04DCTL

so i posted this in the "Car Talk" Sub-forum and got told i should post it here for more of a response...

So I am on another forum and a guy with a 8th gen civic posted this link.

A shop in Missouri has deleted drive by wire by pretty much using an RSX-S TB.
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...ock-gauges.html


Wonder what would have to be done to make this work for a TL so all the boosted people can have a proper tune?

Lets hear some opinions

csmeance

I don't think that DBW is the problem, it is the ECU itself.

eluzion

From what I've heard, DBW is the biggest issue. Isn't that what stopped Hondata from creating a standalone system?

Tripnbeats

yup POS system developed by these greatly retarded engineers on a manual car was the worst thing they couldve done by far.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

Well p2r has the throttlebody for sale in the bm... So if you need one for the j-series that's the best way to go... and I would agree ecu

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

DBW is one of the biggest hurdles, preventing us from runnning a standalone. you'd probably loose a few other options like TCS too.

04DCTL

yeah i read on the 8th gen civic forum that you lose traction control, cruise control and i believe that was it

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

DBW is superior to cable throttle in so many ways...

- more accurate throttle response
- more efficient operation
- no maintenence
- and of course the linkage of TCS, and other safety systems

Other than the fact that presents a hurdle in the aftermarket tuning realm, it's so much better from a mechanical stand point.

If tuning was amajor concern, you bought the wrong car, and you should be in a simpler, OLDER car.

CBP TL-S

- more accurate throttle response
Are you serious? Having a delay in the time I hit the gas and the time it takes the car to move is not what I call " accurate throttle response"

- no maintenence
Really? When is the last time you heard of a throttle cable failing? Unlikely.
DBW is much more complex than a simple cable, more things to fail more $$ to fix FTL..

- and of course the linkage of TCS, and other safety systems
TCS has been integrated into plenty of cars not using DBW and the results are near the same.

As my opinion is and always will be, DBW is garbage.

Just another bells & whistles ploy implemented by car manufacturers to jack up the price and advertise it as some sort of "awesome feature"

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

- you're kidding right...? can you really sense "speed of light" delay in an electronic circuit? There is no discernable delay... If you are expereinceing delay, it's due to engine tuning/stumble, which direct throttle systems are just as subject to encounter. This is due to the high output nature of modern engines with strict EPA emissions requirements.

- My cable throttle on my Nissan truck failed 2X, once on my motorcycle, and just recently on my neighbor's integra (and broke at full throttle, almost blew the engine....). When was the last time you heard of an expensive DBW system failure that a $12 TPS couldn't fix?

Ploy? It's implemented in such a manner to build integrated safety and reliability into modern cars, for the idiot drivers out there who drive it like it had no safety features...

Bah, those dumbass engineers... they have no idea what they're doing. Those airbags, ABS systems, crash worthy frames... we don't need any of that. Go cart on wheels is what I need.

You belong in a 72 Nova if you really believe any of that shit...

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

If you guys are that worried about hesitation, you should have bought a manual. I have no delays what so ever. Bottom line is don't blame it on the DBW, blame it on your tranny.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I have a manual... I have no delay.

wrxyboy

iTrader: (2)

I agree with Kennedy the DBW is not the problem. I owned a 2004 Wrx STI and they were DBW and there are standalone systems for them and some guys get them to +400hp. It just the lack of engine management systems out there for our cars period.

eluzion

I've never, ever, seen a throttle cable/body fail.

But anyways, I don't think there is anything wrong with DBW it and it certainly has benefits. I just don't think the demand is high enough for a company to invest in creating a full standalone system for the TL.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

No maintance, who are you kidding? Its still a TB and It will get dirty but since its DBW you mess around to clean it, you will end up buying a new one. Trust me on this one Ive seen it done at my job and 4 out of the 5 done need TB's after the service.

My ladys maxima had 90k, the TB was completely black and had a slight carbon lip which left the plate slightly open. I cleaned it as careful as I can without spraying anything inside and ended up buying her a new TB and having the idle re-learn done.

Tripnbeats

the only thing i dont like is that i cant feel my motor when I rev because of the dbw. other than that i think the system is good.

c_potvin

I would like to add for 6MT owners:

-rev matching for smooth upshifts (relax driving)
-rev holding when downshifting if you blip the gas while passing neutral to avoid engine compression effects

Pretty cool no?

Carl

SporkLover

There are these same type of issues in a cabled setup too...... these issues are easily addressed with appropriate Tuning.

On the G35 Sedans they had the most noticeable lag between pressing the throttle and the engine responding..... Infiniti listened and in 08 G35 Sedans they tuned out the lag.

I have.... not too mention the other issues with cabled setups.... like improper tension leading to the inability of the TB to open all the way or worse open too far.


Yes but with a cabled setup TCS is easily defeated by keeping your foot buried in the gas pedal. With a DBW setup you have a TCS system that can close the throttle body.

This is just the next evolution of new technology being integrated and waiting for people to embrace it. Heh I remember Carb vs EFI arguments.

SporkLover

Unfortunately in the luxury market the engineers goal is to isolate the driver as much as possible. They dont want engine noises, engine vibrations, road noise, suspension noise... etc etc entering the passenger compartment at all.

I mean if you are buying a $35 - 40k luxury vehicle do you really want those intrusions? Granted the TL is somewhat geared towards sport.....but most makes do not want that in their luxury cars.

Tripnbeats

hell yea i want intrusions.....especially if it means elongating the life of my clutch and being 100% about dropping the clutch in the correct place instead of playing a guessing game.
the car's in stick... i think that's intrusive enough lol

timmahh

Isn't DBW more responsive because it's ehh instant? A small servo awaiting input from the pedal.. I dunno it seems more accurate for some reason.

Anywho; I also appreciate the DBW because I can put the car in first, and let it idle through traffic w/o it stalling itself or worrying about a stall.. the DBW won't let it happen.

SporkLover

You have a tach man

Tripnbeats

thanks spork! lol!!!