Any Cali people passing smog with HFPC
#41
Safety Car
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Location: San Jose, CA/ Charleston, WV
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@paperboy I think rv6 is 300 cell also. Looks like they use magnaflow cores, but I am not 100% on that
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 06-09-2014 at 06:31 AM.
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H23Accord (06-14-2014)
#42
Suzuka Master
E-shift Pro Cats are 200 cell catalysts. No heat shields, heat wrapped. Always pass
#43
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
i switched my 3rd cat back to OEM, and went to another shop on sunday. however it was super empty and the guy did a thorough check and used an extension mirror to look at the part number on the HFPCs. said they looked aftermarket, were not approved, and said he would have to fail me on the visual, so he didn't do the test and didn't charge me.
might check out another shop someone told me about or i will put my front OEM cat back on before getting tested. rear is nearly impossible to get checked for a part number since it's so tight back there
the shop you referred me to...they couldn't check the parts number on it because it was heat wrapped right? i may have to go check out the shop you told me about and hopefully they don't care
might check out another shop someone told me about or i will put my front OEM cat back on before getting tested. rear is nearly impossible to get checked for a part number since it's so tight back there
the shop you referred me to...they couldn't check the parts number on it because it was heat wrapped right? i may have to go check out the shop you told me about and hopefully they don't care
#44
Suzuka Master
They dont check
#45
Team Owner
Very unlikely (but possible) you'll pass but to give it a fighting chance drive the crap out it all the way to the shop and shut it off with no idle time. If the car tends to run on the lean side due to mods or 02 drift, it would have a better chance since cats are most effective on hydrocarbons and least efficient on NOx. If possible take it to a shop that will work with you. Some place that's dead and can take the car immediately vs letting it sit for an hour. The fact that they use the dyno should help with these cars. Manually shifting on the dyno and trying a different gear if it fails in one gear. Some shops "help out" without even telling the customer. They usually don't like to fail people.
#46
Moderator
iTrader: (7)
Very unlikely (but possible) you'll pass but to give it a fighting chance drive the crap out it all the way to the shop and shut it off with no idle time. If the car tends to run on the lean side due to mods or 02 drift, it would have a better chance since cats are most effective on hydrocarbons and least efficient on NOx. If possible take it to a shop that will work with you. Some place that's dead and can take the car immediately vs letting it sit for an hour. The fact that they use the dyno should help with these cars. Manually shifting on the dyno and trying a different gear if it fails in one gear. Some shops "help out" without even telling the customer. They usually don't like to fail people.
#48
Team Owner
Yes sir. No precats is a for sure fail while no 3rd cat hardly makes a difference once warm. Precats do almost all of the work once hot. I gutted my 3rd cat when the car was just a few months old but before I did, I did a before and after smog check at my friends smog shop. There was just about zero difference with and without it which is why I went ahead and gutted it.
Interestingly, when I went to get my first real smog check a couple years ago it had lower emissions at over 100,000 miles than it did with 1,000 miles. The hydrocarbons were at zero the last time.
The EGR will take care of the NOx which goes up under load and heat but the cats have to take care of the hydrocarbons which sometimes go down with heat which is why it's good to have the engine and 02s and especially the cats hot when you do the test. Usually if they vary the load on the dyno by trying different gears they can get the hydrocarbons down. Most shops will do this but some try it once and if it fails it fails.
Interestingly, when I went to get my first real smog check a couple years ago it had lower emissions at over 100,000 miles than it did with 1,000 miles. The hydrocarbons were at zero the last time.
The EGR will take care of the NOx which goes up under load and heat but the cats have to take care of the hydrocarbons which sometimes go down with heat which is why it's good to have the engine and 02s and especially the cats hot when you do the test. Usually if they vary the load on the dyno by trying different gears they can get the hydrocarbons down. Most shops will do this but some try it once and if it fails it fails.
#50
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It's called a catalytic converter for a reason. It catalyze the process of something.
I remember on my friends 240 change the timing so that it would pass smog with flying color
I remember on my friends 240 change the timing so that it would pass smog with flying color
#51
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
So learned a few things today and it's not good for Cali residents
- you can pass visual on HFPCs you just have to find the shop that doesn't check hardcore aka go to a shop that's very busy
- from my experience you will not pass smog in Cali with HFPCs even if you have the oem third cat. I put on my oem third Cat and failed big time... Gross polluter
My NO reading was 2300 (15/25 mph). The max limit is 400/700 and the gross polluter limit is 1900/1700. Wasn't even close to passing, labeled as a gross polluter
I don't know much about how to change the readings, if I change one HFPC back to oem will that possibly get me to pass? Or am I so out of range I would have to do both? I just really really do not want to change out that rear cat again haha
Any info appreciated
- you can pass visual on HFPCs you just have to find the shop that doesn't check hardcore aka go to a shop that's very busy
- from my experience you will not pass smog in Cali with HFPCs even if you have the oem third cat. I put on my oem third Cat and failed big time... Gross polluter
My NO reading was 2300 (15/25 mph). The max limit is 400/700 and the gross polluter limit is 1900/1700. Wasn't even close to passing, labeled as a gross polluter
I don't know much about how to change the readings, if I change one HFPC back to oem will that possibly get me to pass? Or am I so out of range I would have to do both? I just really really do not want to change out that rear cat again haha
Any info appreciated
#52
Team Owner
With NO that high I would be looking at the EGR before the cats.
