When I recently got my eShift Pro Cat system installed by Joe Demaree @ SSC, I talked to him about radiators and the availability of of a high flow radiator like made by fluidyne or similar companies. He checked into having one made here in Indianapolis and there is a company he told me about that will do custom radiators....

Here is the details of the Company/Product in question:



Custom Built Radiators

C&R Racing, Inc. offers solutions to high performance radiator applications as well as complete cooling packages. C&R builds custom radiators to the height, width, fitting layout, and mounts specific to your application. C&R has the technology to build crossflow, downflow, counterflow, or doublepass radiators depending on your high performance needs. Custom-built radiators solve common problems for high performance needs in all racing applications. C&R’s all-aluminum design results in radiators that are lighter and have greater cooling power. The custom-built radiators use furnace brazed cores (no epoxy) resulting in better heat dissipation and are heliarc welded with CNC precision machined billet aluminum necks and fittings. SPAL fans and custom C&R brackets or shrouds are available with each custom-built radiator.

Not sure if this interests anyone or not. I plan on doing a supercharger upgrade soon and this is one of the precursors that I would like to have in place prior to this in order to keep the engine cooler. Obviously cooler is better....and with the supercharger...I figured this to be a must! If we have enough interested people...I will do the leg work to check on the availablity of a group discount, ect. as well as everyone will get the benefit of my downtime on the vehicle as they do need the OEM radiator for a day to get some measurements prior to making it. So far I am clueless as to what the cost is going to be.....but I am sure the more people...the better we are all gonna be. I am not trying to make anything here....just that I am going to have one of these things made....and thought maybe others might be interested in taking advantage of the down-time I have to go though as well as the research, ect.

At which time I get enough interested people....we would have to set up a group buy deal and get set up as a vendor on AZ in order to institute a group buy situation. I am going to do this regardless myself....but thought there may be others interested as well that would consititute a group buy situation? Here is a little background on the company for those that might wonder, are these people qualified?

Clients of C & R Racing:
NASCAR®NEXTEL CUP SERIES CHAMPION
Tony Stewart – Joe Gibbs Racing

NASCAR® BUSCH SERIES CHAMPION
Martin Truex Jr. – Dale Earnhardt, Inc.

CHAMPIONSHIP OFF ROAD RACING (CORR)
PRO-4 CHAMPION
Johnny Greaves – Greaves-Kincaid Motorsports

PACIFIC COAST XTREME DIRTCAR SERIES CHAMPION
Greg Walters – Walters Racing

LATE MODEL SUNOCO SUPER SERIES CHAMPION
Jeff Lane – Hayden Butler Racing

ASAR HOOTERS PROCUP SERIES CHAMPION
(SOUTHERN DIVISION)
Shane Huffman – Knights Racing, Inc.

USAC SPRINT CAR SERIES CHAMPION
Levi Jones – 2B Racing

USAC SILVER CROWN CHAMPION
Dave Steele – Bob East/Tony Stewart

USAC MIDGETS CHAMPION
Josh Wise – Tony Stewart Racing Enterprises

NHRA TOP FUEL CHAMPION
Tony Schumacher - Don Schumacher Racing

NHRA FUNNY CAR CHAMPION
Gary Scelzi - Don Schumacher Racing

ARCA SERIES CHAMPION
Frank Kimmel – Tri State Motorsports

INDIANAPOLIS 500 CHAMPION
Dan Wheldon – Andretti Green Racing

IRL INDYCAR® SERIES CHAMPION
Dan Wheldon – Andretti Green Racing

CHAMPCAR SERIES CHAMPION
Sebastien Bourdais – Newman/Haas Racing

WORLD OF OUTLAWS SERIES CHAMPION
Steve Kinser – Steve Kinser Racing

GRAND-AM CHAMPION
Max Angelelli/Wayne Taylor/Emmanuel Collard
SunTrust Racing/Riley Technologies

