Best Guess?
02-18-2015, 06:00 PM
#1
Best Guess?
08 TL-S Auto. Car has PCD's, no 3rd cat, MM delete, air silencer delete. If you had to guess, how much hp I would gain at the wheels with the 3.7 intake mani, ZDX tb and a tune? GO!
Yes I have searched, I'm just bored at work right now and want to hear some fresh opinions.
Yes I have searched, I'm just bored at work right now and want to hear some fresh opinions.
02-18-2015, 11:42 PM
#3
Confusing Name Guy
Mani and TB is definitely in the 8 - 12 hp ballpark, Heeltoe actually has that in the description for the mani on their page.
Tune is harder to guess - the following is a good thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...lution-828338/
Although being a 2005 5AT, I never really looked at the Hondata tuning threads, which is the go-to option for you. I would imagine at least another 8 - 12 whp, so in theory up to 24 hp for everything. There are definitely more knowledgeable members in this area though so take this with a grain of salt
Tune is harder to guess - the following is a good thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...lution-828338/
Although being a 2005 5AT, I never really looked at the Hondata tuning threads, which is the go-to option for you. I would imagine at least another 8 - 12 whp, so in theory up to 24 hp for everything. There are definitely more knowledgeable members in this area though so take this with a grain of salt
02-19-2015, 01:12 PM
#6
No, OEM J-pipe. I just cut it out and welded in a test pipe. I'm honestly not sold on the J-pipe for power gains. I think any gains that would show up on a dyno are from deleting the 3rd cat. I honestly wouldn't even think about tuning it but it doesn't quite get back into vtec after each shift, especially 3-4 and that definitely hurts it, it may be worth it for that alone.
02-19-2015, 01:45 PM
#7
Registered Bike Offender
iTrader: (3)
You're better off getting a j-pipe to start with.
People have also mentioned bucking and rev hang with the larger throttle bodies. May not be worth it if you aren't also doing head work or forced induction.
People have also mentioned bucking and rev hang with the larger throttle bodies. May not be worth it if you aren't also doing head work or forced induction.
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02-19-2015, 01:49 PM
#8
Confusing Name Guy
^ Rev hang issues have been mainly reported on the 6MT cars if I'm not mistaken - You shouldn't have issues with the TB/Mani swap on a 5AT, and especially if you're getting it tuned.
But JPipe, HFPC, Exhaust and Intake itself should be the first mods you approach
But JPipe, HFPC, Exhaust and Intake itself should be the first mods you approach
02-19-2015, 02:13 PM
#9
Call my crazy, but I don't think a J-pipe is worth it. Haven't seen shit for dyno evidence for power gains that's not related to getting rid of the 3rd cat. The PCD's I installed last night were a great addition, very happy with them so far.
02-19-2015, 04:04 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
MM and air silencer delete don't do anything for you power wise. Just adds noise.
Last edited by FamilyGuy; 02-19-2015 at 04:07 PM.
02-19-2015, 06:29 PM
#11
The 3rd cat is only a 350 cell count. I'd guess somewhere in the 3-6hp range by removing it. Additional gains are from the larger diameter piping, mandrel bends and optimized layout. The OEM j pipe will become more of a bottle neck as you open up the intake and exhaust. Larger pipes eliminate the bottle neck and gain power. Too big can lose power, but OEM sizes are almost always under sized. So yea, you're crazy.
MM and air silencer delete don't do anything for you power wise. Just adds noise.
MM and air silencer delete don't do anything for you power wise. Just adds noise.
02-19-2015, 06:47 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
RV6 and Heeltoe have plenty of dynos. Check out their websites.
Keep in mind sellers typically advertise peak numbers, which is not what you get on avg across the rpm range, but overall it adds power over OEM. I'm a bit skeptic as to how much by itself myself, but with full exhaust and intake mods its a no brainer over the stock one.
