Dave_B

Gotta pay to play. Drag radials aren't going to cut it if you want decent 60 foots. Been there and done that with FWD. It's either slicks or deal with poor 60 foots. Just because you have slicks doesn't mean you have to use all the available traction. Don't dump the clutch on launch and you shouldn't have much issue with the axles. The key is to release the clutch quickly as to not shock the drivetrain.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

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Another good reason to run slicks..... It's not as likely to wheel hop since you're probably not going to be able to spin them.

The only issue I would have is dumping the clutch might be easier on the stock clutch and kill axles while a little slip would be easier on axles and possibly kill the clutch.

But again, as you said you have to pay to play. Breaking stuff is a normal part of racing. You break something, you make it stronger and you find the next weak link.

Sonnick

Those were my numbers @NRG. 255/209. I never got dyno'd anywhere else. I'm anxious to go back with my 3in exhaust, but the conditions are much more favorable as well.

Mounts will also help with the launch. Can't launch on broken mounts

Inaccurate

Good point. Of the very few Acurazine members that have snapped axles, wheelhop was suspected to be the main reason.

Now there is a short summary of drag racing. This is why I am always pointing out the difference between daily drivers versus weekend warriors. Drag racing is all about how close you can come to breaking something. If the car ran a single pass without coming close to breaking something, then you are leaving performance on the table and not going as quick as you could had.

But a DD must live by other rules....... like getting you to work on Monday morning.

BostonSilverTypeS

^InAccurate when are we going to see you run some track times with that skinny TL...I would love to see what it would run down the 1320 with all that fat off!!

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Or you get a redneck like myself that drives a 600rwhp car to and from work for a 210 mile round trip everyday lol.

My thoughts on racing are different than a lot of people's. I don't enjoy running a pure race car at the track anywhere near as much as running a true street car at the track and taking down many pure race cars. In fact, unless I'm getting paid I find no joy in running a race car at all.

What kept me interested and spending the money was all of the controversy, trash talk, and disbelief that a quick street car stirs up. I ran a few races on the street where I pulled up in a relatively quiet streetable car and helped the other guys unload their "street car" off the trailer so we could race and then drive my car home when it's over while everyone else was still stunned.

Would I do it now, at my age.... Probably not. But up to my late 20s I was all about racing the DD even without a backup car. I spent too many all nighters on a Sunday trying to repair the car for work on Monday. I just don't have the energy anymore.

Inaccurate

Agree with all that you said.

DD sleepers are much more fun for me too.

Working on the car is fun when you are in the mood to mess with it. It is No fun at all when you must work on the DD car to get it in service again asap. I always think long and hard before making a mod to my car as to if it will affect reliability and force me to work on it when I am not in the mood.

JuamPs 69

Well any other little tricks or parts for my car? I do not have the pulley...I have a CAI, Intake Manifold heatshield, TB Spacer, TB heatshield gaskets, PCD, J-pipe, Race Pipe and XlR8 cat-back...
Maybe I can do a final buy of anything...If anything else is out there for the 08 Type S MT. AEM FIC is out of the question...Tires? Well I am still in debate...any other things to squeeze more hp before heading to the track? 19 Days left for me to leave this place for a short break...Thanks fellas

I hate cars

I think you made the perfect desicion for a DD. If anything yours should be more reliable and require less maintenence than a stock TL. Weight was the one thing I didn't value as much as I should have when I was young. Now it's almost exactly 3,000lbs but I drove around at 3,400lbs for many years.

I hate cars

Honestly, I would go with the slicks. You probably won't break anything and trying to get that last 5-10hp won't even show up. The tires can easily reduce 1/4 times as much as an additional 100hp will.

Start out easy. Launch like you normally do on street tires and work your way up from there. This is assuming you can get at least 4-5 runs. If this is a track where you will only get 2 runs, you may do a couple practice launches on the street to get used to the new traction before taking it to the track. The track will have a ton more traction than the street when you're on slicks. You will probably be able to dump the clutch from the rev-limiter without much wheelspin should you choose to do so. It's going to come down to how hard you choose to abuse the car.

JuamPs 69

Hahahaha i know hey check it out...What do you guys think about re-grinding the cam?....Does anyone have good reviews about this kind of work from Bisimoto?...What about valvesprings and retainers?
http://www.bisimoto.com/sport-compac...vtec-camshafts

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Their cams are too aggressive for the street. I would not use them without extensive head porting and a higher redline. Springs and retainers won't make more power, they are just to survive the higher ramp speeds of the big cams. Hondas are pretty aggressively cammed already.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

$722 for something that is very questionable. ill pass

check this out

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/tl-cams-797794/

I hate cars

Just checked the site out. I've never seen the first two offered before. The first one might work ok. The only thing I don't like is how they sell the same cam for the J30-J35. Maybe I overlooked it.

Off topic but I don't know why the turbo cam uses less exhaust duration and more intake duration. Usually it's the opposite.

