Comptech supercharger - advertized gain versus usable gain?
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Comptech supercharger - advertized gain versus usable gain?
I am looking for a dyno chart from Comptech that advertizes the claimed gains of their supercharger for the TL. I didn't see one at www.ct-engineering.com.
Can someone post (or give a link) to the dyno chart from Comptech showing the advertized gains ?
Some people say that "the Comptech supercharger on the 3rd gen TL made 65-85whp depending on the model."
And, there is this counter claim:
"For 5AT the supercharger WITH the cat-back exhaust makes only 60 HP more @ 6700 RPM which is I believe the redline! At 6300 RPM it ONLY makes ~36 more HP and that is also with the cat-back exhaust. The gains in the most usable power range are mediocre 20-30 hp at the most! ... BTW I got the numbers straight from the Comptech's website." (Source of quote - see post #18) (click here)
Can someone post (or give a link) to this dyno chart from Comptech showing the advertized gains ?
I would like to see the chart myself to see the average HP gain thru the usable RPM range (4500 - 6500), not just the peak gain at redline.
Can someone post (or give a link) to the dyno chart from Comptech showing the advertized gains ?
Some people say that "the Comptech supercharger on the 3rd gen TL made 65-85whp depending on the model."
And, there is this counter claim:
"For 5AT the supercharger WITH the cat-back exhaust makes only 60 HP more @ 6700 RPM which is I believe the redline! At 6300 RPM it ONLY makes ~36 more HP and that is also with the cat-back exhaust. The gains in the most usable power range are mediocre 20-30 hp at the most! ... BTW I got the numbers straight from the Comptech's website." (Source of quote - see post #18) (click here)
Can someone post (or give a link) to this dyno chart from Comptech showing the advertized gains ?
I would like to see the chart myself to see the average HP gain thru the usable RPM range (4500 - 6500), not just the peak gain at redline.
#2
I offloaded all of the COMPTECH dynos for their website during front-end of the organization's ownership transition.
I do remember that their dyno for the Gen3 TL with an auto trans & with their 'full build' (i.e., supercharger, icebox cai, catback) was 288 whp. COMPTECH's advertisement also claimed an additional 5 whp for the MT version, though no separate dyno was ever provided.
I'm not on this site enough to familiarize myself with uploading of PDFs & JPEGs. Also, I currently am not registered on any FTP site to facilitate posting graphics. However, I have no problem providing you the dyno PDF files via my private e-mail.
I do remember that their dyno for the Gen3 TL with an auto trans & with their 'full build' (i.e., supercharger, icebox cai, catback) was 288 whp. COMPTECH's advertisement also claimed an additional 5 whp for the MT version, though no separate dyno was ever provided.
I'm not on this site enough to familiarize myself with uploading of PDFs & JPEGs. Also, I currently am not registered on any FTP site to facilitate posting graphics. However, I have no problem providing you the dyno PDF files via my private e-mail.
#3
Quiet, Rika Neenja!
so on an 04 AT, would it be unreasonable to think I could be over 300fwhp and in the mid 13's quarter mile if I have:
CAI, TB Spacer, IM/TB gaskets, UR pulley, No Cats, ATLP J pipe, Custom Borla exhaust?
CAI, TB Spacer, IM/TB gaskets, UR pulley, No Cats, ATLP J pipe, Custom Borla exhaust?
#5
94 DC4 RS LSV/Turbo
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Yes you'd be right over 300hp with those mods, but you'd have to completely unrestrict that exhaust with a 3" tubing :nunja:
Assuming the you decide to s/c
Assuming the you decide to s/c
#6
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
I offloaded all of the COMPTECH dynos for their website during front-end of the organization's ownership transition.
I do remember that their dyno for the Gen3 TL with an auto trans & with their 'full build' (i.e., supercharger, icebox cai, catback) was 288 whp. COMPTECH's advertisement also claimed an additional 5 whp for the MT version, though no separate dyno was ever provided.
I'm not on this site enough to familiarize myself with uploading of PDFs & JPEGs. Also, I currently am not registered on any FTP site to facilitate posting graphics. However, I have no problem providing you the dyno PDF files via my private e-mail.
I do remember that their dyno for the Gen3 TL with an auto trans & with their 'full build' (i.e., supercharger, icebox cai, catback) was 288 whp. COMPTECH's advertisement also claimed an additional 5 whp for the MT version, though no separate dyno was ever provided.
I'm not on this site enough to familiarize myself with uploading of PDFs & JPEGs. Also, I currently am not registered on any FTP site to facilitate posting graphics. However, I have no problem providing you the dyno PDF files via my private e-mail.
