Wingman19

I took delivery of my new 2006 RBP TL a few weeks ago; I really like the car though there are things about the audio system interface that are a bit strange. One big surprise to me is the relatively poor sound quality of XM radio...this may not be an Acura issue at all, but rather over-compression of the audio and low bit rate transmission. My AM radio sounds at least as good as XM and the FM quality is clearly better. No commecials on XM (except on hockey games!)...that is awesome, but can't they send something at least a little better than the lowest bit rate tolerable to human ears (some stations sound like bad mp3 files)? They claim CD quality (16bit/44.1k) but that is simply not true. Any thoughts on this??

bmui1561

Hmm my XM sounds better than FM and much better than AM...but maybe my hearing's been going cause I listen too loud

I do agree about the overall audio system quality in the TL...to me the sound seems a bit muffled but does not bother me too much.

Wingman19

thanks for the reply. Actually, that is a good point...if you listen really loud it may actually sound better due to compression. I have not spent much time listening to XM until I bought the TL...my brother and I are both audio engineers and we did a quick listen yesterday (moderate levels) here in the Los Angeles area and we both came away with the same opinions...it's not really a matter of highs and lows so much as dynamic range (louder/softer) and clarity...no a big deal to a lot of people I guess. thanks again....

Andrew McCarthy

There are quite a few times when the same sports broadcast will be available on XM and either AM or FM and it always seems to have more of that "tin can" sound on XM. I always wondered if the music channels had a lower compression vs. the news/sports.

Adamo0926

Some XM stations sound better than others....of course that could be a result of the source recording. For example....Watercolors, the Jazz station sounds superb, but most Jazz CD's are recorded very very well. I listen to the 70's and 80's as well but the sound is only going to be as good as the original recordings. And please don't think I am some old fogey....I also listen to Fred, Ethel and The Boneyard....lol.

svtmike

I think the XM sounds like too. That's the reason that I don't listen to it, dropped my subscription, and won't subscribe again.

Mike

1995hoo

Anything that is all talk gets compressed more by XM than music channels. The traffic channels receive maximum compression, which makes sense when you consider that the average listener will listen through one, or two at most, reports and then change the channel.

The idea is that with limited bandwidth, the notable compression is less annoying on talk than on music. I think that's fair.

datmrman

I barely touched XM during the trial period because I found the quality not too great. Now that the trial is over, I just continue to listen to my own custom CDs/DVD-As.

mptlptr

XM sounds noticeably worse than FM in my TL. Is it a problem with the car's audio system or XM receiver or is XM just BSing about the "near CD quality". Anyone have another car with XM? Is the quality any better?

Adobeman

Yeah, XM is pretty poor sound quality for sure. But they use a business model like cable companies where more content at lower qualities is better (more marketable) than less content at higher qualities. Most people could care less about audio quality as long as they can hear lots of songs. If you don't believe that then just take 10 people at random from your coworkers, sit them in the car and put on XM. Say nothing more than "How does that sound?" and just about all of them will say yes. And then they will want to see all of the channels you have.

Like anything else it comes down to the price. Getting XM for about $70/year makes it a fun novelty. Anything near their full price is ridiculous.

dbett

I'm not sure when their contract with Clear Channel is up, but when it is they will be able to drop 6 (?) pretty high bandwidth stations. That should help with the compression problems.

netinfiniti

I am not surprised that you find XM sound quality awful, I beleive the maximun bit-rate used is 64 kbps and that too not on all channels. It seems a bit of shame to waste the TL's audio prowess on lo-bandwidth XM. The lack of commercials is attractive though.

suppafreak

I was also surprised at how bad the sound quality is. Regular FM stations sound much better than XM station. I am disappointed, but my wife drives the car more often then I am. When I am in the car I connect the iPod thru the cassette player and the sound is awesome. If my wife decides to keep the XM, I'll renew it for $77.

Status45

I've noticed too that when I listen to XM radio I have to turn up the volume pretty damn high, then if i switch to FM i get blown away!! The best quality is always cd's or DVD's. But they are cumbersom and messy to store. Strangely enough the sound system in my 2003 TL Type S seemed much more beefy.

