I have been talking to shawon at P2R he makes a camshafts for our cars. His biggest problem is that people dont wanna spend 700 for a set. I will im taking a roll car 14-25hp stock.
1. Beachexotic03

 

i say try it and see what happens....my friend installed some cams on an 2006 ser altima auto and he said the car was an animal with them installed almost like it had vtech he said and would spin the tires once it hit about 4700 rpm.....

 

These will fit all models, base and type s?

1. Beachexotic03
2. TheWanderer316 (07 TL-S)

 

what is the difference with the p2r ones? Does the profile of the cam's themselves change?

 

it should. i put 07 type s cams in my 05 m/t. installing cams in our cars is not a "drop in" procedure. its slightly more complicated. the intake has to come off, the valve covers, timing belt, (you may need a good impact gun with a universal socket to remove the cam gear bolts) the rocker assemblies, and then the cams slide out of the rear of the head through an access cover. its not too bad, if you're mechanically inclined. good luck! webcam makes a cam too fyi.

 

interested as always. so jdmspec333 did the type s cam help?

 

1. Beachexotic03
2. TheWanderer316 (07 TL-S)
3. Xoulu (04 5AT)

by the way did the type s cam give any hp gains?

 

Please PM astro about becoming a vendor or your vendor becoming a vendor before you start any lists or discuss prices.

 

i'm sure it did. i don't know exactly how much, i did a lot of other things all at once. tb, cai, ur pulley, exhaust, 3rd cat delete, thermoblok, tb heater bypass. i know its better than before, i just don't know what contributions each has made.

 

I thought we are unsure if the cam will make any noticeable gains due to the fact we won't tune the car.

I only say this because some suggest that dropping a TL type-S cam into a base TL won't do anything, although I think it might help, who knows for sure.

By the way cams sound awesome.

 

X 2

 

the cam will make some kind of difference, as the lift is a bit higher. my machine shop could not tell me the duration of the cams, but did do a comparison with the stock cams and told me that there is definitely a difference. tl-s cams are also a hollow core design which makes them lighter. (less rotational inertia) <-- i think that's it?

 

hmn..... so if everything follows through we are looking at 700 for cams before install?

 

The camshafts will made according to your set up you wanna run.

 

just in case you didn't read the mods post, we can't talk pricing w/o vendor status. They'll close the thread if numbers get thrown around. Not hating, just want to keep the discussion rolling

 

The Price isn't quite set in stone but give P2R a call they will to make the set of cams you want for roughtly that price. If we can spend 22-40g on TL we can shell out $$$ without a problem. Now i plan on getting a set that will allow me to max out N/A and fallow by nitrous. I plan on going Evo hunting. I hear alot of people complain suppliers dont make the parts. But i see no one saying they will pay. Im going to pay bottom line somoene has to.

 

I just checked and a pair of type-s cams can be had for about $300 before shipping.

It would be nice to know the profile numbers of these vs what P2R is proposing to see what the differences are.

jdmspec333, do you know if the type-s cams had any influence on A/F or EGT?

 

it's just a cam. as long as the cam isn't too radical, it won't affect the a/f or the egt. the ecm will always bring it to 14.7:1. unless you have tuning.

 

Hah. Silly me, I just caught that now.
Okay, lets say if we do want to replace the camshafts, on average how much would a shop charge for the install?

 

When the import vendors rape the consumers in price, don't expect too many people wanting to buy. $700 for 2 cams? Forget it. $200 for a lightweight pulley? Forget it. $1,000 for an exhaust, forget it. I'll stick with modding domestics where the vendors don't make a 500% profit and you get some real gains. Just because we can afford a TL doesn't mean we should bend over and take it in the ass.

You do realize that there are nitrous grind cams, right? Getting a cam that will help you max out NA is not the best cam for nitrous.

EVO hunting? What are you setting your goals so low? It's a freaking 13 second car with a good driver.

 

Spot on, if the Type-S cam can be had for $300, then I don't see why a vendor supplied one would be $700. I guess R&D costs, although those can be recovered with 2 sales.

 

how about cam for SC =)

 

truer words never spoken. cheers!

 

Part of the reason I mention this is I raced one from a roll in my 5AT TL and did a very slow pull away from him. This is not the norm but the TL and older EVOs are not that far apart in a roll race. The hype comes from the fact that like most turbo cars they can be made fast relatively easily and a 1.6 60' on street tires doesn't hurt either.

I would like to point out that my previous post was not aimed at anyone. Just my frustration with the cost of parts for imports. For the price of a full exhaust on the TL I can get a set of heads for the Buick. For the price of an CAI and pulley, I can get a bigger turbo. For the price of a couple thermo gaskets and a throttlebody spacer, I can get a big cam and lifters. Not pointing out how cheap my Buick is but rather how overpriced the TL stuff is.

 

The evo you raced must have been broken, those cars easily trap over 100mph stock which is more than enough to walk away from a 6spd TL-S let alone a 5AT TL. Lets not forget a trip to the hardware store can net 30-40hp on them.

It's not that TL stuff is expensive its just new and hasn't been around long, you obviously know how long your GN has been around, just like you can buy a cam for an LS1 and gain 30-40whp for 300 dollars, manufacturers have been making parts for engines like yours and other domestic cars for YEARS and YEARS. Hence making the demand for new technology non-existant. I'm sure if you tryed to buy a C-Back or an aftermarket turbo for your GN in 87 you'd be paying top dollar just like we are now.

