AbyssPearlTL

I read a few posts on swoosh's high protein diet thread, and I'm thinking that removing the CAI might be a good option, especially if I'm losing power with it. Also, ever since I installed it, I've been getting consistent P0159,P0139 codes.

Anyone have any insight here? Is the CAI worth it?

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Why do you think you're losing power with it?

Not sure what those codes indicate, but the CAI itself isn't causing them. Do you know what the codes indicate?

NvrDwn

Read my last post.

AbyssPearlTL

Yeah, I was reading the same thread.

As for the codes... it's both bottom o2s claiming to have slow response. I've replaced them, but that wasn't it. It could just be the PCDs but Ive gone back and forth with Richie, nothing really resolved it. But the problem did start when I installed the CAI.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I don't see how slow response on the O2's would be affected by the CAI. The codes started immediately after installing the intake?

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Have you reset the ECU?

TLOHTL

Which Cai do u have ?
And if you search you will see the gains I had with an aem Cai. I would never take it off.

AbyssPearlTL

Pretty much. I mean it could be the PCDs, but it just seemed odd that it would start like that.


Oh yeah, many times.



Ebay intake (has all the provisions and line hook ups) with a 3"x8" cone filter.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

doubtful it's the CAI (i haven't ever had any issues). it's most likely the PCDs. did you have any CELs after PCD install? and how soon after did you install the CAI?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

while the cold air intake does get bashed, its not because it doesnt gain.
its because the cost to gain ratio is horrible.

again, not sure what the cold air intake has to do with 02 codes.

P.S. if you go back to stock, have fun fitting the piping back together

NvrDwn

Check your wires and clean any plugins associated with them. If this was from the intake if anything it would say to lean. Check all hook ups to the intake, and intake mani to be safe.

D Loke

I highly doubt those codes are from the CAI. What exactly do those codes indicate?

PS I'm removing my CAI too. Miss my low end tq.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

LOL at this statement

D Loke

No LOL for me. I have installed 2 different CAI's and switched back and forth between them and modified airboxes. I cannot stand punching it at extremely low rpm's and the car just slugs for a few seconds, then picks up. With an airbox, there is an obvious difference in low end response I should say.

AbyssPearlTL

Probably will do this.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I don't understand the hate on them. Still a better ratio than a $1,000 + cat back

AbyssPearlTL

Well if it makes you guys feel any better, I got mine for $40 shipped on ebay :-D

connork53

iTrader: (1)

With a cardboard filter.....

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I purchased the cheapo ebay intake as well and never noticed any loss of power or torque. I ditched the crappy filter and replaced it with an AEM dryflow. What kind of filter do you have on there?

And yeah, repeating what has already been said; I don't know how the CAI would cause a CEL. There are no sensors attached to it. In fact, I don't see any way any intake could cause a CEL. I've tried stock, short ram and cold air and never had a CEL. Pretty much guarentee it's something else.....

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

thank you for backing up the no loss of torque claim.

UA6

Sonnick

It's not your intake.

Maybe there is a crack in your PCD? Although I got a lean code when that happened. However, I still have a lean code with the new V3s and I know they aren't cracked.

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0159
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0139

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

do you have the "defoulers" for your PCD? not sure if that is the correct spelling, basically it keeps your O2 sensors from being in the direct path of the exhaust.. not sure if that would help

I got nothing to say for CAI

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

suspect the PCD's before anything else when it comes to O2 sensor codes. They can be sensitive and if you added a CAI so you're getting more air and combustion is pushing more exhaust out, if the o2 sensor defoulers were not angled properly you could easily see a code get blown because of that.

the CAI by itself isn't going to cause those codes to throw.

3gstealth

iTrader: (2)

The codes you are getting are from your PCD's not your CAI. When I had PCD's I would get the same codes you are getting. And yes, everything was properly installed with the defoulers. I took out my PCD's and installed type s cats, now I no longer get a CEL. I was running a CAI with both setups.

FYI here is a thread I started on the issue:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/cel-due-pcd-858697/

The only way to permanently resolve this issue is to trick the ECU electronically but I'm not sure how to do that, the defoulers will never work 100% of the time.

Keep your CAI, it's the best bang for your buck performance mod for the TL. It showed the most gains for me on the 1/4 mile track.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

defoulers will not work 100% of the time, that is true, but don't tell the guy that the CAI should be kept because it's the best performance mod for the TL in dollar-to-horsepower ratio. That's just not accurate.

PCD's are still the absolute best dollar-to-hp ratio gain you'll see especially on a base TL. For 400 bucks you can't beat it, even if the car has no other supporting mods.

To claim that you get noticeable increases in the 1/4 when you slap a CAI on is also incorrect. If your times are better after installing a CAI, it's because you have gotten better at launching and shifting in a straight line. It's not because you installed a CAI.

Dave_B

^This. Improved density altitude conditions can play a huge roll too.

Lots of induction noise and overall increase NVH are great ways to fool the butt dyno and increase the sensation of speed.

