08 MT TL Type S New Dyno Results
11-15-2010, 08:53 AM
#121
Instructor
Thread Starter
Does anyone know what are the Dyno Gains on the polished and ported intake runners for TL or TL Type S...I am about to do this final mod before returning to the states...After Xmas I will start on the complete head work and the BisiCams...for now I am going to do the intake runners...I heard that on a Accord its about 9whp...
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the fenda rolla (11-14-2011)
11-15-2010, 09:05 AM
#122
Team Owner
Does anyone know what are the Dyno Gains on the polished and ported intake runners for TL or TL Type S...I am about to do this final mod before returning to the states...After Xmas I will start on the complete head work and the BisiCams...for now I am going to do the intake runners...I heard that on a Accord its about 9whp...
You might as well do it now but I look at the intake tract as a whole unit. Free it up from the air filter to the combustion chamber. Same with the exhaust, and the cam will tie it all together.
As Ethanol pointed out, we have the compression already and I'm hoping this will help to lessen any low end loss from the cams. Just don't be scared the first time you do a compression check after the cam install. Chances are the comp is going to be a bit lower than factory spec depending on how aggressive you go.
Last edited by I hate cars; 11-15-2010 at 09:08 AM.
11-16-2010, 07:48 AM
#123
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have placed and order for BFGoodRich R-1 Tires...245/40/17ZR...Almost slick but not quite...Anyways I told my mechanic to remove the check valve from the clutch for better application...And I am still standing by on intake runner prices...All this should be a great setup for the track...CBR-169 used the same tires when he ran 13.3@103 and thats about close that I will get to slick tires anyways...
Headwork and cam updgrade will be left as a project for later. I believe we should be running a good 13.5 secs on the 1/4 mile...a few tweaks like the check valve and the possibility of some other gains from the intake runners should help achieve the numbers with these tires. My friend's intake runners' upgrade achieved 9whp on a Honda Accord, I am expecting the same at least hopefully a few more since its a 3.5L engine....
Any other suggestions? Comments? or Opinions?
Headwork and cam updgrade will be left as a project for later. I believe we should be running a good 13.5 secs on the 1/4 mile...a few tweaks like the check valve and the possibility of some other gains from the intake runners should help achieve the numbers with these tires. My friend's intake runners' upgrade achieved 9whp on a Honda Accord, I am expecting the same at least hopefully a few more since its a 3.5L engine....
Any other suggestions? Comments? or Opinions?
11-16-2010, 01:22 PM
#124
All motor
I have placed and order for BFGoodRich R-1 Tires...245/40/17ZR...Almost slick but not quite...Anyways I told my mechanic to remove the check valve from the clutch for better application...And I am still standing by on intake runner prices...All this should be a great setup for the track...CBR-169 used the same tires when he ran 13.3@103 and thats about close that I will get to slick tires anyways...
Headwork and cam updgrade will be left as a project for later. I believe we should be running a good 13.5 secs on the 1/4 mile...a few tweaks like the check valve and the possibility of some other gains from the intake runners should help achieve the numbers with these tires. My friend's intake runners' upgrade achieved 9whp on a Honda Accord, I am expecting the same at least hopefully a few more since its a 3.5L engine....
Any other suggestions? Comments? or Opinions?
Headwork and cam updgrade will be left as a project for later. I believe we should be running a good 13.5 secs on the 1/4 mile...a few tweaks like the check valve and the possibility of some other gains from the intake runners should help achieve the numbers with these tires. My friend's intake runners' upgrade achieved 9whp on a Honda Accord, I am expecting the same at least hopefully a few more since its a 3.5L engine....
Any other suggestions? Comments? or Opinions?
What Accord yielded a 9whp gain? MT or auto? What year, etc?
