My bad, I was talking about the j32a3 because it has hondata support. I may have misread too lol. Too many damn numbers!

But the thing is though, the j35a3 still falls in the same category as the j32a2. No hondata support. Must run with stock ECU or a standalone. (I think, pretty sure) I also think despite sharing the same head design, aren't the cams also a little bit different? With the CLS cams being the better cams stock? This really doesn't matter right away, but may depending on the final whp outcome. (I may want to upgrade)

And for a white girl, she is a hardcore ricer. I'm the guy who taught her to drive stick and then she got really into the fast and furious movies. Seriously, while I'm building this, she wants a 3g eclipse of all cars. It's a bad platform and has even less information than this swap. Plus, her options are small. It doesn't matter to her though, she just wants a car that's quick, factory it's 200 crank horsepower with 205 crank torque and a lot of cosmetic "enhancements" ie. Big ass spoiler, BIG rims, and HUGE fart can.

 

I not so sure you're quite clued in yet on what's actually involved in running Hondata. Let me go over it real quickly for you to see, from a realistic point of view, then see if you still are interested or not.

Parts involved in tuning with Hondata:
* A j32a3 block (for 2g CLS 6MT) or j35a8 block (for 3g TLS 6MT). Either block can support the proper oil pump which mounts the j35a8 Hall effect style crank sensor unique to the 3g TL's (and 7g Accords) that MUST be used with Hondata.


* Unless you decide to do a multiport exhaust head from say a j32a2 (my recommendation), you will be required to run the single port exhaust heads which are still decent but WILL begin to choke power beyond 300whp if not sooner. If the single port heads are used, I suggest porting the exhaust at minimum.

* Get ready for an electronics fiasco in that Civic as you MUST introduce the CAN bus module communication system by implementing the use of the 3g TL MICU (interior fuse block), instrument cluster (if you want functional gauges), Immobilizer ECU (for key authorization) and then the ECM itself (obviously). Unless you are keen on how to wire in a CAN bus termination point, I'd strongly suggest using an 04-06 TL cluster that does that for you. Otherwise NOTHING will have communication and it will never start due to being unable to program the antitheft components. Some people work around CAN bus by purchasing a preprogrammed ECM, immobilizer ECU and ignition key from the same vehicle BUT then, you better hope you never need another key or need to pull codes from the modules....which, we all know you will.

* Lets not forget the wiring between all of these modules and components which must be added on the body side of the engine wiring harness (for ECM) and then the remaining components as well so that they are integrated into the Civics factory wiring harnesses so that the two systems work in harmony. Not a wiring nightmare, half assed job that jinxes your car with continuous reliability plagues from taking shortcuts. Mind you, the other components will also require their own wiring harnesses (or at least pigtail connectors) for harness integration. Lots of time and money can easily be spent here. Especially if you don't know what you're looking for.

* Labor of all of the above. Doing one off, custom jobs are not cheap and really require an expertise of someone familiar with the swap and preferably, the powertrain itself in specific. Not too many people around are THAT familiar with the j-series which means you could be paying for learning curve and self teaching which again is expensive since it could take the person 3-hours to do a small job that would take someone experienced in the job 1-hour. Not all shops do both mechanical and electrical and most that try are generally very bad and the electrical portion of the work and may end up rigging things up just to get it running and out the door. Expect anywhere from 10-20 hours labor for the entire swap.

* And last, but not least, is the purchase, install and setup of FlashPro to your vehicle. Though it may be the least complicated of all, it's still an expensive task. At least here you can rest assured that doing an etune with say Vit will yield you trustworthy results (another $300 for tuning) especially since you will more than likely be NA.

----OR----

You could go with a $1000-1500 j32a2 6MT swap that generally includes the big four: engine, transmission, harnesses and ECM (w/Immobilizer and key). Since there's no special CAN bus in the older systems, it makes for an easy integration into the Civic. You could go the AEM FIC-6 route or the AEM standalone (recommended) route and have it tuned. Maybe even find a used standalone or FIC if you search around. Labor will be significantly cheaper as well since the electrical workload is cut in half. It will require less sub-systems to allow proper function which again, means less cash. And, you STILL end up with a killer setup that's been proven in damn near every area (NA and boost) to really out do say the stock j32a3 or j35a8 without worrying too much about thin ass, economic component casting breaking apart because of a shitty tune or poor fuel.

