, Mustang (new ones- old skool are inertia iirc), Mainline dyno log, and Land and Sea etc are retarder dynos. Maha, Hoffman, Dynojet etc are inertia.
An inertia dyno is very dependant upon gear ratio. You need to run the car as close to 1:1 a possible. If you dont and say you run the car with a mechanical gearing advantage, say in like 2nd gear, the car will accelerate very fast, the rollers will accelerate very quickly due to the mechanical advantage of the gearing, and a huge power figure will be read. This means that the power number can be 'frigged' up or down by gear selection. Additionally, most inertia dynos calculate transmission loss via a coast down method. Lets say the test has been conducted in as close as 1:1 gear as possible, so the 'wheels' figure is as realistic as possible, however, then it can all get a bit sketchy. Irrespective of any debate about accuracy of coast down method, what happens if the operator does the coast down with the handbrake applied, or even the foot brake? You get a mahoosive flywheel number.
Retarder dynos use direct measurement (via the load cell) and a controlled acceleration rate and most use modelling to transfer from wheel power to flywheel power, as opposed to coast down.
10-23-2009, 01:22 AM
#162
What the OP did not understand and never replied too is that his dyno was uncorrected and that he assume that if he mistakenly pulled in 3rd gear for the dyno that if he was too pull in 4th gear it would be higher (HP wise). Very untrue, the HP in 3rd gear will fluctuate between each test especially on a uncorrected dyno. Not only is it not taking in consideration of weather conditions, it is not being close to the 1:1 ratio. This will fluctuate to more or less to what you get each dyno.
btw, opel free your pm box !
btw, opel free your pm box !
lol
10-23-2009, 01:30 AM
#164
Sometimes when I try to PM you or IHC, both of your inboxes are always full, you guys must have fun answering people's question over and over
IHC has been inactive lately though, hope he's doing ok with his friend passing. He would have definitely had a little fun with this thread also
When are you going to post videos and pictures of your car!
10-23-2009, 01:56 AM
#165
Three Wheelin'
haha good
Sometimes when I try to PM you or IHC, both of your inboxes are always full, you guys must have fun answering people's question over and over
IHC has been inactive lately though, hope he's doing ok with his friend passing. He would have definitely had a little fun with this thread also
When are you going to post videos and pictures of your car!
Sometimes when I try to PM you or IHC, both of your inboxes are always full, you guys must have fun answering people's question over and over
IHC has been inactive lately though, hope he's doing ok with his friend passing. He would have definitely had a little fun with this thread also
When are you going to post videos and pictures of your car!
ill post pics and vids in a while...
if only shit like this vvvv could stop lol
and the oil strainer too, crushed and bent
10-23-2009, 05:11 AM
#166
Damn Opel how slammed are you? Looking at you frame rails, LOL. Do you need me to make you a pan out of stainless? You do have about of inch of height to play with in your bay and could add some spacers and longer bolts to your mounts to pull the pan up off the ground a bit. And the SS pan is not BS I have been looking at ways to increase pan size to get another qt of oil in these engines.
Last edited by NVA-AV6; 10-23-2009 at 05:15 AM.
10-23-2009, 12:15 PM
#170
Three Wheelin'
Damn Opel how slammed are you? Looking at you frame rails, LOL. Do you need me to make you a pan out of stainless? You do have about of inch of height to play with in your bay and could add some spacers and longer bolts to your mounts to pull the pan up off the ground a bit. And the SS pan is not BS I have been looking at ways to increase pan size to get another qt of oil in these engines.
i will need something from you eventually, so i will get to you when time comes
10-23-2009, 12:17 PM
#171
Three Wheelin'
you mean a stock jpipe? its ok man, i think im good for now, but thank you bro .
the car's up and running as we speak..i was down for only few days..happened saturday night, wednesday had it running.
and to answer the turbo question...im in NYC but no turbo as of now lol. not sure about anyone else from here
.the car's up and running as we speak..i was down for only few days..happened saturday night, wednesday had it running.
and to answer the turbo question...im in NYC but no turbo as of now lol. not sure about anyone else from here
10-23-2009, 03:58 PM
#173
damn bro... thats serious!! i was slammed on both my 3Gs too... but i tried to avoid NYC/Boroughs as much as possible... i did smack the shit outta my jpipe and frame rails..
the good thing, the ATLP j-pipe hung lower then the oil pan, so it was almost like a guard rail to help prevent that from happening
the good thing, the ATLP j-pipe hung lower then the oil pan, so it was almost like a guard rail to help prevent that from happening
10-23-2009, 03:59 PM
#174
i asked him to pop the hood, but unfortunately, the hood latch was "broken" that day.. so he couldnt
10-23-2009, 06:15 PM
#175
Three Wheelin'
i used to bump into those kids everyday...and the ones u race and ask them what they're running..and they say "chipped"
i just started ignoring them.
but here's the interesting part...next time you have the same experience....ask them a really deep technical question...and see how they respond.
its funny when they approach you with this " rocket science attitude" not knowing they're up against someone who knows their own car better than they do lol
10-23-2009, 07:54 PM
#178
Three Wheelin'
thats why i keep a cookie and lolly pop box in the car...i hand them out to the kids for their accomplishments lol
10-23-2009, 08:08 PM
#179
i hate people that feel the need to compulsively lie... especially when you call them out, and they insist they are telling the truth... they even get ANGRY for you not believing themmeanwhile I had a TL-S that sounds like a Monster, with like $10k worth of work on it.... but im wrong, his TL came special with Headers!!!
