DIY turbo idea for cheap? LOL
#41
Burning Brakes
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I don't think it really matters which route you go in for practical matters. If this were a race motor, money no object, you could tailor it to your hearts desire, but I'd think you would focus on a. feasibility and b .cost.
If you have the ability to tig weld and want to invest the time and effort into a setup like Utah's, then definitely go for it. I agree with Matt and I do like the cast piece off the head as well, which is what ultimately led me to purchase a set of PCDs. Now, I will use the prank racing flanges that connect to the PCDs, create a y pipe that will route to where the turbo will sit, and we're off to the races so to speak, lol.
All this discussion may just prompt me to start my build sooner rather than later. The wife will have to wait for more mods to her truck, lol. Now my concern would be sharing pics of my terrible welding skills, lol.
If you have the ability to tig weld and want to invest the time and effort into a setup like Utah's, then definitely go for it. I agree with Matt and I do like the cast piece off the head as well, which is what ultimately led me to purchase a set of PCDs. Now, I will use the prank racing flanges that connect to the PCDs, create a y pipe that will route to where the turbo will sit, and we're off to the races so to speak, lol.
All this discussion may just prompt me to start my build sooner rather than later. The wife will have to wait for more mods to her truck, lol. Now my concern would be sharing pics of my terrible welding skills, lol.
#44
Team Owner
I was also looking at ceramic coating vs warping, but that is for later on. Just wanted to have this here for reference since I forgot who does the coating.
White Lightning Exhaust Coatings | Swain Tech Coatings | Industrial Coatings | High Performance Racing Coatings
$40/foot approx.
White Lightning Exhaust Coatings | Swain Tech Coatings | Industrial Coatings | High Performance Racing Coatings
$40/foot approx.
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#46
J-series addict
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I've done both, separately and together and there's no comparison. Wrap will keep the heat in much, much better and lower underhood temps significantly. I coated my mild steel headers so they didn't rust but that was all the use I had. Back in the old days I did headers, turbo, and downpipe. It looked good but served no functional purpose.
There's very little difference in regards to thermal management between coatings and wraps. I've done both to nearly all hot side components on my turbo setup. First they were all wrapped. Then the wrap came off for ceramic coatings. Then rewrapped again. I honestly believe the wrap does a better job at retaining heat than coating does which is why I wrapped them again after having them coated. Above this, heat shield in certain high temperature areas was the second best thing I did. Especially around large/solid components such as the turbo itself. That thing was like a miniature sun after runs, lol.
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thisaznboi88 (05-30-2015)
#47
Burning Brakes
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LOL your comment reminds me of a buddy's old Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. When we were stupid kids we all used to blister the highways at 130+ all the time. After doing it in his car, we pulled off the side of the road and even in the pitch black dark of night, you could see the turbo glowing red hot - every single part was visible. Tiny turbo FTW!
#48
Team Owner
We were coming back from a party in my friends GN back when we were about 18 and the cigarette lighter was broken. With him fiending for a cigarette I powerbraked it until the turbo glowed. That wouldn't light the cigarette so we began doing donuts at full throttle in 3rd gear with the speedo buried. The turbo still wouldn't light it even though it looked like it was transparent but the headers did.
When mine is set for 30psi on race gas, I can make a low 10sec pass, pick up the time slip, drive it easy back in line and the turbo would still be glowing pretty bright. The big turbos definitely glow for longer.
Once when I had my timing backed all the way off during some tuning to get the turbo to spool quicker, my headers were glowing at idle. At 3,000rpm and only 10psi I was sure the headers were going to melt to the ground. That's when I began learning that EGTs are safer on race gas with high boost but proper (more advanced) timing than pump gas, moderate boost, and low timing.
Another one of my quick spool experiments had blue flame continuously coming out of both exhaust pipes on deceleration. This was the only time everything was glowing from the headers to halfway to the rear of the car. I noticed it once after I pulled over after an impromptu run with no street lights and saw the ground glowing under the car. I'm glad the car had Inconel exhaust valves because I abused the whole exhaust system badly back in the day.
When mine is set for 30psi on race gas, I can make a low 10sec pass, pick up the time slip, drive it easy back in line and the turbo would still be glowing pretty bright. The big turbos definitely glow for longer.
Once when I had my timing backed all the way off during some tuning to get the turbo to spool quicker, my headers were glowing at idle. At 3,000rpm and only 10psi I was sure the headers were going to melt to the ground. That's when I began learning that EGTs are safer on race gas with high boost but proper (more advanced) timing than pump gas, moderate boost, and low timing.