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sockr1 (06-21-2014)
#56
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Checked out egr and it didn't look bad. Scraped off what I could but wasn't a whole lot.
If the egr valve is bad, it would have to have a CEL right? Or can it be bad without a visible notification. Should I be able to move the valve physically
Regarding gaskets, I didn't put a new one on when I took out a carbon deposit keeping the valve open. I'll get a new gasket this week
If the egr valve is bad, it would have to have a CEL right? Or can it be bad without a visible notification. Should I be able to move the valve physically
Regarding gaskets, I didn't put a new one on when I took out a carbon deposit keeping the valve open. I'll get a new gasket this week
Last edited by sockr1; 06-21-2014 at 03:34 PM.
#57
Suzuka Master
So learned a few things today and it's not good for Cali residents
- you can pass visual on HFPCs you just have to find the shop that doesn't check hardcore aka go to a shop that's very busy
- from my experience you will not pass smog in Cali with HFPCs even if you have the oem third cat. I put on my oem third Cat and failed big time... Gross polluter
My NO reading was 2300 (15/25 mph). The max limit is 400/700 and the gross polluter limit is 1900/1700. Wasn't even close to passing, labeled as a gross polluter
I don't know much about how to change the readings, if I change one HFPC back to oem will that possibly get me to pass? Or am I so out of range I would have to do both? I just really really do not want to change out that rear cat again haha
Any info appreciated
- you can pass visual on HFPCs you just have to find the shop that doesn't check hardcore aka go to a shop that's very busy
- from my experience you will not pass smog in Cali with HFPCs even if you have the oem third cat. I put on my oem third Cat and failed big time... Gross polluter
My NO reading was 2300 (15/25 mph). The max limit is 400/700 and the gross polluter limit is 1900/1700. Wasn't even close to passing, labeled as a gross polluter
I don't know much about how to change the readings, if I change one HFPC back to oem will that possibly get me to pass? Or am I so out of range I would have to do both? I just really really do not want to change out that rear cat again haha
Any info appreciated
#61
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
i think my hfpcs have gone bad (or at least 1). for about 6 months now i've had a rattle when my car gets hot and i'm at idle, but always thought it was from my large resonator i put on and the some metal expansion making the rattle...but the more i read and look up videos the more i think it's the cat coming apart.
i've checked the egr path and it seems fine, took off the egr valve and the car started stalling so it's not clogged, was able to mechanically move the egr valve with a screw driver, and have no CEL for a bad valve.
i'm going to put the stock cats on this week and visually inspect the hfpcs substrate to see if i can see any damage. i did purchase a used set of hfpcs in the past and they arrived burned up (got refunded), so i definitely know it's possible with the hfpcs
i've checked the egr path and it seems fine, took off the egr valve and the car started stalling so it's not clogged, was able to mechanically move the egr valve with a screw driver, and have no CEL for a bad valve.
i'm going to put the stock cats on this week and visually inspect the hfpcs substrate to see if i can see any damage. i did purchase a used set of hfpcs in the past and they arrived burned up (got refunded), so i definitely know it's possible with the hfpcs
#62
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
put back both my stock pre-cats back on (what a PITA), and am getting my smog done at lunch time today. if i pass i know my hfpcs are bad, if i don't then i know there is something else wrong.
just to make sure, it's normal for recently installed cats to smoke some (10 min or so) from all the oils and things while handling it right? i believe my hfpcs did that too when i installed them
just to make sure, it's normal for recently installed cats to smoke some (10 min or so) from all the oils and things while handling it right? i believe my hfpcs did that too when i installed them
#64
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
yea i was worried about that. i have thursday off so maybe i'll drive it a lot and then get smogged on thursday. just trying to minimize how much i drive it since i only put back one heat shield on the rear cat.
