greco9885

iTrader: (1)

My friend is getting new tunes for his clients MB and BMW, he asked the guy if he can tune my car. The guy said yes, ecu/tcu tune for $1500. BTW its not local, the ecu/tcu must be shipped to him. I want to do it, but it makes me really nervous because this is his first acura. And not to mention the fact that no one else can tune the car, but this guy says he can. Also the possibility of the car blowing up

What do you guys think? My friend really didn't pick this guys brain, but he seems really confident he can do it.

Also if anyone could FULLY explain WHY our cars can't be tuned would be great. I really don't understand why not, from what I think is right, its because of the drive by wire?

Bearcat94

How does he know he can do if your's is his first one?


You'd think if he knew how to do it already, someone else must have been first.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

BUT, if you think he can go for it!

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

Well I don't know if its his first one, but I am assuming since no one has tuned our cars before.

pffpffpass

iTrader: (2)

I would too like to know why it is we cant be tuned.. There are plenty of Drive by wire that are fully tunable..

Can someone chime in?

csmeance

from my understanding, the TL's system is hard to tune since piggy-backs change only a few parameters, and those quickly get over-ridden by the stock ecu...

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ yes, but the same problem was with the TSX ECU, and hondata made a "dual' ecu system, that i believe allows you to retain VSA/ABS and all that good stuff

There are a million speculations why our cars cant be tuned... i think its honestly lack of demand for it... people used to say it was the DBW... then something about closed/open loop system functionality in the 3G TL... i think its just plain ol' L A Z Y

TheWanderer316 had a shop do a piggy back with a greddy emanage, but they didnt do a "before" dyno, so theres no real proof

the type-s thread, the guy seems to have claimed to "cracked" our ECU, and/or used the Comptech ACM in conjunction with the 3G Type-S ECU... The Comptech ACM controls most of the things we would look for in tuning our cars....

another thing, if the TL is gonna get a really good tune.. you need to upgrade your fuel system... and not just crushing the FPR, but a new pump... like a walbro 255... which NO BODY has ever put on a 3G yet

Believe me... i have done so much homework on this.. but never got a straight answer

until somebody steps up to the plate, and attempts to tune this car, we may never see success

also, since the car is already running a high compression rate, a slight mishap in tuning and dyno'ing, could result in knock or detonation.. which will f**k your engine up bad

my

TheWanderer316

iTrader: (7)

I think racing hart has an upgraded fuel pump installed on his car.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

really? ... i didnt know that...

but just the upgraded pump does nothing alone.. you need to convince the car to dump more fuel in

bforbrian

iTrader: (11)

wait a minute

now that i hark back on it, grecco-

were you on denton by the golf range/wize eyes/7-11 on sunday morning?

I saw a KBP TL-S there and am thinking it was you.. I was at a stoplight behind some cars

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ B... theres a KBP type-s with aspec kit in my neighborhood... car drives past my house like 3 times a day...i've yet to see/talk to the owner

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

there's some ass bag on my street with a TL S and when i went to look at it (from the road in my type s) he sticks his head out the window and screams "HEY, WTF do you think your doing!" ... uh looking at your car? "Well don't! Now get out of here!" so i go down 2 houses and pull into my spot, lol. What a douche, sorry i tried to see if you had done anything to your ride.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

You can't run an walboro 255 without upgrading your entire fuel lines and rails to a full-return system. Also, a big problem is the closed loop system..ecu's are pretty smart and ours always want to revert to the stock settings even with a piggyback unit thus making it hard to tune and really limiting the FI/C options. I would still go this route and see what else it can do...you won't be able to advance timing or get too fancy but accord ppl have had success with this.

I haven't run into a huge problem with fuel even with the 3.5L conversion. I did however notice I was leaning out pretty bad in the midrange so I got an initial tune this weekend using the AEM FI/C to stabilize the A/F to a pretty constant 11.8. All we really did was mess with the (upgraded) injectors to get more fuel. I was happy to see the A/F ratio on my car stabilize, and along with the hondata reflash I think I might be OK. But seriously $1500?? for a guy that hasn't had any proven success??? Hondata messed with my ecu for MONTHS and MONTHS and finally got to what was supposed to be a good tune, then i blew my piston rings and they're the best in the world with honda ecu's so go figure.