I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in seeing those.
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#8
runnin a little boost
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Originally Posted by SRT-11
so on an 04 AT, would it be unreasonable to think I could be over 300fwhp and in the mid 13's quarter mile if I have:
CAI, TB Spacer, IM/TB gaskets, UR pulley, No Cats, ATLP J pipe, Custom Borla exhaust?
CAI, TB Spacer, IM/TB gaskets, UR pulley, No Cats, ATLP J pipe, Custom Borla exhaust?
#11
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I see many PEAK power level increases being offered. But, that is not the goal of this thread. The goal is to qualify the gains based on the usable RPM range without “twisting” the tach beyond 6500. What is the percentage increase at 4500 RPM, at 5500 RPM and 6500 RPM. Then, let’s average those three values to get an AVERAGE HP GAIN between 4500-6500 RPM. That is my goal with this thread.
#12
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I've seen crazy jumps of 50+ at the 4k rpm range on some of these guys dyno charts...
see if 04 accord coupe can provide you with a quick sheet, he is always at the dyno lol
see if 04 accord coupe can provide you with a quick sheet, he is always at the dyno lol
#13
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Inaccurate
I see many PEAK power level increases being offered. But, that is not the goal of this thread. The goal is to qualify the gains based on the usable RPM range without “twisting” the tach beyond 6500. What is the percentage increase at 4500 RPM, at 5500 RPM and 6500 RPM. Then, let’s average those three values to get an AVERAGE HP GAIN between 4500-6500 RPM. That is my goal with this thread.
For whatever reason, I've heard reports that full boost doesn't come in until near redline which is very odd. It may have been done that way to deal with detonation problems since they will usually show up at lower rpms and full boost and the kit comes with a very primitive so called engine management.
The bypass valve may be set up to control when boost comes in. If so, you could probably alter the powerband but it might require more octane to be safe.
Personally, I think a centrifugal supercharger would have been a better route if peak hp was all they were going after.
Anyone with a blown TL, I would like to hear comments as to when boost starts coming in and where you get full boost.
#15
I've always thought "roots-style" blowers were designed for low end power and torque. This means your s/c'd TL should be hitting full boost at a low rpm. Personally, if comptech doesn't come out with a blower for the 3g type-s I'm going to look into a custom turbo. I'm just concerned about the high compresion of the 3.5L motor.
#16
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
I offloaded all of the COMPTECH dynos for their website during front-end of the organization's ownership transition.
I do remember that their dyno for the Gen3 TL with an auto trans & with their 'full build' (i.e., supercharger, icebox cai, catback) was 288 whp. COMPTECH's advertisement also claimed an additional 5 whp for the MT version, though no separate dyno was ever provided.
I'm not on this site enough to familiarize myself with uploading of PDFs & JPEGs. Also, I currently am not registered on any FTP site to facilitate posting graphics. However, I have no problem providing you the dyno PDF files via my private e-mail.
I do remember that their dyno for the Gen3 TL with an auto trans & with their 'full build' (i.e., supercharger, icebox cai, catback) was 288 whp. COMPTECH's advertisement also claimed an additional 5 whp for the MT version, though no separate dyno was ever provided.
I'm not on this site enough to familiarize myself with uploading of PDFs & JPEGs. Also, I currently am not registered on any FTP site to facilitate posting graphics. However, I have no problem providing you the dyno PDF files via my private e-mail.
Below is one of the graphs that Snookynibbles sent -
Now we can answer the question "What is the HP gain in the usable RPM range without twisting the tach beyond 6500 ?
I averaged the HP figures in the range of 4300 to 6500 RPM. These figures were choosen because the auto trans shifts at 6500 RPM and the rpm drops to 4300 with each shift.
The S/C makes 14% more HP than CatBack.
The TL Diet makes 22% more HP than the CatBack.
The TL Diet makes 7% more HP than the S/C.
The S/C makes an average of 29 HP more than CatBack.
The TL Diet makes an average of 45 HP more than CatBack.
I wish to thanks Snookynibbles for supplying the graphs.
#17
Senior Moderator
I wonder how much power a dieted TL with supercharger and other mods will get... maybe in the 350WHP range...
#18
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Well that is an easy one to answer.
Take the Comptech published HP of 280 HP (at 6500 RPM), and then multiple by 1.225. The answer is 343 HP.
That is what I like about the TL Diet. There is no iffy tuning required. Just a guaranteed 22.5% increase with no if-and-or-but.
Take the Comptech published HP of 280 HP (at 6500 RPM), and then multiple by 1.225. The answer is 343 HP.