#65
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
what a pain...after driving to 5 shops i finally got one to test me (i now need a STAR shop since I was a gross polluter on the last test, and the shops were broken or not manned).
with oem front cats and high flow 3rd cat, i still had 3x NOX levels. i talked to the guy a lot and he was super bummed i didn't pass since he was a fan of this car model. he asked for everything i've done to the car and told him i have it tuned but that the tuner said my specific settings should have no impact on smog. smog guy said "i'm almost sure that's it since he's running open loop"
going to reset my factory ECU settings tonight and now i have another appt tomorrow morning. will update this again with HOPEFULLY the reason why i didn't pass smog...
with oem front cats and high flow 3rd cat, i still had 3x NOX levels. i talked to the guy a lot and he was super bummed i didn't pass since he was a fan of this car model. he asked for everything i've done to the car and told him i have it tuned but that the tuner said my specific settings should have no impact on smog. smog guy said "i'm almost sure that's it since he's running open loop"
going to reset my factory ECU settings tonight and now i have another appt tomorrow morning. will update this again with HOPEFULLY the reason why i didn't pass smog...
#66
Suzuka Master
Sounds likely
#67
Team Owner
Open loop? Why is it running open loop?
If that doesn't fix it I would pull the EGR off and start it for a couple seconds. The engine should be very loud and it should rev up quickly without giving it any throttle. If its not loud or it doesn't rev, one side of the system is plugged. Hopefully it's just a simple reset. Cats don't affect NO much at all which is why I knew the cats weren't the problem.
If that doesn't fix it I would pull the EGR off and start it for a couple seconds. The engine should be very loud and it should rev up quickly without giving it any throttle. If its not loud or it doesn't rev, one side of the system is plugged. Hopefully it's just a simple reset. Cats don't affect NO much at all which is why I knew the cats weren't the problem.
#69
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
so i FINALLY passed smog after visiting 6 smog shops, replacing my HFPCs with oem cats, switching the HFC a few times, checking egr valve and pathway...such a hassle and it was all because of my tune. i would have passed easily with HFPCs and HFC if i had just returned my ECU to stock parameters.
my NO numbers went from 6x legal limit to less than 1/10th the legal limit by removing the tune (2400 ppm down to 30).
i checked the egr path and valve per your first post and nothing was clogged and the the valve mechanically worked. i also removed the valve and the car got super loud and stuttered so i knew then that it wasn't a clogging issue
after my first failed test i emailed my tuner about impacting smog and he responded "Your map should let you pass with flying colors -- unless the O2 sensor is bad or they're doing something odd during testing. I intentionally left the TPS based open loop settings (instead of MAP based, which usually is what causes the NOx reading failures).We can bump up the determination settings to see if it helps."
i don't know much about tuning so that gave me false confidence. now after reading up on all smog related issues i can see why that would be a problem. i'm going to have to talk to him after the holiday and see how we can keep the driveability of my tune while not being a gross polluter
drove the car for about 100 miles after connecting battery and then another 20 miles after resetting ECU. i made sure they read the readiness codes before starting the test this morning. all good.
already have them
so in the end my contribution to this thread is that HFPCs and HFC will most likely pass...and if you have a tune reset your settings or make sure it's not effecting your emissions to this point
my NO numbers went from 6x legal limit to less than 1/10th the legal limit by removing the tune (2400 ppm down to 30).
Open loop? Why is it running open loop?
If that doesn't fix it I would pull the EGR off and start it for a couple seconds. The engine should be very loud and it should rev up quickly without giving it any throttle. If its not loud or it doesn't rev, one side of the system is plugged. Hopefully it's just a simple reset. Cats don't affect NO much at all which is why I knew the cats weren't the problem.
If that doesn't fix it I would pull the EGR off and start it for a couple seconds. The engine should be very loud and it should rev up quickly without giving it any throttle. If its not loud or it doesn't rev, one side of the system is plugged. Hopefully it's just a simple reset. Cats don't affect NO much at all which is why I knew the cats weren't the problem.
after my first failed test i emailed my tuner about impacting smog and he responded "Your map should let you pass with flying colors -- unless the O2 sensor is bad or they're doing something odd during testing. I intentionally left the TPS based open loop settings (instead of MAP based, which usually is what causes the NOx reading failures).We can bump up the determination settings to see if it helps."
i don't know much about tuning so that gave me false confidence. now after reading up on all smog related issues i can see why that would be a problem. i'm going to have to talk to him after the holiday and see how we can keep the driveability of my tune while not being a gross polluter
already have them
so in the end my contribution to this thread is that HFPCs and HFC will most likely pass...and if you have a tune reset your settings or make sure it's not effecting your emissions to this point
#70
Moderator
iTrader: (7)
wow interesting journey. Well, at least it's easy to revert to a stock tune for the smog test right?