Just saying....

 

Thanks yungone for the extra info!

Yep, while I'm still a noob and learning you seem to be right about most of the above mentioned. It does come down to this essentially. It's j32a2 (or j35a3 I guess) vs j32a3

While the parts are cheaper for the j32a2 way as a whole, more power potential too, where in really gonna feel the pain is the tune. Aem is not cheap and finding a reputable tuner (king motorsports?) to tune it is also not going to be cheap.

On the other hand while the j32a3 route is a bit more expensive, hondata is compatible. Which means the tune will be cheap. While looking through RPM systems and that one honda article with API, it seems like the harnesses they build for you removes most of the problems you addressed. They're supposed to integrate the civic and j harness into one, remove the immobilizer, and make it plug and play. I don't know the extent of the truth to this though as I've never personally ordered it or know anyone who has.

Ugh, those damn j32a3s with their shitty ass built in manifold

 

your all over the place brah

 

You gotta read the whole thing lol.

I'm just basically me trying to decide which way to go. It went from being split between turbo and n/a. All motor seems to be the way to go for the goals that I want. Around 300whp, DD, cheap.

The problem now comes deciding which block and shit. Since day one, I really wanted to go j32a2 because it appeared that the heads were far superior to the rest of the "affordable" engines. This engine responds very well to bolt ons. On top of that I'd want to stroke and raise the compression to get more power. (Plus other supporting mods) The problem with this engine though is that you have to run a stand alone. That plus the tune and transportation is gonna run well into $2000+. That alone is why I'm reconsidering this engine.

On the other hand, the j32a3 does have hondata support and I can get a tune with Vit, which will run around 800 bucks, 1100 with the hondata can adapter (I don't know what this does exactly, looking into it). The problem though is that because of single port head design it appears it'll choke the engine far before the same mods, mentioned above, will have any affect. It doesn't matter how good the intake or cams are if the cars exhaust side chokes the engine.

J is the way I want to go, but damn honda and hondata, why you make it so hard?

I'm probably gonna take a look on j32a.com to see what kind of power stock j32a2s make with stock ecu and bolt ons. This is the third option.

It honestly looks like I'll just have to settle with something lol. But good shit guys getting all this info out there too!

 

Not as well versed as many of the folks responding to your thread, but here's my take:

IMO, spend 5K on a 3G TL-S 6MT that's crashed and take everything you need out of it, or Accord Coupe 6MT (lower compression). It has the 6MT with LSD and all the other stuff such as ECU, pedals, etc that you need.

With a few engine mods such as gutting the cats, MDX spacer, you'll be at 300WHP without having to mess with cams, swapping the crank, etc. Straight swap over and redoing the wiring.

Plus you can cheat and use the TL-S cluster and other stuff (wishful thinking for the radio/nav) with Hondata and make the civic a tad more modern .

A few folks with the TL-S have gotten near the 300WHP mark with bolt on mods, and with your knowledge and time in the future you can easily get that higher.

I know it uses DBW and it also has the single head port, but if you aren't doing FI it's not going to be that large of an issue. The need for a "header" is going to make this a bit complex with a small gain in my opinion. This keeps everything simple for troubleshooting and makes it easy for repairs if you are ever out and about away from home. In the future if you do go with FI, you can see Andy is doing S/C without an issue, J&R did the turbos with botched tuning methods and they still worked, and the Comptech S/C with no real tuning also worked well with the single port.

Dyno from TOV:
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=1131834&page_number=2

250WHP with no mods at the wheels should be a great starting point for your build and for you to improve on.

 

I did think about doing something like that. Right now, I got a tboned integra in my drive way because I'm in the process of swapping out the Lcas and sway bars onto my civic so I actually have some sort of suspension. I was also going to use the ls tranny and shifter, but because I'm doing j, I've parted those parts out instead.

