On a stock TL, mix it 50/50 and you're set. Plus you save money. You'll notice it pulls smoother and this is because the knock sensor is no longer pulling timing. Even more so than hp, you will feel an increase in low end torque when you floor it. It's not a big difference but if you're in tune with your car you'll feel the difference.

I'm going to dyno mine again and I think I'm going to start with 1/4 tank of 91, get some baselines and then dump in a few gallons of 100. This will prove or disprove the myth once and for all. I'm waiting for a nice 105 degree day to do this.

No exhaust sound change.

 

I meant higher than normal octane cause in Texas we have 93 octane I've put those octane boosters and they don't help at all!

 

Yeah I agree about the octane boosters. They are a gimmic IMO. Why spend the 6-10 bucks on 1 pint of octane booster when you can spend 6.99 a gallon for 100 octane and get your moneys worth!

 

I should have figured you meant higher than pump.. depends on the conditions.. higher octane allows advance timing to get the most out of your engine but.. it only goes so far..

 

Ok so I'll try a 50/50 mix this week. And I'll post the results up.Its not 105 out here but its in the low 90's i guess it wont make that much of a difference once I'm flooring it

koo

 

good thread. i'm heading to the track in a couple weeks and want to know if a squirt of 100 unleaded they sell will be worth it

 

If you have the option, it would be neat to make a couple passes on pump gas then with the mix and note the mph change (if any).

 

Why do some pumps have 91 octance? I have 93 whereever i go here in wisconsin, you ninty-onerers are getting jipped

 

sounds like the labs i use too have in high school. Ill try too get 3 passes of pump gas and 3 of just 100, then 3 of the mixture and see the difference.
(i have too much time on my hands...haha)

 

weird...here in south cali all we have is 87/89/91 Its extremely rare for me to find a 93 octane station. (from my knowledge) Funny thing is i know of more 100 octane stations than 93
...which is 1 station

 

93 in the south, too. I think there's 94 or 95 in the New England area.

 

That would be interesting. In reality, you're going to have your hands full with the launch and everything else associated with the strip. The octane mixtures are going to play an extremely small role if any in ETs.

 

I had that in mind too,sounds like its going too be a lot of work to factor all that in at the end of the day.

 

Both of these guys are great resources! I couldn't have said it better.

 

Sunoco around me stopped carrying 94 (north Jersey) I dont' know why maybe not enough people buying i guess. The Sunoco by the ledgewood circle used to have 110 octane, I have't been up there in a while but I assume they still have it.

 

I hate to change the complete nature of this thread, but this just blows my mind.

Unless your car is specifically tuned to run at 100 octane, you get absolutely zero positive effects aside from the different smell.

This is verbatim, straight from wikipedia:

"Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression, and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

I have an extremely qualified source that I asked this question to and he laughed in my face. He works for a company that provides consulting data to large oil and refining companies for blending fuel. www.ifqc.org

 

I'm not trying to bash on you guys. I totally am accepting of the idea that some of you have built cars that actually would benefit from the octane increase because of boost or some extreme machine work.

Bolt ons and intake/exhaust need not apply. I'm talking about serious motor work.

 

I do agree that 100 octane is a waste, but it is possible that the TL may see better performance with a higher grade of octane 93 to 96. Some cars take advantage of it and some don't. Years ago Sport Compact Car magazine tested their stock 350Z with 91 then 96 then 100. The VQ35 saw almost a 10whp gain with the 95 and a few less hp with the 100. The finding obviously was the Nissan ECU can take advantage of a higher octane fuel. The J series could see the same thing, maybe not.

 

You've made a broad generalization with no TL specific knowlege.

I've done the research with many hours with a scan tool hooked up and 91 up to 100 octane. The TL does benefit from higher than 91 and 93 octane.

It will show knock retard until I'm somewhere in the neighborhood of 96 octane. The Acura engineers were greedy in the tuning so unfortunately there's always knock retard going on with pump gas. I could always feel a slight surge, put a scanner on it and sure enough there was knock. As the knock goes away, the torque comes back and the surging goes away.

100 octane is a waste but half and half is not.

I should add that the pinging is not just at WOT but in normal driving too.

 

I remember back in high school, I did used several times high octane fuel it was like over 100, and whenever I wanted, I had to fill it at the airport...

It was extremely power boost to my little...

Just word of advice, don't use it so regularly, and also don't fill the whole tank...

Those who have used might know what I mean...

 

The 100LL Av gas has tons and I mean tons of lead. I did not realize this until it was too late. My methanol dealer shut down so I ran 100LL for a year. Worst mistake ever. I went from being able to run 24psi boost at first and toward the end I could only run 10psi before pinging.. I went though every imaginable cause and couldn't find it. Finally when I went to put some better heads on it I found the problem. I have never in my life seen so much lead/carbon buildup. It looked like it had over a million miles on it....literally. Compression must've been raised by 2 points. A word of advice, don't run it if you have cats and if you do run it, mix it with pump gas.