LuvMyTSX

I think the quality is crappy, too, but I wish I'd had a chance to listen to it before I bought it. I purchased a SkyFi2 XM radio for my '04 TSX ('04 didn't come with XM). I was really disappointed with the quality when I heard it. When my 1 year subscription runs out, I'll have to think hard about renewing it. I just don't know if it's worth it to me.

dbett

Folks who cancel should really complain to XM and tell them why you are cancelling. Until they realize that cramming in more stations hurts them, they will continue to play the "we have more stations" game.

stever627

i've heard 2 commercials recently on xm21. One for a Chrysler Crossfire and one for hersheys.com and they even showed up on the display...

maybe i should search, but can someone explain that to me????

dbett

Those are the Clear Channel stations. XM has a contract with CC which (as decided in a recent arbitration) requires XM to play commercials on those stations.

In response to that, XM has created commercial-free alternatives to all of the CC channels. Those play the same type of music as each CC channel.

But obviously, jamming in 6 or so more stations means everything has to be more highly compressed.

Once the CC contract expires, XM will almost certainly eliminate the CC channels - which should help the compression rates on all the other stations.

stever627

thanks! makes sense then. im surprised xm didn't cover their ass in the contract w/ clear channel? what about the contract with us that states something to the effect of "commercial free" music...i would imagine, although i never read it.

dbett

The recent ads now all say "The Most Commercial Free Music" instead of "100% Commercial Free Music."



I imagine if someone is under contract, they could call up and cancel for a refund based on the violation of the old "Commercial Free" ads. But, beyond that...

AcuraTenderLove

I was wondering what the "cm" suffix on the channel names was for...commercials!

Wingman19

Hey thanks for all of your feedback...I wouldn't want to diss XM quality if everyone thinks the quality is fine as is, but hey, we all have CDs and are used to at least that level of quality. If consumers accept less they can expect less.

XM could improve significantly by adding b/w but as Adam stated, the quality of the source material is key...yes the Jazz stations (Watercolors) usually broadcast well recorded music and the quality is OK (I noticed this too)...I am not sure how XM goes about formatting the songs that go out on XM but I can tell you from experience in pro audio (arenas, theaters and so on) that the range of pre-recorded autio runs from really good to reeeeaally bad...maybe that is part of it. There are good and bad mp3's as well. As for talk radio, low comp is OK with me BUT this streaming delay issue (listen to a hockey game tonight...Sabers vs Hurricanes for you NHL fans!)...notice how bad the streaming delay/echo is. Wow. Still...I love the game so I will listen anyway...not much hockey radio here in L.A.!

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

So wait, when XM radio was created back in the day, Clear Channel sued XM radio because XM was broadcasting music and talk radio without commercials? WTF?

XM radio is a PAID site, why the fawk would Clear Channel be allowed to interject and bring in commercials?!

dbett

Because XM had a contract with CC, under which CC provided the programming for thost channels. Ie, they are CC stations, simply broadcast on XM. And CC has the right under the contract (as found by an arbitrator) to include commercials.

Black_05_TL_6SP

You are 100% correct. Its not the TL, it is XM. I work for a retailer that sells them, and the all sound like that. I personally would much rather have a Sirius unit any day. I am waiting for a direct plug unit myself. I don't want to do a portable unit, as I think it looks tacky on the dash. The Sirius sound quality is much greater. I have both XM and Sirius installed in my truck, and at the same volume an same genre of music, you can hear a big difference between the 2. I listen to XM because I hate FM so much(commercials and talk). Now that they have commercials on certain XM channels (Clear Channel), it is starting to get aggravating, not to mention the repetition of the same music!!

So don't feel bad in you thoughts, as it can change from song to song on XM. One may be of good quality, then the next is

Black_05_TL_6SP

Its all about the money, XM is Hurting, so they signed with CC to help out. This gave them the ability to not have to worry about programming, extra money coming in and yet another backer to push XM.

DeMAN

My XM sounds a lot better in my other car with aftermarket equipment.
It does have a lot to do with the system in the TL.
XM works for me because of the long driving trip I take and the variety of programming I have to listen too.

vector1701

Maybe you just need to go with the Big Dog....

cgriffin33

I don't mean to hijack the thread I just find it so funny that a lot of people are complaining about quality of sound in the TL. It makes me laugh that Acura will allow low quality audio from XM and allow even a tape deck, but won't offer mp3 compatibility. Their excuse for not allowing mp3's is that the quality of a mp3 won't take advantage of their high end audio system. Then why the hell do you have a tape deck and XM? Not being mp3 compatible will always boggle my mind. Oh well, just burn 5 cd's on a dvd and call it a day.