Another one of my quick spool experiments had blue flame continuously coming out of both exhaust pipes on deceleration. This was the only time everything was glowing from the headers to halfway to the rear of the car. I noticed it once after I pulled over after an impromptu run with no street lights and saw the ground glowing under the car. I'm glad the car had Inconel exhaust valves because I abused the whole exhaust system badly back in the day.
#49
J-series addict
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LOL your comment reminds me of a buddy's old Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. When we were stupid kids we all used to blister the highways at 130+ all the time. After doing it in his car, we pulled off the side of the road and even in the pitch black dark of night, you could see the turbo glowing red hot - every single part was visible. Tiny turbo FTW!
It probably didn't help my situation that I was running some very crazy ignition maps on my overrun either. Friends were telling me I'd get some pretty crazy blue flames out the back between shifts. And mind you I run an auto which requires massive retard to see any fire at those shift speeds. Love it...
#51
Ive pondered doing a borg warner setup. If i do infact try this build i want mines no more than $3000 total. Anything more and i lost all interest.
Same as op 400whp tops is what i want
Same as op 400whp tops is what i want
Last edited by Grand_hustle17; 06-01-2015 at 08:34 PM.
#52
Burning Brakes
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3K OTD is hard when using brand name parts. If you could use an ebay turbo or even an older Holset - you could easily do it. Dropping 800 to a grand on the turbo really takes a chunk out fo the budget.
I need to look at the compressor maps on something like a holset HX35 - that might work.
I need to look at the compressor maps on something like a holset HX35 - that might work.
#53
I was browsing ebay. Now what was the issue with a t3 gt35 again?.. Seen some one ebay for $270
#55
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Also a lot of people when switching from ebay turbo to a brand name turbo notice better spool, response, and make more power at the same PSI.
@richardparker
I agree they look pretty clean. This guy popped out of no where yesterday on v6p and has some boss looking build, but on a crappy j30a1 motor.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 06-02-2015 at 11:41 AM.
#57
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here is new borg warner turbo for 600. its a little on the larger size.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151634004975?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151634004975?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
#58
Team Owner
You would be miserable with that thing. It would be more at home on a larger engine or a diesel.
#59
Burning Brakes
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Looking at a compressor map for that turbo, it looks like it would be right where you want it to be for a J32, depending on your HP goal - for 400whp, you'd just be getting into PRs that would be where it likes.
EDIT - lol, IHC, you posted right before me. Could you elaborate why that would be so bad? Looking at a compressor map for it, it looks to be right in the middle of the efficiency island with a 1.9PR and 45lb/min. Is it the .88 A/R that makes it too big?
It looks like a 75lb/min turbo which seems about right.
EDIT - lol, IHC, you posted right before me. Could you elaborate why that would be so bad? Looking at a compressor map for it, it looks to be right in the middle of the efficiency island with a 1.9PR and 45lb/min. Is it the .88 A/R that makes it too big?
It looks like a 75lb/min turbo which seems about right.
Last edited by screaminz28; 06-02-2015 at 05:58 PM. Reason: saw another post.
#60
Team Owner
Looking at a compressor map for that turbo, it looks like it would be right where you want it to be for a J32, depending on your HP goal - for 400whp, you'd just be getting into PRs that would be where it likes.
EDIT - lol, IHC, you posted right before me. Could you elaborate why that would be so bad? Looking at a compressor map for it, it looks to be right in the middle of the efficiency island with a 1.9PR and 45lb/min. Is it the .88 A/R that makes it too big?
It looks like a 75lb/min turbo which seems about right.
EDIT - lol, IHC, you posted right before me. Could you elaborate why that would be so bad? Looking at a compressor map for it, it looks to be right in the middle of the efficiency island with a 1.9PR and 45lb/min. Is it the .88 A/R that makes it too big?
It looks like a 75lb/min turbo which seems about right.
There was a time when people would try a bigger AR to gain a little more from their combo without spending too much. The general consensus is the bigger ARs work with bigger engines to keep back pressure under control. There are some instances of very high boost >30psi setups that benefit from the bigger nozzle but for the most part .63 works great for anything in the 3l range.
I tried one of PTE's special turbine castings that supposedly gave the top end power of a .82 and the spool of a .63. That was not the case by a mile. I ended up putting a turbine blade through that cast iron housing and putting a dent in the heat shield . Up until then I did not know that could happen but I was glad it did.
There are ways to make just about any turbo spool near instant using just engine management with no additional hardware or cost but it depends on how much whatever management you're using will let you do. It's something I do for people for free but I don't share how I do it. It takes a good day and it has to be done on the street and not the dyno. You still can't get too crazy with the turbo you're using but it's much more forgiving.