Keep in mind sellers typically advertise peak numbers, which is not what you get on avg across the rpm range, but overall it adds power over OEM. I'm a bit skeptic as to how much by itself myself, but with full exhaust and intake mods its a no brainer over the stock one.
Last edited by FamilyGuy; 02-19-2015 at 06:50 PM.
02-19-2015, 07:16 PM
#13
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
^ agree with family guy there's no way the majority of a jpipes gains come from the 3rd cat delete but that did make me laugh.
There are dynos done by heeltoe for the jpipes. I've never deleted my 3rd cat and have run both with the oem 3rd and a high flow 3rd on an aftermarket jpipe. Both Had noticeable gains over the stock jpipe setup but unfortunately no dynos from me personally
Regarding the 3.7 switch, I don't think the bigger tb and the bucking/rev hang issues are worth the 1-3 hp over a bored oem tb. The manifold makes sense but there are threads and dynos on minimal gains from the 3.7 tb over a bored TB.
Interested to see your progress, do you have a progress thread yet for your plans?
There are dynos done by heeltoe for the jpipes. I've never deleted my 3rd cat and have run both with the oem 3rd and a high flow 3rd on an aftermarket jpipe. Both Had noticeable gains over the stock jpipe setup but unfortunately no dynos from me personally
Regarding the 3.7 switch, I don't think the bigger tb and the bucking/rev hang issues are worth the 1-3 hp over a bored oem tb. The manifold makes sense but there are threads and dynos on minimal gains from the 3.7 tb over a bored TB.
Interested to see your progress, do you have a progress thread yet for your plans?
02-19-2015, 09:18 PM
#14
^ agree with family guy there's no way the majority of a jpipes gains come from the 3rd cat delete but that did make me laugh.
There are dynos done by heeltoe for the jpipes. I've never deleted my 3rd cat and have run both with the oem 3rd and a high flow 3rd on an aftermarket jpipe. Both Had noticeable gains over the stock jpipe setup but unfortunately no dynos from me personally
Regarding the 3.7 switch, I don't think the bigger tb and the bucking/rev hang issues are worth the 1-3 hp over a bored oem tb. The manifold makes sense but there are threads and dynos on minimal gains from the 3.7 tb over a bored TB.
Interested to see your progress, do you have a progress thread yet for your plans?
There are dynos done by heeltoe for the jpipes. I've never deleted my 3rd cat and have run both with the oem 3rd and a high flow 3rd on an aftermarket jpipe. Both Had noticeable gains over the stock jpipe setup but unfortunately no dynos from me personally
Regarding the 3.7 switch, I don't think the bigger tb and the bucking/rev hang issues are worth the 1-3 hp over a bored oem tb. The manifold makes sense but there are threads and dynos on minimal gains from the 3.7 tb over a bored TB.
Interested to see your progress, do you have a progress thread yet for your plans?
As for your question, I'm not sure what my plans are. I used to be into fast cars, racing, but have since gotten away from that, too much money, too much time, etc... This is a car I told myself I would keep stock but things change. I know it will never be fast. I have tuned all my previous cars myself and many others on the dyno and street and if I get hondata, will tune this one myself as well. I just don't know if I want to spend $700 to keep a 14 second car a 14 second car.
Regarding the gains from a jpipe, I don't like to go by the manufacturer claims for obvious reasons. The only 2 dynos I can find from users had a 4whp gain and a 6whp loss. If someone else has a dyno that shows something else I'm all ears.
Last edited by v8eatr; 02-19-2015 at 09:32 PM.
02-19-2015, 09:30 PM
#15
Confusing Name Guy
As most people on here often say, the 3G TL is very much a "Pay to play" car, there's no way around it - Unless you're dedicated to the platform and want to get much more out of it, there's probably no reason to start modding.
As far as the j-pipe goes - Numerous people on here have dynos showing the Jpipe is a solid investment, especially if you get one used on the BM (they pop up relatively often). Alternately, you could probably grab one of Bruce's (one of the vendors here) new jpipes he's putting out along with an exhaust. Both are pretty much Magnaflow production, and I'd assume the quality that comes along with the name. Take a look at endlessrpm.com
Again, you're welcome to take everything said on here with a grain of salt but I think considering the amount of people that have given it a shining endorsement, I think its definitely worthwhile.