3gstealth

iTrader: (2)

1/4 mile times improved by .3 on my car when I added the CAI with no other changes and very similar weather conditions. My car is 5AT so shifting and launching is a mute point. I always launch the same way to measure gains. PCD are $400 compared to a $100 CAI so for me it is a better bang for the buck mod. PCD gave me .15 improvement in the 1/4 mile in similar conditions. Please share your results in the 1/4 and we can compare. Dyno gains cannot replicate real world performance as the little fan only goes 30mph. I am going over 30 mph in the 1/4 pretty quickly.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

not to be nit picky....but its moot.

NvrDwn

Hm. It's a pretty set deal that if you gain 10whp you take .1 off your 1/4. That would suggest a 30whp gain. Makes me wonder if there was a prior issue and the new cai fixed that problem.

3gstealth

iTrader: (2)

I know, I was shocked at how much it helped me. I went from running consistent 15.1's to 14.8's after installing CAI in the same weather conditions. I didn't expect it to help me THAT much. My previous filter was a new OEM filter so it wasn't clogged or anything. I even inspected my old OEM pipes to see if there was a dead rat in there or a mud-jacket nest but to my surprise it was clean!

NvrDwn

Very interesting.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

OP...way to ruin my name

I love the CAI...those codes are not CAI related....sometimes it takes the ECU couple miles and sometimes it takes the ECU couple days to get those codes....

PCD's should have defouler and even with the defouler at times multiple members get the codes....run some seafoam....reset your ECU....remove the O2 sensors and clean em....these are the 3 solutions which come to my mind....

now to your CAI....any cheap tubing will do, just make sure the filter is good....if those are the only 2 codes you are getting then i dont think you missed any connector (around the CAI) unplugged....

how many miles on your TL ?

Richie v6

You shouldn't get slow response codes if the defoulers are installed properly. The defoulers are shipped one turn back from protuding into the PCD and pointed up. You can also try enlarging the orifice to the defoulers. People with this issue have been having luck with a 3/8" orifice.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

i don't take my TL to the 1/4 strip. I quit drag racing a long time ago - nowadays you'll find me at Blackhawk Farms or Road America.

I spent enough time at the track when I was younger, know enough about the physics of how combustion engines work, and have modified and seen results of enough cars at the track to know that you aren't going to shave 3 tenths of a second off your 1/4 time by just slapping a CAI on a car like the TL.

Reaction time plays a huge factor which you get better with over time, and launching an AT takes skill just like a MT (not quite as much as an MT), and you probably get better at that, too.

I mean by the logic of slapping a CAI on and shaving .3 off the 1/4, that would suggest I could do that on my TL-S with nothing else and keep up with a G37.

I think you should be giving yourself more credit for getting better at driving, rather than trying to claim a CAI gives you that much of a gain.

3gstealth

iTrader: (2)

I hear what you are saying, and I was surprised at the results with the CAI as well. However, you are incorrect about reaction time in the 1/4 mile. Reaction time is NOT figured into your 1/4 mile time. You can literally sit at the line for 10 minutes and still run a 14.8 or a 15.1.

With the TL I try to run as consistent as possible to measure my mods. Traction control off, one foot on brake, one over gas. On green I release brake and floor it at the same time. Not too much to think about. It's much easier to launch consistently than my previous car which was a 6MT 2002 S4 that ran high 11's- low 12's.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you that a CAI isn't going to knock 3/10's off anyone's time, but reaction time has no effect on elapsed time. Clock doesn't start till you trip the beam, so you can sit there for 10 seconds if you want. You'll lose the race unless the other guy breaks out, but your time/mph won't be any different.

Sonnick

IIRC, 3Gstealth, your trap speed did increase with the CAI. That shows you did gain power. I don't believe you gained 3mph though, which would indicate near 30whp gain. I'm sure you had a better launch coupled with the bit of extra power from the CAI. I gained ~2mph from the 3.7 IM/TB/runner setup. The dyno showed 15whp, so it made sense to me. What's weird to me (although I did miss 4th gear), was that my 60' was 0.25 better, and my ET was .43 better. This shows me that if I would've replicated my 2.07 60' I would've ran the same time despite the 2mph difference. But I'm sure the 4th gear miss cost me ~0.1 - 0.15, so that would explain it.

Dave_B

So your CAI netted you around 30whp/wtq across the entire powerband. Sounds plausible

Question: What were your trapspeeds before and after the CAI?

Sonnick

^ Ironically enough, his trap speed increased ~3mph lol. Not only that, but it was 30 degrees hotter out as well. 3GStealth, check the Density Altitude for the 2 days at the track then compare the corrected numbers. I bet despite the 30 degree difference, there is some other variable involved. Come to think of it, in your thread didn't you say you went to the track the first time with 'just RV6 V3 Jpipe?' And when you went back you had CAI/Jpipe/Type S cats/PnP runners?

It wouldn't take 30whp across the powerband to yield a 3mph increase. I gained ~5-10whp from 5000 to 6000 and ~10-15whp after 6000 RPM and my trap speed increased by 2mph uncorrected. Corrected trap difference was 2.5mph since the conditions were worse off than the day of my 102mph trap.