#61
Team Owner
Also, the compressor wheel reminds me of the variety that are most efficient in the 30+psi range at a given flow. I might be wrong, just going by looks. The description says 68/88 which is probably a divided housing with two different ARs which screams diesel turbo. I haven't had a chance to look at it or the map so I'm not entirely sure.
#62
Burning Brakes
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Also, the compressor wheel reminds me of the variety that are most efficient in the 30+psi range at a given flow. I might be wrong, just going by looks. The description says 68/88 which is probably a divided housing with two different ARs which screams diesel turbo. I haven't had a chance to look at it or the map so I'm not entirely sure.
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For J32 and J35 guys it might be perfect.
S363 compressor map just incase you want to view it.
![](https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/600x600/borgwarner_airwerks_series_s300sx3_turbo_pn_177280_d3434bcd4db969f3623344156458a74728c3f2e4.jpg)
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 06-02-2015 at 08:15 PM.
#64
Burning Brakes
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Just for comparison, lsthatch over on j32a was running an S366 which flows over 82lb/min on a stock J32A2
It made 707 whp @ 20psi on 110
(20psi) until ~ 6k rpm. Boost was 4psi @ 4k, 12.8psi @ 5k, 17.3psi @ 5.5k ... just to give you an idea. Keep in mind that my manifold has large runners that are pretty long.
#65
Team Owner
The problem is, it looks like his wastegate is not even needed until 6k. If you want a stockish powerband and feel but with much more power, that's one way to do it. But why not enjoy a much better, flatter powerband that's going to make the car feel lighter and acceleration more effortless. It will be easier to launch and easier to go fast without perfect shifting
For a street setup, full boost should be in by 3-3.5k and I shoot for 2,800rpm on my daily driver GN (GT6576). It made almost 630lbs of torque at 2,800rpm and over 500hp from 2,800 to 6,200rpm which is the limit of the stock bottom end in rpm, peaking at 602rwhp at 6,000rpm. It's a wide flat powerband where it doesn't matter if I get caught in between gears, it can muscle through tall years at low rpm.
I've never mentioned this except to two members but the last run the car had was an 800+ rwhp Supra that came down from LA. We had some pretty significant money on it. I was at a 200hp deficit but luckily my car is lighter by a little bit. I beat him twice in a row because while he was spooling I was gone. He honored the bet but wanted to go from a roll to see what would happen. It's not what most people would think. From 60mph we both had traction issues but I still pulled him once we were full throttle and hooked to 120mph. He began catching me after 120mph which is a weird feeling but the race was over. My car made more power than him until he was near redline so even from a roll my car held him off for quite a while. Once he was in the taller years where he was spending more time near redline he began reeling me in.
The turbo gives you the chance to have more torque at a lower rpm than a 427 plus pull hard to redline without falling off. You can have your cake and eat it too if you put a lot of thought into the turbo. For the first time, the heads and cams don't determine where the torque peak is, the turbo does.
It's totally up to the owner as to what he wants but from screwing up more than most people ever will, my preference is to give up a few hp (it won't hook anyway) for a big fat powerband that a big block would be envious of. I'm just putting the info out there, he may choose the big turbo option. Either way I guess they're not hard to swap out if he's not happy with either option.
I have to admit, it's pretty damn cool to see a stock J making 700hp at only 20psi. The top end will no doubt support 1,000hp.
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#68
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Trying to buy in W.Va. My debt to income ratio way too high. I owe 180k in student loans and just getting paid intern rate. lol Parents couldn't get the loan for me since they own 3 houses that aren't paid off. So pretty shitty situation. Just ended up renting a single apt since I have drama with my roommates.
#69
Three Wheelin'
Rent a bigger place and interview your own roommates...might help to eliminate the drama since you're the one screening the roommates, and you can continue to save on rent.
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Wife moving in also so no roommates . I want to bang everywhere :p
Already sign the least for the apartment. It's fully furnished. Will be selling a ton of stuff in a few weeks. Snow tires and rims, valve covers, washer just to name a few
Already sign the least for the apartment. It's fully furnished. Will be selling a ton of stuff in a few weeks. Snow tires and rims, valve covers, washer just to name a few
#73
Team Owner
I'm looking at having to get a prepaid credit card to begin building credit as if I were 18 yrs old. Actually I just got offered a $200 card with a $75 startup fee but I might see if I can actually get it. Although I would probably be spending out of control if I didn't have to actually have the money to buy something. That might be dangerous.