As far as the j-pipe goes - Numerous people on here have dynos showing the Jpipe is a solid investment, especially if you get one used on the BM (they pop up relatively often). Alternately, you could probably grab one of Bruce's (one of the vendors here) new jpipes he's putting out along with an exhaust. Both are pretty much Magnaflow production, and I'd assume the quality that comes along with the name. Take a look at endlessrpm.com
Again, you're welcome to take everything said on here with a grain of salt but I think considering the amount of people that have given it a shining endorsement, I think its definitely worthwhile.
02-19-2015, 11:23 PM
#16
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Really? You think you can feel a noticeable gain with just the jpipe? You think you can or it's louder and you equate that to more power. Especially since you haven't had it on the dyno yet.
As for your question, I'm not sure what my plans are. I used to be into fast cars, racing, but have since gotten away from that, too much money, too much time, etc... This is a car I told myself I would keep stock but things change. I know it will never be fast. I have tuned all my previous cars myself and many others on the dyno and street and if I get hondata, will tune this one myself as well. I just don't know if I want to spend $700 to keep a 14 second car a 14 second car.
Regarding the gains from a jpipe, I don't like to go by the manufacturer claims for obvious reasons. The only 2 dynos I can find from users had a 4whp gain and a 6whp loss. If someone else has a dyno that shows something else I'm all ears.
As for your question, I'm not sure what my plans are. I used to be into fast cars, racing, but have since gotten away from that, too much money, too much time, etc... This is a car I told myself I would keep stock but things change. I know it will never be fast. I have tuned all my previous cars myself and many others on the dyno and street and if I get hondata, will tune this one myself as well. I just don't know if I want to spend $700 to keep a 14 second car a 14 second car.
Regarding the gains from a jpipe, I don't like to go by the manufacturer claims for obvious reasons. The only 2 dynos I can find from users had a 4whp gain and a 6whp loss. If someone else has a dyno that shows something else I'm all ears.
Last edited by sockr1; 02-19-2015 at 11:37 PM.
02-20-2015, 12:27 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
As for your question, I'm not sure what my plans are. I used to be into fast cars, racing, but have since gotten away from that, too much money, too much time, etc... This is a car I told myself I would keep stock but things change. I know it will never be fast. I have tuned all my previous cars myself and many others on the dyno and street and if I get hondata, will tune this one myself as well. I just don't know if I want to spend $700 to keep a 14 second car a 14 second car.
You say you're not into it anymore, but you've already done PCDs and 3rd cat delete, and are asking for guesses on more, so you still got the mod bug
You have an auto, so I *think* you're looking at around 280 to the wheels doing all the usual bolt-ons and tune, maybe 290-300 with cams. Do some weight removal along with it and it may not be "fast" by today's standards, but it wont be a total slouch either. There's no magic 30-50hp single part you can simply bolt on in NA form for this car, as Acura engineers didn't leave much on the table...PCDs are about as good as it gets individually speaking, and you've already done that. Hondata isn't going to do much for you power wise, IIRC avg gains are about 10hp after all the bolt ons, and some torque on the low end, but I think those are from manual TLs, don't know about autos. Many do say it helps with throttle response and smooth things out across the rpm range, if that matters to you for drivability. Search, search and search some more. There's a ton of info here on Azine.
If you're looking for speed, you need to boost it, do nitrous, get a manual type s (even then it's not easy or cheap) or a different car altogether.
If you're looking to make the car just a bit better, sort of the OEM "+" route, then select some bolt ons, tune it, do the suspension, wheels / tires and audio if you're into that (or not), and just enjoy it dude, it's still a great car even today
Last edited by FamilyGuy; 02-20-2015 at 12:33 AM.