I learned real fast that it's far cheaper to buy the whole thing rather than individual parts lol. I got that integra for 500 bucks. The transmission alone is like 300. So for 200 more dollars I got a whole car too. Why not?

It's a really good idea, but so far I haven't found any reasonably priced or really haven't found any 3G TLS at all. Not a lot of people have them and if they do, it isn't in a junk yard and it isn't for sale. I'm thinking more along the lines that I'll have to take a few trips to a couple pickn pulls and pray the parts I need are there, should I decide to go that route. But hey, we still got time before next year, you never know.

I know that the single port won't hurt "that much" going all motor but a part of me dies when I know the j32a2 with its multi ports would perform better with similar mods. Ahhh

I really need to look into the wiring harness though. You guys have all said wiring is a pain in the ass, I'm not even going to attempt it, I'm just hoping that it's as easy as I've read it to be through RPM systems or API.

When I hear the term "plug and play" I'm assuming it means, just hook everything to where it needs to go and it'll work!

Is that naive? Lol

 

Where I go now depends on what RPM systems replies. Email finally sent. Damn I'm a procrastinator.

If they say it's no problem and not that big of a deal to go DBW, then that is the direction I will go despite wanting not to. Without going back into this thread lol, if I recall correctly Yungone stated that he had heard that for the .3 displacement bump, it would net 20hp.

This of course is if my math is right. I did some sketchy ass math because I didn't know the dome of the j32a3 piston and it's Hella late, or is it early? I'm just assuming increasing the displacement would yield a similar compression bump to what I wanted to do with the j32a2. The piston should clear because it's not going any higher, just lower into the block. It should be close to 12:1. Is this alright for a DD? Lol. I think it's pretty damn high. 93 octane is available near me and fuck e85

If they say DBW is ass, I'm either going stand alone with the stroked j32a2 or just run the stock ECU.

I have even got a taste of the J swap life and I'm a lifer lmao

 

Oh I have read the whole thing

 

Says money doesn't matter but doesn't want to spend $2000 for tuning and misc

 

yea I just dont see it

 

So Robert answered your question regarding Hondata and everything LITERALLY 2 or 3 posts prior, but you're going to wait for a company to tell you? You may not realize it, but Robert owns his own AUTO ELECTRICAL BUSINESS. That's right - everything he told you is from experience and expertise, not conjecture. But maybe the email from RPM will help you sleep better.

 

Well. The thing is I know yungone501, is very knowledgeable. I didn't know he owns his own electrical business, but I sleep better knowing that I won't have to deal with most of the wiring Integrating two harnesses together seems like a nightmare withing a nightmare. He's seen that nightmare. Plus, I'm asking RPM systems because they do this kind of stuff for living and I going to be purchasing through them.

I don't think yungone sells j swap harnesses though.

But, it also helps to know what parts I'm unaware of. The j32a3 ecu seems like the most pain in the ass thing there ever was. What is Honda doing with their stuff...for real. They're looking like they're gonna become like mitsubishi. A pain in the ass to work with any other of their engines other than the 4g63.

 

The difference is you're now dealing with technology developed in the 2000s. Everything that is B/D/H is all developed in the 80s and while it worked, and worked well, it was very primitive.

The bigger question you'd want to ask is why would anyone want to do anything with a DSM other than drive it off a cliff.

 

the DSM fellers just died of blasphemy

 

eagle talon

 

but does it run?

 

Lol. If you read, its not me, it's the gf. We're gonna be getting her a 3G eclipse gt/spyder here pretty shortly. Seriously, when looking for info to mod her engine for more power all I got was trips to multiple threads with guys who had small egos and weren't very helpful lol. It comes stock with a 6g72, 200hp/205tq. The swap for the 05+ Galant engine, 6g74, 230hp/250tq, seems like a huge pain in the ass, but it's the only other option, because there are only like 2 people who have successfully done the 4g 3.8 mivec (6g75) swap, 260hp/260tq iirc, and honestly, who the hell wants to manually flip a switch to turn the mivec on?

