MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I thought I would start a thread SPECIFICALLY pertaining to available engine management options for the 3G TL 3.2 V6 cars as many of us are long past the point in mods where we really need to get into something of this nature. Please keep your posts specific to engine managment options and discussions so we might be able to collaborate our efforts here into one good information resource for all of us. I know there are some out here that have extensive knowledge and experience with what you have tired on your TL engine management wise and also a lot of others who have tried nothing and are here to learn more about how to accomplish this task. The Honda Accord guys are having some success in this regard....so it cant be that hard for us to accomplish the same. So...guys with experience therein, speak up and do tell us the straight poop here! I will start discussions off here....but some of it may be right or wrong....but for the sake of discussion, we need to start somewhere. I have been reading everywhere on this topic and here is what I am seeing...

Options:

I am under the impression that there are a few options for us out there that I have seen or mentioned used on Accords and/or TL's here and on other sites...

Greddy E-Manage Ulimate
Greddy E-Manage Blue
AEM F/IC
Apexi

Issues:

From what I have read, while the E-manage Ultimate is a better unit with more tuning parameters - nobody has effectively been able to use them all on the 3G TL's, thus making it a bit of a waste. I am understanding that the E-Manage Blue is the best choice for us, but could be wrong. From what I am reading, the Honda Accord guys have been having good luck with the old tried and true E-Manage Blue Units though.

Open Loop / Closed Loop Issues:

From what I am reading...the 3G TL's are slow to come out of closed loop mode. (06WDP-TL States) The only way i know on how to change when you can switch off closed loop at an earlier onset or lower load is by messing with the stock calibration itself on the ecu (Hondata reflashing it to do so). Piggybacks are only able to alter once its out of closed loop, as you already know.

The piggyback will attempt to change the signal during closed loop, the ecu will fight its signal away and bring it back to stock.

(Lookinco states) Seems like others are having good result with tuning within the close loop mode. The E-manage Ultimate has more tuning options, but for the TL, most of them are useless. We mainly just need to add more fuel and retard the timing. The AEM F/IC tune the close loop mode by adjusting the feedback from the O2 sensors. Normal in close loop mode the O2 sensor would tell the ECU if the engine is running lean or rich and thus the ECU would adjust the fuel trim so the AF stays around 14.7. With the AEM F/IC, you are able to skew the feedback from the O2 sensors so that the long term and short term fuel trim stays close to zero. This way you can add or subtract fuel without having to worry about the ECU reversing the changes you made.

In the E-manage case, you cannot adjust the O2 feedback. So when you try to add or subtract fuel, the O2 sensors would tell the ECU that it's running too rich or lean, and the ECU would readjust to make the AF go back to 14.7.

Hopefully it will work the way it's supposed to!


Please continue this discussion....this is good information that we all need to know and develop out together so we can get some true engine management options workable for our cars, Supercharged or Not! We are all modding to the point where we could all benefit from such an occurance!

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

just wanted to add that I have gone back and forth with boomslang regarding their pnp harness for the tl

currently boomslang has harnesses for both 3.2 and 3.5 manual and auto for the greddy blue and ultimate

for the apexi controller, they stated that although they can make a harness for it the only parameters available for tuning are air fuel ratio

for the aem f/ic they stated that they can make a harness for it aswell but that aem has not conducted any tests with the honda v6 motor

to sum up what I've written above, we can have a plug and play harness readily available for $200-$250 shipped for the piggyback of our choice

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

guys like i said, just go with the blue unit. ill take some pics of my dyno graphs today, when i got both units tuned to my car.

the ultimate doesnt really "fine tune" better than the blue since both use 16x16 cell a/f/,ign maps. the ultimate is more flexable however and can scale down larger injectors than the blue can, from 25% to 50%, but we will never need that anyways. even if we ran 10psi, 25% bigger (max) is all we would need.


the only trouble i had with the blue was going rich after 6000rpm, so i need to go back and get retuned. the other guy did the tuning last time, but im going to ask shawn to tune it exclusively for me next time.