JuamPs 69

I am well aware of the needs for retainers and springs..Im not looking for power from those...The power will be provided from the cam...Yeah level 1 sounds more conservative god question regarding if its all for the three J series engines...And If I go this way a full head work would be on...Porting, polishing etc...Still too many questions in all your opinions?

JuamPs 69

Has anyone done this yet?

Inaccurate

QUESTION -

ANSWER -
Drag racing is ALL ABOUT the launch. I agree about getting the stickiest tires possible. No reason trying to make more power if you will be just spinning off the starting line. Without traction at the starting line, the ET will suck no matter how much power you make.

Look for sticky tires. Look for slicks / drag radials (this is the most sticky option), or road race tires, or sticky street tires (this is the least sticky option).

BostonSilverTypeS

Wow Bisimoto has finally tackled the V6 world....IMO I would wait for some trial and error from ppl that want to make that big move for some cams, but on a side note BISIMOTO is a well known guy in the 4cylinder world espicially with the D/F/H/B series motors...He has built some pretty crazy set-ups from SOHC D-series and F-series which he loves(some like 700whp numbers)

If Bisimoto has built these cams I wonder what he used to tune the NA TL motors....But it is definitely worth giving him a call and finding out more info for sure

If someone cracks this ECU and is able to tune a NA motor then these cams would be something I would def consider...The level 1 seems good, the others for a DD not so much.....

those cams with a proper NA tune with supertech valves would be something I wouldnt mind doing....If only we had engine management issue solved

but as of right now, I don't think it would be worth it unless you can tune it and also increase rev limiter to something like 8000-9000rpm.......hmmm one can dream and hope

I hate cars

I almost think the J32 would be a better candidate if stock bottom end is to be retained at higher rpms. I hate how Honda uses an undersquare design on the J35 and up.

BostonSilverTypeS

^ I agree as well on that, I believe that J32 would benefit the most for sure.....I would love to hame some time and call him and see what engine he used....I would bet it was a J30 or J32....and 5% chance that it was a J35....

I think it states all J-series for simple fact that thinking they are all the same which they are but at same time very different

He might be thinking that they are like the B-series VTEC engines for example in which whether it's 1.6l(B16a,b16b,b16a1 and so on) 1.7l B17 or 1.8l(B18c and so on) all cams are interchangeable and when you order aftermarket cams they all fit each other with no issues....but like I said glad he has tackled them and this is a good sign that interest in these motors are becoming more and more popular as these J-series engines find their way into civic/integra chassis

Sonnick

True but they don't use our ECU. They use the CL-s 6MT ECU which doesn't have the DBW.

I wonder why he doesn't have any dynos. How can you claim a 10% power increase with no before/after dynos? He does that on all his cams.

I know he's a reputable guy in the 4cyl Honda world, but I'd like to see a dyno at least. Or at least have him explain why he chose the lift/duration.

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I guess the part that makes me wonder is using one spec for an entire half liter of displacement change. If he offered the same one for a J30 and J32 or a J32 and J35 it wouldn't be as big of a deal. The same cam on a J30 won't be as streetable as it will on a J35. It will have a higher rpm range on the J30 and lower on the J35; better idle on the J35 vs J30. Maybe this is what he wanted since the J35 uses such a long stroke and likely can't be pushed to the same rpms as the shorter stroke engines.

I hate cars

I'm glad the guy is doing this, it's nice to have cams available. My only point was I doubt each cam is optimized for each displacement.

It would be nice to see the stock cam specs for each engine to get a baseline. He used a lot more intake duration than exhaust duration for the "turbo" cam. Usually they're split evenly and many times they have more exhaust duration.

This might be because they're vtec engines so he could get away with more intake duration since vtec is only on the intake side yet had to keep exhaust conservative. Or maybe the stock heads flow very well on the exhaust side already. Just thinking out loud.

JuamPs 69

CEL fixed...Regarding the cam upgrade if I do this...I think I would stick with level 1...I would just put the springs and retainers since I am all ready taking out the cam from the head...I am still at 50/50 or undecided wether to take this road or not...

JuamPs 69

I have just contacted Bisimoto...First impression is very nice...Sounds like a really good organization. Some tech questions answered were that...Level 1 does not require any kind of modification to the head regarding springs or retainers...The reason they came with the J-Series cam is due to increase demand...Most of it coming from Bahrain and Dubai...(Muslims with lots of money doing engine swaps to J series on their civics and integras). You can pretty much let them know what kind of modification you will like...From a daily driver, to a weekend warrior, to purely racing. Regarding dyno charts...they do not have official dyno charts from their products, they're claims on 10% and 15% come straight from clients claiming such gains.
The operator asked me to drop a line on their website regarding any other tech questions because today is veteran's day and they are short on staff. I specifically asked about the J-35 and she was of no help...But she was going to research who has done the updgrade with the 3.5L engine...
It would be great if all of you can start contacting this people through email via their website with all kinds of questions. As a result this increases the level of demand and we could be more clear whether or not buy their product. Once I contact these tech guys again...and if I get convinced...I will send my cam to them...I did forget to ask about tuning with this mod...so I will have to wait till tomorrow...