GRAND-AM CUP SERIES CHAMPION
David Empringham – Multimatic Mustang

24 HOUR DAYTONA CHAMPION
Max Angelelli/Wayne Taylor/Emmanuel Collard
SunTrust Racing/Riley Technologies

24 HOUR LE MANS CHAMPION
Oliver Gavin/Olivier Beretta – Pratt Miller

AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES CHAMPION GT1
Oliver Gavin/Olivier Beretta – Pratt Miller

AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES CHAMPION P2
Clint Field – Intersport Racing

AMA MOTOCROSS SERIES CHAMPION
Ricky Carmichael - American Suziki Motor Corp/Makita/Bridgestone

Established in 1988, C&R Racing, Inc. is the leading manufacturer of cooling systems and components for the motorsport industry. Chris Paulsen, former IndyCar Series chief mechanic, started the company as a custom machine shop and metal fabrication business. Since 1988, the company has grown to be the leading manufacturer of custom parts and equipment for high performance applications, complete cooling systems, chassis and drivetrain components, and wind tunnel models. C&R is the largest and preferred supplier of custom all-aluminum radiators to NASCAR Nextel Cup, IRL IndyCar Series, and Champ Car.

“The racing knowledge of our staff, is unmatched by few, if any, of our competitors,” states Chris Paulsen, President of C&R Racing, Inc. “We’ve experienced winning and losing; knowing what makes both of those happen allows us to build quality, high performance products.”

In addition to Chris, the team is lead by George Huening and Peter Wilska. George, also a former IndyCar Series chief mechanic, exemplifies over 25 years experience in the motorsport industry and manages the machine and fabrication shop. Peter, the former General Manager for Lola USA, manages the sales and parts departments. With over 60 years combined racing experience, motorsports is the only industry many of the staff has ever known. The expertise gained from the collaborative efforts of the staff has made C&R the top choice for teams and builders for any high performance racing application.

Paulsen continues, “We are innovative, do not copy ideas and have strong relationships with our customers. Our commitment to not cut corners has allowed us to establish our mark in the racing industry.”

C&R’s fabrication and machine shop is equipped with the latest in CNC machine tools, metal fabrication equipment, and CAD/CAM technology. Dedicated personnel provide a high tech “job shop” for professional racers worldwide; products include chassis related machine and fabrication parts, 40% and 50% wind tunnel models, complete cooling systems with all-aluminum radiators and furnace brazed cores (no epoxy), and suspension components. C&R’s performance division, located on-site, supplies an elite line of plumbing hardware, heatshield products, safety equipment, and specialty lubricants for the motorsports industry.

January 1, 2005 C&R announced the opening of C&R Racing South. C&R South manufactures and distributes drivetrain components (including the NASCAR approved BB-I transmission), Dynotech driveshafts, Visteon 9” Racing Gear Sets, and current C&R products excluding custom-built radiators.

C&R contributes to the winning formula of championship race teams across all venues of motorsports – from NASCAR to Late Model, Off-Road to Military, Motorcycles to Road Racers, Karts to IndyCars, and many more. C&R is comprised of C&R Racing, Inc., C&R Racing Performance, C&R Racing Radiators, and C&R Racing South. C&R Racing Radiators is proud to be a technical and R&D partner with Visteon – one of the largest automotive suppliers in the world. C&R gets the job done every race weekend.



I know this is a lot of information here (all of course except pricing, which we all want to know!) but I wanted to give everybody a fair picture of who/where/what ect so the questions regarding who/what would be minimized and maybe just the "when" and "how much" questions then......but dont hesitate to ask. Just chime in if this sounds like something you would consider doing and I will know if to talk about having more than one made. Right now...I am already in...just figured I would share the possible resourse and possiblke realized discounts. Pricing would be determined on how many interested people and what type of discount I could negotiate on 10 or 15 of em or something and would obviously be forthcoming as the project either dies (group project...cause I am going for it so there will definately be one anyway, which is what they will base the initial price from you will see quoted once they get my radiator. Kind of like the pro-cats...there will be one regardless.....just if anybody else wants one too - they will work with us and AZ as it develops out from here.