10-23-2009, 08:14 PM
#180
I just read through all of these pages and I wonder why the mods let this go on for so long. This yahoo is going to come back from his vacation and will be right back at it. No matter what you guys said, he didn't take any of it as constructive. What a waste.
IHC is missing from this discussion. I hope he's doing ok.
IHC is missing from this discussion. I hope he's doing ok.
10-23-2009, 09:10 PM
#182
Three Wheelin'
10-23-2009, 09:23 PM
#183
I hope this ban will discourage this guy from coming back, but I doubt it.
10-25-2009, 03:32 PM
#184
Team Owner
I don't want to bash the OP or offend anyone here... But your tuner's choice to start with a Civic as the basis for a hotrod makes me question his intelligence. Many better and cheaper platforms to start with.
What exactly is he "tuning"? Timing is pretty much maxed out for 91 octane in factory form unless you're running a 100 octane tune. AF is usually on the lean (power) side too. In a NA car, what else is he "tuning"? Again, only an aggressive race gas tune will get you close to these numbers NA and even then it's very, very doubtful.
What exactly is he "tuning"? Timing is pretty much maxed out for 91 octane in factory form unless you're running a 100 octane tune. AF is usually on the lean (power) side too. In a NA car, what else is he "tuning"? Again, only an aggressive race gas tune will get you close to these numbers NA and even then it's very, very doubtful.
10-25-2009, 10:49 PM
#185
I don't want to bash the OP or offend anyone here... But your tuner's choice to start with a Civic as the basis for a hotrod makes me question his intelligence. Many better and cheaper platforms to start with.
What exactly is he "tuning"? Timing is pretty much maxed out for 91 octane in factory form unless you're running a 100 octane tune. AF is usually on the lean (power) side too. In a NA car, what else is he "tuning"? Again, only an aggressive race gas tune will get you close to these numbers NA and even then it's very, very doubtful.
What exactly is he "tuning"? Timing is pretty much maxed out for 91 octane in factory form unless you're running a 100 octane tune. AF is usually on the lean (power) side too. In a NA car, what else is he "tuning"? Again, only an aggressive race gas tune will get you close to these numbers NA and even then it's very, very doubtful.
10-25-2009, 11:32 PM
#186
yes, pretty much...just gave a broader explanation...1:1 ratio would mean...at 155 mph, you're on the redline whatever that gear is that's 1:1
it would be sweet if speed governor was removed, and let the speedo climb til 5th gear hits redline...i think it would go to about 165 mph or so...but that way you'd get an even more accurate whp reading
it would be sweet if speed governor was removed, and let the speedo climb til 5th gear hits redline...i think it would go to about 165 mph or so...but that way you'd get an even more accurate whp reading
im going back to the dyno. 2nd gens dont have a speed limiter
10-25-2009, 11:46 PM
#188
Team Owner
10-26-2009, 12:18 AM
#189
Three Wheelin'
no fuel cut? lol, u sure? if its drag limited...based on the dyno load, if youre power isnt sufficient enough to bring Rpms to redline on a high gear, u may never see a full rev band graph...even still with the lack of drag/wind resistance on the dyno.... tell me the gear rations of the 2nd gen..too lazy to search, ill tell ya what gear u could do it on
10-26-2009, 12:22 AM
#190
Three Wheelin'
10-26-2009, 08:59 AM
#194
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Nah i gave up with u people and news update i made the 300WHP by the way .... but since i got banned for no real reason cuz im not the one who got mad and started name calling im not going to post anything else ......
10-26-2009, 10:39 AM
#195
Nobody was name calling, everybody was disagreeing you, you never listened, you just kept ignoring everyone's opinion. Nonetheless, if you don't have proof of anything, SAE corrected dyno, lap times, or anything, no need to post anything regarding this topic.
10-26-2009, 10:42 AM
#196
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Y do i have to take ur or anyones opinion ? just tell me y i mean i made more power again with the pre-cat deletes im over the 300WHP and its SAE....u people are making less power then me y would i take ur opinion ? specialy u u have nothing not even a type s u no what i mean comeon dude but anyway im done posting or showing anything to you or anyone else ..... have a good day man i dont wanna get banned for something u people did not me ......
10-26-2009, 10:48 AM
#198
Y do i have to take ur or anyones opinion ? just tell me y i mean i made more power again with the pre-cat deletes im over the 300WHP and its SAE....u people are making less power then me y would i take ur opinion ? specialy u u have nothing not even a type s u no what i mean comeon dude but anyway im done posting or showing anything to you or anyone else ..... have a good day man i dont wanna get banned for something u people did not me ......
10-26-2009, 10:53 AM
#200
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ill be at E-Town next weekend with my nittos 555r on will c what happens