That is what I like about the TL Diet. There is no iffy tuning required. Just a guaranteed 22.5% increase with no if-and-or-but.
#20
B16 Swapped TL
Superchargers are not miracle power adders.... remember you are adding a supercharger to an engine not designed for one..... so the power gains are going to be somewhat limited compared to an engine that may be designed for one.
#22
OMGWTF4THGENTL
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by SporkLover
Superchargers are not miracle power adders.... remember you are adding a supercharger to an engine not designed for one..... so the power gains are going to be somewhat limited compared to an engine that may be designed for one.
Originally Posted by JJaber06
Supercharger is kind of useless without the Hondata tuning, which doesn't seem to be coming out any time soon.
I wouldn't say it's useless by any means... and the Hondata tuning, again, is clearly overhyped. The promise of 50+ additional HP and removal of a very nominal surge complaint (that I have yet to really notice), is what's promised, yet of all the testers out there, I've never seen anything to support those claims, other than a few that said the surge is gone and the power delivery more smooth...
As "primitive" as the ACM is, it's not bad. certainly not as bad as all the folks here talk about... especially those that have never expereinced it... yet talk about how bad it is.
Granted, it makes most of it's power over the higher rpm band... that's an issue of engine dynamics... The TL NA makes most it's power in the higher RPM's too. You want crazy torque, low end power?... Go buy a V8 or diesel... or take the TL on a diet.
JJ, you should come down for a test ride before calling the SuperCharger "basically useless"
#23
B16 Swapped TL
Originally Posted by Kennedy
That has nothing to do with anything. The Comptech SC could easily be tuned to push 8-10 lbs of boost and add more fule via higher flow fuel injectors... It has to do with reliability. The bottom end of the engine is weak... adding 150 HP via that much boost will certainly blow it up. It was "decided" to make the SC low output to keep the car driveable/reliable.
My only point was you can only throw soooo much boost at a stock engine before you start running into issues.... hence it not being a miracle power adder.
#25
horny =
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate
Well that is an easy one to answer.
Take the Comptech published HP of 280 HP (at 6500 RPM), and then multiple by 1.225. The answer is 343 HP.
That is what I like about the TL Diet. There is no iffy tuning required. Just a guaranteed 22.5% increase with no if-and-or-but.
Take the Comptech published HP of 280 HP (at 6500 RPM), and then multiple by 1.225. The answer is 343 HP.
That is what I like about the TL Diet. There is no iffy tuning required. Just a guaranteed 22.5% increase with no if-and-or-but.
Also would the above consider the added weight from the sc?
#26
Team Owner
Originally Posted by ssmtl2nv
whoever told you guys the tl wasnt designed for boost, lied. First of all it is low compression and kicks ass at throttle. So instead of assuming, ask.
#27
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Originally Posted by ssmtl2nv
whoever told you guys the tl wasnt designed for boost, lied. First of all it is low compression and kicks ass at throttle. So instead of assuming, ask.
11:1 compression?
#29
Originally Posted by Kennedy
That has nothing to do with anything. The Comptech SC could easily be tuned to push 8-10 lbs of boost and add more fule via higher flow fuel injectors... It has to do with reliability. The bottom end of the engine is weak... adding 150 HP via that much boost will certainly blow it up. It was "decided" to make the SC low output to keep the car driveable/reliable.
I wouldn't say it's useless by any means... and the Hondata tuning, again, is clearly overhyped. The promise of 50+ additional HP and removal of a very nominal surge complaint (that I have yet to really notice), is what's promised, yet of all the testers out there, I've never seen anything to support those claims, other than a few that said the surge is gone and the power delivery more smooth...
As "primitive" as the ACM is, it's not bad. certainly not as bad as all the folks here talk about... especially those that have never expereinced it... yet talk about how bad it is.
Granted, it makes most of it's power over the higher rpm band... that's an issue of engine dynamics... The TL NA makes most it's power in the higher RPM's too. You want crazy torque, low end power?... Go buy a V8 or diesel... or take the TL on a diet.
JJ, you should come down for a test ride before calling the SuperCharger "basically useless"
I wouldn't say it's useless by any means... and the Hondata tuning, again, is clearly overhyped. The promise of 50+ additional HP and removal of a very nominal surge complaint (that I have yet to really notice), is what's promised, yet of all the testers out there, I've never seen anything to support those claims, other than a few that said the surge is gone and the power delivery more smooth...
As "primitive" as the ACM is, it's not bad. certainly not as bad as all the folks here talk about... especially those that have never expereinced it... yet talk about how bad it is.