 

Yeah sounds interesting to me.

 

yeah man .. i'm in!!! though even with the supercharger, the temperature seems to be the same.. i have a separate water temperature gauge, and it's unchanged since i got the supercharger.. that said I'M IN!!!

 

I use to have one of these on my Civic SI. I'm in if they make one for our car.

 

I'd consider it

 

They are going to make one for my order.....not currently making it...but that is what we are here talking about. I am going to have one made regardless.....been wanting one for a while now. My buddy also has one on a CIVIC he has and it has been flawless thoughout with no problems whatsoever. So ya....working on it. I will put you on a list of interested parties for the feeler thread....when we get pricing together....you can reconfirm at that point. I just want to see if it is viable to begin with and am gonna run it just like the pro-cat deal....get enough people...and we will do the AZ vendor paperwork and start with deposits, ect and get em made. Again...I am doing it anyway...just wondering if we should have more than one made for other people that would be interested in upgrading radiators at the same time....or shortly thereafter.

 

Interested Parties List: (pending pricing & program approval obviously)

1. MichaelBenz (committed, project leader)
2. DragonLord
3. TL-Crazie-05
4. Bklynpanman
5. SubInf
6.

 

I'm interested.

 

I like this answer

 

I would be "interested"

 

*

 

I need to buy a radiator for my car. It was stolen and stripped. It is an 04 auto. So when u finish with I can probably get it from u. So keep it in mind as an option

 

Originally Posted by MichaelBenz
Interested Parties List: (pending pricing & program approval obviously)

1. MichaelBenz (committed, project leader)
2. DragonLord
3. TL-Crazie-05
4. Bklynpanman
5. SubInf
6. Dan.....K
7. TL'n IT UP


Banelba = possibly wants OEM example radiator when they are done looking at it.

 

I have just purchased the OEM sample radiator to submit to C & R ...so this is moving forward slowly. We should have a cost back of what this will cost to do based on 5 to 7 units (I figure somebody will end up backing out so I dont want to over-commit) as soon as the radiator comes in and I can get it out there (my guess is 1.5 to 2 weeks?). If there is anybody else considering this....toss your name in now so you can be counted. Obviously this is all pending pricing approval from everybody...so nobody is really "on the hook" yet whatsoever. BUT....as soon as I get a price back...I will be proceeding from there fairly quickly...so I will have to get all the prelims in order....deposits, vendor, ect.

 

Sweet. I hope this works out.

 

Oh, it will. Already have a buddy running a custom radiator in his Honda that this same company has made. He has had it in his car for over a year now with not one problem! Very cool looking and very efficient!

 

OK guys...I just got the brand new sample radiator in today via UPS to take over to the fabricator for measurements. I will keep you informed as it develops, ect. Not too late for any others that may be interested in joining in for an initial price look. Just speak up and you will be added to the list. For more information...read the above posts for progression of project.

 

Don't forget the rules for a Group Buy. It's possible that you won't get enough people interested for the vendor to want to sign on and pay the fees, but we need to watch this anyway and if we can get him signed on that would help.

 

Any news

 

Yes...the stock radiator is out at C&R now and I expect something back this coming week as far as pricing. There was a short delay in me getting the stock rad out there due to a schedule conflict I had...sorry...so i wasnt able to get it out there until last week. Should all be downhill from here.

 

anyone have the measurements of the 3g TL radiator? Michael, can you ask them about the measurements? My radiator in my 01 CL-S is going to need to need to be replaced and I'd like to put in a lightweight one if possible. If I send them one, will they make a one off for me?

 

Sure...I'll ask em about it. No problem. For the most part...they do work for race teams and I think they also mfg some parts for the aftermarket industry under other peoples brand names for them. Pretty big operation they have going.