swift22

THE AEM F/IC i have learned about as well and it is meant for OBD2 vehicles. For $500 it is awesome. They do make a "universal" but most will wait till they get done testing on motor. They just got done with NSX now confirmed. So if someone is close to there testing facility and can loan them a I/H/E TL they should be able to do it relatively quick and get it on market. You can hook it up to fire secondary injectors for added fuel for boost in high levels also! Pretty slick setup.

ndabunka

Why do I have a feeling that this is going to be a VERY short thread?

type-s09

my car has about a 13.2 a/f ratio...sometimes on the dyno around the 6k rpm mark it will drop to pig rich...around the 10.5 area...i think its just part of the complex ecu in our cars to help with emiissions ....another time i made two dyno runs within 5 mins of each other and the second run it put around 7 whp lower than it did the first time..and thats through the whole rpm band, the only way i see that happening is the ecu pulling timing...

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

lol, why you say that?

*sigh* =/

you can do the same thing with the ultimate.... all the FI/C is, is a glorified ultimate unit, with wider 20x16 tuning maps. dont get me wrong, it would be reallllyyy nice if they made one for our cars, but keep dreaming if you think thats going to happen anytime soon. GAURANTEED you will run into the same problems with the ignition maps.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

did you get shawn to tune ur ultimate to fix the powerband?

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

i went last week to get tuned a day before peter. shawn was never able to flatten out the hp curve on the blue unit. my boost started to spike @ 7psi towards the end. i was getting a major exhaust restriction from the procats > they heated up way too much while my car was on the dyno, so we had to stop.

im getting the cats hollowed out asap and going to wire up my frankenstien blue/ultimate combo and get my RDX injectors installed. im buying the AEM boost cooler too after talking with shawn, he said meth injection is the way to go, plus its waayyy cheaper than getting a custom FMIC set-up done. now that i have my battery relocated, i have plenty of space for the 2.5gallon tank to hold the meth/water.

been sitting on my HBP for over a year and a half, time to put that thing to good use!

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

my jaw just dropped...

...

nicepeta

Chieu @ C & C in CA already made blue/ultimate combo done in my car!
Sean will be next! with 3.2 motor!!! even tho my is still 3.0
ya i had the Accord like 04accordcpe but im using TL ECU.
which mean, this can be done in TLs car.
here is the pic...

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

I am curious to see how they wired them up... did they splice into the boomslang harnesses...?

reason for asking: well boomslang can make a plug and play harness letting us use both emanage units and 1 harness

it would be a great help for someone like me doing secret work

shehmir9

so which control unit would everybody go with? and what harness kit?

cause theres only one person on here saying which one to get and its really not helpin a idiot like me at all.

my tl isnt even driveable right now cause of the knock sensor and lag going on ...

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

both

get the ultimate with PnP harness from boomslang and the blue emanage with universal harness. splice about 8-10 wires into the ultimate harness from the blue and your done.

ultimate for injectors

blue for ign timing and vtec control

shehmir9

this is more costly and harder than i thought ...

evanj5

Ok so can someone point me in the right direction, this is something that I am considering in the near future. What is the cost of everything that I need and better yet wheres the best place to buy everything?

As well could the tuning be done yourself if you just want to start making small adjustments, my car pings just like a lot of other TL's out there and I believe this will be the solution.

06WDP-TL

i dont understand your concept.

Ultimate already controls all 3 by itself. Fuel, timing, vtec, etc. (although i would highly recommend against changing vtec engagement points via piggybacks b/c u need to be able to tune per cam angles as well)

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

i know that lol.

the way the ignition is controlled by the ultimate, is not compatible with our style ecu's. ive tried everything to get it to work the 1 1/2 years ive ran it on my car... i even drove to greddy's headquaters and had their head tech guy plug into it, but he came up short too. the blue however does contol both, but it doesnt have input/output for the injectors. it is limited and can only add fuel, not take away. so if the ecu flips out like mine was doing and starts dumping fuel, the blue cant do anything about it.

so when it comes to tuning, pairing up the blue/ultimate combo is the closest we come to having full control

your best bet to save money is to buy everything used. you can probably get both units off ebay for around 300-400, with the universal harnesses. then the boomslang PnP will set you back about 200.

everything new will cost you about 800.00 then you have to get a tune on top of that. if your daring enough street tune it yourself

evanj5

Ok so he has the ultimate just for the non stock injectors correct??

