I was looking into ordering a set of PCDs but ive heard from a few friends who use to have or still do have TLs about PCDs robbing your torque. Most of them recommended going w/ jpipe catback and 3rd cat delete. Can anyone confirm gains or losses using PCD regardless of which company you got them from.

Thanks

 

Weird, your previous posts seem like you know what PCD's do.

Stock:
Pre-cats--> J-pipe--> 3rd-cat-->resonators/mufflers.

Modded(your setup):
PCD's--> V3 j-pipe-->xlr8
straight pipe--> better engineered jpipe with no cat-->xlr8

Now, you tell me.

Check this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/do-i-want-pcds-no-793971/

 

so is that a yes or a no?

 

 

i mean unless i missed something i see the HP gains but no talk about the torque. I will read over it again.

 

That is actually my only concern with the pcd. I never really push my car that often but really enjoy the peppiness from some of the other mods I did which actually added some torque. I wouldn't mind the top end of the pcd if it doesn't affect the torque in a negative way. Unfortunatelly I've heard different!

 

I think there may be a loss in low end, but from what I hear the car should pull very well in the mid-high range.

 

I added the PCD'S and I'm burning out like a high school kid.... "with or without the VSA engaged..... Butt dyno loves it!!!

 

Use the search feature.

No loss in low end. Maybe in a 2-stroke but very rarely in a street car is it possible to lose torque. In fact, I think it gains torque everywhere on the tach. Remember, this is a vtec engine with a small "cam" and large car and a 2-stage intake manifold. You really don't have to worry about losing low end.

 

No, PCD will not rob torque....there's a change in power band, thats it. Any reduction in exhaust back pressure will result in a shifted power band, but no loss of power.

Running open heads will make you most of the power you can get out of the exhaust, but
you prob won't feel the torque up until around 3k RPM or even higher.

 

IHC beat me to it lol

 

^^Perfect explanation! I have PCDs and I don't "feel" the power until after about 4k rpms.

 

Get them. I will repeat what's already been said when I say that the PCDs shift the powerband upward. Get them. If you were to race someone in your EXACT same TL with your clone driving, leaving at precisely the exact same time, and everything else identical, the car with PCDs would start pulling around 3-3.5k from a low roll. Get them. Once you get to highway speeds it really won't be much of a race anymore. Get them.

Idk if you noticed, but I left you a couple subliminal messages.

 

^Well said sonnick haha the highway power is intoxicating!

 

Getting them and Installing them are two different things....I still need to do the later

 

U lose Torque if u just install but u can gain it if u tune it ......put it on the dyno and tune it with the apexi... never just install something and leave it b ... always tune after a mod ......

 

^ people are tuning now? i was under the impression that tuning was essentially impossible? but meh, what do i know? i sold the TL with the PCDs on. great investment. if you're concerned about TQ, get the manifold spacer. a little "ghetto" for some, but it sure as heck worked its magic!

 

You don't lose torque at all and there's not much in the way of tuning until you go FI.

The power band gets shifted slightly upward....but you don't lose anything at low rpms. In fact, I think you gain everywhere but the noticable gains don't start until 3,500rpm.

 

Actually, I think the NA tuning issue has been resolved to a degree. It may not be perfect thus far, but it definitely shows gains. He hasn't gotten his car dyno'd yet, but it's a 5AT with CAI/Jpipe/3in exhaust and I'm not sure whether PCDs or not. He has a video on the page and it moves with the tune. It's no regular 5AT that's for damn sure.

http://www..net/forums/showthread.php?t=201181&page=4

 

I said that completely wrong. What I meant to say is it's really not that worth it to do a tune on the NA TL. I'm sure in some instances it is if you're trying to get every little extra. If it were widely available, I would proabably do a 100 octane tune with a little extra timing and fuel.

 

He's back!

How did that 300 WHP tune go with no mods?

 

Definitely no loss in torque. I read all about people saying that. So after i installed i was anticipating a huge gain up top. I didn't notice the gain up top because i felt it down low and it continued the whole way through the powerband. Awesome mod.

 

awesome thats the kind of feedback i was looking for.

 

just ask the dude that makes the turbo for the TL he was there im sure he seen my dyno sheets....
He uses the same dyno i do

 

once u remove a cat u will lose touque.....its easy to find out... dyno the car b4 the mod and after the mod and you will the the difference in the tourque

here is what happens without a tune :
Removing or bypassing a catalytic converter may interfere with emission laws in some jurisdictions.
An increase in noticeable noxious fumes may result (particularly when the catalytic converter is removed or bypassed, and/or when exhaust outlets are rerouted to the side of the car as with side-exit exhausts).
Engine sound may be more noticeable to both driver and pedestrians, resulting in increased noise pollution.
An incorrectly designed exhaust can cause loss of low-RPM torque, and a decrease in fuel economy.
Some modifications can void factory warranties.

 

I don't see how you can say that PCD could possibly lose torque. Now if you only have PCD without a cat-back or a unrestricted J-pipe, than I can see it happening because of the back pressure. Even then, you're not really losing torque.

Also if you have the dyno sheet, why don't you show it to us? Just curious.

 

my opinion is do the precat deletes add high flow cat and catback

i did post it up .....

 

It's been done already. No loss in torque.

 

i still think ur wrong bout the precat if u take out all cats from the car u will lose tourque believe me thats why people use high flow cats instead ..... remember u lose back pressure u lose tourque in any NA car .....

 

Are you seriously gonna start another heavy debate on this, like you did some time back with your apexi and 300whp thing with no mods?

I don't think you understand the relations between velocity, flow and scavenging in exhaust.

It is entirely false that increase in backpressure increases torque. It can't! Which is what you suggest.

And aside from this, what is there to tune? Especially on an engine that's been stated to death about its detonation by not one, but many members. Now that I mentioned it, I seriously question whether you know what detonation is to begin with.

 

Although I cant vouch for seeing the dyno sheets, I can say that I was at clm motorsports when my car was getting dyno'd after the turbo install and I met the guy that owns the shop who installed the apexi on TL-S121's car.

Cunha (shop owner) knows his shit and if Cunha installed the apexi neo I would have to say it works. Didnt see the HP numbers though

This car was at the shop that night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQe9rxd8qeM

 

You met him, but did you ask about it? If he actually did get it tuned, I don't see why a dyno sheet cannot be posted.

 

There were no specific details about the tune itself (he was working on a motor at the time) but more along the lines of "yea it was installed and tuned and made xxxhp." I cant remember the number

TL-S121, next time you goto the shop pull up the dyno sheet on the big ass tv he was on the wall and take a picture

 

libert69 hows the car doing did u get a different tune or it still making same power ?

 

Opel to you nothing is possible ..... like installing apexi neo and beeing able to tune it not possible everyone was saying the same thing but guess what i got it installed tunned and i made power with it .......but now will c the big difference im installing pre-cat deletes and tunning again will c what happens with a aem intake pulley precat deletes and custom exhaust .....

 

No, no, no! Not even close. You NEVER lose torque from freeing up the exhaust.

People use high flow cats when they don't like the smell or they want to be somewhat emissions compliant.

 

U always lose tourque when u remove cats always man

 

One party says yes, the other says no.

Where's the proof? show us your claims, and explain why.
This yes/no bs is pointless.


*edit
TL-S121 before you put on your custom Precat delete, do a dyno before and after.

 

Will do .....

 

HP is a function of TQ buddy.