 

those radiators are unecessary unless u are running like high boost or high horsepower cars. I've seen care with 500whp running stock radiators so in my opinion thats just for show

 

I would agee on your car....but the 3G motors heat up bit more than the 2G ones did....and with the addition of a supercharger....this aids quite a bit....hows this for an idea for you....I can cool this same car the same rate as OEM radiator with one less than 1/2 the size of the OEM radiator made differently...? Whats that tell ya...the OEM radiator is very innefficient comparably. Not to menion....for those that RACE their cars....its a godsend as it saves weight as well as cools more efficiently. OEM rads are full of epoxy like materials, ect....so if you wanna trust all that stress to glue? Go for it! Myself...I am gonna upgrade to what the pros use and assure myself no problems up front. And as you clearly state...they do look very cool too!

 

For me I'm doing it for looks. Instead of adding a rear wing I'm adding a new radiator.

 

hey, was wondering if theres any news, though im sure michael would post, he is very fastidiious like that. but i don't know if i should add myself to the list or not, like i said, i have a 2G CL. But would be willing to pay for a one-off. I am interested mainly for weight savings but also better cooling. Thanks in advance.

 

Status of this project currently is.....

Measurements have been made/taken for the 3G TL Radiator - last weekend they took a look at the actual application (mine in my car) to check for clearances and any issues with install/fabrication. His plan is to develop an application for BOTH N/A and Supercharged cars alike....so they also looked at some of the pics of the supercharger install and some of the issues involved with fitment there (mainly the top rad hose)....and they are looking into angling the top neck a minor bit (like 10 degrees) to create more clearance for the top hose (on the supercharger install rad....N/A is not a problem here either way...but this way it will work on either install!), without bringing it too far up in the compartment whatsoever. The tank is larger on their models typically, (thicker) so the kit comes with replacement electical fans that work in conjunction with the radiator kit. They are seeking some Honda type plugs for these electical connections...so it would be a "plug and play" install....with no splicing required and a real clean look....otherwise...we will have to cut the fan wires AFTER the plugs and splice into the system there at install....other than that....all the OEM stuff works right together with it!

Either way....the way we are trying to design it is so it will be a simple as taking your current radiator and electric fans out and replacing it with this one - and hopefully you will either plug up and be done - or splice the wire after the plug connection and be done! I kind of expect something back this week or next....

As for the other one-off project 2G TL request......it will have to follow this one as I also am working on another project right now...and have to locate a 2G TL in Indianapolis to use for an example/testing/ect. It isnt as simple as them seeing a stocker and making one to fit...there are clearance issues that need to be looked at, ect. Be patient and I will try to help you and the other 2G guys out too! I am planning a few other 2G TL and 3G TL projects....so I will have to locate a 2G TL anyway.

 

yup, i'm a 2nd gen CL-S, but you can cross-promote the radiator between BOTH 2nd Gen CL and TL since we both utilize the same radiator. just a heads up.

 

Just bumping the thread to see if there is any new word. I know you havent forgotten about it but have you heard anything else?

 

Yes....Joe Demaree and myself have been working with the mfg (C&R Racing) on the project and have settled on the correct parts and configuration. They will be replacing rad. and electric fans both with HP fans and larger radiator. They were a bit confused as to why the OEM rad is tapered in the center....and they are making a complete unit that is the same thickness top to bottom.....square...not tapered....so it is larger in capacity (one of the goals) with HP fans. They have clearance, Clarence, on everything.....and are over and out, Dunn. (j/k...Airplane! ref there) Just has to be made now. Being it is race season...we may be waiting for a minute on this one.....as I am sure we are being "back burnered" for a while during peak season.....I was quoted an initial price of about $850...which was about $150 more than I was expecting. The Honda unit ususally come in around $600 to $650....so this is where it stopped. I said...hey...it is what it is...lets make one...so its still working through the fabrication system that I am sure we are last in line in!! (Nascar people first I am sure)

 

Cool, thanks for the update, I'll be looking forward to this whenver it comes out. Good work.