Minus the horrible inflation that has happend since the good ol day's. To bad I wasn't alive to witness them.

 

You're partially right but a big part of the reason parts are so expensive is people are willing to pay an arm and a leg for them. Take the LS1 for instance, the cams are totally different than the previous gen SBC, the only thing they have in common is the bore centers yet the aftermarket cams were fairly priced when they first came out.


I agree, like I said the EVO along with most turbo cars have very good gains with the first few cheap mods. In the GN world in the old days, we just unbolted the exhaust after the downpipe since the turbo quieted it nicely, adjusted the wastegate rod for more boost, chip and air filter and you dropped 1.5 seconds off of stock. Cost was $100. It was great since I was a kid in highschool and broke.

The engines these days, especially imports come more highly tuned and optimized from the factory and that's part of the reason we don't see big gains. Still, whatever the reason, I wouldn't think about spending the money some people do on little mods that may or may not make more power.

 

First of all with out the ability to tune the car cams are going to be a difficult sell.

Second evo hunting.... good luck!! Ya the evo is a low 13 second car stock. Who has a stock evo!! 5k in an evo on your in the 11's. The evo takes so good to mods it is nearly impossible to find one with out a few bolt ons and a tune. Don't get me started, I have both and there isn't a street legal tl that could keep up with it. Now on the flip side I'm driving down to SD this weekend in the TL. The evo sucks as a commuter and has no luxury in comparison.

 

Your also partially right, you say its because people will pay it ? So what happens if we all just quit buying ? Their not going to lower the price, their just going to stop making it. Our market is such a small blip on the radar they could care less if we bought from them or not.

Yah, turbo cars ftw btw. I'm a huge first generation Eclipse/Talon/Laser aka anything with a 4g63 engine. A socket set, screwdriver & an FAQ on one of those engines and you'll run 13's for free .

And as far as you guys saying that your not going to see gains with cam's w/o tuning, I call you crazy. Obviously the gains will not be as great w/o a method to tune with, but your going to see great gains either way if the cam is designed correctly.

 

Cams improve performance by moving the torque curve higher in the RPM range. Just like a blower "stuffs" more A/F mixture into the engine, the cam increases performance by "moving" (versus compressing) more A/F mixture within a given time frame. Therefore, the extra HP will be reaped only at higher than normal RPM's.

And......the TL has a built-in rev limiter preventing a longer duration camshaft from "doing it's thing". So, without a method to tune, you are SOL with a longer duration camshaft.

 

May I add that if it is an aggressive cam your idle will be questionable with a tune. Just my experience.

 

If my memory serves me, this is call reversion. The rough idle is because the large overlap due to the large duration allows exhaust gases to "pollute" the intake charge. Once the RPM levels raise, exhaust scavenging takes over to prevent the exhaust from entering "back" thru the intake valve during the overlap period.

 

The biggest problem is with a cam that makes the engine lope, your cats will be shot within the first day of driving. Hydrocarbons go through the roof. NOx goes down and octane requirement "can" go down too. Now if they left the "small" intake lobe alone and only did the "big" lobe it wouldn't hurt drivability. One of the only advantages to vtec.

 

I'm also a big fan of the first gen turbo Eclipse.

Whether or not they quit making a part doesn't change the fact that they're grossly overpriced and no one wants to pay $700 for a 10 peak hp gain and lose low end torque in the process. The TL is not like an LS1 which is undercammed from the factory and can pick up 40hp at the wheels from a simple $200 cam swap. The TL is already fairly aggressively cammed and I guarantee with or without a tune, you're not going to get more than 15hp to the wheels probably less for $700 plus installation.

The TL is a very poor platform to start with. We can't run more than 5psi boost due to the compression and the only kit offered is a non-intercooled roots blower with stone-age tuning. NA it's pretty much maxed out. With every bolt on in the world you pick up 50whp at best. Both the manual and auto transmissions are nearly maxed from the factory and putting slicks on a 300hp TL would send it home on a tow truck.

At the end of the day, you will realize that the only sensible approach is nitrous with complementing exhaust mods or a supercharger with methanol injection. Even then you still have a 3,500lb FWD car with a weak transmission that runs 13s.

 

Generically speaking perhaps..... really depends on the grind and where the cam is designed to operate. It can open power equally across the power band. Cam profile specs really tell the tale.

On your comment WRT to the rev limiter..... should not be a factor, and revving generally should not be a factor with Duration..... Lift on the other hand yes. Big lift Cams typically bring power later in the power curve. There are plenty of revs in the stock motor though. High revs are not a requirement for power.

On my previous car (LS1) I preferred Mild Duration, Mild lift, with the fastest ramp rate I could find (224/224 Dur, .588/.588 lift, X-ER Lobes)... and with that type of cam typical gains for Cam only is 30-40'ish HP to the wheels. Opened power up everywhere in the band, and I could increase the rev limiter if I wanted to....but I didn't need to because the Cam wasn't designed to move the power that high into the power band. By stock redline the power peaked.

 

Well said.

 

Agreed. I have the fastest ramp speed 212-212 in the GN that I'm comfortable with using flat tappets. Ramp speed is the main reason we see gains going from the same duration flat tappet to a roller.

In the TL's case, I doubt you will see much because it's aggressively cammed already. In the LS1's case I read where an engineer said before the engine was released in the Vette that cams were going to become very popular in the aftermarket because they hit their power goals easily with a small cam and there was a lot left to be tapped into.