Wingman19

Good points....We all have options with audio, it's actually a cool time since there are so many options. I currently work in very high end concert sound but have worked in consumer audio as well. Clearly there are different markets which add value to customers. I just think that paying for music should yield a certain level of quality since you are basically saying "I'll pay $XX amount for XM or Serius instead of buying CDs or DVDA discs, plus I can get more variety and live sports and other broadcast type value". For me, I would go with less channels and better quality but I am an audio guy. I really wish it sounded better. Now, I have 2 teenage kids with iPODs and they don't make the connection...they love it want me to renew. I will probably do the $77 deal if I can still get it. BTW I like the cassette even if I rarely use it, and it definely sounds better than XM. There is a thing called dynamic range (the dB range between louder/softer) which requires a certain a certain amount of data (analog or digital) to achieve great definition. Maybe Serius is better than XM but digital media has a clear advantage over analog in this area...now it's the business model which limits the format from getting to CD quality. I need to buy more DVDA discs...they really sound great but too much data to transmit...I would expect something between CD and XM as acceptable.

BTW related to this (sorry if off topic)
My gripes with the GUI on the NAVI audio system are as follows:

1. No CD/DVD text
2. No XM text
3. No way to shuttle (FFW or RW) on a CD or DVD
4. Text for radio and XM is cutoff...it should stop and scroll to complete text
5. No Disc Text at all (how could they do this...I have no idea what CD to select?
6. MP3 integration is bad...cmon Acura...wake up!!
If anyone has a hack to correct these GUI issues I would like to try it

wyzard

As for answer 3, they do have ffw and rw on CD and DVD. You use the same button you use to skip to the next or previous song. Just hold it down. (the seek button)

Stevie B

how many people have gotten a mailer in the last few days with the $77 offer, good for a coupe of weeks

Wingman19

OK...the seek button. Duh! It works; thanks. Funny, they do all of this stuff to keep you from looking at the GUI while driving...good luck finding those buttons on the freeway!

Wingman19

I did not get it yet. The one I received is $142/year.

HiG4s

After reading this thread I have a couple of comments, and a question..

I listen to lots of different music, but I listen to mostly classical on XM and usually at low volumns and it is very good.. many other channels do not sound near as good. But the best quality sound I get from my TL is when playing good quality jazz CDs, not that my rock CDs sound bad, just not as good. I wonder if perhaps the overall system setup on the TL is more tuned for Jazz and classical then for rock or more dynamic music.

I also understand the XM classical channels are broadcast in Surround, so maybe that is why they sound better? Anyone know?

Modeler

Really, what a huge difference a couple of years make! I was one of only a couple of people on this board complaining about the bad XM sound quality and bargain-basement songs selection back then. And there were several loud-mouths that were flaming me for that, saying how fantastic XM was and how much better than FM.

I still believe that the XM sound quality is quite crappy, and that their selection of songs is driven by the amount of royalties they have to pay, instead of the songs' popularity/quality. I am, however, still an XM subscriber and never listen to FM anymore. This is entirely due to the convenience of XM and poor selection and poor reception for the local FM stations. But I sometimes have to turn the XM off after going through my 10 favorite stations and not finding a single good song...

millerrh

I also thought the XM quality was really bad and didn't subscribe after my 3 month trial was out. During that time, I hardly listened to it, the song selection and sound quality were so bad. I got better of both through my local radio stations.

Since then, I have subscribed to Sirius. I find the sound quality *almost* as good as FM, but you can still hear the compression, especially in high frequency sounds. Although, some of that may be due to the fact I'm using a portable radio. I've never heard Sirius in a factory system. I prefer the programming on Sirius as well, it's all I ever listen to anymore.

Wingman19

The XM folks should be reading all of these posts if they intend to learn and understand what many of their customers think about their product. Maybe the market (Acura owners) is relatively small, but Acura should care and so should XM even if it is just an add on...Acura is a premium product, Michelin tire are a premium product, XM...c'mon show us some love!