Definitely do the check valve delete. I've still yet to do it
11-16-2010, 02:16 PM
#125
Instructor
Thread Starter
Actually it was a 07 Accord...I believe it is a 3.5L as well...The check valve is being removed and they took the intake runners out for some porting...The power will be there...you are soooo right...It will all come down to the launch...Any tips on TL Type S ball park RPM for launching? I know I have to take into account tires, track conditions etc...but for a start i was thinking somewhere around 2,500 rpm or so and let the clutch slip a little bit
11-16-2010, 03:37 PM
#126
All motor
If it was an 07 it was a 3.0L. If it was a 3.5L it was an 08+ 
I'd start at 2000RPM and go up from there. Honestly though, with those tires, I'd start at 3500 and work on letting the clutch out quickly without just dumping it.
I'd start at 2000RPM and go up from there. Honestly though, with those tires, I'd start at 3500 and work on letting the clutch out quickly without just dumping it.
11-16-2010, 05:23 PM
#127
Team Owner
Get used to launching with the gas to the floor and adjust rpms to get the best launch.
I would drive these tires to the track to get as much heat in them as possible. Do a short burnout but remember these aren't a drag tire. I would start by spinning them until you see smoke and stop. Increase each time until you get less traction. Don't decrease pressure below 30psi. They have a stiff sidewall and lowering pressure will only hurt traction below a certain point.
11-16-2010, 05:24 PM
#128
Team Owner
I wanted to emphasize your point of letting it out quickly without dumping it. That's great advice to a good 60' and not tearing up the car.
11-17-2010, 12:10 AM
#129
All motor
11-17-2010, 01:44 AM
#130
Burning Brakes
I hate to say it, but R-spec rubber is not remotely the same as drag racing rubber.
1) R-spec tires need a decent amount of heat cycling in order to warm up (ie a few laps, not burnouts). Do a burnout on R-spec rubber and it will become slick.
2) R-spec tires are designed for lateral stick and acceleration, not really straight-line grip.
3) R-spec tires have very stiff sidewalls for lateral grip. Drag tires have overly soft sidewalls.
I've had numerous friends think that R-spec rubber should work as a drag radial. It doesn't. Their 60 foots were no better than running a decent summer rated tire and often times worse. My friend has 305 width R-spec tires on his 06 Stang and was pulling 2.0-2.1 60 foots. He then went to drag radials and was getting high 1.8s/low 1.9s. Then he went to 26" slicks and was doing low 1.7s/high 1.6s. The difference was car running a 13.6s@104mph vs running a 12.9s@104mph.
1) R-spec tires need a decent amount of heat cycling in order to warm up (ie a few laps, not burnouts). Do a burnout on R-spec rubber and it will become slick.
2) R-spec tires are designed for lateral stick and acceleration, not really straight-line grip.
3) R-spec tires have very stiff sidewalls for lateral grip. Drag tires have overly soft sidewalls.
I've had numerous friends think that R-spec rubber should work as a drag radial. It doesn't. Their 60 foots were no better than running a decent summer rated tire and often times worse. My friend has 305 width R-spec tires on his 06 Stang and was pulling 2.0-2.1 60 foots. He then went to drag radials and was getting high 1.8s/low 1.9s. Then he went to 26" slicks and was doing low 1.7s/high 1.6s. The difference was car running a 13.6s@104mph vs running a 12.9s@104mph.
11-17-2010, 01:54 AM
#131
Burning Brakes
As for the racing, have you ever raced in 1/4 mile? If not, don't set your sights terribly high because we all thought we were John Force until we got that first slip and noticed how hard it really is. Also, you've got to stop comparing your car may possibly run to what this CBR-169 guy did in his TL (13.3@103mph). He ran in the dead of winter and on a very quick track. His runs are anomlies compared to what most every other TL/TLS seems to run. You'll likely be very dissappointed if you expect your car to perform like his did.
Drag racing tips can be found here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/drag-racing-tips-635906/
Drag racing tips can be found here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/drag-racing-tips-635906/
Launching a manual
I don't know how many times I've heard someone say that their FWD car can't put down the power in 1st. It just keeps spinning and spinning. Well, you're doing it wrong then. The key is throttle modulation, clutch slip, and patience. Believe it or not, you're probably going to have to launch that 6MT TL or TLS at 4000-5000rpms. I'm sure most of you are saying, no freaking way. Well, I was able to launch my 2850lb Maxima with 205whp/200wtq on bald 215/60R15 Goodyear RSAs from 4500-5000rpms and net low 2.1 60 foots like clockwork. It's easy once you understand what needs to happen.