She's tough because she only likes classic cars and a few imports. I personally like the f body camaro, but she's not a big fan. Lsx is easy power, she said no. It's the look she says. So her 3G eclipse is gonna not be fast, but ricey as hell. Big spoiler, rims, sound system, fart can, and God save me, BODY KIT.

Imo, mitsubishi engines are inferior to honda engines. It's just that unlike honda, mitsubishi actually designed cars for racing. The integra type r is no slouche for instance, but it's fwd. That's a pretty big starting limitation. The only car that honda designed that is competitive is the s2k (well, the nsx too) but for most people, that car isn't affordable and God forsake whomever decided FRM sleeves was a great idea.

I think the current nsx was a big waste of time and money for honda. While the tech is cool, it's not an nsx. Why couldn't it just be a Honda V8 mid engine RWD. I mean, honda pretty much just copied Ferrari with the design, why not just go for round 2 LOL.

And there are guys with j swap nsxs that are pretty sweet. J swap s2ks too. J is better than C and F.

Man, got to catch up with the times I suppose.

 

Id say! Not going to lie that car sounds disgusting

Might as well slap some underglow in there too for finishing touches

 

Lmao. Tell me about it. I personally prefer a clean look. The only cosmetic mods on my car are gonna front/rear lip with custom rear bumper w/diffuser, custom dual quad exhaust, and mugen replica spoiler.

Bro. Though I don't think underglow is legal here, she'd have it if it was, and she also has some thing interior glow thing already that changes colors and shit. So when she's blasting the music the lights I'll change color with the song.

You have no idea what I have to deal with lol. It's gonna be ricier than its 2f2f counterpart. Still no word from RPM systems yet. Might wait a day to see what they have and then call to see what's up. I'm not discounting Yungones opinion, but it's nice to have another opinion and speak to the people you're purchasing from.

 

 

Dons website (RPM Systems) says that he offers a "DBW swap harness". Right off the bat I see a few things that make me think this isn't what would ideally suit your situation. It reports that is made for the 04-06 j32a3 and then the 04-07 j35a8. Immediately I'm thinking that his reference to the listed j35a8 applicable years is a mistake on his part (since its known the j35a8 was made between 05-08). If you look, the kit includes the ECM, immobilizer and ignition key. Sound familiar? It's exactly what I suggested NOT to do since this essentially cuts out the CAN bus communication aspect of the electronics (which means no OBD2 comm) and zero ability to program any keys if it's lost, a spare is needed or a component fails. That's even if it actually uses the j35a8 ECM which if it doesn't, don't expect to run Hondata on it. If it is a j35a8, make sure it's not one from an RL as it too will not be FlashPro compatible.


Then, it appears that there's some ecu trickery going on as I see what appears to be a resistor pack of some sort at the lower center area of the picture he has posted up. This is generally meant to fool the ECM to thinking that something it requires to work properly is there, even though it really isn't. This type of conversion will without a doubt affect the logic of the ECM and how it actually performs on the vehicle it's installed on which is generally not an improved/desired performance.

And though it's not my personal opinion on the man or his business, I've read numerous stories by others (mostly his customers) about how badly of a product they received, were financially burned, or ended up getting an ear (or screen) full of childish profanity and/or remarks. Again, I've never dealt with the dude but if you over to j32a dot com, you can read these accounts firsthand.

 

Man, there's always so much conflicting info lol.

I've read a lot of good things about RPM systems. I don't think anyone actually used a harness though in any of the threads I've read, its been more like, Don from RPM systems is great and then those dudes end up never finishing their project.

I mean, it's just like Paul, his user is NVA-AV6. A lot of people have said good things about him, but somewhere along the line something must of happened. I read one line somewhere where one guy said that Paul's products never performed like how he claimed etc and some of the work received was shoddy.