02-20-2015, 06:46 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
No, OEM J-pipe. I just cut it out and welded in a test pipe. I'm honestly not sold on the J-pipe for power gains. I think any gains that would show up on a dyno are from deleting the 3rd cat. I honestly wouldn't even think about tuning it but it doesn't quite get back into vtec after each shift, especially 3-4 and that definitely hurts it, it may be worth it for that alone.
A Cat-less TL and you say your not modding?!
02-20-2015, 06:50 AM
#20
I think the 1st thing you need to do is figure out a plan for the car, then just get it done little by little.
You say you're not into it anymore, but you've already done PCDs and 3rd cat delete, and are asking for guesses on more, so you still got the mod bug
You have an auto, so I *think* you're looking at around 280 to the wheels doing all the usual bolt-ons and tune, maybe 290-300 with cams. Do some weight removal along with it and it may not be "fast" by today's standards, but it wont be a total slouch either. There's no magic 30-50hp single part you can simply bolt on in NA form for this car, as Acura engineers didn't leave much on the table...PCDs are about as good as it gets individually speaking, and you've already done that. Hondata isn't going to do much for you power wise, IIRC avg gains are about 10hp after all the bolt ons, and some torque on the low end, but I think those are from manual TLs, don't know about autos. Many do say it helps with throttle response and smooth things out across the rpm range, if that matters to you for drivability. Search, search and search some more. There's a ton of info here on Azine.
If you're looking for speed, you need to boost it, do nitrous, get a manual type s (even then it's not easy or cheap) or a different car altogether.
If you're looking to make the car just a bit better, sort of the OEM "+" route, then select some bolt ons, tune it, do the suspension, wheels / tires and audio if you're into that (or not), and just enjoy it dude, it's still a great car even today
You say you're not into it anymore, but you've already done PCDs and 3rd cat delete, and are asking for guesses on more, so you still got the mod bug
You have an auto, so I *think* you're looking at around 280 to the wheels doing all the usual bolt-ons and tune, maybe 290-300 with cams. Do some weight removal along with it and it may not be "fast" by today's standards, but it wont be a total slouch either. There's no magic 30-50hp single part you can simply bolt on in NA form for this car, as Acura engineers didn't leave much on the table...PCDs are about as good as it gets individually speaking, and you've already done that. Hondata isn't going to do much for you power wise, IIRC avg gains are about 10hp after all the bolt ons, and some torque on the low end, but I think those are from manual TLs, don't know about autos. Many do say it helps with throttle response and smooth things out across the rpm range, if that matters to you for drivability. Search, search and search some more. There's a ton of info here on Azine.
If you're looking for speed, you need to boost it, do nitrous, get a manual type s (even then it's not easy or cheap) or a different car altogether.
If you're looking to make the car just a bit better, sort of the OEM "+" route, then select some bolt ons, tune it, do the suspension, wheels / tires and audio if you're into that (or not), and just enjoy it dude, it's still a great car even today
02-20-2015, 08:05 AM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Yea I hear ya. Unfortunately the auto trans and gear ratios are what hinder performance in this car. If it was a manual you can play with diff final drive ratios, but autos not sure what options you have. Hondata can help a bit I think. Talk to vittune.com
It is a fun car and great to drive, so either keep going and enjoy knowing anything else you do will make it quicker, or take a step back and look for a manual.
It is a fun car and great to drive, so either keep going and enjoy knowing anything else you do will make it quicker, or take a step back and look for a manual.
02-20-2015, 10:00 AM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Go for it, but finish your bolt ons first.
02-20-2015, 10:57 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
I think there are ways the auto guys get over the 4th gear wall but I forget how. Try to search for it. You're not the first to bump into this.