1) Release the clutch just right before it catches and bring up the revs to 3000rpms.
2) Release the clutch slowly until you feel the car start to roll, then quickly release the clutch while feeding in the gas. You're goal to keep the rpms up above 3000rpms and keep spin to a minimum. Also, you may not be able to go full throttle until 4500 to 5000rpms. You shouldn't have to slip the clutch a whole lot either. DO NOT GET GREEDY WITH THE THROTTLE!
3) If the car bogged down then took off, you need to increase launch rpm by 500rpms and see what happens.
The overall goal is to come off the line with the most force possible and the least spin as possible. With street tires, it's going to be an interesting battle between spin, clutch slip, and probably a litte wheel hop.
I don't know how many times I've heard someone say that their FWD car can't put down the power in 1st. It just keeps spinning and spinning. Well, you're doing it wrong then. The key is throttle modulation, clutch slip, and patience. Believe it or not, you're probably going to have to launch that 6MT TL or TLS at 4000-5000rpms. I'm sure most of you are saying, no freaking way. Well, I was able to launch my 2850lb Maxima with 205whp/200wtq on bald 215/60R15 Goodyear RSAs from 4500-5000rpms and net low 2.1 60 foots like clockwork. It's easy once you understand what needs to happen.
1) Release the clutch just right before it catches and bring up the revs to 3000rpms.
2) Release the clutch slowly until you feel the car start to roll, then quickly release the clutch while feeding in the gas. You're goal to keep the rpms up above 3000rpms and keep spin to a minimum. Also, you may not be able to go full throttle until 4500 to 5000rpms. You shouldn't have to slip the clutch a whole lot either. DO NOT GET GREEDY WITH THE THROTTLE!
3) If the car bogged down then took off, you need to increase launch rpm by 500rpms and see what happens.
The overall goal is to come off the line with the most force possible and the least spin as possible. With street tires, it's going to be an interesting battle between spin, clutch slip, and probably a litte wheel hop.
11-17-2010, 03:48 AM
#132
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yeah yu are right..I need to stop comparing...To whoever...maybe I will even do better. It will just be a matter of time...Thanks for the tips of launching the TL...Every car is different...that I why I try to get the tips....I have been to the track plenty of times but not with this car so for me it will be a first. The tire is gonna do a good job, intake runners are getting done right now check valve job is completed.
11-18-2010, 07:01 AM
#133
Burning Brakes
good luck with everything
....funny about this launching thing, I've driven stick shift all my life since I was 16 and just got my UA7 5at and I just was so amazed how hard it was for me to launch a 5at car then manual...manual comes so second hand nature that I really got used to being in control when launching and doing everything...with 5at when I went to the track i was like hmm power brake?no power brake? e-brake?no? drive mode? ss mode? just step on gas? 
so much different ways to do it...but yeah each car is diffirent and trial and error will be only way to know what you will run....good luck and hope
that goal is hit for you...it should be interesting and i for 1 am hoping you achieve that goal TL-S 6mt FTW!!!......(if only mine was a 6mt
)
....funny about this launching thing, I've driven stick shift all my life since I was 16 and just got my UA7 5at and I just was so amazed how hard it was for me to launch a 5at car then manual...manual comes so second hand nature that I really got used to being in control when launching and doing everything...with 5at when I went to the track i was like hmm power brake?no power brake? e-brake?no? drive mode? ss mode? just step on gas? so much different ways to do it...but yeah each car is diffirent and trial and error will be only way to know what you will run....good luck and hope that goal is hit for you...it should be interesting and i for 1 am hoping you achieve that goal TL-S 6mt FTW!!!......(if only mine was a 6mt)
11-18-2010, 12:24 PM
#134
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hey Boston..Thanks there buddy...I believe that intake runners will be done and mounted by saturday...Hopefully we can get a dyno run out of it...This friend of mine did it for an 07 accord and achieve 9whp...Thats very nice...With temperature dropping a little bit and less humidity and the new port and polished intake runners...I will be very satisfied to see an impressive 300whp...Time will tell...2 weeks left to go to the race track tires are on the way. Between now and next week I will be posting a new video of the dyno run and graph to see what can we get.