In any case the question still stands, will the car pass with HFPC and 3rd cat delete? I know some of you hypothesize that it should when the cats are hot enough but I'd still like to see some real world results.
In any case the question still stands, will the car pass with HFPC and 3rd cat delete? I know some of you hypothesize that it should when the cats are hot enough but I'd still like to see some real world results.
#71
Team Owner
That's great. Now I would be worried what the tune does that causes the high NO. If it just disables the EGR, that's fine. If it's running so lean or advancing the timing that much you might want to revisit the tune for the engines safety.
I think the fact that it passes hydrocarbons with the HFPC means it should pass smog no problem with them.
I think the fact that it passes hydrocarbons with the HFPC means it should pass smog no problem with them.
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sockr1 (07-03-2014)
#72
Team Owner
wow interesting journey. Well, at least it's easy to revert to a stock tune for the smog test right?
In any case the question still stands, will the car pass with HFPC and 3rd cat delete? I know some of you hypothesize that it should when the cats are hot enough but I'd still like to see some real world results.
In any case the question still stands, will the car pass with HFPC and 3rd cat delete? I know some of you hypothesize that it should when the cats are hot enough but I'd still like to see some real world results.
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paperboy42190 (07-05-2014)
#73
Suzuka Master
smogged again in CA today with procats at all three spots. Easily passed. I know I can remove the third cat with a j-pipe and still pass.
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sockr1 (07-19-2014)
#75
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (3)
Thought I'd throw this here, I passed my smog with RV6 V3 HFPCs, ATLP V2 J-Pipe and test pipe on the car, with all the other bolt-on mods (ported runners, 4" CAI, '12 SHAWD intake manifold, ZDX TB, XLR8 pulley).
These are where my numbers were, still plenty of margin.
------------------------%CO2---%O2
15mph 1684---------14.5-----0.3
25mph 1720rpm---14.2-----0.3
HC (PPM) -- AVG for TL is 4, max is 51 @ 15mph and 35 @ 25mph
15mph 1684rpm --- 15ppm HC
25mph 1720rpm ---- 12ppm HC
CO % --- AVG for TL is 0.01, max is 0.48 at 15mph and 0.46 at 25mph
15mph 1684rpm--- 0.03
25mph 1720rpm --- 0.03
NO (PPM) -- AVG for TL is 16, max is 419 at 15mph and 706 at 25mph
15mph 1684rpm --- 175
25mph 1720rpm --- 156
Still a fair amount of room before being in gross polluter territory.
These are where my numbers were, still plenty of margin.
------------------------%CO2---%O2
15mph 1684---------14.5-----0.3
25mph 1720rpm---14.2-----0.3
HC (PPM) -- AVG for TL is 4, max is 51 @ 15mph and 35 @ 25mph
15mph 1684rpm --- 15ppm HC
25mph 1720rpm ---- 12ppm HC
CO % --- AVG for TL is 0.01, max is 0.48 at 15mph and 0.46 at 25mph
15mph 1684rpm--- 0.03
25mph 1720rpm --- 0.03
NO (PPM) -- AVG for TL is 16, max is 419 at 15mph and 706 at 25mph
15mph 1684rpm --- 175
25mph 1720rpm --- 156
Still a fair amount of room before being in gross polluter territory.
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#76
Registered VTEC junkie
passed smog
First of all, my car passed. I was suprised to find out that there's a new procedure in place for smog tests now. My car did not a have to be placed a dyno or have a tailpipe reader. It was all visual, including a smoke test from the exhaust-basically a red line rev to see if there's any smoke coming from exhaust tailpipe. Most of it was done with a diagnostic reader plugged into the OBDII port. I asked the guy at the smog station about this and he said that for 2000 and newer cars, there's no dyno test. That is only for 1999 and older cars. In a way, this makes it easier for us to smog. That tailpipe test always makes me nervous. Anyways, the only emissions related aftermarket part I have is the ATLP 3rd cat and AEM intake with a CARB approved number.
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sockr1 (11-25-2014)
#77
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (3)
First of all, my car passed. I was suprised to find out that there's a new procedure in place for smog tests now. My car did not a have to be placed a dyno or have a tailpipe reader. It was all visual, including a smoke test from the exhaust-basically a red line rev to see if there's any smoke coming from exhaust tailpipe. Most of it was done with a diagnostic reader plugged into the OBDII port. I asked the guy at the smog station about this and he said that for 2000 and newer cars, there's no dyno test. That is only for 1999 and older cars. In a way, this makes it easier for us to smog. That tailpipe test always makes me nervous. Anyways, the only emissions related aftermarket part I have is the ATLP 3rd cat and AEM intake with a CARB approved number.
See here:
https://www.bar.ca.gov/FormsPubs/Fac...ram_Areas.html