And it's funny yungone501, I go and re-research to get a better understanding of what I'm reading and I always come across your past post telling me exactly pretty much what you are now. I appreciate the help man, you have no idea. It must be tough repeating the same stuff to noobs over and over and over. Props to you.

And man, I don't get why hasport makes mounts and axles when finding a proper engine management is a pain in the ass. Like...how and what we're these people thinking if the swap was gonna be this infuriating? Lol.

I've read j32a2 with stock ecu and bolt ons get around 260whp. Is this true? I also hear they run rich at higher power levels on stock ecu

 

Ill reply to a post I didn't see earlier. 6speed-gerco. If rather not spend 2 grand and some change if I can find an equivalent that's cheaper. I mean, But honestly. This DBW, ecu crap is butt. Why couldn't the swap be simple like a B series swap lmao. I'm determined to find something that works.

I mean, like I said, I'm not afraid to spend money to a point, but I dont want to be wasting money either. Throwing money into a fire pit doesn't sound that fun.

For example:
2,000ish (I'm being optimistic) for the aem and tune
J32a2 stroked to 3.5
Around 300whp maybe
Cost: Probably around 3,000-3,500

OR

800 dollar tune from vit
J32a3 with a harness that's complete ass (for now)
That may or may not work
Could end up wasting a lot of cash this route
Cost: Probably not worth the trouble. Well just put 10 grand LOL

OR

Stock j32a2
Ran on stock j32a2 ecu
Full bolt ons
250whp maybe
Cost: 1000-1500 dollars

I'm not sure if 2 grand for "MAYBE" 50whp is worth it. If i went that route i might as well spend more and get more power, but i have some self control and we as a collective decided that boost is not the way to go for the goals I want. This is after all not a race car, but a DD. The price above are just engine and tuning costs. The other modifications are solid.

I mean, how many guys here have already tried pointing me towards j32a2 stock. I watched those j32 civic vids on youtube all day today. The one I can't get out of my head though is the j32 untuned civic losing to the k24/k20 hatch. That's not acceptable.

Other than that, that j sound so sexy

 

Omg! Triple mother****ing post! Lol

I think we've all lost sight here. I know everyone is very knowledgeable. I don't doubt that. As cheap as I may sound, I guarantee you that isn't the case. I want to share an example with you guys:

Remember how said before I was going to run a good looking rim on those toyo ra-1s? Well I think I may have decided on the brand Koenig. Now I don't know how you guys feel about this, but from what I hear they're a decent brand, look good, and are affordable. I can pick up a set for around 500 bucks. That's a steal. I don't autox, or drive crazy, also I won't be making enough power to ever break these rims even though they are cast and not forged.I walked into this talk a complete noob and with the info all of you guys have provided I've come out smarter than before. Isn't it a smart idea to pick these up instead of an expensive set of rims? Do not forget, this is just a Honda civic. I'm sure you TL guys are above this lol.

Now back to the point. Again, I'm very appreciative of all the help you've given me. If I don't decide on what you want, it isn't a sign of disrespect, it's just me going with my gut. As you can tell, my gut is very indecisive. I've changed my mind about 25 times alone in this thread. You seen it, pointed it out, I know.

I'm at the point in this build where I just want to build lol and not discuss what if scenarios. This is how builds never get done dammit. As much time as you guys have invested in me, this will, almost certainly end up just a stock j32a2 with full bolt ons on a stock ecu.

Would having the 2000+ tune help? Sure. Would the maybe extra 50whp be nice? Hell yeah. But it's a DD. That one red j32 civic was tuned because it was a drag car, then autox car, build with the intention of getting the fastest time possible. That's not me. It's a DD I want to be relatively fast.

Shit the reality of the situation just kicked in lmao. So unless I find an actual solution between hondata and it's compatible counterparts in a civic swap, we're stuck lol. Fuuuuu**

 

Final post for tonight.

While I just said this will most likely be a j32a2 stock. It does not rule out the option of aem in the near future. You were right Yungone. You knew it the whole time. J32a2 then build.