11-19-2010, 08:45 AM
#135
Instructor
Thread Starter
Man i just got pics from the intake runners before and after...They look swweeeeeeetttt!!!! Install is on the way...Hopefully good gains...I will keep you all posted
11-19-2010, 08:58 AM
#136
All motor
Post up the pics!!!!
Hope everything works out smoothly and you gain some good power! If the Accord gained 9whp from them, I may have to replicate Did he have any other mods as well? Was he auto or MT?
Hope everything works out smoothly and you gain some good power! If the Accord gained 9whp from them, I may have to replicate
Did he have any other mods as well? Was he auto or MT?
11-19-2010, 10:21 AM
#137
Instructor
Thread Starter
I think he was MT...Man I can't wait...I did not purchase the Intake Runners from P2R or XLR8 waaayyy to expensive for what they are asking for...I have a friend that is taking care of it...How can I download the pics?
11-20-2010, 11:09 PM
#138
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
As for the racing, have you ever raced in 1/4 mile? If not, don't set your sights terribly high because we all thought we were John Force until we got that first slip and noticed how hard it really is. Also, you've got to stop comparing your car may possibly run to what this CBR-169 guy did in his TL (13.3@103mph). He ran in the dead of winter and on a very quick track. His runs are anomlies compared to what most every other TL/TLS seems to run. You'll likely be very dissappointed if you expect your car to perform like his did.
Drag racing tips can be found here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635906
Drag racing tips can be found here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635906
Can't set your sights high. I've made one full QM run with my car on a track known for having a very rough first 60'. I had the mods I have now, minus the J/race pipes. I remember my friend asking me what I thought I'd run, and after careful consideration of the weather, track conditions and my car, I replied "14.5 @ 100 mph". I then ran 14.5x @ 99.5 on a horrible 2.60 60'. The car was certainly capable of 14 flat that day, even on street tires, but I didn't get overly confident.
11-23-2010, 11:46 AM
#139
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hey guys..The car was dynoed today with the intake runners ported and polished...The mechanic called me saying that...the clutch started to smell a bit, so it looks like it is time to change clutch...They will leave the car for a cool down before re-trying again...Since the clutch is all ready slipping there is some whp loss so the numbers are not accurate right now....Our last run with pre-cat deletes was 290whp/262tq...Now with the mod on the intake runners it ran 294whp/265tq....Lets see what happens on the next run after the cool down...I have all ready ordered a new clutch. Honestly I believe that we will not reach my goal of 300whp...Then again, its another warm day in Central Florida with 83F...I am still optimistic with numbers...I have about a week left here before heading home for break...My then the clutch will be installed and we can go to the race track....I really believe that with the new clutch and a nice 65F weather...breaks the 300whp line...Even still numbers are very good from whp to tq...
11-23-2010, 01:45 PM
#140
Team Owner
I don't think the numbers will go up much with a new clutch. If it was slipping even a little, those numbers would take a nose dive. Still very good for a NA TL. 4hp and 3lbs from the runners is pretty good considering they work as a system and you only did a small part of the system.
11-23-2010, 02:12 PM
#141
takin care of Business in
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Hey guys..The car was dynoed today with the intake runners ported and polished...The mechanic called me saying that...the clutch started to smell a bit, so it looks like it is time to change clutch...They will leave the car for a cool down before re-trying again...Since the clutch is all ready slipping there is some whp loss so the numbers are not accurate right now....Our last run with pre-cat deletes was 290whp/262tq...Now with the mod on the intake runners it ran 294whp/265tq....Lets see what happens on the next run after the cool down...I have all ready ordered a new clutch. Honestly I believe that we will not reach my goal of 300whp...Then again, its another warm day in Central Florida with 83F...I am still optimistic with numbers...I have about a week left here before heading home for break...My then the clutch will be installed and we can go to the race track....I really believe that with the new clutch and a nice 65F weather...breaks the 300whp line...Even still numbers are very good from whp to tq...