02-20-2015, 11:10 AM
#26
02-20-2015, 12:47 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Going from a 4spd Auto to a LS 5spd made a world of difference for my Integra LS. Now in my GSR, I am going to a 98 Spec Type R trans with a 4.7FD which will bring the car to life. My point is that the trans plays a massive part in the over all personality of the car. If you look at the ratios you can see why the 6MT's are hard to come by. That 4th gear in the auto is the devil lol
TL 6MT (FD: 3.285)
Gear/ Gear Ratio
1 ------ 3.933
2 ------ 2.478
3 ------ 1.700
4 ------ 1.250
5 ------ 0.975
6 ------ 0.770
TL Auto (FD: 4.428)
Gear/ Gear Ratio
1 ------ 2.563
2 ------ 1.552
3 ------ 1.021
4 ------ 0.666
5 ------ 0.480
02-20-2015, 01:02 PM
#28
You should set the VTEC point to smooth out the transition based on the mods you have and how YOUR car responses to them and not set it because you simply fall out of it during a 3-4 gear change, this also happens going from 1st to 2nd.
Going from a 4spd Auto to a LS 5spd made a world of difference for my Integra LS. Now in my GSR, I am going to a 98 Spec Type R trans with a 4.7FD which will bring the car to life. My point is that the trans plays a massive part in the over all personality of the car. If you look at the ratios you can see why the 6MT's are hard to come by. That 4th gear in the auto is the devil lol
TL 6MT (FD: 3.285)
Gear/ Gear Ratio
1 ------ 3.933
2 ------ 2.478
3 ------ 1.700
4 ------ 1.250
5 ------ 0.975
6 ------ 0.770
TL Auto (FD: 4.428)
Gear/ Gear Ratio
1 ------ 2.563
2 ------ 1.552
3 ------ 1.021
4 ------ 0.666
5 ------ 0.480
Going from a 4spd Auto to a LS 5spd made a world of difference for my Integra LS. Now in my GSR, I am going to a 98 Spec Type R trans with a 4.7FD which will bring the car to life. My point is that the trans plays a massive part in the over all personality of the car. If you look at the ratios you can see why the 6MT's are hard to come by. That 4th gear in the auto is the devil lol
TL 6MT (FD: 3.285)
Gear/ Gear Ratio
1 ------ 3.933
2 ------ 2.478
3 ------ 1.700
4 ------ 1.250
5 ------ 0.975
6 ------ 0.770
TL Auto (FD: 4.428)
Gear/ Gear Ratio
1 ------ 2.563
2 ------ 1.552
3 ------ 1.021
4 ------ 0.666
5 ------ 0.480
02-20-2015, 01:10 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Do you guys really believe its not going to be beneficial to lower the vtec point a couple hundred rpm so the car stays in vtec the whole time? It will be absolutely helpful. How much? Who knows, I will find out when I go to the strip and make a couple passes with the car shifting in auto mode and a couple in manual mode revving it out a bit higher where it doesn't drop off so bad.
No...set it so you make the most power for your set-up. here's an example of VTEC set to high 
02-20-2015, 01:20 PM
#30
That requires dropping it by a couple hundred rpm, not a big deal. Those auto ratios are awful, yuck. Great for highway mileage but I would guess my 4th gear goes till about 170 haha.
02-20-2015, 02:03 PM
#32
All motor
On a serious note, the 3.7 intake manifold/TB/ported runners (untuned) gave me 15whp/8wtq. Now, I am 6MT and had full bolt ons at that point, but the 3.5 also responds better to bolt ons than my 3.0, which should nullify the AT/MT discrepancy. With that said, it should definitely be worth it for you. I gained 2mph in trap and 3+ cars on the street with this setup along with an upgraded 4" CAI that replaced my AEM V1.
In regards to your woes about the Jpipe, it is certainly worth it. While there really aren't any before/after dynos of the stock Jpipe and an aftermarket after the installation of PCDs, your exhaust flows only as good as your most restricted point.
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Vlad_Type_S (02-20-2015)
02-20-2015, 03:19 PM
#33
I'm starting to question what kind of v8s you eat...