Sonnick

Nice! Let us know what you decide to do man.

IHC - Your PM box was full I tried PM'ing you the other day.

BostonSilverTypeS

Nice, Juam I'll def keep a close on you and see if you end up going this route. I'm interested in the level1 as well, but like I said with no tuning capabilities on a NA motor I def will wait till I get more info and research. This is my DD and cannot afford for it to be out of commision to long......Yea Bisi is a cool dude from ppl I know who have dealt with him.....Higher demand= more parts available for us which I'm sure I can speak for all and say we been dying to get these parts in our V6 market......

Most definitely keep us posted and...

btw Happy Veterans Day

Appreciate your service brofrom a veteran to another veteran soldier/marine

what unit you with anyway?

10th mountain FTW!! Hooah!!

JuamPs 69

Well thanks buddy...I am not military...I am a Pilot for the Department of State based out of Kabul. I've been here for 9 months. Although civilian, we are still doing military stuff to an extent. Thanks a lot bro...Civilian or Military, we are still here right?
I will be calling Bisimoto today for further research. I have contacted my tuner and mechanic and they want to do it. If I do this; I will go with a stand alone computer, and do a full head work too. (Retainers, Valve Springs, Port and Polish). By the way did CBR169 ran his 13.3 secs with nitrous?
The time is getting close to go home and test the car the way it is. If we do the other job mentioned above. The car should have no problem breaking 12.9 secs with NO NITROUS.

tenzingsherpa

^^ i say go for it . right now i have tl-s cams in my built 3.6 j engine and would love to see what kind of gains u get with these bisi cams compared to ur latest dyno.

JuamPs 69

Hey does anyone know about the ported runners for the 08 MT TL Type S? I see that they have it for the 08 accord...do they fit for the Type S?

If so...does anyone have installed it and reported gains?

http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-222320.aspx

I hate cars

Check out "Ethanol"'s thread on cams. He has the Bisi cams along with ported runners, exhaust, ported TB and ran 13.1@109mph. Basically all intake plus all exhaust mods and he's trapping as well or better than the FI cars.

JuamPs 69

Yeah I saw that...thats really impressive..I wonder what kind of tunning he did to the car...Is he a regular TL or the 3.5L?

JuamPs 69

Nevermind i see it is a 2004 base 6MT...Now im curious what kind of measurments he used for the porting of the TB and the intake manifold

Dave_B

You need to consider things before diving in to cams.

1) Cost benefit. I'd imagine cams for these cars are similiar to the VQ series. Expect to pay ~$1,200 for cams plus possibly springs.

2) Install. Yikes! I don't know about the J-series, but it takes about 12 hours to swap on 2 cams to the VQ35. I would imagine the install is about the same. The intake manifold, fuel rails, all accessories, timing chain cover, timing chain, cam chains, cam retainers, springs, crank pulley, etc all have to come off. It's typically $1,200+ for labor.

3) Gains. Cams will trade low and midrange power for increased topend power. You've got to be careful because if you neuter low and midrange power too much, your car will be slower in the 1/4 mile, even though it may be making a lot more power in the upper rpms. Average power under the curve is key to acceleration. An extra 15% in power from 6000-7500rpms might not help you if the motor is soft in the lower rpms and doesn't launch well.

Most VQs gain about 10 to 20whp from 5500-7300rpms when adding cams, but loose about the 15whp below 5500rpms. The car ends up being no quicker in the 1/4 mile and feels boggy around town. For road racing, the cams are benefical because the car stays in that powerband. Many G and Z guys also add deeper gearsets to get the motor into the powerband quicker. They also increase the rev limiters. I don't think you have the capability to do either and if you add cams, you'll need that increase rev limiter to take advantage of the better high rpm breathing.

Also, I'd be VERY weary of any company that makes HP claims but without 3rd party dynos.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

12 hours is crazy. i just did cam shafts on a MB s500. took maybe 4 hours

EL19

iTrader: (4)

No that was an NA run. His NOS run was 12.7 or something like that.

Dave_B

It took this guy a lot longer than 12 hours to do his Nismo cam install on his G35 because he kept getting ahead of himself and screwing up things. Even with the help of an Infiniti tech, they forgot a few important things. Anyway, this gives you an idea of what typically has to come off most any overhead cam V6 when doing a cam swap. It's not for the faint of heart.

http://g35driver.com/forums/intake-e...installed.html

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This is why mine would be done during the timing belt/valve adjustment. Very little additional labor involved. If I were 100% sure the reliability was the same as stock (hardening process) and it wouldn't touch the already anemic low end on the 5at I would go for it. It's possible the low end won't be affected since it's a vtec motor.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Damn, that's impressive. While it's not enough to hang with a new 5.0, it's enough to put up a good fight against a Camaro SS, and enough to edge out a Challenger SRT.