To me though, Aem is like DBW, I'd like to stay away from it because I'm not familiar with it, and the very last thing I need is for my car, a Honda Civic, to run me up thousands of dollars in dyno fees.

I'm heavily in favor of Vit tuning with hondata though because he works with you until your car runs up to his standards and he charges a very modest rate. What is it, 250 for n/a and 350 for FI? I saw Dom-gsr here earlier and ive heard about good things about him too, but this probably didnt interest him. These options are currently unfortunately ruled out. This sucks a lot.

Does anyone know how AEM tuning differs from hondata?

 

Be brave! Less talking, more swapping.

 

Yesssss right?

Perhaps I will be the first one to actually finish a j swap civic and share it on here LOL. So many people with hopes and dreams, so few who actually accomplish it.

Now if Vit replies today to the email I sent regarding tuning AEM series 2, and he says he does, I'll probably jizz my pants. If not, then damn, still stuck Dom tune AEM for j32a2 or am I just stuck with an actual dyno and no etune?

I don't wanna trailer my civic 3 hours away to king motorsports after I set up an appointment and have them take 10,000 tries to get the car right and charge me a bazillion dollars. Ugh.

 

Dom ftw

 

If you don't know what you are doing you will end up throwing money into a fire pit, but in your case it will be a civic shaped fire pit.

Also don't forget your talking to a group that has spent or is willing to spend almost $2000 for their exhausts (Precats, J-pipe and cat-back). I have spent about that on Hondata for my TL . If I had a roller in my driveway, I would slap a B20 in the civic with a 4.4 or 4.7 FD+ LSD and have fun or get a B18B1 and boost it. Motor blows up, find another one for cheap, B20 = 87 octane less money on gas for a DD. For the amount of money you are getting into with this civic you could just purchase a used 6MT TL and have fun.

You're putting the cart before the horse, you've started modding it before you swapped it.

 

this guy reminds me of N1h1tty or whatever (victor)

Theoretical racekor for days lol

 

Well, on the plus side, his bank account still lookin fat!
Theoretical mods are the cheapest!

 

 

Lol. I could buy a 6 speed MT with the money is be putting into the civic. That's why I like to keep prices low Not to mention it'll be faster.

Boosted stock b18b1s usually don't make it past 230whp for long in my experience lol. Them rods always be snapping. Besides, already decided on the J.And I know how to weld so custom parts lol. This will save me some money. Saving money everyday! Question though. J pipe on the j32a2? Or no?
Only theoretical mods now because as we've seen, if I didn't wait I'd be down quite a bit into the hole. But currently looking for parts and stuff too I've had an idea on what supporting mods I've wanted because I know it'll make power or looks good. Where I got to be careful though is the closer I get to 300whp the less bang for buck the mods will become. Do I need cams and a dual throttle body set up? Probably not. But it's a mod I'll look into future just for fun I'd just like something to drive now lmao, like you recent guys been saying. Swap swap swap. I'm not hitting my goal right away, but I'll live for now with what stock has to offer so I'm not a theoretical raceway owner builder for too long lol

 

bro...
k20, stage 3 bisi cam, 3.7 heads bored to 3.9 with a sleeved block to approx ~4 liters for a final of 3.14L and compression ratio of 1:34.50
It'll be fast...trust me.
Consider an upgraded clutch, axles and tires too cause that'll put down a torx from the Gods.

 

Lmao, this guy^

 

• damn bro, you don't like my ideas!?1?
• did they not make sense? it's my first time theoretically modding so i figured there was no getting it wrong.
• sometimes i hate myself
• sometimes i hate others
• swapping seems hard AF.
• i'd rather buy a car with the engine i want already swapped into it (but not from a swap, a swap from the manufacturers)
• if it isn't fast enough I'd rather swap with another car that is.

See, I know stuff.

 

Lmao. Rockstar you on a roll.

Why not just drop a jet engine in and make 10,000hp right of the bat lol. Imagine the tire spin with that LOL.

If you can dream It, it can happen

 

we're still dabbling within the confines of reality here...

 

Fine.

Lsx RWD civic swap

It's been done