#74
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I need help. 😩. 6 figure income, no kids, no debt literally, but no credit history. I rent my house but due to no credit history I'm unable to buy a house even with 60k+ down. I was told I would be better off with bad credit than no credit. Nobody will even look at me.
I'm looking at having to get a prepaid credit card to begin building credit as if I were 18 yrs old. Actually I just got offered a $200 card with a $75 startup fee but I might see if I can actually get it. Although I would probably be spending out of control if I didn't have to actually have the money to buy something. That might be dangerous.
I'm looking at having to get a prepaid credit card to begin building credit as if I were 18 yrs old. Actually I just got offered a $200 card with a $75 startup fee but I might see if I can actually get it. Although I would probably be spending out of control if I didn't have to actually have the money to buy something. That might be dangerous.
#75
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I need help. 😩. 6 figure income, no kids, no debt literally, but no credit history. I rent my house but due to no credit history I'm unable to buy a house even with 60k+ down. I was told I would be better off with bad credit than no credit. Nobody will even look at me.
I'm looking at having to get a prepaid credit card to begin building credit as if I were 18 yrs old. Actually I just got offered a $200 card with a $75 startup fee but I might see if I can actually get it. Although I would probably be spending out of control if I didn't have to actually have the money to buy something. That might be dangerous.
I'm looking at having to get a prepaid credit card to begin building credit as if I were 18 yrs old. Actually I just got offered a $200 card with a $75 startup fee but I might see if I can actually get it. Although I would probably be spending out of control if I didn't have to actually have the money to buy something. That might be dangerous.
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#76
Team Owner
That would be awesome to get a house that cheap. I had up to 100k to put down on a 260k house at one time and it was a no go. I thought based on income, stable employment with the same company for a long time, and the amount down it was a sure deal. I asked for the heck of it if I could get financed on $180k with $100k down and they said it was very unlikely. $180k gets surprisingly little around here unfortunately. The neighborhood I'm looking at is still offering new houses for $260-$320k. I was surprised at all of the riff raff in the neighborhood and then realized the same houses were going for $180k or less not that long ago.
#77
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^ man, i spent some time looking at houses down here in san diego recently and if i don't want a big time fixer upper, i'm looking at 450k min. it's so stupid down here. i'm an engineer doing well and i can't afford a house down here. to the pharmacy student...hang in there, that debt will go fast once you get out and if you are focused! engineers don't make as much money relative to what people think we make
i agree with the others, get a gas card that will help a lot it's a certain type of credit. i started with capital one card for me and my wife's credit cards, which is pretty friendly to people with little or no credit.
i agree with the others, get a gas card that will help a lot it's a certain type of credit. i started with capital one card for me and my wife's credit cards, which is pretty friendly to people with little or no credit.
#78
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I was taught at an early age that credit is what get you ahead financially in life, unless your parents have a few million in the bank. Better start early and buy stuff and pay it off. I used to buy hot cheetos in high school with my CC. Even with 180k debt over my head my credit is around 757. My parents are both over 800. So I still have a little bit to go before I get to excellent, but being at very good isn't bad either.
#79
Burning Brakes
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That would be awesome to get a house that cheap. I had up to 100k to put down on a 260k house at one time and it was a no go. I thought based on income, stable employment with the same company for a long time, and the amount down it was a sure deal. I asked for the heck of it if I could get financed on $180k with $100k down and they said it was very unlikely. $180k gets surprisingly little around here unfortunately. The neighborhood I'm looking at is still offering new houses for $260-$320k. I was surprised at all of the riff raff in the neighborhood and then realized the same houses were going for $180k or less not that long ago.
Sure, after 2009 it became a bit more difficult, but when you say you had no credit history - did you pay cash for your TL, or have the loan in someone else's name? To say you had no credit history at all is like you were in WitSec or something.
I looked at CA real estate in general a while back and thought Bakersfield (still there?) was still reasonably affordable. Walnut Creek and San Francisco were absurd.
If you're really serious, PM me and I'll give you my broker's name. Some of the things he can do with DTI are pretty crazy. Only thing he can't do is help me on refinancing my first house since it's not a principal residence. The banking industry is so absurd - if I could refi it to current rates, I would be net positve cash flow from rental income by about $200 per month instead of negative $350, but no new company wants to take the loan since it isn't a primary, and my current bank doesn't want to refi it because they have it at a higher rate already, so why should they?
The mortgage industry is a shell game and it's all about known where the pea is.
Anywho, back to turbos... - IHC - if you were to use twins - what size would you go with? GT28s seem too small, and GT30s maybe too big, no?
Last edited by screaminz28; 06-20-2015 at 06:52 AM. Reason: added relevant info