Also underdrive pulley/engine mounts will free up some HP....
11-23-2010, 02:13 PM
#142
takin care of Business in
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can you list all your mods ?
11-23-2010, 02:15 PM
#143
All motor
Nice numbers. I am thinking if I should do the ported runners as well. I already have the IM ported from P2R. The runners would probably compliment it nicely.
11-24-2010, 10:18 AM
#144
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yeah...the clutch i believe it will provide the small numbers of loss of power...I estimate another 3hp/tq....I do not have the intake manifold ported or polished only the runners....Another plus could be a drop in Temp that will help achieve additional ponies to break that 300whp line
The list of mods is:
INTAKE: AEM CAI/Ported and Polished Intake Runners/TB Spacer/Intake Manifold HeatShield Gasket/TB HeatShield Gaskets/
EXHAUST: RV6 Pre-Cat Deletes v2/ATLP J-Pipe/ATLP Race Pipe/XLR8 Resonated Quad Cat-Back
TRANSMISSION: Slave Mod Check Valve/ and next week ClutchMaster FX300 Kit
Tires for the track: BFGoodrich R1 245/40/17
The list of mods is:
INTAKE: AEM CAI/Ported and Polished Intake Runners/TB Spacer/Intake Manifold HeatShield Gasket/TB HeatShield Gaskets/
EXHAUST: RV6 Pre-Cat Deletes v2/ATLP J-Pipe/ATLP Race Pipe/XLR8 Resonated Quad Cat-Back
TRANSMISSION: Slave Mod Check Valve/ and next week ClutchMaster FX300 Kit
Tires for the track: BFGoodrich R1 245/40/17
11-24-2010, 10:55 PM
#145
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
What did the P&P on the runners set you back? I agree that it's silly to spend the money to actually buy replacement units that already have the work done. I'd rather find a local shop with a flow bench and just have my intake and runners done. A few days down time is not an issue. I'd like to get up to around 265-270 whp with this and V3 HFC's.
Last edited by anx1300c; 11-24-2010 at 10:58 PM.
11-29-2010, 11:13 AM
#146
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Yeah I have the ported and polished intake manifold and the runners....i did feel a difference when i threw them on....
i also installed the mdx spacer and rv6 PCD v2 just a day before and my car felt so much quicker after all this....ignored the warnings of dumping the mdx spacer when going Pnp-ed throughout and hence am losing a little low end hp/tq but after 3500 rpm, the car is a BEAST !!!
i would recommend you getting the pnp intake mani (since you have the runners already)....
i also installed the mdx spacer and rv6 PCD v2 just a day before and my car felt so much quicker after all this....ignored the warnings of dumping the mdx spacer when going Pnp-ed throughout and hence am losing a little low end hp/tq but after 3500 rpm, the car is a BEAST !!!
i would recommend you getting the pnp intake mani (since you have the runners already)....
11-30-2010, 01:08 PM
#147
Instructor
Thread Starter
Sorry guys..been very busy on this side of the world...Finally I am departing on break tomorrow...The tires have arrived and the clutch has arrived as well....Maybe by friday I will have some 1/4 mile times for all of you...The intake manifold will be ported and polished when I do the mod on the cam as well...So far I will run the way it is...294whp it ain't bad at all lets see it on the strip...and now with a better clutch...and temperatures expected to drop a little bit looking for those extra 6whp just to say that I made 300whp...
11-30-2010, 01:20 PM
#148
Burning Brakes
Good Luck and have a safe trip back !!
11-30-2010, 03:04 PM
#149
All motor
Good luck man!
Honestly I could care less about your ET. I'm in for trap numbers.
Honestly I could care less about your ET. I'm in for trap numbers.
12-29-2010, 03:35 PM
#150
All motor
Any updates on the 1/4 mile? Did you ever go?
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