 

850 sounds about right for a lightweight aluminum radiator w/ aftermarket fans. i personally would like to see a dyno before and after install. if the radiator is more effecient and the fans use less power to cool the same amount, this may release a few ponies.

i wish i could get in on this, but my CL uses a different part # from the 3G TL. =[ oh well, good luck michael.

 

Only through less alternator drag... The fans are electric... and they only kick on (and draw power) when the car is idling, i.e NOT under load. Airflow does the rest when moving.

I fail to see why we would want this outside of having a SC... Not sure it's needed there either. You'll actually hurt the engine if it runs too cool (outside of normal operating temperature), and a new super cooling radiator is surefire way to get it there.

Gone are the days of the laterally mounted engines with the mechanical fans (think 65 mustang... which can be replaced with high flow electrics to release a few ponies in drag).

Not to poo poo the work, I just don't understand what/where/why we would want it. I wish other developers had the energy of mike to bring us some serious power mods... chip retuning, cam, turbo... real stuff. Not just stuff to replace, just to replace.

 

i know exactly what you mean, but wouldnt this help out in a similiar way an aftermarket thermostat would help? as long as the radiator is built properly, it shouldnt 'overcool' the motor. but ideally, it would keep it cooler during traffic and high speed runs. no?

 

How will this help people with the Supercharger? How about making an after cooler for the supercharger so we could run a few PSI higher boost?

 

Actually...we are going to work on just this thing after the radiator project. We will custom fit a cooler in the front end...but this would require a changeover to the Versus motorsports front end in order to have to room and flow to make it work right....BUT.....working on it man! Thanks for the suggestion...cause your right...it is REALLY needed for the superchargers....but this would also require a custom milled pulley to return the boost that is lost due to said cooler.

So far as this project....as it has been stated...yes...if the motor gets too cold...that is not a good thing either...but what we are trying to acheive is optimum temp range and a better ability to keep it at that range while at full throttle or "spirited driving" as some would call it. Personally...I drive highway a LOT and this will be a good thing for me....not to mention we should see the following benefits:

Increased volume of coolant system
Lighter weight? (how much is TBD still...but this should result in a lighter weight unit)
Better ability to remain at optimum temp at high speeds


Now...the fact is...they may have to switch out from HP fans to regular speed fans depending upon the results after install...but this still remains to be seen. Also...due to the fact we can cool at a greater rate with the C&R unit...there would also be the possibility of making a SMALLER unit....thicker and less wide with custom brackets....which COULD free up some space for other goodies (turbo unit...if anybody would ever develop one for our cars) ect. So this project has some merit on several levels....depending upon what the aftermarket industry comes out with. Right now...we are just looking at a replacement unit for lighter weight and greater ability to cool while racing, ect or heavy duty driving habits, ect. Its a developing project....hey....we will see what happens! Dont knock it till ya see what we get? At least we are trying something which could very well compliment other aftermarket developments either on the market now or yet to be developed.

 

i agree that a smaller lighter more effecient unit would be a great product. i think many would buy it. but you would see a better market for older cars that are in need of radiators. older generation CLs/TLs are getting up there in age, and are getting radiator changes more than 04+ TLs. but you will still get the die hard enthusiasts that modify their cars regardless. such as myself.

 

I know what you are saying...but I kind of started this project as I have a 3G TL and have something to work with. But you are correct....market richer on the older cars.


UPDATE ON PROJECT: Vendor is ready to build out the first prototype radiator for me....but I gotta slam a deposit down and get the project going. I will be on this in the upcoming months. I need to find a time when I can give up my car for a few days for testing/install. But...its a while out before public release as I have to test/run it for a while afterwards to make sure all is good and I am sure there is something that is going to have to be tweaked before it is ready for "plug and play status".

 

Where are you driving? Death valley?

This is a great mod for supercharged guys......not so much for NA guys.

AND another thing.....I got punked out bad for cooling mods on "that other thread"

This seems like this just may be a cooling mod.

Perhaps I am missing something....but did Hondata say to "not do that!"

-Lee

 

thermostat/fan switch are good modifications. it was proven on the CL-S to produce gains and not cause any harm.