I know that headers aren't available for the 3rd generation TLs.
...I was hoping someone could essentially explain why not? From what I can understand, it has something to do with the fact that...something's welded on to the block, as apposed to being bolted on?

Is there some sort of replacement for headers? I'm not talking exhaust, or any other sort of mods, but something that we could use to REPLACE the uh...inability to have headers? Get my question?

Thanks,
Eric

NO replacement or anything, the best you can do is precat deletes.

The headers for forged into the engine block, so its all one piece. There won't even be a way to change just the headers, it sucks but we have to live with it.

RV6 Precat delete pipes for the win.

Yes...the exhaust manifolds on this model car are cast right into the heads and catalytic converters are bolted directly to these ports...therefore they cant be removed to install the traditional "header pipes" - so necessity invented replacement pipes to delete the cats out of the system partially or entirely....depending on your taste.

Rv6 pcd ftw, 2 bad we dont have headers, but are close to it thanks to richie....

procats still around or are they now collector's items?

richie might make a pair of hiflowing cats

and he's been talking about a race header for a real long time

which would consist of 2 full pieces very much like the prototype piece on the thunderhill tl

front 4 bolt flange down all the way to the collector no seperation, and rear being the same precat... essentially eliminating 1 flange at the front cat and 2 flanges at the 3rd cat

What would be the benifits over the pcd???

Hi,

don't know much about it but anyone has the link or pix for those RV6? I thought about removing all 3 cats cause i have the engine lights on and it's annoying. + perhaps can gain a bit of Horse power.
thanks

Still got mine...not giving them up any time soon.

still running mine 30K with no problems at all

Huh...I will have to video my ProCats....they are briquettes at this point. You guys DO know they are not ULEV rated cats dont you so they will not last the duration....especially if supercharged. You will likely never know they are baked until you remove them BTW.....

what exactly are the "pro"cats x_X

I thought you were running precat deletes? Any chance I could borrow and see how they get around the intermediate shaft.

They come with mechanical O2 simulators so you are all set.

Take them out and look inside

I am running the precat deletes now. The ProCats are sitting on my garage floor right now. They rattle inside....like whats in em is one solid mass now! Kinda like a briquette! Its funny....I was suprised when I took em off that they didnt cause me issues before then!

As for borrowing them....dude.....you know you can stop by anytime. I will let you borrow em for a while....no prob! Its all good here! Just give me a rip when you are in town and you can come by or we can meet somewhere. I should be hosting some local meets soon for a local forum in Indy...so maybe you would want to hit that up in case I am an axe murderer or just plain fucking strange! Then you could easily escape! lol Seriously...its cool...no prob! Just hit me up.

^

^^ I wanna check out your car i need to see the SC in person!!! i really want one!!!!

Got'em too! Still going strong (knock on wood), I visually checked them when I replaced my OEM A-pipe with an ATLP one. It's been about 20,000 miles since installing them.

I still maintain that either CAIs or excessive time past VTEC is burning them up...

The charger burns them up

^ the charger does burn them up... but i was N/A on my blackura, and 2 out of 3 of mine kept having problems.... the only one that was fine was the 3rd pro-cat

i had my cats on the charger for 5k, they look fine, but im glad i swapped em because my car hauls ass even more now....

What are pro-cats? Are they like pre-cats?

It's the ULEV status that burns them up. During warmup, the computer dumps extra fuel, retards timing, and commands intentional misfires to fire off the cats quicker. A normal cat like the Procats will not hold up to this extra heat. You're making more heat during the warm up cycle than you're making with the blower. Only difference is they get an extra pounding after the warm up cycle with the blower.

you guys think magnaflow spun cats can holdup?

they were hi-flowing cats made by a company called e-shift... they were pricey (i believe i paid about $1100 for them) and a lot of them failed

couldnt have said it better myself... the substrates in the pro-cats werent designed to be that close to the engine block.. when the car first fires up, its in "closed loop?" i believe, which dumps an abnormal amount of fuel in.... thats why, us folks who are catless (full or partially) can REALLY smell the fumes when the car is warming up... i know my car smells like a 70 chevelle LS6 454 engine when i turn it on

YUP! When I pulled the third cat to install the race pipe, I found little fragments of metal from the precats...not a whole lot, though. jusr enough to make me go . Third cat looks great though. This was after approx 15k mile with the blower.

Half way through reading this, I was thinking, "Man...this guy knows his shit." ...he sounds like...I Hate Cars... Always on top of it!

I know what you mean, Allon. Smells beautiful don't it?...better than coffee. and I still got my precats in!

small clarification:

Open loop - the ecu IS NOT taking into account the information from oxygen sensors and other sources of feedback. The ecu is instead using a fixed (programmed) set of tables to determine air/fuel ratios. This is what you were referring to. The ecu is most commonly in open loop for warm up and at WOT.

Closed loop - the ecu IS taking into account the information from oxygen and other sensors to change the air/fuel ratios to improve efficiency and decrease emmisions. The ecu is most commonly in closed loop during normal driving after the engine has warmed up.

LOL I can't believe I didn't see this post. I was going to stop by the last time I was in Indy but ran out of time. I dont know now...............

I was wondering what happened to you!

ugh...so THAT's why it smells worse on intial start ups. The system's dumping fuel in eh? Is that why we have that "grinding" noise on initial start ups to? It's faint, but definitely there...only noticed it after the precats were installed.

That da*# smell's nauseating...

is that partially why it takes so long for the system to recognize that the cats are missing? my cel code read - cats under threshold?

Yes. The ecu runs in open loop mode while the catalytic converters and engine heat up. Once the engine reaches a certain temperature, the ecu will start checking Oxygen sensors and if a catalytic converter is not functioning properly (or has been removed), the ecu will then display a code. It should then switch back to closed loop mode.