Granted, it makes most of it's power over the higher rpm band... that's an issue of engine dynamics... The TL NA makes most it's power in the higher RPM's too. You want crazy torque, low end power?... Go buy a V8 or diesel... or take the TL on a diet.
JJ, you should come down for a test ride before calling the SuperCharger "basically useless"
#31
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by bent09
Just curious, how much your diet cost?
Also would the above consider the added weight from the sc?
Also would the above consider the added weight from the sc?
Good catch regarding the weight of the blower. No. I didn't include the weight of the blower.
#34
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Kennedy
That has nothing to do with anything. The Comptech SC could easily be tuned to push 8-10 lbs of boost and add more fule via higher flow fuel injectors... It has to do with reliability. The bottom end of the engine is weak... adding 150 HP via that much boost will certainly blow it up. It was "decided" to make the SC low output to keep the car driveable/reliable.
I wouldn't say it's useless by any means... and the Hondata tuning, again, is clearly overhyped. The promise of 50+ additional HP and removal of a very nominal surge complaint (that I have yet to really notice), is what's promised, yet of all the testers out there, I've never seen anything to support those claims, other than a few that said the surge is gone and the power delivery more smooth...
As "primitive" as the ACM is, it's not bad. certainly not as bad as all the folks here talk about... especially those that have never expereinced it... yet talk about how bad it is.
Granted, it makes most of it's power over the higher rpm band... that's an issue of engine dynamics... The TL NA makes most it's power in the higher RPM's too. You want crazy torque, low end power?... Go buy a V8 or diesel... or take the TL on a diet.
JJ, you should come down for a test ride before calling the SuperCharger "basically useless"
I wouldn't say it's useless by any means... and the Hondata tuning, again, is clearly overhyped. The promise of 50+ additional HP and removal of a very nominal surge complaint (that I have yet to really notice), is what's promised, yet of all the testers out there, I've never seen anything to support those claims, other than a few that said the surge is gone and the power delivery more smooth...
As "primitive" as the ACM is, it's not bad. certainly not as bad as all the folks here talk about... especially those that have never expereinced it... yet talk about how bad it is.
Granted, it makes most of it's power over the higher rpm band... that's an issue of engine dynamics... The TL NA makes most it's power in the higher RPM's too. You want crazy torque, low end power?... Go buy a V8 or diesel... or take the TL on a diet.
JJ, you should come down for a test ride before calling the SuperCharger "basically useless"
I'm not saying it's designed for boost, just saying it's an octane issue, not strength issue.
With the roots style blower, no matter what the NA powerband is like, there should be a huge jump in low end torque and a smaller gain in top end. A supercharged/turbocharged engine will usually make it's peak torque at whatever rpm it hits full boost.
This setup is really inefficient. It hits full boost at a high rpm which is where the roots is least efficient and it doesn't take advantage of the huge low end boost it should provide. You would be better off getting a centrifugal blower so at least the top end charge would be better. I know the blower works but there is so much more left in this setup with proper tuning, especially in the low/mid rpms. An extra 50+hp in the middle should easily be attainable.
#37
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Regarding the strength of the J32 to take boost…
I have dabbled with the thought of the blower or Nox for my TL. After reading several cases of TL guys blowing the J32’s head gasket when pushed hard with either the blower or Nox, I am damn sure that I am not doing either to my car.
I have dabbled with the thought of the blower or Nox for my TL. After reading several cases of TL guys blowing the J32’s head gasket when pushed hard with either the blower or Nox, I am damn sure that I am not doing either to my car.
#38
Originally Posted by Inaccurate
Regarding the strength of the J32 to take boost…
I have dabbled with the thought of the blower or Nox for my TL. After reading several cases of TL guys blowing the J32’s head gasket when pushed hard with either the blower or Nox, I am damn sure that I am not doing either to my car.
I have dabbled with the thought of the blower or Nox for my TL. After reading several cases of TL guys blowing the J32’s head gasket when pushed hard with either the blower or Nox, I am damn sure that I am not doing either to my car.
A supercharger pushing 4PSI really can't do that much damage unless you're constantly bouncing off the rev limiter.
#39
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Agreed. That is why I used bold text for "when pushed hard". In all cases that I saw, the owner was pushing beyond the advised limits. But, these cases do give us a feel for what the "weak link" is and when this weak link can be provoked to fail. For me, I want a big margin between me and this “weak link”.
#40
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Inaccurate
Agreed. That is why I used bold text for "when pushed hard". In all cases that I saw, the owner was pushing beyond the advised limits. But, these cases do give us a feel for what the "weak link" is and when this weak link can be provoked to fail. For me, I want a big margin between me and this “weak link”.