On a serious note, the 3.7 intake manifold/TB/ported runners (untuned) gave me 15whp/8wtq. Now, I am 6MT and had full bolt ons at that point, but the 3.5 also responds better to bolt ons than my 3.0, which should nullify the AT/MT discrepancy. With that said, it should definitely be worth it for you. I gained 2mph in trap and 3+ cars on the street with this setup along with an upgraded 4" CAI that replaced my AEM V1.
In regards to your woes about the Jpipe, it is certainly worth it. While there really aren't any before/after dynos of the stock Jpipe and an aftermarket after the installation of PCDs, your exhaust flows only as good as your most restricted point.
On a serious note, the 3.7 intake manifold/TB/ported runners (untuned) gave me 15whp/8wtq. Now, I am 6MT and had full bolt ons at that point, but the 3.5 also responds better to bolt ons than my 3.0, which should nullify the AT/MT discrepancy. With that said, it should definitely be worth it for you. I gained 2mph in trap and 3+ cars on the street with this setup along with an upgraded 4" CAI that replaced my AEM V1.
In regards to your woes about the Jpipe, it is certainly worth it. While there really aren't any before/after dynos of the stock Jpipe and an aftermarket after the installation of PCDs, your exhaust flows only as good as your most restricted point.
02-20-2015, 03:51 PM
#34
All motor
I was only teasing haha. But yes, the 3.7 manifold/TB is definitely worth your while. Besides the HP/TQ I gained in the low RPM (because I went from stock IM deleted butterflies to intact butterflies with the 3.7), the power gain was all in VTEC. It really helped the top end and is a great OEM upgrade.
02-20-2015, 05:00 PM
#35
Confusing Name Guy
^ Sonnick, what would you suggest in the way of CAI if I'm planning on going with a 3.7 mani/TB swap - I was going to go with a AEM V2 but should I just hold off and custom fab a 4"?
Also, how beneficial will PnP on the mani / TB be, or would it only be worthwhile if I do the manifold runners at the same time? Would love some feedback as I'm in a similar boat - 2005 5AT TL with most of my bolt ons ready to go, just looking at the TB and Mani swap and RL cams to finish it off.
Also, how beneficial will PnP on the mani / TB be, or would it only be worthwhile if I do the manifold runners at the same time? Would love some feedback as I'm in a similar boat - 2005 5AT TL with most of my bolt ons ready to go, just looking at the TB and Mani swap and RL cams to finish it off.
02-22-2015, 07:12 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
I'm with you as well. I've been on the forum for years and have read everything about the J-Pipes since they first came out. Would be nice to see some dyno numbers versus stock. Without hard facts, I'm not going to be a buyer.
02-23-2015, 09:04 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Keep in mind the j pipe is just one section of the exhaust. Not gonna blow you away by itself with stock cats and exhaust (cat-back). In my opinion doing the full exhaust is worth it, and the j pipe is a component of that exhaust. So all depends on what your plans are. You already did PCDs, so a j pipe will further help.
02-23-2015, 01:40 PM
#39
Mr. Detail
If you've actually removed the 3rd cat, you should know how little restriction there is in it. A long tube J-pipe that eliminates the 3rd cat will give you noticeable torque gains.
02-23-2015, 01:46 PM
#40
Mr. Detail
YCU Dyno Comparison: XLR8 V1 J-Pipe w/ RV6 Test Pipe vs. XLR8 V2 J-Pipe - Honda-Tech
After the install the initial results were the following.
XLR8 V2: 222.416 whp 188.071 wtq
XLR8 V1 with RV6 Test Pipe: 215.371 whp 180.825 wtq
Gains: 7.045 whp 7.246 wtq
After resetting the ecu and giving it time to recalibrate itself for the installation of the V2 XLR8 J-Pipe, we found our peak average results. Now here are the final results with the chart below.
XLR8 V2: 225.769 whp 189.962 wtq
XLR8 V1 with RV6 Test Pipe: 215.371 whp 180.825 wtq
Gains: 10.398 whp 9.137 wtq