BTW I have some dyno graphs etc from this weekend...I just need to find a scanner.

Rick_TL-S

So, if the ecu keeps wanting to revert back to stock settings, even with a piggyback, is there anything more that can be done, or has Honda created the most stubborn ecu?

BTW, good thread. I was beginning to get curious as to why I never read anyone posting about a new tune.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

probably not since I dont even know where that is

TL|GTX

You should print this page whole page out, and show it to him, and tell him, if this tune doesn't work and blows me engine, its ur fault
But i bet he wont do it.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

^

I actually think im meeting him when I go down to maryland and im definitely going to talk to him about all of this.

Tripnbeats

i dont feel this car can be tuned just by piggybacking a preprogrammed system onto it..... every motor is different because its not put together by hand.... and because its used differently by each owner.......a universal pnp piggyback would blow the motor, fast.... in reality each tl should be thown on a dyno to be tuned......from what ive learned n what i know about the car.....the pretuned ECUs you see for subuarus n all that crap have a shit ton check list u have to completely fulfill before u even attempt to turn the car on....plus some of those cars dont run on multiplexed electrical systems like this car..... a majority of the ECU signals on the TL are pulsed

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

What version of the AEM FI/c are you using and what injectors?

bent09

iTrader: (1)

Man that sucks... Is that why they stopped doing it on TLs?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I don't doubt the TL can be tuned. I have this really brainy tuner near me who says he can tune any DBW Honda/Acura but it's just really hard to find time and a customer that needs it. Maybe in the future.

The only issue I see with the guy above is how does he know what to tune it for if he doesn't have your car there. The guy I'm referring to would tune it on the street and spends hours doing so. Just telling someone your mods does not account for a tune, esp if he has never tuned a TL before.

pffpffpass

iTrader: (2)

This thread makes me sad..

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

Couldn't agree with you more. Next weekend I think we are meeting up with him next weekend, if he shows up. Will keep everyone updated

What about the 3.5l s/c guy? I think he can use a tune, even the regular s/c guys can use it. I t hink the problem is no one wants to sacrifice their car

05BlkTL

For 1500 I would just get myself a standalone management system. I used to run electromotive tec-2 on my vw with stock 10:1 comp, and bone stock internals cept for a quaife lsd. that setup held till 22psi and the ringlands let go. I just say this because i feel the money spent on a good management system AND A PROPER TUNE will outweigh the cost of blowing a rod through your block or ruining pistons and so forth. I havent' been involved with this stuff for at least 6 years now so maybe my train of thought is a little outdated. If the piggy backs don't seem to be able to properly hold the tune on our cars and be overridden by the stock ecu then standalone seems like the logical next step. again i've been out of the turbo/standalone loop for a while now so what i think may not be what's right. but for the money for this tune it seems that standalone is the proper choice. User "I hate cars" can most likely add more on this cause of his GN racecar he runs. although i don't know what kind of management he uses.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

P2R used a 3.2L J32A engine from a 3G TL with a stand alone system (i believe Stinger EMS??)

anyways, if you do a stand alone with this car, you will lose A LOT of features like VSA, ABS to start... (which are pretty damn important)

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Why not? I built a mock prototype set up with one and the car ran fine with it. There should be no pressure change with the pump. Only change is in the available volume of fuel delivery if needed. Basically if your stock pump cannot supply enough volume to maintain the regulated fuel pressure this one can. If you dont ever need the extra volume it just hangs out. Have you had a different experience with it?

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

I would never wanna loose vsa, abs or whatever else will be lost. Chance of this guy tuning it(or me even letting him) just went flying out the window lol

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

i think he means the main advantage of a new pump is to deliver the extra fuel, and you wont reap the full advantages without better rails and other components

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

^ My biggest fear especially on the bottle or for all the boosted cars is that the demand for fuel will be much higher than the stock pump could handle. As the ECU attemptes to maintain target A/F at WOT it will increase the injector duty cycle. At a higher duration the fuel supply will need to be dramatically increased. If the stock pump cannot supply the fuel to maintain the pressure a lean condition will occur unexpected by the ECU and detonation will occur. Most of these boosted cars have had that issue. I am gonna take a look at my piston tops to see if I have any signs of detonation just for the hell of it. I am pretty confident the stock lines can handle the additional volume from the higher flow pump.