So if I just want to adjust timing and a/f I could just use blue??

Whats the cost, where do i get the stuff, can I start making small adjustments myself, and how does it work, need a laptop?? etc etc etc.

feed me info plz

06WDP-TL

Interesting combination!

Didnt realize the Ultimate cannot subtract fuel for the J-series. As for datalogging, which Emanage would u log to figure out to make more changes?

Also, what injectors are u using in this combination?

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

no, the blue units the one that cant subtract fuel. the ultimate wont allow you to adjust the timing.

im using the rsx-s injectors (310cc) which is must if you plan on tuning with the emanage. remember, stock injectors arent enough and are easily maxed out with a good tune.

if anybody is interested in some rsx-s injectors LMK. i have them in the for sale section.

evanj5

What about stock TL-S injectors for NA applications?

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

for n/a there is no need for swapping injectors as it is a basic tune

ps... if you tune with the ultimate send me that file...

evanj5

im gonna look for an ultimate used so I can tune the a/f and timing.

Ill let you know

Its not gonna be for awhile because i want to wait for the exhaust , ATLP that is

nicepeta

youll need both if you want a/f and timing.
otherwise go for blue cuz ultimate can not adj timing.

evanj5

OK where should I purchase the correct harnass and boomslang???

Can get the emange for under 300 on ebay, just need the harnasses correct?

evanj5

OK where should I purchase the correct harnass and boomslang???

Can get the emange for under 300 on ebay, just need the harnasses correct?

Wow someone on forums just had the whole package for sale and sold it today

evanj5

http://www.coolcart.com/cgi-bin/shop...mslang/harness

(So I am assuming the 06 MT boomslang will work on TL-S ???????)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUPPO...spagenameZWDVW


(I have a laptop that works but is just sitting in the garage waiting to be used)


last but not least

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AUTHE...spagenameZWD1V


And then I will be set to go to a tuner and get a tune?????

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

e-mail boomslang... they have the harness for the type s just not listed on their site... they can have it made for you at no extra charge

rabid_zealot

This thread is a bit stale. However, has anyone checked into Haltech? I've heard good things about them. Also, has the Greddy eManage Ultimate had any improvements in the last 3 months to fix the short comings?

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

you can add the AFC NEO to this list

TRINI-2-DE-BONE

Sales belong in the Black Market Section

TL|GTX

Why, is our ecu's so dam complicated, and thier is nothing that can fully change settings in our ecu.

nibalm3

it seems like no company want to make parts for our j32a3 engines..
not even a full tunning from hondata, emanage... What are they scared of ?
since 2004 , I have tt dreams!

TL|GTX

Well 1 reason is that the compression is so high in our engines, and thier isn't much to do, without totally rebuilding our engine. And twinturbo will need a new motor, depends on how much psi, but with a 2turbo will use 19psi+more. And you jus't can't fit a single turbo.

IntegraType-S

anybody thought about megasquirt

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

bro just contact the mods and tell them to delete your account, cuz it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, and should not be volunteering advice

I hate cars

I wish it were that easy but we can't use a stand alone since the ECM is tied into so many other systems. Otherwise it would be as easy as a Megasquirt, FAST, Motec, or any other popular standalone.

Besides, not that anyone cares but the ULEV status would be gone. I've found that after running a FAST and Motec on the Buick, nothing compares to a factory ECM as far as gas mileage and drivability and I'm one of the few that has gone back to a very modded factory ECM.

I hate cars

lol

Sonnick