 

I appreciate the detailed info. Like I said I am not bashing because I don't have any first hand data or knowledge. I do realize that some auto makers tune their motors to benefit from higher octane, but I just wanted to provide some fundamental information about the common perception of race fuel.

Sadly the days of carburated cars is gone and we're restricted to what our car's ECU can handle.

I do find it interesting that there are proven gains upon increasing octane. I'd love to get my hands on some dyno graphs or emissions cross sections that exhibit this phenomenon.

 

I remember when the J30 came out for the accord. Honda approved the engine to run on regular although one of Honda's V6 engineer's (Yasuaki Asaki) said you'd gain 10 points in hp & tq by using premium.. just another testament that these engines need higher octane. It's amazing that the engine pulls timing on 93 but not suprising..

 

If we could only add a little timing while running 100 octane, that would make it beneficial especially on FI cars. Some of you guys might be surprised at how much power a FI car can pick up by adding 2 or 3 degrees of timing.

 

^+1 That's what "I hate cars" has been saying. The TL has been known too run well in around 97 octane due too its thirst in octane

 

Great example! But it sucks that you learned the hard way

 

"Thirst in octane".. that's rich.. no pun intended.

IHC.. you think it's cheaper to do meth injection if we make it a DIY? Any other cheap / cheaper forms of injection to effectively increase octane to the 96 region?

edit: I just looked up 100LL, ironic LL stands for "low lead".. I guess you put a tank through the engine = lots of lead..

 

on my old 16V GTI, advancing the timing a couple degrees was similar to the gain of throwing on a j-pipe.

oh, and it was easy!

 

That's exactly what I had to learn the hard way. Low lead means low in comparison to the older av gas. Compared to automotive leaded race gas it's on the order of 4 times the lead. I saw the LL on the end and thought it was a great thing. I've never looked at the burn rate on this stuff but I'm guessing it's slow, way slower than the 116 octane I run at the track. I had to bump the timing an extra 6 degrees to get back up to the power level it was at on 91 and then raise the boost for the real gains. I had slower turbo spool also On any of the race gases with no other changes (timing or boost), I can't tell the difference over 91. Av gas was the only one that I had issues with.

Not sure it if would be worth messing with meth injection on a stockish TL. I mean, if you were dedicated to keeping it out of the pinging region and you always ran a mix of 100 and pump gas, it may be worth it. In NA trim you would have to barely trickle it in to stop it from losing power. I say it's worth it to stop the pinging but not worth the dollar per hp gained.

 

Adjustable Cam gear Ned?

I had one on my turbo 8v golf and I played with timing and found a few degrees made big changes. I thought my clutch was starting to slip but it was the tires breaking loose in 3rd. Although a few weeks later it was my clutch slipping, haha.

 

I would assume ignition timing...

 

a little rusty, but you could get a pinch more advance by twisting the stator cover.

 

+1 - You are correct.

CAM 110 Racing Fuel is leaded!

Beware when looking at these fuels.

 

nice i did't know that

 

There is a 110 or 105 unleaded but it's expensive as hell.

 

It says on the PUMP or the barrel it comes in FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY if its LEADED. Its up to the consumer to use it the right way.

True that contaminates them both. You could also check to see if its available at certain off road shops and also motorcycle shops. They usually sell it in 5 Gallon pales. Just make sure you get the right type for your vehicle, There is so many types of fuels available all with different burn rates and specific gravities. A few brands are FL Fuels, VP, Trick, 76, and Sunoco. You could check on their websites to see what will work for you, could also check to see were their product is available at.

 

Yes,, I run it on my 2 stroke Quad. I buy it at the pump and its been going up little by little, They have 100 unleaded and 100, 110, 114 leaded. I used to pay around 5 a gallon now with all the fuel prices its going to suck at about 7.50-8.00 a gallon. What really bites is that I use about 15 to 20 gallons of 110 on my quad every month between October and March when I go out Glamis and go riding.

 

I recently ran the 109 unleaded in the TL, mixed of course. I think I paid around $11 a gallon. Not something I want to make a habit of but it's a good safety net for track days.

 

$300-400 Meth injection kit.

For the price of a gallon of 100+ octane gas, you can get 2.5 gallons of 99% methanol. Do a 70/30 mix with distilled water, and you end up with about 3 gallons of mix.

Run that through your meth injection, of a 3-quart tank, 225 mil/min nozzle, at full throttle only. It will last you plenty, and you end up doing 3 things...

1: lower intake temps
2: increase octane
3: lower combustion temps (30% water mix)

On NA application, id say run pure meth, but a little mix of water such as 20-30% wont hurt, and will do some wonders in the combustion chamber temps

Thats my answer to "high octane"

And you have the methanol injection system for whatever car you want, if you ever change cars, so its not a lost investment

 

I keep saying I'm going to try this on the TL and I always get busy. My GN is down and I have no plans to fix it for a while. All I need to do is remove it and reinstall on the TL with a smaller jet. All I would be out is a little time. It will also so wonders for keeping the combustion chambers carbon free. Never again have to do a decarbonization.