EuroR08

me too

NAiL05

Maybe he reflashes the ECU? Thats what a lot of the European cars do. I dunno if Honda ECU's are capable of this. I am used to civics, integras, preludes and those are easy to play around with. I want to see AEM adapted into a TL setup. My friend has dbw in his 05GS and he is running the full AEM standalone. Might have to try it to see what it might yield. Problem is tuning the dbw just right since it reads tp a little different depending on system. Will have to look into it though.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Our ECUS are reprogrammable.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

30-1910 I think and RSX type-S injectors


The upgraded pump will probably work but won't serve you any advantage. You're going to max out at the injectors way before you do at the pump. To fully take advantage of the upgraded fuel pump you'll need new lines/rails/injectors and a full return system, which you won't need unless you're pushing SERIOUS power (more than any other TL is running right now). I think the stock injectors on 5psi were running close to full 95% capacity. I haven't had a fuel delivery issue with slightly larger injectors (310cc?). IMO EVERY boosted TL should upgrade their injectors. Even when I was running the CT ACM there was detonation wear on my piston tops, which I would assume would be the case with all other boosted TL's owners but they just don't know it. Again, with the stock pump and just upgraded injectors I still haven't maxed out the duty cycle on my 3.5L. However, I'm not making the boost I used to, I was pushing 6.5-7psi with the 3.2L, now I'm around 3.0-3.5psi. Maybe my belt is slipping..?

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Wow. 95% Thats kinda whatta I figured. Thats closer to maxed out then I would wanna see on my car. Have you put a fuel pressure gauge on your car since you put the 310s in? You could still drop some pressure without running lean. <--- that would be bad lol. The ECU can compensate by increasing pulse width. I totally agree that any boosted TL should upgrade the injectors. I think your right about them being RSX type S injectors. Now my theory goes back to my old turbo days... Larger injectors will run at a shorter duration to achieve the same A/F ratio than smaller injectors at a longer duty cycle. Only thing I would worry about and the reason I would like to see a upgraded pump on all boosted TLS is it is a relatively cheap mod to ensure the volume demand is there IF needed. The alternative is to run a higher risk of running outta fuel up top and we all know what that would do. My desire for the volume came from the fact I run a wet system on the car. This extra demand for fuel stemmed my research.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

I will probably be looking to upgrade the pump as a 'precaution' than a 'need'. It's definitely a cheap mod. I haven't measured the fuel pressure, I just know that I was maxed out on the stock injectors and running lean with the HBP. I attribute that to blowing my rings. I don't know what duty cycle I am running now but I just got my car tuned this past weekend at churches since i was leaning out mid-range and we could still add more fuel with my current injectors. Also, I need to compensate for my loss of boost so I'll probably to run a smaller pulley..hopefully I won't have fuel issues.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

^ What type of management are you on? Forgive my ignorance. I was away from the board for a few months.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

Hondata reflash and AEM FI/C

JS08TLS

ussi: Please explain why you would need new fuel lines with a 255 fuel pump? I can see injectors and a fuel pump but there is absolutely no need for upgraded fuel lines.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

So you can retard timing with that if I am not mistaken right? Fuel adjustment comes via individual wires connected to the injector wiring? Been a little while.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

Like I said, you don't HAVE to but to get the full benefit of this pump you should be running full return lines.

Right, the ecu won't let you advance timing at all. I was able to get a couple degrees advance from the hondata reflash. It intercepts the fuel injector signals to the ecu so fuel adjustment at the injector level wasn't a problem. I did have to get a custom harness from boomslang which I plugged everything into...I guess you could build your own harness but it is a lot of wires. I'm not completely done, I have to hook up the manifold pressure sensor...